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Hermes View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 8:00pm
What year did the trains quit hauling local passengers ? Late 50's ? Ohio is dotted with old train stations like ours here in Middeltown. So they do away with train service due to what ? Automobiles ? To costly ? (I'm sure they had some good reason) so now they want to spend $millions or possibly $billions for rail service to a few select locations in Ohio ?? What part of stupid does these type of people not understand ? It was routine travel 50 years ago and now all of a sudden it's exciting and new ? Europe has never done away with their passenger trains and they were intelligent about that. Fifty years after Ohio builds this high speed rail they will probably go to hot air balloons for travel.Pure ignorance. Only in America.
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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lrisner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by Hermes Hermes wrote:

What year did the trains quit hauling local passengers ? Late 50's ? Ohio is dotted with old train stations like ours here in Middeltown. So they do away with train service due to what ? Automobiles ? To costly ? (I'm sure they had some good reason) so now they want to spend $millions or possibly $billions for rail service to a few select locations in Ohio ?? What part of stupid does these type of people not understand ? It was routine travel 50 years ago and now all of a sudden it's exciting and new ? Europe has never done away with their passenger trains and they were intelligent about that. Fifty years after Ohio builds this high speed rail they will probably go to hot air balloons for travel.Pure ignorance. Only in America.


It is about the cost of fuel. Europe has never really had any serious oil reserves until the north Sea finds, not like the USA of old any way. This was behind the very high gasoline Taxes that have petty much always been in place. High Fuel cost makes Rail more competitive.

Cheap fuel (it's cheap now, even at $2.50/gal) has become an American Tradition to some degree. That is what's behind the New Rail System,I think, that you are talking about. Part of O'bama's Stimulus Package was a Rail System here in Ohio. Just a small part of a larger Plan.

My "unofficial" understanding is that the Rail system will be put in place as a Jobs thing but will help relieve the transportation bottlenecks that occur later when the new Energy Plan is in full swing and driving up fuel prices once again to a point where even someone like myself thinks Gas is "outrageous"! When that happens, guess what? Rail becomes competitive again!


That is the Plan as I understand it and could very well be wrong. Take my words with a grain of Salt!

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Hermes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 04 2009 at 11:41am
I understand what your saying Irisner,I just get really peeved when the government hands money to private corporations who benefit by raking in the profits with our money. Amtrak will be the corporate winner in this rail and  probably the sole beneficiary. Amtrak,like the airlines,can't keep it's ugly head above water long enough to do any good without government backing,it's just crazy.
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 04 2009 at 7:51pm
Just to drive home my point on Ohio high speed rail.
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokey Burgess Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 04 2009 at 10:17pm
WAKE UP AMERICA!!
It is the month of August, a resort town sits next to the shores of a lake. It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted.  It is tough times, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.  Suddenly,  a rich tourist comes to town.  He  enters the only hotel, lays a 100 dollar bill on the reception counter,  and goes to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick  one.  The hotel proprietor takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the  butcher.  The  Butcher takes the 100 dollar bill, and runs to pay his debt to the pig  raiser.  The  pig raiser takes the 100 dollar bill, and runs to pay his debt to the  supplier of his feed and fuel.  The  supplier of feed and fuel takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the town's prostitute that in these hard times, gave her "services" on credit.  The  hooker runs to the hotel, and pays off her debt with the 100 dollar bill  to the hotel proprietor to pay for the rooms that she rented when she brought her clients there.  The  hotel proprietor then lays the 100 dollar bill back on the counter so that  the rich tourist will not suspect anything.  At  that moment, the rich tourist comes down after inspecting the rooms, and  takes his 100 dollar bill, after saying that he did not like any of the  rooms, and leaves town.  No  one earned anything. However, the whole town is now without debt, and looks to the future with a lot of optimism.  And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government is doing business today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 05 2009 at 11:38am
Originally posted by Smokey Burgess Smokey Burgess wrote:

WAKE UP AMERICA!!
It is the month of August, a resort town sits next to the shores of a lake. It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted.  It is tough times, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.  Suddenly,  a rich tourist comes to town.  He  enters the only hotel, lays a 100 dollar bill on the reception counter,  and goes to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick  one.  The hotel proprietor takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the  butcher.  The  Butcher takes the 100 dollar bill, and runs to pay his debt to the pig  raiser.  The  pig raiser takes the 100 dollar bill, and runs to pay his debt to the  supplier of his feed and fuel.  The  supplier of feed and fuel takes the 100 dollar bill and runs to pay his debt to the town's prostitute that in these hard times, gave her "services" on credit.  The  hooker runs to the hotel, and pays off her debt with the 100 dollar bill  to the hotel proprietor to pay for the rooms that she rented when she brought her clients there.  The  hotel proprietor then lays the 100 dollar bill back on the counter so that  the rich tourist will not suspect anything.  At  that moment, the rich tourist comes down after inspecting the rooms, and  takes his 100 dollar bill, after saying that he did not like any of the  rooms, and leaves town.  No  one earned anything. However, the whole town is now without debt, and looks to the future with a lot of optimism.  And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government is doing business today.


Thank You....That illustrates my point about not using Gambling to save the Local economy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 05 2009 at 12:13pm
Irisner Gambling or will not save the local economy but it will give Middletown the shot in the arm it needs.  Please advise us as to where in the next 15 years Middletown is going to get $120+ million to just fix the roads, which in 10 years, if not sooner, will probably costs $200+ million if nothing is done.
 
If the city is to survive it must at some point begin to fix/repair itself both physically and image wise or when the meeting of Dayton and Cincy eventually occurs Middletown will be left on the sidelines.  Waiting for your plan to Create Wealth ain't going to cut it, for Middletown will be passed on by, by that wealth for the many other opportunites that will exist aline I-75 that don't suffer from the liabilities that Middletown has.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 05 2009 at 12:19pm
Gambling is not the complete answerer to saving Middletown, But it is a start and would help fix a lot of the problems this town and many like it have. But until city leaders now how to handle the money Middletown has, it wont much matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 05 2009 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Pacman Pacman wrote:

Irisner Gambling or will not save the local economy but it will give Middletown the shot in the arm it needs.  Please advise us as to where in the next 15 years Middletown is going to get $120+ million to just fix the roads, which in 10 years, if not sooner, will probably costs $200+ million if nothing is done.
 
If the city is to survive it must at some point begin to fix/repair itself both physically and image wise or when the meeting of Dayton and Cincy eventually occurs Middletown will be left on the sidelines.  Waiting for your plan to Create Wealth ain't going to cut it, for Middletown will be passed on by, by that wealth for the many other opportunites that will exist aline I-75 that don't suffer from the liabilities that Middletown has.


I think difference lies in the fact that I accept that Middletown will never recover as you describe. I think a big portion of Middletown is destined to meet the wrecking Ball (at HUD expense probably!). You say,with great sarcasm, you are waiting on my plan. Well, I submit to you Sir that any plan you devise will equally fail! The quick Buck never fixed anything!

It is just like the Sun Coke deal. I bet that 90% of the posters on here are blindly for it. You have no reservations, no questions! Build it, we need the money!  I, on the other hand ask questions and want answers.

 Slow, SOUND, Economic progress will save Middletown long term. If any one is hoping to savage their property Values here in Middletown, I think you have very little chance unless you are a Youngster. the Middletown of 1960 is gone!


One more comment! The Wall street mess with the Derivatives and all the scheming, was the same kind of thinking that builds Coke Plants without questions and brings Gambling in to save the day.

JMHO!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 05 2009 at 5:58pm
Irisner- Thought I'd interject a little of our experiences with gambling casinos. We lived in Tucson Arizona in 2004-2005 before returning to Middletown. Tucson has three gambling casinos in town. Just like here, there were groups of folks who swore that gambling casinos were the root of all evil because they promoted prostitution, increased crime, created bankruptcies for families as dad or mom gambled away the bill paying money, etc, etc. Each night we would watch the news on TV and read the papers thinking we would find an overabundance of crime and other negative publicity coming from these casinos. Never read about nor heard on the news, any indication that these casinos were creating any of these terrible "atrocities" claimed by the anti-casino groups. What the casinos did do, is to create a venue for entertainment for Tucson people, create decent paying jobs for Tucson, a town overburdened with low paying service industry jobs, many without benefits to boot, bring in outsiders to spend their money- some for the benefit of the city, kept taxes relatively low for the property owners and provided some money for the schools to operate, reducing the frequency for school levies. From our experiences, I have yet to see the destruction the anti-gambling folks said would happen. Closer to home, how are the casinos in Lawrenceburg Indiana affecting the local area as to crime, etc? Haven't heard too many negative stories but have heard that the area is booming with growth. The casino ideas so far, sound good to me. JMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 05 2009 at 10:40pm

There are a couple of important points to be made regarding Smokey’s parable and the gambling issue.

First, Smokey’s parable illustrates the principal that our money no longer has any intrinsic value. It is nothing more than a way of “keeping score”. The only difference between the tourist actually staying the night is that no one made a profit, but several things have been “re-valued”! The $100 worth of meat the innkeeper bought on credit from the butcher must have been equal in value to the worth of the pig that the butcher bought from the pig farmer. Likewise, that pig must have been equal in value to the services provided to the pig farmer by the hooker. (Substitute maid, carpenter, plumber, or any other service provider--It doesn’t matter, the principal is the same.) Next, the services provided by the hooker (or plumber, or carpenter, or maid) to the pig farmer have been shown to be worth only as much as the “rooms that she rented when she brought her clients there”. Finally, those rooms rented by the hooker are shown to be equal in value to the meat purchased by the innkeeper from the butcher! No matter what any of these goods or services may have been deemed to be worth at the time, they have been “re-valued” to all be worth the same, and the $100 “score-keeping card” has been passed around to cancel all of the debts. The tourist is actually irrelevant in this parable except to confuse the issue. The same result could have been reached if all of the principals would have sat down at a table and talked their circumstances through. Essentially the same thing happens millions of times every day as “money” is electronically transferred around the world from account to account by Automated Clearing Houses. (For example, you work all week, the value of your work is transferred to your bank account, then part of it is transferred to your MasterCard account, from which there has already been some transferred to the “butcher” for the roast you had for dinner Sunday, and some has been transferred from his account to the pig farmer from whom he bought the pig.

Second, with casinos, just as in Smokey’s parable, the “tourist” is an OUTSIDER to the group of merchants and frequently decides to partake of the goods or services. When this happens, the “tourist’s” outside “score-keeping card” (the $100 bill) STAYS in the community to circulate in the local economy. When enough “tourists” bring enough $100 score-keepers into the local economy, the innkeeper buys MORE meat from the butcher to feed them, the butcher buys MORE pigs from the pig farmer, the pig farmer has more profit to spend on “recreation”, the innkeeper expands his inn, which puts MORE local tradesmen to work, and so on, and so on, and so on. While all of this occurs, there are more wages and profits to be taxed so that City Hall can waste the money on the same old failed schemes downtown or to build “water features” at new “gateways”.

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 06 2009 at 12:20am
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

Irisner- Thought I'd interject a little of our experiences with gambling casinos. We lived in Tucson Arizona in 2004-2005 before returning to Middletown. Tucson has three gambling casinos in town. Just like here, there were groups of folks who swore that gambling casinos were the root of all evil because they promoted prostitution, increased crime, created bankruptcies for families as dad or mom gambled away the bill paying money, etc, etc. Each night we would watch the news on TV and read the papers thinking we would find an overabundance of crime and other negative publicity coming from these casinos. Never read about nor heard on the news, any indication that these casinos were creating any of these terrible "atrocities" claimed by the anti-casino groups. What the casinos did do, is to create a venue for entertainment for Tucson people, create decent paying jobs for Tucson, a town overburdened with low paying service industry jobs, many without benefits to boot, bring in outsiders to spend their money- some for the benefit of the city, kept taxes relatively low for the property owners and provided some money for the schools to operate, reducing the frequency for school levies. From our experiences, I have yet to see the destruction the anti-gambling folks said would happen. Closer to home, how are the casinos in Lawrenceburg Indiana affecting the local area as to crime, etc? Haven't heard too many negative stories but have heard that the area is booming with growth. The casino ideas so far, sound good to me. JMO


I challenge you to find any of my comments that allude to the "Evil" of Gambling. Why is that Gambling Supporters can not possibly see that someone might have an opinion different than theirs?

I run into this all the time when debating Gun rights. The anti-gun people always assume that I am a gun owner because I support the 2nd Amendment, when I actually am a bit afraid of Guns.

Assuming that I "fear" the evils of Gambling is equally simple Minded! I do take some offense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 06 2009 at 6:30am
Irisner- why so defensive? After re-reading my post to you, I didn't mention your name once as "alluding to the evils of gambling".Why are you taking what I said so personal? Wasn't meant to be. Lighten up! In the fourth line of my post I write "Just like here, there were GROUPS of folks who swore that gambling casinos were the root of all evil because ....." I was referring to GROUPS of people (like Burress and the CCV people) who think gambling is evil. Didn't single you out did I? I see the "other sides" opinion and merely mentioned our experiences as another viewpoint. Don't see a reason to "take offense" with my post. It was written to be informative as to our support for gambling casinos. As for weapons and the 2nd Amendment, I too support it and am a gun owner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 06 2009 at 10:19am
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

Irisner- why so defensive? After re-reading my post to you, I didn't mention your name once as "alluding to the evils of gambling".Why are you taking what I said so personal? Wasn't meant to be. Lighten up! In the fourth line of my post I write "Just like here, there were GROUPS of folks who swore that gambling casinos were the root of all evil because ....." I was referring to GROUPS of people (like Burress and the CCV people) who think gambling is evil. Didn't single you out did I? I see the "other sides" opinion and merely mentioned our experiences as another viewpoint. Don't see a reason to "take offense" with my post. It was written to be informative as to our support for gambling casinos. As for weapons and the 2nd Amendment, I too support it and am a gun owner.



I stand corrected and offer my apologies.
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