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Charter Changes What's Your Opinion

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    Posted: Jun 24 2009 at 7:36am
As to the size of council, I favor a reduction to 5 if we can keep our wards. My orginal thinking had to do with reducing the influence of the at-large candidates. I think council will throw out both changes because of it's affect on them in the comming election. If they go ahead with both, I think the public will reject a all at-large and most possibly accept a reduction to 5.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2009 at 10:00am
The review of the recommended Charter issues to council by my colleague Robert Hoffman was excellent. He was right on the depth of discussion that the minutes do not and cannot reflect. I commend him for such a good review. Council will review the recommendations with the Charter Commission on July the 7th. After that I will attempt a detailed review with an attempt to place it all in context as to where our city is now and where it is going. We all have different views on the context of certain issues that were presented and those that were not presented as recommendations. My thanks and appreciation again to Robert Hoffman for a great review he has given to the city.
        Paul Nagy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2009 at 8:37am
I still fail to understand why anyone would object to opening the top cop or Fire Chief job to seek out the best possible candidate, even if that candidate ends up coming from the inside.  There are 100's of job listings for Chiefs on the Net across the country they can't all be doing it wrong.
 

15 apply for Medina police chief's job

Posted by Sue Bielawski June 17, 2009 08:00AM

Categories: News

MEDINA Fifteen people have applied for the police chief's job.

Dennis Hanwell resigned as chief last month to run for mayor in the November general election. Lt. Robert Starcher was appointed by Mayor Jane Leaver to be interim chief on June 3.

Starcher and Lt. Greg Mason have applied to fill the position. As safety director, Leaver also can invite two additional candidates to take the qualifying exam. Thirteen applicants have sent her their resumes fill those slots.

City Council approved a contract with ISSG Consulting of Akron for a cost of $9,800 to assess the final four candidates. Although patrolmen candidates pay $40 to take a qualifying exam, candidates for the top job do not have to pay for their testing.

According to Lureen Wilson, Civil Service secretary, the tests must be administered within 60 days of the vacancy. Leaver then has 30 days to decide whom she will appoint.

The pay depends on qualifications. Including a 10 percent pension payment, the salary starts at $38.07 per hour and raises in six steps to top out at $48.60 per hour, plus benefits. Chiefs do not receive overtime, but they do get a uniform allowance, vacation and holiday pay and medical benefits. The chief does not get the use of a free car.

For information on Starcher and Mason, go to medinaoh.org and then the police department's link to lieutenants.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2009 at 8:25am
Marianne doesn't this proposed change to the Charter make every Position in the City basically dependent on the City Manager if it is passed:
 
"Removing the advice and consent of council when city employees are appointed or removed."
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2009 at 8:09am
Originally posted by Hermes Hermes wrote:

"Grooming our own" is part of the problem. 98% of the time the child acts just like the parent. Hiring from the outside doesn't mean hiring unqualified applicants. It means putting someone in there with fresh eyes,it means having someone with no ties to council members or others of the department. "Good ole boys club" is exactly what it is. You scratch my back etc,etc,etc. I'm not sure about the conspiracy part but I have no doubts about plenty of corruption. The problem being no one wants a change,except the people on the outside. Council has a way of sprinkling a little sugar on everything and calling it sweet.


Hiring from the outside means you're hiring someone about whom you don't have the same sense of professional history as you have for someone who has been in the department for 25+ years. 

I think it's a mistake to assume someone who has been in the City of Middletown won't have "fresh eyes."  I don't think any of the current command staff would serve in the same way as Chief - to continue with your metaphor, which I don't necessarily agree with but with entertain - parents don't produce identical children (unless you're talking about multiple births); my sister and I were raised by the same parents in the same household, and we are very different people with very different ideas, and I'm sure that's the case for many parents/children, so I don't think your metaphor is a good one. 

I know that the police department invests in training their officers by sending them to seminars, etc. throughout the country.  The point of doing this, it seems to me, is for those officers to bring back those "fresh eyes" through their learning experiences.

You mention an outside person not having "ties" to City Council.  Well, an external candidate will owe his or her position entirely to the City Manager and will not have worked his or her way through the department.  If that's not having "ties" to someone (and essentially working at the pleasure of someone), then I don't know what is.  With an external candidate, I think you run a greater risk of having a Chief of police and/or fire, who is very much beholden to the City Manager. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 7:53pm
Well, if we only get "outsiders" like "out-of-city manager" Huseman and present City Manager Judy "I'm all for open government" Gilleland, we apparently only choose "outsiders" that will go along with the "IN" crowd! 
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 3:48pm

Permitting outside hiring of Police and Fire Chief

I voted no for this amendment. We’re not the Wild West, yet! Why wouldn’t we groom our own? All cities are unique and raising these men and women within our community allows them a better understanding of both citizens and criminals. I lost the vote but that my friend is true democracy at work. You don’t always get what you wish for and in this case I didn’t. Conspiracy, corruption? Why not move somewhere that these tricks of the trade could actually do you some good. Good old boys club? Possibly.

 

"Grooming our own" is part of the problem. 98% of the time the child acts just like the parent. Hiring from the outside doesn't mean hiring unqualified applicants. It means putting someone in there with fresh eyes,it means having someone with no ties to council members or others of the department. "Good ole boys club" is exactly what it is. You scratch my back etc,etc,etc. I'm not sure about the conspiracy part but I have no doubts about plenty of corruption. The problem being no one wants a change,except the people on the outside. Council has a way of sprinkling a little sugar on everything and calling it sweet.
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhoffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 2:57pm
There's not too much that you're saying that I disagree with. The meeting agenda, set by City Manager and staff, was spread out to accomodate the requirement. Lets speed things up a bit. They can have as many meetings as they need. You'll also have the opportunity to vote on the issue if it passes Council recommendation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhoffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 2:53pm
Nor should there have been. It is a Charter Committee not a court of law.
 
Can you imagine how many disgruntled citizens call the Ohio Attorney General and ask for political investigations? Gather your proof and approach the media if all else fails. The proper authorities will find you if you've got a case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 2:48pm
Mr. Hoffman:  You also mention that "They honestly don’t need two meetings a month."
It took them THREE YEARS to decide to retain the same Section 8 administrator since "there is no compelling reason to change."  It often takes them MONTHS to make the smallest decision.  One would think it would take twice as long with only one meeting per month.
 
Granted, they waste a lot of time with their silly stories and talk of "how busy" they are out "politikin", but they will have to do even more of that in one meeting per month.
 
Besides, if they truly only need one meeting per month, why not spend some time at the second meeting actually having TWO-WAY communications with the lowly citizens??  Since they don't "need" two meetings per month, they should be able to be be "set up for that", shouldn't they???
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by rhoffman rhoffman wrote:

 

One Council Meeting required

All Councilmen are bound by Sunshine Laws regarding private meetings. If private closed door meetings were the case and any of you have the proof, please present it to the proper authorities and do us all a favor. Les Landen said he WILL prosecute. The actual issue itself was one of practicality. They honestly don’t need two meetings a month. They can choose to have as many public meetings as they want but are now only required to have one.

Present it to"the proper authorities"???  And just who might that be???  I've spoken with everyone up to and including the Ohio Attorney General's office.  The ONLY "proper authority" I can find is to file suit myself, and the costs of that are prohibitive for the average citizen.
 
Landen KNOWS about some of these meetings for a fact, since he, himself, has been there meeting with "a majority of the legislative authority" at a "prearranged discussion of public business" when I, myself, have pointed it out!!  (By the way, there was no mention of that fact in any minutes of that meeting.)
 
So, with all due respect Mr. Hoffman, I ask again: Just who is "the proper authority"???
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhoffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 1:55pm
I sincerely apologize. Sarcastic yes, meant to insult or offend, no. You don't owe me an explanation regarding your comments and I've yet to ask for one. I'm simply stating that if you have info or proof provide it to the proper authorities. My intentions here today were simply to inform. I feel that I've done that. Thanks for the kind comps about my career and my garden.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 1:29pm

hey rh--glad to see that you are listening lol

continue to promote yer music biz here, and good luck with yer garden.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhoffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 11:47am
I've never served on Boards and Commissions. I'm not a politician. I've worked just fine on my own.
 
Better understanding of our local elective process?
Are you joking? Honestly? I've lived here for more than thirty years. You don't need to be a brain surgeon kind sir. Is it that you believe that you are enlightening us? That we're all, with the exception of you, too stupid to understand the process?
 
As for the Sunshine Law comment, once again I say provide proof and quit standing in the shadows casting stones. Step out into the light and solve the dilemma once and for all. The community will thank you for it.
 
Community involvement?
Over the last twelve years my company, Alpha Dawg Records, has organized and or participated in events that have raised more than half a million dollars for locally-based charity including the Hope House, Louella Thompson's Dream Factory, Disabled American Veterans, Children's Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, United Way, the American Cancer Society, the Make-A-Wish Foundation and on and on. I helped organize the Main St. Art & Music Festival, helped Miami University Middletown relaunch their mothballed radio program, donated websites for Big Brothers and Big Sisters, John XXIII School, gave presentations to council, the Downtown Alliance and others. I've done all of this for free and still maintained enough time to mentor young singers and songwriters through our AIM Program. This year alphadawgrecords.com will reach more than one million people in fifty different countries throughout the world with music that our citizens have created and I still have time to work in my garden.
 
I'm not sure that I could be any more involved with my community than I already am.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 11:08am
thanx for the breakdown and quasi cool banter Mr.Hoffman.
and thanx for your involvement.
maybe when MMF can control all five elected positions in the future(by funding five like-minded candidates 20x those running on their own), you will have a better understanding of our locall elective process.
 
the same names have produced the same predictable results that have put us where we are today.
sunshine violations are regular here, as you should know.
Mr.Landen works for the city manager and Council, so you know how he will view the situation
 
maybe next time, all new names will be involved on the charter review committee, as it should be.
maybe term limits for board and committee members also?
 
thanx again for yer sincere efforts, and hopefully you will increase your community involvement by serving on various municipal boards in the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 10:55am
rhoffman- Comment for the section labeled "One Council Meeting Required"- Proof on private closed door meetings- Comments and observations made on this site have eluded to the fact that, while not "closed door meetings", there have been 3 or 4 Councilpersons involved in discussion while participating on committees, which are manned by "club" personnel and city workers and Councilpersons gathered at local restaurants (Barbeque Junction/Frischs) in apparent discussion. While not certain viable evidence of any Sunshine Law violation, certainly "taking it to the limit" on impropriety and trust with the public. These are OUT IN THE PUBLIC type meetings but certainly not PUBLIC MEETINGS. There's a 99 and 44 one-hundreds % chance that city business in some form was discussed during this time. No proof, but it really looks "shady" and contributes to a lack of trust on the public's part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhoffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2009 at 10:30am

I have visited your site on rare occasion and find it very entertaining.  I won’t hide behind quasi cool monikers and semi anonymous banter. I served as one of the members of this year’s Charter Committee. While I do not speak for the group or any other individual from the committee I can however speak for myself. I was at every meeting and heard every debate regarding the Charter and the recommendations put forth to the Council. Here are a few opinions and explanations.

Reducing the size of council

Is it true representation of a four ward system with a seven member council? A logical explanation is no. True representation would be one Councilman from each ward and an at large Mayor. There was a great deal of interesting discussion regarding the subject and sorry to say that it wasn’t any of your aforementioned culprits, just good old fashioned and passionate debate. There were a variety of informed reasons to consider the amendment least of which was saving the taxpayers $10,000, but a consideration none the less.

 

Eliminating the ward system

ATTENTION, ATTENTION. It is time to begin circling the wagons!!!! Is it about wards or is it about representation? The 2010 census is going to show that we have more than likely lost a double digit percentage of residents. We have more than one thousand empty homes in the city and an additional thousand in the process of liquidation and not currently listed. More than 50% of our housing stock was built more than 60 years ago. I did the statistical research. It’s not a time to think of ourselves as wards but a time to begin thinking of ourselves as citizens of the same small town. There are brilliant minds from throughout our city. Lets pick our best five and call’m the A-Team. We’re going to need them in the desperate times that are rapidly approaching. It honestly shouldn’t make a difference where you live. Not to mention the fact that there may even be the possibility that we can achieve better representation in Columbus. VOTE!

 

Term Limits

Knock it out of the park in two terms and then step up the ladder to allow room for new ideas and fresh visionaries. 

 

Residency requirement

We actually voted for Residency/Domicile within 12 months of accepting the job. Last week’s Supreme Court ruling changed all of that.  I would like to think that our City Manager, employees, Chief of Police and Fire all lived within, and invested in, our community. I was surprised to find that it is not the case. The law says that it doesn’t have to be. Why clutter the Charter with language that is obsolete? Council can reconvene a Charter at any time to reconsider the amendment if it is repealed or can simply convene to act on the legislation itself.

 

Permitting outside hiring of Police and Fire Chief

I voted no for this amendment. We’re not the Wild West, yet! Why wouldn’t we groom our own? All cities are unique and raising these men and women within our community allows them a better understanding of both citizens and criminals. I lost the vote but that my friend is true democracy at work. You don’t always get what you wish for and in this case I didn’t. Conspiracy, corruption? Why not move somewhere that these tricks of the trade could actually do you some good. Good old boys club? Possibly.

 

One Council Meeting required

All Councilmen are bound by Sunshine Laws regarding private meetings. If private closed door meetings were the case and any of you have the proof, please present it to the proper authorities and do us all a favor. Les Landen said he WILL prosecute. The actual issue itself was one of practicality. They honestly don’t need two meetings a month. They can choose to have as many public meetings as they want but are now only required to have one.

 

Advice and consent of City Council

Is the CEO of Middletown, the corporation, the City Manager or not? We are a City Manager-based form of government. Council can then hold that person responsible for their actions. The City Manager deserves the ultimate say.

 

Repeal Charter Board Designation

All boards exist, will exist, and will continue to be designated by Council. The Committee felt that it was old and irrelevant language. Clean it up and move it out.
 
Eliminating newspaper requirement

The fact of the matter is that there are a variety of mediums to consider nowadays. The majority didn’t believe that the paper reached as many people as the water bill, email, online publication and tangible copies available at both the City Building and the Public Library. An ultimate savings of $14,000 for the taxpayer as well.

 

Please consider the following;

 

1.] We didn’t agree on everything. It is a mere impossibility when you have that much knowledge and experience in one room.

2.] There was insightful and enlightening debate on a myriad of issues.

3.] I voted my conscience as well as provided an informed opinion about issues and I was appointed to do so.

4.] All of the issues that we have recommended are to go to the voters on a ballot for all of you to vote on.

5.] Council has the final say and most of these recommendations will never see the light of day. It’s pretty much guaranteed in my opinion.

 

Mass conspiracy? Hysteria? I think not! I’m honored to have been asked to serve with this passionate group of fellow citizens.

 

It is indeed time for a change. Maybe these recommendations will trigger a sea change mentality about the way that things have been done in the past. We are living in a new era of accountability on a socio and economic scale that is sure to set a proverbial benchmark in history. Bureaucracy is dead in an environment where there is no money. The war is over and greed won! Now it’s time to begin cleaning up this mess and the task could be a lot easier with the help of a few friends and neighbors.

 

By the people, for the people and of the people.

 

Sincerely,

Robert Hoffman

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashkicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 9:02pm
SJ,
 
I didn't say it was bad example, it was an example of what is bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 5:28pm
Ashkicker--I wouldn't call using the police chief history a bad example at all.
As far as my point, I think that is accentuates exactly the trend within city admin.
Mr.Sauter was around for a long time as chief, and hopefully Mr.Botts will be here a while also.
 
No union-bashing here, because it goes on everywhere within the system.
I honestly can't blame the workers for taking advantage of a program laid out for them.
I blame the structure that makes this possible.
And as at AK--you can't promise workers something for 30-40 year, then pull the rug out from under them after they have fulfilled their end of the agreement.
 
We now have the "upside-down pyramid" in regard to municipal retirements(and in "big labor" corporations), while the pensions and tax base can no longer support this(and it will get far worse).
Do the math--tell me how this will play out down the road.
It ain't looking good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AKBobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 4:05pm
Knowing a few police officers and many firemen in town I can maybe chime in. I also have a first cousin that is a Sergeant here. Take if for what it's worth.
 
The supervisors at Middletown go through the FBI Academy or the police managment center in Kentucky once they make lieutenant. Those two schools are the best in the nation. So I know the supervisors are trained very well. I am pretty sure he said that the upper management handle budgets and all that too and one is in charge of all the training. The fire department sends their guys to top schools too to train them.  John Sauter was a great cheif and an even better school board member Thumbs%20Up  I guess my question would be wouldnt an outside chief fall to the whim of everything council wanted to do, good or bad? We had an outside superintendent at the schools and look what a failure he was. Seems that we have good people here that know the city, know the problems and know the ins and outs. Not everyone at the city is in the "good old boys club". There are officers at the fire and police department that are frustrated too and would love to make changes.
 
Outside management will do nothing but kiss councils rear end. And in this city, that would just about kill us off. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Pacman Pacman wrote:

Marianne my rationale is that having continuity in upper management is better than shoveling a new person thru every 2-3 years.  Also drawing from the Law Enforcement Community at large gives you a wider selection of candidates to chose from, rather than 1 or 2.  Now I don't care if the best candidate comes from within or not, but don't limit yourself and stop the revolving door of 1-3 years and retiring at a higher rate of pay.  Increase the choice of Candidates that may be younger in age and more incline to stay longer.  I can hear it coming from Marianne now......
 
Any person you hire is free to leave that job at anytime, but to continue the revolving door of hiring and retiring Chiefs as seems to be the current practice is costing the city (taxpayers) to much.
 
Like the title says what is your "opinion" you may not like mine or agree with it and that is fine.


Pacman, I'm having trouble understanding your rationale for supporting searching outside the respective departments for chiefs if you want "continuity in upper management," which is what you state.  If anything, hiring an outside chief guarantees you don't have continuity in upper management.  

Now, admittedly I know very little about the structure of the fire and police departments, but my understanding is that in the case of the police department we have a chief and two deputy chiefs, who are majors.  We also have lieutenants; I believe there are three, but I may be mistaken.   Perhaps I'm not understanding what you mean by "upper management," but those individuals are to me "upper management." 

Our current police chief has been serving this community for a number of years; the same goes for our two deputy chiefs.  I would imagine that this is true for the lieutenants as well.  So, if one of the deputy chiefs becomes the next chief or one of the lieutenants eventually becomes the chief, then he or she will have been involved in the "upper management" of the organization.   Isn't that continuity?

If you want continuity, you promote from within from candidates who have served their respective departments and understand the workings of the organization.

If you are worried about a police or fire chief only serving for 2-3 years and then retiring, I don't understand how opening up the search to outside candidates addresses that.  You need to come up with another solution it seems to me.

As for the suggestion that you'll get a "better" pool of candidates by opening the search to outside candidates, maybe you will and maybe you won't.   I don't think that it's a given that you'll have a "better" (and perhaps someone can define what better means here) group of candidates who will "better" serve this community.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashkicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 2:46pm
Police and fire retirements are not based on going-out highest wage, it is based on money earned in your three highest 12 month periods.  While it probably will be your last three years of employment, you may have worked a lot of over time four or five years before retiring.
 
I didn't realize the city continued to pay into the retirement system for me after I left the City.  I guess I should say thanks.
 
Police and fire pensions are available after working 25 years and being at least 48 years old.  To rise to the level to be eligible to take the Chief's test, you will have spent quite a few years climbing through the ranks, hence, you may be close to retirement age.
 
I noticed you used Police Chiefs as a bad example for promoting close to retirement.  What about the Fire Chiefs?  Chief Sauter was promoted in 1990 and retired in 2007 and the current, Chief Botts was promoted in the same year with an eligible retirement date in 2014.  Those Chiefs will have served 17 and at least 7 years respectfully.
 
A possible drawback to hiring outside is the possibilty of Middletown becoming a "stepping stone" department.  You may hire a Chief looking to build his/her resume with a 90 man department looking to go on to bigger and better things.
 
Oh yeah, Pacman, I am a city fire fighter so let the Union bashing begin!
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 2:19pm
Marianne my rationale is that having continuity in upper management is better than shoveling a new person thru every 2-3 years.  Also drawing from the Law Enforcement Community at large gives you a wider selection of candidates to chose from, rather than 1 or 2.  Now I don't care if the best candidate comes from within or not, but don't limit yourself and stop the revolving door of 1-3 years and retiring at a higher rate of pay.  Increase the choice of Candidates that may be younger in age and more incline to stay longer.  I can hear it coming from Marianne now......
 
Any person you hire is free to leave that job at anytime, but to continue the revolving door of hiring and retiring Chiefs as seems to be the current practice is costing the city (taxpayers) to much.
 
Like the title says what is your "opinion" you may not like mine or agree with it and that is fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 16 2009 at 1:59pm
This whole retirement scenario with city employees can be handled from a cost efficient standpoint like Procter & Gamble handles their retirement costs. When you work for Procter, the money they are plowing into your retirement fund is very little the first 2 or 3 years. Then, as you hit the 5 year mark, the company money invested into your retirement increases dramatically and as you hit your 10 and 15 year mark, they're really putting the money away for you. At 20 years, you start the leveling off process as you approach the age plus years of service adding up to 75, signaling the end of the line. Now- here's the catch (and the money savings for Procter) and the city if they were to use this method for calculating retirement costs. About every 10 years, Procter has a "cleaning out of the deadwood" called a downsizing under the guise of "restructuring" which is a load of horse crap. If they clean out a good portion of the employees approaching the 10 year mark, and they replace those 10 year high retirement input people with new- just starting to put a little into their retirement accounts, they save a bundle of money to show big profits to their major shareholders and they, the people doing the downsizing, get big bonuses for eliminating big costs. Bottom line for the city- if you want to prevent big retirement payouts, get rid of the people every 5 to 10 years or so and bring in new people just starting out with little pay-in toward their retirements. It shafts the workers but it saves money. What the heck- just like Procter, you don't have a conscience anyway, right?   
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