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New Housing Community |
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Paul Nagy
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Posted: Jul 28 2009 at 10:59pm |
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Vivian,
Carol is the Executive Director of the East Lake type developments throughout the country. Laura (who is new to me) is her secretary. I don't really know what Bill Triick has to do with all of this except a year or so ago I publicly (at a Council meeting) asked him to run with this project. I have been invisible to it since then and I really don't know much of what is going on with it.
When you asked about what went on at the MUM meeting that was news to me. Thats all folks! If I hear anymore I'll let you know.
Thank you for your interest and keep pushing our city forward to solve its problems.
Paul Nagy
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Hahaha Vivian I was wondering the same thing about Laura and Carole? And what does Bill Triick have to do with this?
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Mr. Nagy And what does Bill Triick have to do with this project? |
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Paul Nagy
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Here is the email I sent.
If you could give me a response to the following questions that I can forward on to the readers of middletownusa.com I would appreciate it.
1.Does the mixed-income strategy worsen the city's homeless problem and is that one of the effects of evictions in a new East Lake type development?
2. East Lake received a 19% approval rate out of 37 reviews with posters lodging similiar complaints of poor security, uncleanliness, unrule neighbors and unresponsive management. What is your reaction to this?
3. Are middle-income people or market-rate people comfortable paying rent and living in a mixed-income community?
4. Augusta, Georgia seemed negative toward the project from the beginning. They said that Atlanta had things going for them that Augusta did not. If that is the case why is an East Lake type project good for Augusta or any other city that doesn't have what Atlanta had going for it?
5. A number of negative reviews were recently posted about East Lake by tenants from 2002 to 2009. Could you please respond to those reviews in general.
Thank you for your early response.
Paul Nagy Here is the reply I received.
Dear Paul,
Thank you for these thoughtful questions. I am working on the responses and will run them by Carol early next week so you can pass the information along. I also wanted to know if Bill Triick is aware of the postings? We have been working closely with him, so I’m sure he would be interested to know about the dialogue in Middletown and could perhaps weigh in on some answers as well.
In the meantime, here are two sites that I found very helpful when researching the East Lake model and other communities that are similar: · Report on East Lake before and after: http://www.eastlakefoundation.org/sites/courses/view.asp?id=346&page=45322 · Atlanta Housing Authority’s material, video and information: http://www.atlantahousing.org/portfolio/index.cfm?fuseaction=qli
Thanks and I’ll get back to you with answers as soon as possible! Laura
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Ima B. Lever
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 23 2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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From: BUILDER 2009 -- Posted on: July 15, 2009 12:30:00 PM HUD Seeks to Broaden HOPE VI ConceptChoice Neighborhoods Initiative would provide funding for education and transportation initiatives as well as housing.
HUD wants to create stronger communities by taking the federal HOPE VI revitalization program to the next level, according to a July 14 speech by HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. At the Brookings Institution event, Donovan announced the availability of an additional $113 million in HOPE VI funding through the end of the year. But these funds come with stipulations that in some ways expand the program’s scope beyond low-income housing: HUD will now award extra points to public housing authorities that incorporate early childhood education into their applications, as well as smart growth and energy efficient development strategies. It establishes the groundwork for a broader program that HUD officials have proposed as a replacement for HOPE VI. The Choice Neighborhoods Initiative, for which HUD has requested $250 million in its proposed fiscal year 2010 budget--an amount nearly double the $130 million appropriated for HOPE VI this year--espouses a more holistic view. If approved, it will expand the range of activities eligible for urban renewal funding beyond public housing to include education and transportation. Public-private collaboration among local governments, non-profits, private firms, and public housing agencies will be encouraged. “Our federal policies have not kept up with reality. We have become a metropolitan nation, and our current policies do not reflect this,” Donovan said in his opening remarks, noting that 90 cents of every dollar in the U.S. economy is now generated by cities and their surrounding metro areas, which house more than two-thirds of the population. The multidisciplinary framework behind Choice Neighborhoods is consistent with similar efforts by HUD in recent months to align its agenda with those of other federal agencies (HUD recently announced a Sustainable Communities initiative in partnership with DOT and EPA, for example). On the topic of community revitalization, the agency has pledged to work with the Department of Education and other federal entities to create what Donovan referred to in his keynote remarks as “the geography of opportunity." This is a concept that acknowledges the importance of the built environment while acknowledging that physical structures are not the magic solution to eradicating poverty. Speaking during the same event, former HUD secretary Henry Cisneros noted that the best examples of transformed neighborhoods include mixed-income housing where “you can’t tell who is a public housing resident and who is not. What’s needed is not just a physical strategy, but one of income integration.” From a policy standpoint, Donovan said the government also must concentrate on removing existing barriers to sustainable development. Among them: limits on allowable commercial space that inhibit mixed-use development, and federal affordability metrics that currently fail to acknowledge transportation costs as a factor in affordable housing. Addressing areas hit hard by foreclosures will also be an important focus moving forward, he said, noting that some renewal efforts have been stymied by problems arising in adjacent neighborhoods. "A HOPE VI development that is surrounded by disinvestment, by failing schools, or by other distressed housing has virtually no chance of truly succeeding," Donovan said. Since the inception of HOPE VI in 1993, some 248 revitalization grants have been awarded to 130 housing authorities for a total of $6 billion. That sum, Donovan was quick to note, "has leveraged almost three times that amount in additional development capital--$17.5 billion, providing a very good return for the taxpayer, indeed." “Now we need to find a way to unlock the market response to concerns about things like energy efficiency and patterns of sprawl," Donovan added. "We need to allow the market to price in those kinds of changes in a way that government cannot.” Jenny Sullivan is senior editor covering design and community planning for BUILDER. |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Absolutely, Ms.Moon.
A brief, amazingly accurate assessment of the process and issues involved.
And simply basic common sense.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Wasteful Years ago I was involved in the building of many of the HUD Multi-Complex Dwellings in the tri-county area. Many were well thought out designs that offered a much better lifestyle for low income residents….HOWEVER….Two years later we found that we had a newly built ghetto. The lesson learned was it only takes a few really bad residents to bring down an entire area of this type of housing….and it is very difficult to get rid of them once they are residents because of current laws. SO the lesson to remember is just because you build a new school does not mean that all the students will suddenly become super smart....and just because you place people in new housing that their personilities and vaulues will suddenly change.
The key to success of this type of community is the screening of the residents before they move in.
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Paul Nagy
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Wasteful,
Wow! I am aghast. Was I sold a bill of goods? These response were over several years and average from 5 -7 negative responses a year. I have to think that through when there are 500+ families in that development. But it certainly says something is wrong. I should have answers to my questions from East Lake this afternoon or tomorrow. I'll post them as soon as I receive them.
Thanks for your homework. Back four years ago it was the bright star in development across the country and endorsed by all of the heavy weights. Their achievfements were astounding. My what a day brings forth. The world is getting crazier by the hour.
Paul Nagy
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Mr. Nagy no highlights and the questions still persist and the comments don't change. At $120 Million in 1995 for East Lake an estimate/guesstimate of $250 Million in 2009 is not an out of line guesstimate, no matter where the money comes from. Middltown does not have near the conditions that East Lake had going for it in 1995.
$250 Million paves every road in Middletown, buys Towne Mall and redevelopes it and creates 1000's of jobs. Of course the bottomline is where is the money going to come from to do either of these dreams. I don't see 10 Corporations/governement stepping forward to drop $25 million each into the Second ward or the east end at this time or the near future.
The Villages of East Lake
AVERAGE RATING
460 East Lake Boulevard, Atlanta, GA 30317
Jun 15, 2009 - tubbyd72 said:
THE WORST APRTMENTS EVER ! - I hated living hear th all passion of my soul. The ever changing staff was always inept, rude,and disingenuous. The amount of out of control kids in the neighborhood was horrendous. The security was useless. The notification of anything important going on in the neighborhood was terrible. They leave the most important information stuffed in your door to get easily blow away in the wind. ...Full review of The Villages of East Lake Opinions 43 of 43 Write a review Manager Reply
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Paul Nagy
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Nelson (Ima B. Lever),
Now lets look at the same article without the prejudicial highlighting while I'm waiting for a response to specific questions from East Lake.
Thank you.
Paul Nagy
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Ima B. Lever
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 23 2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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HUD Secretary Praises Green HOPE VI Projects, Defends Choice Neighborhoods Initiative
HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan recently delivered the keynote address during a HUD-sponsored conference held to highlight the application of green building and energy efficient technologies within the HOPE VI program. The “HOPE VI Green Building and Energy Efficient Development Conference” was held in Washington, D.C. on June 25 and 26 and was presented by HUD as an opportunity “to train, educate and inform Public Housing Authorities, affordable housing developers and contractors on how to plan, design, build and maintain energy efficient affordable housing communities.” The Secretary portrayed the conference as part of a larger HUD effort “to make America’s housing more energy efficient.” The Secretary noted that in addition to HOPE VI grants, HUD has made $600 million available—through funding provided under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA)—for PHAs to create more energy efficient public housing units. Secretary Donovan reminded the audience that HUD also recently entered into an interagency partnership with the Department of Energy to streamline the eligibility of HUD public and assisted housing units for the Department of Energy’s ARRA weatherization funding. During his speech, Secretary Donovan lauded the achievements of the HOPE VI program, noting that “over the last 17 years, 248 HOPE VI sites have been built at 131 public housing authorities in 35 different states.” Saying that HOPE VI “has…provided a good return for the taxpayer” and “changed the face of public housing,” the Secretary observed that the federal government’s investment of $6 billion in the program has leveraged $17.5 billion in additional investment capital, and that the more than 92,000 units demolished through the program have been replaced by more than 107,000 new or renovated units—more than half of which are or will be affordable to the lowest-income households. Despite the program’s strong track record, the Obama administration’s FY 2010 budget proposal includes no funding for the HOPE VI program. Instead, the administration has proposed replacing HOPE VI with a new program known as the Choice Neighborhoods Initiative (CNI). Although the administration is requesting $250 million for the CNI for FY 2010—$130 million more than was appropriated for HOPE VI for FY 2009—the range of eligible CNI activities “would be broader than public housing transformation” in that resources could be used “to support the transformation of assisted housing development, the acquisition and renovation (or replacement) of unsubsidized, privately owned stock, and the construction of mixed income housing in strategic locations.” Eligible grantees would include local governments, nonprofits, and for-profit developers in addition to local public housing agencies. During his June 25 speech, Secretary Donovan said that despite the successes of the program, “we believe we have only begun to tap the potential of the ideas and practices of HOPE VI.” The Secretary argued in favor of the administration’s CNI proposal, saying that “for safe, affordable housing to be truly sustainable, it needs access to the good schools, child care, health care, public transportation, and retail businesses that are staples of every vibrant community.”
By broadening the range of eligible program activities and the pool of eligible applicants, Secretary Donovan stressed that the CNI would “build on the legacy and lessons of HOPE VI” while also supporting the transformation of assisted housing development, the acquisition and renovation or replacement of unsubsidized, privately owned stock, and the construction of mixed-income housing in strategic locations. Although the administration’s CNI proposal does not include a guarantee that a certain amount of CNI funding would be earmarked for public housing revitalization efforts, the Secretary has previously stated “there is three times more public housing that is in troubled condition and located in neighborhoods of high poverty than there is assisted housing” and indicated that HUD expects that the large majority of CNI resources would be directed toward public housing as opposed to assisted (Section 8) housing. |
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Paul Nagy
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Well, Ima B. Lever (alias),
This is sad news to me. I'll check it out and get back to you on the current status of East lake. Again, I've not been involved for three or four years.
Paul Nagy
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Ima B. Lever
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 23 2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Eastlake community in Atlanta stirs questions
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ATLANTA --- In the early 1990s, Techwood Homes was a pit of inner-city blight and violence.
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In place of it are rows of custom-brick buildings with apartments and two- and three-story townhouses, with two swimming pools and landscaped greenery. A new model for public housing had its genesis in Atlanta, where the nation's first federal housing project became the prototype mixed-income community. Housing authority CEO Renee's Glover's stated goal is to eradicate all of the city's projects, and her counterparts in Augusta sent people there last year in an attempt to sell the concept. When Atlanta implemented the mixed-income strategy, the city had things going for it that Augusta won't: the pre- and post-Olympics building boom of the 1990s, a gentrification trend, a multimillionaire philanthropist and a community anchored by Bobby Jones' home golf course. "That thing was hailed as the new coming, and it wasn't at all," said Richmond County Neighborhood Alliance President Sammie Sias, who took the bus trip provided by the Augusta Housing Authority and wasn't impressed. With the help of a $42.6 million federal Hope VI grant, Atlanta demolished Techwood in time for the 1996 Olympics and replaced it with Centennial Place. The Villages of East Lake, another much-touted mixed-income community, came out of a massive effort by developer Tom Cousins, who in collaboration with Ms. Glover used East Lake Golf Club to turn a ghetto once known as Little Vietnam into a neighborhood where new homes sell for $1 to $2 million. Mr. Cousins, the developer of the CNN Center and the first phase of the Georgia World Congress Center, has said he took on the East Lake Meadows housing project after Atlanta's police chief told him the neighborhood was churning out more prison inmates than any other in the city. He bought the club in 1993 and poured $25 million into rehabbing it, restoring its "great hall" in honor of Jones, a co-founder of Augusta National Golf Club. The nonprofit East Lake Community Foundation raised $120 million for the neighborhood through donations, bonds, tax credits and government funds. After the housing authority prevailed in a lawsuit filed by displaced residents, East Lake Meadows was razed and in its place came The Villages of East Lake, which has a 50-50 ratio of public housing to market rate units. Dismally performing Drew Elementary School was replaced with Drew Charter School, where golf is incorporated into the curriculum and physical education classes use an attached YMCA. Centennial Place and East Lake were the first and second of 15 mixed-income developments in Atlanta completed or under construction. Now, simply demolishing projects and moving dirt spurs development in an area, said Richard White, the president of The Alisias Group, the housing authority's publicity firm. Even during the economic boom of the 1990s, few people invested in the area of Carver Homes in south Atlanta. With construction ongoing at The Villages at Carver and nearby McDaniel Glen, new rooftops are sprouting up -- duplexes, apartments and detached homes marketing for $200,000 to $300,000. When she was a teenager, Kimberly Woolfolk said she watched a man get shot at an intersection in East Lake, and she considered the area rife with crime and drugs. But as a single parent of two daughters, she rented an affordable housing unit in The Villages of East Lake for five years. She put her daughters in the on-site day-care center when they were younger, then later they attended Drew Charter School. "You don't get singled out," Ms. Woolfolk, 30, said, "and you don't get treated like you're different than anyone else. Basically, you have a chance to improve your life." Antoine Shearer II similarly benefitted from Centennial Place, having moved into an affordable housing unit with his fiancee four years ago. Now the couple and their two daughters live in a new townhouse on the site that they bought for $162,000 through an assistance program. It was recently appraised for $300,000, Mr. Shearer said. Though he's glad to have a nest egg, he wonders whether helping a dozen or so people like himself was worth displacing hundreds. "When you look at the aesthetics of it, it's better," Mr. Shearer, 39, said. "But what happens to the people?" Anita Beaty, the executive director of the Metro Atlanta Task Force for the Homeless, said the mixed-income strategy has worsened the city's homeless problem. The loss of public housing units has people on waiting lists lingering in shelters, she said. She also alleges that when the housing authority sets out to raze a complex, before relocating residents it evicts as many as it can by aggressively enforcing lease agreements. No comprehensive, nationwide study of the strategy's effects has been completed. Narrowly focused studies, both by a Georgia Institute of Technology economics professor and the Urban Institute social policy think tank, reported that families who left traditional public housing -- either through Section 8 vouchers or by returning to mixed-income communities -- made strides in quality of life as opposed to families that remained in projects. Other indicators show all isn't well. On the Web site ApartmentRatings.com, Centennial Place has a 26 percent recommendation rate out of 73 reviews, with naysayers deriding poor security, uncleanliness, unruly neighbors and unresponsive management. The Villages of East Lake fared worse with a 19 percent approval rate out of 37 reviews, with posters lodging similar complaints. Such sentiments point to an often-overlooked aspect of the concept: its success or failure depends not on appeal to public housing tenants, but to market-rate customers whose rents keep it afloat, said John H. Hiscox, the executive director of the Macon Housing Authority, which aided by a $19.3 million Hope VI grant replaced Oglethorpe Homes housing project with Tattnall Place. "It's risky business," Mr. Hiscox said. "What really has to be proven is whether the middle-income people or market rate people are going to be comfortable paying rent and living in a mixed-income community." |
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Paul Nagy
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Ima B. Lever,
I could be wrong, but I am of the opinion that an Eastlake project will have no bearing on the future number of Section 8 units here.
You are wrong. An East Lake type project would bring under control the current number of Section 8 and would specifically address the planned reduction use of vouchers within the program for the future.
Wasteful,
"$250,000,000.00 for 550+/- People/families, in a city of 51000 people/families. With that amount of money you could pave every road in Middletown, Buy Towne Mall facility and re-develop it into possibly thousands of jobs which would benefit the whole city. You folks are betting a hell of a lot of money and your city on a very small group of people who have a poor track record of being able to be self-sufficient even with considerable help."
Wasteful,
Your conclusions are as wrong as your assumption that $150,000,000 to $250,000,000 is for 550+/- People/families. No one know what the bottom line is as the proposal has never been defined. Those are guesstimates. You need to study the whole proposal. It includes a lot of road paving, Construction (mostly funded from private money), tearing down projects, demolition of old buildings, etc. etc., and other city development. It may never happen but if it does happen the way it is at East Lake it is anything but wasteful and I would ask you to tell us a better and more substantial way to revamp a dying industrial city.
Thanks for your interest and I hope you and others will continue to think and discuss these things thats how we will bring ourselves out of this situation.
Paul Nagy
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Bobbie
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 288 |
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I do not think we have the right people downtown to make a success out of a project like this. You would be gambling to see if they could get this done, and we really do not have the resources to waste a lot of money right now. Section 8 will not be going down anytime soon. With the raise of min wage that mean employers will hire less to keep their profits high or just to break even.
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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$250,000,000.00 for 550+/- People/families, in a city of 51000 people/families. With that amount of money you could pave every road in Middletown, Buy Towne Mall facility and re-develop it into possibly thousands of jobs which would benefit the whole city. You folks are betting a hell of a lot of money and your city on a very small group of people who have a poor track record of being able to be self-sufficient even with considerable help.
I can see now why some of the residents want to do away with the ward system and downsize council to 5. You as a city are making poor business decisions to the detriment of the city as a whole.
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tomahawk35
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 18 2008 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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There in lies the problem, How are you going to assist these residents to get jobs when we have the largest unemployment rate(12%) in the county. The best they could even hope for would be a minimum wage job which it would be more profitable to let our government take care of them( which has cause more decline than good). I think we would be adding more fuel to a already out of control fire.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Viet, I hope you're correct. I would like to see this number go down. We really need to get some good paying jobs in Middletown to attract people who can afford to purchase their own home. We now have why to many rental properties. |
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Ima B. Lever
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 23 2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Vivian- but if we change the Section 8 program to eliminate the number of vouchers and eliminate most of the 1662 currently on the books, there will not be the number of Section 8 renters for the contractors to fill the empty homes in the city. And, if the contractors won't buy them to rehab for potential Section 8 due to a lowering of Section 8 numbers, we'll get the bulldozers to knock down the dilapidated ones if other vested interest people won't buy them. The new Council make-up could make what Gilleland wants a mute point on this matter. She also may not need to pay as many city employees if we cut the deadwood from the city ranks (not unlike many cites are doing in this economic crisis such as Cincy)
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Viet, I would hope that replacing the City Council would reduce the Section 8 housing units in Middletown....however....we now have a huge number (over 1,000 as per Mr. Adkins) of empty housing units in town. Who do you think will be buying these houses?...Contractors...Who will they be renting to?....Section 8.
Viet I really believe that the number of Section 8 will go up over the next year. Ms Gilleland needs these funds to help pay city employees. I guess we will just need to wait and see how the City will use all these funds.
goverment grants.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Vivian- ahh, but if we change the players on Council and change the Section 8 program to reflect less of an impact as to poverty in this town(ie- get rid of all but what we should have as to numbers), along with requiring any members of the city building employee staff to leave if they don't want to go along with the new program, wouldn't that change the complexion of the impact of this "program of blight"? If we don't gut Council, we'll never know.
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Ima B. Lever
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 23 2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Ms. Moon,
In researching the Eastlake project in Atlanta, I found that the replacement of severely blighted HUD public housing units was the initial impetus for this undertaking. The highly competitive and lightly funded HOPE VI program of HUD was one of several tools that was used over the past 14 years there. Also, there was significant corporate involvement from the Atlanta metro area as well.
I could be wrong, but I am of the opinion that an Eastlake project will have no bearing on the future number of Section 8 units here. I will continue my research and report my findings.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Viet, I do not believe that the amount of Section 8 housing would be reduced to 550 units even with the completion of this new community project. I believe it will be years before the Section 8 is reduced to below 1600 units here in Middletown. |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Hate 2 butt in here, BUT:
I was invited to a presentation on this very topic BY Mr.Nagy quite a while back.
To me--this sounds pretty much like Mr.Nagy's project minus his name and any credit.
Whatever--let's hope something positive like this happens.
Doesn't matter who gets the accolades, and let them go to those "geniuses" over on the dark side .
Still--it is/was Mr.Nagy's concept pretty much as diagrammed by whomever is the leader now.
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