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Tuesday, April 16, 2024 |
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Are we getting our Monies worth |
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acclaro 
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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 Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 9:08am |
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Vet, thanks for the reminder on why Monroe left, I recall vaguely that what you said was right on point. Spider, you are going to have to begin understanding levity and satire. My point was I've heard so much in the area of excuses, the reason this hasn't occurrred or that hasn't occurred, is I simply don't heed either council or the school boards commentary as it offers very little of substance. My point is---I'm in the camp that Vet just said what he gains from listening, hence the satire.
As for the ego, I buried that at the door many times, but if you want toi attempt to insult me I don't have my facts in order or aren't prepared to debate, I'm prepared to demonstrate otherwise. Ms. Andrews said "see you later" a week ago and obviouly meant it---I'm perfectly fine with that.
The question to you and the supporters is what were the dire conseuences of Monroe leaving (we all know the answer correct?), and to echo Mr. Presta's comments, with Monroe leaving and the added tax burden, others left in the prison camp who can't escape end up with a higher bill to pay. That's part of the reason others aren't moving in.
Franklin did very well in having the state run its system and came out the other side better. Middltown drifts into a sea of CI, with no improvement on the horizon. Not any ego in my commentary, and being totally truthful of the school board and city council. Nice people maybe, but they surely have made a mess of it haven't they? In 6 years from now, the issues which began 10 years ago, will be still on the table, just like they are now. Critical mass needs to be reached where the majority rule, and put the leadership in the back seat. Aimlessly throwing $$$$$$$$$$$ at MCSD will not solve the problem spider. That's not ego speaking, that's analysis speaking, the same you would make in running your business.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 10:52am |
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my point being:
I am really not interested in:
your profession
your address within the city
your income/education
your real name
I honestly only follow what you have to say about issues and information related to the issues discussed and local "news". I identify everyone by their screen name, with proper names viewed as nothing more than a fabricated screen name. The MESSAGE--not the MESSENGER
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 11:21am |
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Sj, I re-read your post on the demographs and how section 8 has hurt school performance. I'm sure there are wonderful academic studies I can read, but with your work with Ms. Andrews, could you pull some quantitative data I can read and evaluate on the following:
1. Please provide the mean ACT score for students at MCSD- I know Fenwick is 25. What is Middletow's?
2. Please provide the data that supports the average profile of a student testing through the school district associated with the 30 or so indicators; that is, how many (%) score at what level and come from two family parental homes, average household income is? et al.
3. Of the the total student population in Middletown, how many and what % are verified to live within a section 8 house?
4. Of the students whom are expelled or have demerits, what % have two parents, one parent, and what % is african-american, white, hispnaic, other?
5. How much open enrollment students attend MCSD %, and what are their demographics- two family homes, one family, where do they fall in the score segmentation? Do they hurt or help the test scores? We know the school district makes $$$ off these students, just as Monroe does which has a two month 'open enrollment' window.
6. What economic impact did Monroe have on $$$ when leaving and an extrapolation on test scores?
7. Finally---as Ms. Andrews stated Middletown lost $ MM associated with Franklin's successful land grab, how was that figured and quantifid, or is it just a swag?
Your responses will be helpful in determining my final poition in May, as you know my current position. I appreciate your response
As to the above: 1) I have not divulged my education nor schools attended, 2) I have not divulged my profession, only referenced some aspect of profssional training to level the playing field (you understand my point) 3) I have not given an address 4) I use only a screen name, as the message is more important than the messenger.
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Nick_Kidd
MUSA Resident 
Joined: May 15 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 12:33pm |
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The following is the letter I send to the Journal in 2007 when the schools last wanted to pass an undeserved tax renewal/levy. (I also sent copies of report cards so they would know that all the figures were correct. The Journal published only the last paragraph with no facts or figures to back it up. That was my last letter to the Journal.)Notice that MCSD was at the bottom of the rankings before we had so much section 8. Section 8, old buildings and minorities are all just excuses for not educating the children of Middletown. Note that test scores for the last three years were: 6 out of 30 (20%) and 5 out of 30 (16.66%) the last two years. This is indicators met on the MINIMUM proficiency test. Also remember that MCSD was losing about 4% of their students every year. Also note that the AYP has still never been met. I thought that the state was taking over schools that never met the AYP.
Mr. Price suggested that the citizens get the facts before voting on the school levy. The following are taken directly from MCS (Middletown City Schools) yearly report cards from the state. DISTRICT ACADEMIC RATING SYSTEM: (from first report card for 2001-2002 school year) EXELLENT - Districts met 21 or 22 (out of 22) performance indicators. (95.45% to 100%) EFFECTIVE - Districts met 17 to 20 (out of 22) performance indicators. (77.27% to 90.90%) CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT-Districts met 11 to 16 (out of 22) performance indicators. (50.00% to 72.72%) ACADEMIC WATCH - Districts met 7 to 10 (out of 22) performance indicators. (31.81% to 45.45%) ACADEMIC EMERGENCY - Districts met 6 or fewer (out of 22) performance indicators. (27.27% or less) School Number of state Indicators met as District’s Adequate yearly year Indicators met a percentage designation progress (ayp) 2001-2002 8 out of 22 36.36% academic watch 2002-2003 6 out of 22 27.27% academic watch NOT MET 2003-2004 5 out of 18 27.77% academic watch MISSED 2004-2005 4 out of 23 17.39% continuous improvement NOT MET 2005-2006 7 out of 25 28.00% continuous improvement NOT MET Note that the lowest score MCS received was the same year MCS moved up a designation! Ninety three percent of Ohio’s schools increased at least one designation that year. The other seven percent were already in the excellent designation, and could go no higher. That is not progress. It’s a way to SAY our schools have made progress, to get levies passed. The adequate yearly progress, set by the state, has not been met one time. You will also note that the mailer you received from the school board, said our “student test scores continue to improve each year.” You be the judge, but notice that our schools scored lower every year than they did on the first report card. Since we now have twenty five indicators, MCS should be in academic emergency. At the public meeting at the high school, Mr. Price said MCS were right against the effective designation. One more example of getting fiction rather than facts from the school administration. MCS refuse to educate our kids, are hurting our future and have destroyed Middie pride. How can anyone be proud of having some of the lowest performing schools in the state? Last year there were NO school districts in academic emergency in the state of Ohio. There were only FIVE school districts in academic watch. There were ONE HUNDRED TWELVE school districts in continuous improvement. The other nearly FIVE HUNDRED school districts were either effective or excellent. These figures seem to indicate that MCS are among the ten lowest performing schools districts in the state. This is what the school administration wants to “keep it working” and to “keep Middie education and traditions strong and alive.” If the school administration would actually EDUCATE our children, maybe we could get back the Middie pride we once had when our schools did educate our children. We must bring businesses, jobs and people to Middletown. Middletown must become a desirable location with GOOD schools, good streets and competitive tax rates. The only way to save our schools is to vote down the levy, let them make the cuts and then get the state to take over the school district. The state will see that our children are educated, which is the only reason for our schools to exist. Nick Kidd |
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Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 4:26pm |
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Bottom line--if you expect a 26% funding cut to improve our scholastic performance and make this school district more attractive to perspective students and families, then your logic might be extremely twisted. No school district could absorb this kind of financial hit without catastrophic results. If you want to re-build our system from an even deeper hole than we are in currently, feel free to knock down this replacement levy. If you can look our students in the eye and tell them "I voted against the levy to kill your extra-curriculars(which DO help keep many children involved and in attendance to fulfill academic requirements for activity eligibility) and classes outside of the basic minimum for your OWN GOOD! SO THANK ME!", then go for it.
Mr.Kidd--I have tremendous respect for you, though the stats you posted are nothing new or surprising to anyone, while disappointing to everyone.
acclaro--if you need statistics to verify the effect of Section 8 students(companioned with those students from similar demographics NOT on section 8) on the overall mix and academic performance, then you might need to know this city much better. I doubt that you spend much(if any) time west of Breiel Blvd. You answer many of your ?s in your everyday postings here. If you REALLY need the answers to your ?s, then I strongly suggest that you visit the local school board meetings to present your list, mail the ?s to the same entities, and in essence, become involved in something other than internet banter. Coulld you list some of your local involvement in committees, boards and constructive organizations?
I am not concerned with changing your thinking, and I am not here to play some bizarre game for your appeasement. You have a consistent mind set of negativity, and seem perfectly happy and justified with your perspective. What we see locally is mirrored in similar communities throughout the country, and YES--it is worse in many places. Most here have already made their decision
I simply don't see the possibility of moving forward by taking giant steps backwards. The answer will be to use school funding more effectively. Hopefully this will happen. Changing(diminishing the $$ is not a real answer. Changing those controlling the funding is always a recurring option(please remember that there were NO challengers to the incumbent school board members).
I have a much better opinion of Ms.Andrew after just two sessions of working with her. She is up against it, with little support from any corner other than the regular levy supporters. If local school staff does not consider this issue worthy of their support(in every way), then we need to replace our staff. That can be accomplished much easier than re-building a system(and staffing it) when you are at a bare bones minimum or under a state takeover.
There is no white knight employer swooping down to provide any influx in upscale job opportunities and to create a more attractive community environment. Our local economy is decimated, evidenced by the empty business properties that prior featured virtually every business sector available. No income means no sales, no jobs, no tax revenue etc.
I sometimes think that a few of you revel in the current economic situation.
Sad
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 5:35pm |
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Spiderjohn, I am disappointed with your response. I didn't expect an immediate answer but as you said you were interacting with Ms. Andrew I assumed you could reach out effectively to provide this information. Much if not all, of the school systems problems are brought upon themselves. That includes the Monroe fiasco and neglect (the red haired step child), and the city council's unwitting overabundance of section 8. These are the same questions I would be asked if I were to ask a banker for a loan, or a Board for more funding.
As for the Boards I sit on, they include Summit Partners and 3i private equity with liuidiy portfolio investments > $15 BB (Palo Alto and London), formerly the IBM and Microsoft's Foundation Boards (awarding nearly $500,000,000) in philanthropic donations to private and public institutions of higher learning throughout the United States, and I also sit on two hospital boards with rooms greater than 600, e both nationally recognized for open heart surgery and non invasive techniques.
I have been a Boy Scout Assistant Scout leader, a Vigil Order of the Arrow member, donated funds for those less fortunate to attend Philmont Scout Ranch many times, a jv tennis coach, Rotary Club member, a member of St. Mary's parish (where I tithe) and am presently a President Club member at Georgetown. My favorite book is The Servant as a Leader.
As for reveling in failure and financial loss, anyone who would make such a statement is simply out of touch with reality. Yes, sj, I revel in my house value being $230,000 below where it should be based upon future net value, the fact I will probably auction it at a huge loss as did Pratt who tried to 2X his $$$ on Levey's place, and in spite of a normally very positive mindset, watching the city decay with such an abhorrent degree of apathy is like watching one die very slowly from cancer.
Of course, all those whom have a different opinion rejoice listening to our fellow communities use Middletown as a classic case study in failure and we rejoice in having levies come our way every few years wanting more, and living in a city which bears far more in common with Haiti than Shaker Heights or Upper Arlington.
Well, thanks for the reply. I'll see if one of the school board members responds in an email. Sorry about passing on the sub-committee for asphalt repair, but Vet tried that, and lasted I recall two weeks?
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VietVet
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Mar 31 2010 at 7:15am |
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Ah, yes acclaro, the old street repair committee with Becker, Marconi, Scott-Jones, Gilleland, Ginger Smith and a number of lower position city supervisors/club boys that comprised it. Try as I may, as a regular citizen and an "outsider", I went in with the best of intentions, thinking I was honestly going to make a difference. Suggestions were made....questions were asked, and, like the Citizens Comments portion of the meetings, no response was provided as most just sat there in utter silence, hoping you would just go away, especially when I talked about overstaffing and downsizing/consolidating positions. Bet they cringed when I showed up after getting back into town from work in Dayton. Yeah, it took about two meetings to realize what the game was and about four meetings to finally accept that they had already made up their minds after the first meeting and anything beyond that was merely "window dressing" to fool the public into thinking they were going to do something. Just wasn't worth the effort any longer to go.
I don't attend "committee" meetings anymore, but I would imagine that all meetings are conducted like this with a pre-determined agenda with a hint of appeasement discussion thrown in to bullsh-- the public. Just speculating here but I would guess that this agenda includes any dealing with school levy support also. No one with dissenting views are listened to, no matter what they bring to the table as to charts, facts, articles, historical data, suggestions as to improvement, etc. Their job is to get the levy passed no matter what evidence is brought forth to negate their message. JMO |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Mar 31 2010 at 7:41am |
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The message is loud and clear, Vet.
I understand and agree with your assessment of most Council-created "committees", and have had numerous experiences similar to what you have had. We have to continue, picking the right spots and hammering away.
To a few, "There is no success like failure. And failure is no success at all"(Dylan).
You continue to miss my point and dodge my ?s, acclaro.
As premised--not interested in your accomplishments outside of the local environment.
Just your local volunteer efforts/contributions. "None" is an acceptable answer btw.
Not concerned about your property value or location.
Very familiar with Mr.Pratt's wonderful location and predicament. If I was younger and had a local future, I would find a way to purchase his home. I like it very much.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Mar 31 2010 at 9:07am |
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Spiderjohn, your tone and mannerism is beginning to take on an overture similar to Ms. Andrew- paraphrasing Martha Stewart, not necessarily a good thing to come across cavalier when pushing an agenda. I've politely responded, asked you questions which have remained unanswered, and now I am accused of the old bobbing and weaving boxing trick huh?
I believe now we are in a debate where you are attempting to demonstrate you do more in community service than I rght? Well, that's pretty easy for one that works in Middletown to accomplish and has no import to making a decision on the levy. I said before, I travel weekly all over the country, and at times in my career, have been lucky to get home every 2-3 weeks to visit the family. Tht doesn''t make you more qualified to access Middletown. On the contrary, you have more time to turn the people around making these decisions that have caused ruination. And what has been the outcome?
As for writing Ltrs to Editors, sending emails to council, city manager, and offering my services or support (read again I even told Ms. Andrew I would be a mentor for student(s) at MHS and you will note I received not even a response) and believe this offering and mentorship does work (review a case study at Oakwood sj- call their super).
Instead, I read you and Ms. Andrew blame performance at the schools on the poor, the section 8 demographic, with no presentation of evidence to support that. OK, you don't want to be bothered. So, you now make a statement you contribute more time to the community than I because of my business travels, so you are in a better position to be an advocate for the schools? You have a hard sell before you sj, wish you and the Board well, but "it will only get worse" isn't going to get alot of votes. You do have Mary Lord on the team though and the usual goup as you said, Ann, Sacks, so on.
I wouldn't worry about Levey's home, its just a few rooms---great though if you like to entertain and throw the parties. Oh, I've volunteered often, contributed money, as has my wife, to the private schools my children attended. When we moved back, As for the city, I've offered many times to help, get involved, as I have knowledge in certain areas that is quite uniue, but that was the period Ron Olson was riding his horse out of Middletown, and his comment to me was "I wouldn't waste my time if I were you---no one listens to others opinions." I guess you could put it in the same category of Vet's experience on the pot hole committee. You see sj, in Middletown, everyone who runs the show already knows what they want accomplished, they just want hired or non hired guns to get it done. That's why you are on the school committee, to pass a levy you were previously against.
As to why the teachers aren't rallying behind this yet, they think its going to pass and are just waiting on the new super to ride into town. They know too may others will be in the possee to round up votes like you not on principle or what it will accomplish, but peer pressure to do what others do in the circle of love. Sorry, that's a circle I chose many years ago, to avoid...just like the Butler Cty Republican Party Club where I was offered a plumb title. I don't need that spiderjohn to make me feel "whole.".
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Mar 31 2010 at 9:40am |
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acclaro--maybe you are correct in that I am unfairly and un-necessarily comparing our local situations. We have totally different responsibilities and availabilities, and we must assume that everyone does as much as willing or possible.
I hope that I don't come off as "blaming" anyone group for anything in regards to academic achievement. My logic is simply my long-term assessment of our current student base. "Blame" will get us nowhere.
As for answering your statistical ?s--that is not my responsibility, and I seriously doubt that you honestly expect me to work towards providing that data. Please address the school administration if you really want answers to ?s of which we already know the direction.
No need for either of us to become confrontational or engage in any "one-upsmanship", because we need to remain constructive in both agreement and disagreement.
I sound like Ms.Andrew? lol
I talk a lot more than Ms.Andrew from what Ihave seen so far.
I also support most of her direction regarding levy passage.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Mar 31 2010 at 9:52am |
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spider, lets just leave it it we respectly agree to disagree. As for summarization of issues, here's your campaign slogan (the school system not you personally). For those whom oppose the levy and believe its throwing good money away, the difference would be "IT COULDN''T GET ANY WORSE"
As George Will said, "The nice part of being a pessimist is you are constantly proven right or pleasantly surprised." I'd be quite happy to be pleasantly surprised sj, as would the coimmunity, but to date, we've been proven right...sadly I add.
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ashkicker
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jun 16 2009 Status: Offline Points: 86 |
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Posted: Apr 01 2010 at 9:46pm |
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Spider,
Please allow me to apologize if I upset you over my last post. My referral of the tiny brain was meant to agree with you. I was attempting to demonstrate that no matter your intelligence, everyone should know that income has to equal or exceed expenditures or the system is doomed to fail.
The retirement/benefits problem is not something I have an answer for. I'm sure the majority of the posters here believe we should greatly reduce our salaries. Everybody wants to hold onto the perks of their jobs and fire fighters are no different. I believe the retirement system is controlled by the state and the City has no control in the matter. Along those lines, ten percent of my wages go towards my retirement right now. Talks going on now in the state show that number will shortly rise to eleven percent and eventually reach twelve percent of my wages.
Tango,
Yes, the City Manager asked the Union to take a wage freeze. The Union responded by offering up other concessions to equal the amount of a wage freeze. The City Manager declined the offer.
acclaro,
In a economy that slows, the need for products and services slows. Less workers might mean less people eating out. It may mean less cars being purchased. It may mean shutting off cable or your cell phone. Do you think a slowing economy means less fire and squad runs?
Of course it doesn't. In the last 25 years, the City has grown by over five square miles and the number of runs have more than doubled. In that time frame the department has gone from 17 members minimum on duty (1 D/C, 4 Capt/Lt, 4 Medics, 8 fire fighters and 1 dispatcher) to 19 members minimum on duty today (1 D/C, 4-5 Capt/Lt, 6 Medics and 7-8 fire fighters) I believe covering the doubled workload by adding 2 more fire fighters per day seems pretty fiscally responsible.
As far as making runs that are not emergencies, yes we do. Maybe your neighbor has fallen and needs help up. Who is going to help her up? Is your number on her speed dial so you can go over and help? Maybe she has no family or nice neighbor she can call on for help. What you call an non-emergency may be a life and death situation for her.
ashkicker
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Apr 01 2010 at 10:56pm |
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Ashkicker-
I'be provided more information than I needed on this thread in particular. I agree one never knows the severity of an injury necessitating a call. I do know on several calls the department come, are there 15 minutes, and then leave without a hospital drive---good for the neighbor that its not serious.
I read on the Fox Business News this morning that public servants now average OUT-EARNING the private sector by 45% and their pension is 75% higher tha the priate sector. In California, teachers retire with an average pension of $100,000. and its bankrupting the state, as are its many other problems. It simply isn't sustainable. That includes these levies.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Apr 02 2010 at 3:00am |
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Acclaro
They also stated that California and Ohio were loosing businesses because of these tax burdens.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Apr 02 2010 at 6:59am |
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I hope that a few following this thread also read the on-going front page Cincy Enquirer piece on Nati's upcoming disaster regarding municipal employee retirement payouts and their inability to meet financial obligations down the road. The propsed remedies were incredibly expensive to everyone and eye-opening. Seems to be brewing everywhere, and rapidly coming to a head.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Apr 02 2010 at 12:10pm |
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Read about Hamilton sitting aside about 1/2 their executive suite of cars for their top earners forced by a city council member. This is exactly why these levies need to fail- they are under the cloak of need, when there have been no cuts and just constant increases in salary, benefits, cost of living increases, etc. I bet if you assessed the police department, fire department, city hall, and the school system in Middletown, they'd be overstaffed at levels that exceed even the US Postal Service and about 2x the numbers needed which the private sector would have outsourced some jobs, and made huge cutbacks. You simply cannot justify the numbers of school psychologists, assistant principals, and the one that really staggers me---a Communications Director! In essense, each district has their own PR mouth piece. How many do you think are at a Fortune 500---One! In Ohio, you have one for each district, insane.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 02 2010 at 12:33pm |
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acclaro you are exactly right. I own my own business and since March of 2008 when gas prices started rising and then the economy tanked until March 2010, I have successfully cut over $66,000.00 a year in expenses from my business. There was nothing that I didn't look at and the fat was cut including my salary, but I am surviving and when all is said and done I will be better off for the cuts I made.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Apr 02 2010 at 7:41pm |
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Pacman, for years companies use the term CI, continuous improvement, to refer to continually cutting costs, best practices, running lean and mean. There was re-engineering the corporation, the big thing in the mid 90's, to Six Sigma and all those Master Blackbelts out there making about what the city manager makes. In the same breath, but with different meaning, there is the school's CI, continuous improvement. So, the city doesn't practice what it should, continuous improvement to drive down costs, and the school system scores Continuous Improvement, not a good thing. Startling contradictions.
Folks have no idea how badly they are being impacted upon taxes and such. A $50.00 cell phone bill is taxed about $8.00, or about 15%, for the privilege of using a cell phone. We are taxed to death and its killing our society.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 1:44am |
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Pacman, It is not fair to compare your business to a governmental agency!!! First, you have an “open shop,” so there is no unions with which to deal. Your workforce is both dedicated and loyal and I daresay that even if that “Card Check” thingie becomes law, your workforce will reject unions no matter how many times they try to organize. Next, you have the full faith and confidence of your board of directors. Governmental agencies often report to elected officials who may not be on the same page (either with the government staff or with each other) or may be corrupt. They sometimes have to “sneak behind everyone’s back” to do stuff while you can do whatever you like and your BoD will stand behind you. Also, I’ve heard that all of your employees are classified as “salaried, exempt,” and therefore can be forced to work long, hard hours with no additional compensation. Governmental entities cannot do this. In addition, I have spoken with your Director of Human Relations, and I’d wager that he sides with you 100% of the time, and that it does absolutely no good for your employees to complain about anything.   |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Pacman
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Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 8:26am |
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Mike I know what you are saying. But the whole point here is that the city can not continue on the path it is taking with Public Safety and survive. The city can not continue to add $400,000.00+/- to its payroll year after year just for Public Safety, while firing non-union workers, at some point it is going to collapse. The time to deal with matter is now not when you are on the verge of financial disaster. The Unions don't seem to get it as they just continue on as usual. The Police and Fire Dept. can not continue on with this I am entitled to 2-3% raises a year and these exceptional benefits, paying 7+/-% of their health care benefits when the rest of the world is paying 25+/-% plus including the Federal employees, forever at some point the city is going to have to start laying off the Police and Fire employees.
Just like Sheriff Jones walked in one morning and laid off 15 deputies and the FOP cried foul as they were not even aware of the layoffs coming.
As far as not being a Union Shop, I'd close down before I would do that. As far as the Human Relations Director, I go home with her every night, hehehehe that is my Wife, The Boss.
  Don't tell her I said that.Things have got to change Mike between the excessive poverty and Section 8 on one hand and the "entitlement" mentality on the other the end they are going to drag this city down and those of us in the Middle will be the fatalities.
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Pacman
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Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 9:07am |
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Pension packages
top $1 million for Cincinnati police,
fire chiefs By Barry M. Horstman • bhorstman@enquirer.com • February 14, 2010 This story first appeared in the February 14, 2010 edition of the Cincinnati Enquirer Having risen through the ranks, Cincinnati Police Chief Thomas Streicher Jr. and Fire Chief Robert Wright will scale one final impressive height
when, thanks to a very generous pension plan, each wraps up his career with a $1 million retirement and benefits package. Having risen through the ranks, Cincinnati Police Chief Thomas Streicher Jr. and Fire Chief Robert Wright will scale one final impressive height
when, thanks to a very generous pension plan, each wraps up his career with a $1 million retirement and benefits package. In Streicher's case, that lump sum will come on top of an estimated $92,000-a-year pension and the more than $235,000 he could receive from the city as a result of 3,700 hours of unused holiday, vacation and sick days. Wright, who could cash out about $106,000 in unused leave and comp time when he retires, will receive a pension expected to start out at about $89,000. Wright's pension, like Streicher's, will rise with annual cost-of-living increases. Although the two chiefs put themselves in that enviable financial position simply by taking advantage of city and state policies governing pensions, overtime and comp time, the huge pay days awaiting them poses a thorny question: Should a public official retire as a millionaire – pre-tax, at least – solely on the basis of his pension and related benefits? "It's outrageous, morally offensive, and I say that
as a public official myself," said Steve Erie, a political science professor at the University of California, San Diego, and a widely respected expert on public pensions and compensation. "You don't expect to see a police chief leave with that kind of check in his pocket," Erie added. "The Cincinnati Police Department ought to have a recruiting poster saying, 'You, too, can be a millionaire.' This definitely is the end of the rainbow. And you wonder why people are so disgusted with government." The large payments in Streicher's and Wright's future stem from Ohio's Deferred Retirement Option Plan (DROP), which permits public safety officers to build sizable nest eggs in exchange for reduced lifetime pensions. To be eligible for DROP, individuals must be at least 48 with 25 years of service as a police officer or firefighter. When an officer joins DROP, he or she officially "retires," for pension purposes, but retains the same job. While that caps their future pension, as long as they remain in DROP – for at least three years and up to eight – the monthly pension they otherwise would draw accumulates in a separate account, along with interest and a portion of their 10 percent of salary contributions. |
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Bill
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Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 11:26am |
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I wonder if the city has recently paid for a consultant to do a report on the comp of city staff and compare it to similar cities in the area. I doubt it.
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wasteful
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Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 11:37am |
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Hmmmmm I have never heard of DROP until I read the article above. Just for everyone's edification.....WOW:
Current contribution ratesCurrent contribution rates are 19.5 percent of reportable payrolls for employers of police officers and 24 percent for employers of firefighters. This is in addition to full–time police officers and firefighters contributing 10 percent of their gross salary to OP&F.
Proposed changes to contribution ratesIn early 2006, the Ohio Retirement Study Council (ORSC), an organization created to assist the state legislature, governor and other public officials in the formation of sound public pension policies, reported that OP&F does not currently meet the state’s 30–year funding requirement. While OP&F is fully able to meet its current obligations, the Board had to develop and present recommendations to ORSC that included adjustments to bring OP&F into compliance with Ohio’s statutory funding requirements while meeting its fiduciary responsibilities. Among the proposed changes were adjustments to the employer and member contributions paid to OP&F. The recommendations presented by OP&F's Board in 2006 would adjust employer contributions for police officers by raising the amount to 24 percent over a five–year period, which OP&F recommended being phased in at one percent per year. OP&F has also recommended that pension contribution withholdings for active police officers and firefighters be raised from the current 10 percent to 12 percent over the same five–year period. The OP&F Board of Trustees does not have authority to make the employer and member contribution adjustments; they can only recommend the changes. The Ohio General Assembly will have to pass legislation to allow any change in contributions. As decisions are made, information will be announced through direct mail and articles in the Employer Digest. |
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acclaro
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Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 1:59pm |
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You may have read the artcile and youtube link showing Furmon and Dixon at Butler Cty going at it, over Furman complaining how his Hazard or Eastern Kentucky neighbor was downgraded and needed $93,000. as she was a nice person. Then, the fact they (Butler Cty Commission) couldn't get an agreement to have the payscale evalution agreed to be moved forward. It might upset this outlandish salaries and perks. When you see levies coming, just look at the facts folks, how stacked the overhead is, and how they just want to keep it in existence, using whatever excuses, means, scapegoats, as possible. SpiderJohn called it right some time ago....it a beast that requires alot of care and feeding- with no return. The "pet" costs too much to maintain.
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wasteful
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Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 2:23pm |
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