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Sunday, May 19, 2024 |
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Charter Changes What's Your Opinion |
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spiderjohn 
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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 Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 1:21pm |
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OK--we have a pattern of municipal employees being promoted just before their retirement.
If has always gone on, though it seems to be an approved popular procedure in the city building over the last few years. Since retirement income is based on going-out highest wage, this activity costs the city(the taxpayer) dearly, and these employees' retirement income level can be based on a salary/position that they only held very briefly(qualified or not). Too expensive in this day and time.
Mr.Becker moved from police chief to city manager(though un-qualified) and "retired" shortly after. When he left his police chief position, he was replaced by Major Bruck, who only held the position for a year before retiring. Now Major Schwarber has been promoted, and openly plans to retire within the next two or three years.
We DON'T have to continue this process bleeding the municipal coffures for the next 30-40 years. Whether we hire from within the system/city or outside, we absolutely DO NOT have to hire anyone remotely close to retirement.
Maybe the city should examine this logic towards hiring and promotions for all positions in the future. Simply choose someone who has time to grow and continue in the position, actually spending the prime of their employment performing to their most mature and knowledgeable capabilities.
jmo
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Marianne
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Jul 13 2008 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 12:45pm |
Gosh, you guys are good here. Can't get anything past you. But I don't know how/why you'd venture a guess regarding my employer because I asked you to explain your rationale for a statement you made. Can only people who are Public/State/Government/Union employees ask for reasoned arguments? If so, then I suppose I must be. |
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Marianne
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jul 13 2008 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 12:41pm |
Pacman, you still haven't answered my question, but that's ok; there's no requirement on this board to support claims made, so forgive me for being interested in your rationale for how opening up the search for fire and police chiefs would eliminate a chief coming in from the outside and staying for 2-3 years. As I said before, I'm not sure it's a bad thing for a police or fire chief to serve for only 2-3 years just as I'm not sure it's a good thing for a police or fire chief to serve for 10. |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 10:32am |
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Marianne you must be a Public/State/Government/Union Employee? |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 10:31am |
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OK Marianne let me rephrase for you once again the LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY OUTSIDE OF MIDDLETOWNS OWN LITTLE WORLD.
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VietVet
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 10:24am |
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If we, the commoners, ever get a candidate that the "movers and shakers" don't like, we need to make a special effort to see that they are retained in the seat. If the movers are upset, you know we have made the right choice. We're seeing a small indication of that with the school board and Sauter's E-mail right now. Brings a
 to my face when their little power world starts to crumble. (That's right, Spider, right or wrong, it will always be them against us to me.) I see no redeeming qualities in these people as it relates to the health of Middletown.
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Marianne
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jul 13 2008 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 10:21am |
Puts the job out to the public? So, I could apply to be police chief or fire chief? Cool! In all seriousness, I do wonder if the charter review committee's "recommendations" mean that - as VietVet suggests - someone outside law enforcement or fire safety could apply for the position. To respond to your post, Pacman, I don't see how hiring outside of the fire or police departments in Middletown eliminates a chief retiring after 2-3 years. Also, I don't know that a police or fire chief retiring after 2-3 years is necessarily a bad thing just as I don't know that a police or fire chief being around for 10 yeras is necessarily a good thing. |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 10:03am |
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Let me rephrase if the City puts the Job out to the Public as it should to hire the best candidate we should be able to attract candidates that will be of a high caliber and also hopefully not looking to just retire in a year ir 2. If the City continues on as it has for the last 5 years their are about 3-4 current employees that will be promoted for a 2-3 year stint and then retire.
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Marianne
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jul 13 2008 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 9:30am |
How? |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 7:51am |
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3) There is always a way around things Vet. If you get a Super Star, snicker, snicker, you elect him to (2) 4 year terms as Council and then (2) 4 year terms as Mayor or Vice Versa. If you can get it done. But I guarantee you if the average citizens loves a candidate, the movers and shakers won't. 4) Vet I personally want a City Manager that has some skin in the Game. Not one that looks at the Camera and says, "Middletown has a Bright Future" then goes home to West Chester or Monroe.
5) The way I read this is that you can hire someone from any Police or Fire Dept. anywhere. Hopefully you would get a 45-50 year old that was going to hang around and make a difference for at least 10 years, instead of heading for the Rocking chair in 2-3 years.
8) You need a certain number of Boards, what I don't care for is the sudden creation of umpteen committees to do redundant work. Like the Housing Committee who reports to the Housing Board, who reports to Council and the Council and Housing Board are one in the same. Or the Road Committee, the Finance Committee, this committee, etc., etc.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 6:54am |
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Pac- you requested feedback- here goes--
1. Agree 2 Agree 3. What happens when we finally get someone on Council that thinks correctly and is producing positive results and they must leave after 8 years? Even with the best candidates and to the degree this town is screwed up, it will take more than 8 years to fix this mess. 4. Is there any proof that living in the city makes for a better city manager? Don't know. Does it really matter whether Gilleland lives here or not considering her job performance? Is a city manager more effective living in the town they manage? 5. The way I read this is that the police or fire chief can be selected from non police or fire personnel. They don't have to come from a police/fire background to run these two departments. Is that correct? If so, should we select a person who has no idea/background on how a police/fire department runs?- One who is purely administrative? Just asking. 6. NO-NO and NO- need to know what these clowns are doing. Once a month would only encourage their secrecy. If anything, we need more frequent info on these untrustworthy people. 7. Internal city matter although wouldn't hurt for Council to know. Just FYI- Although- how do we control and police the internal hiring practices of city management as to the nepotism/good old boy club hiring? 8. Council creating boards and commissions as needed? Don't we have this now? Method of appointment is too controlling. They will appoint their buddies only and leave the common folk off. 9. Eliminate placing a title on proposed legislation in the paper? OK- Sure- whatever. Still doesn't change the content of the information about the legislation. 10. The public has a right to know about city worker(officer) recalls and the rebuttal of the worker(officer) being recalled. Public needs to hear both sides of recall story. 11. Who cares? Is this the best they could come up with? With all the time, discussions, "friendly" disagreements between Nenni, Slagle and others, THIS is all there is? Where's the serious stuff? This is surface fluff. |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 5:58am |
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It would be nice if Mr. Nagy would give us a little heads up on the reasoning behind some of these requested changes. The comments in Red are just my own opinion and nothing more. What say you Middletown residents?
1) Reducing the size of City Council from 7 to 5 members.
To me this just lends itself to making it easier to manipulate council, by the City's Movers and Shakers. Remember the "Moving Middletown Forward" group, and their agenda, which was control of council.
2) Eliminating the ward system all council member and mayor elected at large.
Once again allows the Movers and Shakers to get elected whomever they want to throw there money behind and could result in sections of the the City being unrepresented on Council, again Council Manipulation.
3) Establishing term limits for council and the mayor, of not more than 2 Four year Terms for each.
Good Change.
4) Recommended repealing residency rules for the city manager. This item was modified as a result of last week’s Ohio Supreme Court ruling that repealed residency requirements for municipal employees. However, the council could include a residency requirement as part of a contract with a future city manager, according to Landen.
I would make it a contractual requirement that the City Manager must live in the City.
5) Permitting the city’s police and fire chiefs to be selected from outside the divisions of police and fire.
Good Change. This would probably stop the promote to Chief and retire we have seen in the Police Dept. 3 Chiefs in the last 5 years is to many. Of course Becker took the City Managers job, but still.
6) Reducing the number of council meetings from two to one per month.
This would most likely result in more out of Public communication and meetings between Council members and limit Citizens access to Council Members. We need more openness in government not less.
7) Removing the advice and consent of council when city employees are appointed or removed. Non issue from my standpoint.
8) Repealing sections of the charter that address the Park, Health, Library Trustees boards and the Civil Service Commission and authorizing council to create boards and commissions as needed, as well as set the size, term of office and method of appointment for those boards.
Not sure I understand the thinking behind this one. Does this eliminate these Boards? Is this a way of having less Citizen input if it does?
9) Eliminating the requirement of having the title of proposed legislation published as a legal notice in a newspaper of general circulation in the city. Don't understand the reasoning for this one.
10) Increasing the length of a rebuttal statement of a city officer being recalled as well as making it available to voters.
Non issue.
11) Making the charter language gender neutral. Non Issue. He, She, It, nothing but PC move. |
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