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Do Unions Hurt Small Business

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randy View Drop Down
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    Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 11:21am

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On Tuesday September 1, 2009 I was driving home from work and noticed that some protesters were out front of Dillmans on Central Ave. I spoke with Mr. Dillman and he said that he had let one of the guys protesting go and he was upset by that. (understandable) I asked why he had let the employee go and he responded by saying he didnt want to get into that (again understandable). He did assure me that it was a legitimate reason. Here is my question for our readers. Do unions hurt small businesses? I live very close to Dillmans and shop there often. I know Mr. Dillman and he is a great guy. He has had a business in this town for a LONG time, I believe since the early 60's.

In a time when businesses are fighting to survive, is a union a smart idea or in the end will it cause your business to head the way of the auto industry ? You tell me?




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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 11:44am
Unions Hurt America by driving up Costs, just look at the Auto Industry and the Public Safety Unions in Ohio.  Look at AK did Unions help them, nope....helped to kill a city.  The only people that make out with Unions is the leadersip and those that are basically slackers.Thumbs%20Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 11:49am
On a personal note, I do not agree with unions and think that they hurt businesses and force layoffs and shut downs. I do agree with the right to protest though. 
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lrisner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 11:59am
You guys have listened to Rush to often! Middletown would have never been the Great Middle Class City it was in the old days if not for Unions. The only people that Unions DON"T help are the Big money people. Even you Posters doing your Union Critiques are no doubt beneficiaries of union activity somewhere.

As to small business, do you see the Unions trying to organize Dillman's? No, and you won't. How can Unions hurt small Business when they rarely are involved in small Businesses?

You are just espousing what some Conservative Pundit told you to say about Unions. Get some Labor History Education before you spout off!

P.S. Rodger and Steve both are good guys, but I personally would never work for them. I have done business with them for a long time and have known many former Dillman's employees and state the former with good reason.

No offense, Mr Spider!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 12:14pm
As a former union member union's are double edged swords. Without union's wages would be so low the entire country would be living in poverty. On the other hand union's have ruined job's such as : teachers,police,fire and medical.
 
To answer the question,yes,union's can destroy small business.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 12:15pm
So Irisner your contention is that Union Leadership are not the true winners in Unions.....Come on.  The days of the Union being good for city's is over and they are huritng Ohio as far as Jobs go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 12:17pm

Hermes plenty of states are "Right to Work" states and do just fine.  While Ohio and Michigan are in financial messes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by wasteful wasteful wrote:

Hermes plenty of states are "Work at Will" states and do just fine.  While Ohio and Michigan are in financial messes.

 
 
wasteful,yes I agree Ohio is a right to work state,but as I stated union's are a two edged sword. They are good AND bad.
 
I don't understand what you mean by the financial mess ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 12:31pm

Compulsory Unionism Bankrupting States: Workers Flee to Right to Work States for Jobs

Wed, 07/01/2009 - 12:15 — Anthony Riedel

As the current economic downturn continues, many states across the nation are starting to find it increasingly difficult to stay afloat after having capitulated to the union bosses' extortionate demands.  Last week, the Wall Street Journal cited the National Institute for Labor Relations Research (NILRR) -- an anti-compulsory unionism think tank that exposes the harm forced unionism inflicts on workers -- when discussing Big Labor's contribution toward the severe financial difficulties California, New York, and New Jersey are experiencing and the migration of workers leaving these forced-unionism states:

Powerful unions. Mr. Obama believes union power is a ticket to the middle class. The middle class is getting creamed in all three of these "progressive" states, where organized labor is king. The unionized share of the workforce is 20% in California, 19% in New Jersey and 27% in New York compared to 13% across the country. All three are non-right-to-work states, have super-minimum wage requirements and provide among the nation's most generous public-employee pensions.

Workers in these paradises are indeed uniting -- by leaving. New York ranks first, California second and New Jersey third in moving vans leaving the state. A study by the National Institute for Labor Relations Research found that over the past decade these and other high-union states (mostly in the Northeast) had one-third the job growth of states with low union penetration.

NILRR recently found an especially strong correlation between a state’s Right to Work status and its job growth, while employees in Right to Work states are benefiting from faster job growth and higher real purchasing power than their compulsory unionism counterparts.

Perhaps it's also worth revisiting a Wall Street Journal article penned late last year by National Right to Work President Mark Mix, reminding us that a massive expansion in forced unionism power played a key role in making the Great Depression longer and deeper.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 12:34pm
Hermes Ohio is a "Forced-Unionism Stated".
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 12:43pm
Theres no denying the roles that unions have played in those three states ! Early in the 20th century the mob ran most unions in NY. And I'm sure unions in California were controlled by some type of organized crime recruiting crop workers. Evolution is the key in those three states. Plus you have to look at the relationship of politicians to unions to really get a grasp on things.
 
Again,if you want to see the working conditions of the early 20th century then ban all union's or union activity. I will guarantee a return to these types of conditions if union activity is ceased.
 
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by wasteful wasteful wrote:

Hermes Ohio is a "Forced-Unionism Stated".
 
 
 
 
Thanks for posting that wasteful. Apperantly Ohio has gone from a right to work to forced unionism since I was a member. I'll have to explore that a little deeper.
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 12:52pm
"I will guarantee a return to these types of conditions if union activity is ceased."
 
About 22 States are "Right to Work States" I don't hear about sweat shops and early 20th Century conditions in any of them.  Why Not?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 1:00pm
I dont think a union will hurt a small business. It will protect the workers from the overzealous busness men to treat them unfairly. There is no rights in the workers place, and when they are let go they have no rights there as well. No matter what the reasoning the employer is always right, the worker is screwed. A procedure needs to be in place to help them, if not a union, but some representation
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 1:12pm
Ouch It should be a black eye to the community for a small business to mistreat its workers. But there needs to be something in place to help the at will worker form the abuses of management and owners. Any suggestions. Because if you have no representation then all anyone has to do is say you're fired, and thus you have no recourse. That is the reasons for the protest and flyers are still being passed on this issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 1:36pm
Mr. Dillman may think he let the gentleman go for a valid reason, but on the same day he went to the sav alot on universty and discharged his sister, that made it personal!!!!
 
Mr. Dillman used a medical condition in that dismissal which is protected under the America disabilities act. this is also against the EEOC standard. So Mr. Dillman I hope these two people take as far as the supreme court.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ronls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 1:39pm
To Roger and Steve,
 
You may think you had a good reason for dismissing the gentlemen employee, but it's my understanding on that same day you went to another one of you locations and dismissed his sister to me that is being vindictive and that's what your known for!!!!!
 
I hope they ruin you!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 1:45pm
ronls if Unions were to go into all small businesses there would be no small businesses left as they could not afford to operate and if they could they would have to raise their prices to the public so high that you would be complaining about that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 1:54pm
I would suggest you use you time more wisely and stop picketing and get another job.  Unions would kill small businesses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by wasteful wasteful wrote:

"I will guarantee a return to these types of conditions if union activity is ceased."
 
About 22 States are "Right to Work States" I don't hear about sweat shops and early 20th Century conditions in any of them.  Why Not?
 
 
 
wasteful you copied and pasted but you still didn't hear me.  LOL
 
I have worked for a few companies that thought it was 1920. (This was in the early 80's)
Pay wise and safety wise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 2:42pm
ronls,for a business like Kroger yes a union is fine,but for someone like Dillman a union is a killer. I have worked for small family run business in my time and all a union does is guarantee discord among the owners and employees. Besides,unless your a manager or a professional meat cutter a job in a place like Dillman is not a career anyway. Employees  come and go all the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 2:43pm
If anyone thinks having Dillman's unionize will save them money I have some section 8 housing for sale.

I for the life of me don't understand why teachers need to unionize, heck they are already public employees, how much regulation do they need?

Back when child labor laws were being violated in this country, unions were good.
Why don't unions work harder at trying to unionize unfair workplaces throughout the world and leave America alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 2:54pm
John it is the same for Public Safety.  I worked for Public Safety in a Right to Work State and had all of the protections of any other Civil Servant.  Got Raises each year some years better than others, Paid Health Care, Vacation, Sick Leave, Etc., Etc.  There is no reason for Police and Fire to be Unionized and if it is a strike you are worried about have them sign a contract to not strike.  They do fire them. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 3:07pm
I wouldn't imagine that small businesses would be a target for unions. The employee turnover is high due to the wages paid and benefits not being offered or non-existent. Some small businesses attract "revolving door " employees that want to make quick money for their next fix or bottle of booze. No worker, especially with a family, is going to stay for long and will want to move up and away from entry level, low wage jobs eventually. Low wage small business places probably won't attract a union because the union knows that the lower wages make union dues hard to pay.

As to the "right to work" subject- We lived in Tucson Arizona in 2004-2005. It was a right to work state. Two reasons why I couldn't find a decent paying job there. (decent paying defined as $15-$20/hour) Right to work meant a worker had a right not to pay union dues and still stay with the company. Problem was, there were no union companies in Tucson which meant there were no good paying jobs either. All non-union, service-oriented low paying "resort town" jobs. Having the Mexican low wage worker there didn't help either. Employers could choose them over a naturalized American and not pay the going rate that an American would work for. Worked in a plastics plant in QA. The only non-Mexican people on the night shift in that plant was the plant manager and I. We would both talk each night as we were the only ones that spoke English. I'm not a fan of "right to work" because of my experiences in Tucson. Keeps people poor. No stimulation to pay a livable wage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2009 at 3:20pm
You know Vet, the good thing about America is you can move to a place where the employment is more suitable.
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