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Laubach feels Middletown is....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 12 2010 at 10:34pm
Vet....Just happened to spot that from the top of the parking garage when I was taking pix of the Sorg demo & others before the garage demo began. I had no clue before this that the John Ross Store had been in this location. I was going to bring it up a few months ago and forgot about the pix. These posts just happened to jog my feeble mind!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TudorBrown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2010 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

But, according to Law Director Landen (a member of the local illuminati)


That's got to be Middletown USA quote of the year!

LOL
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TudorBrown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2010 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by Jlaubach Jlaubach wrote:

MUSA,

I made last night’s comments for a reason. Given the situation, I feel it’s the best option to support this project do to the success of other Pendelton projects in other areas similiar to our downtown. We desperately need a presence of business and activity downtown. I believe without positive activity the downtown will further decline and attract more criminal activity. This situation is not desirable for Middletown and it cannot be left as is if there is any desire to stabilize and revive our city. I meant what I said and it’s my displeasure to hear the grief it may have caused some. As I stated last night, I have been conflicted about the project simply for the fact that it involves the spending of public money. However, I am no more pleased to have a piece of property sitting on the city's hands which sits vacant (which was purchased before my time). The Over-the-Rhine project is very impressive. In addition, the owner has also purchased historic property in vicinity of the center (A 19th century church to name one) and turned them into very successful ventures in previously abandoned areas. Indications are the same will be done here.

I am sorry to hear the loss of support from some of you. I live my life to try and do what I feel is the best and most principled thing. You can’t be all things to all people all the time. Sometimes no matter what you do half of the folks are going to love it and half are going to hate it. However, that is beside the point. I have to do what I think is best given the situation and circumstances given to me. If it were up to me, many things in government would be very different. I believe in the economic and governing principles laid out by Thomas Jefferson, Adam Smith and John Locke.  But I can only control so much with one vote on Middletown City Council. I must accept the constraints and conditions of previous council decisions, state and federal law and other matters that create the world we live in 2010. I would hope that folks on this site are intellectually honest enough to see that I am a puppet for no one, not on this site, not in the city building and not in the “heavy hitter” class. I cannot nor have I ever proclaimed to do things to make everybody happy. Again, if my words caused a loss of support, I am disheartened by that. However, I must act on what I feel is best for Middletown.

Sincerely,

Josh Laubach



Many of us are still behind you one hundred percent Mr. Laubach! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dooraghero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2010 at 3:32pm
It seems as if the City Council has been beset by the madness initiated at the federal level.  By throwing other people's money at a problem and subsidizing projects they expect a renaissance in downtown Middletown?   The trouble with subsidies and utilizing money derived from an increasingly small tax base is that it will eventually run out.  Very few, if any, subsidized projects at any level of government become profitable.  The madness of this downtown "arts project" is that it flies in the face of critical priorities during these tough economic times.  Obviously, safety and security are job number one for any government.   Then again, Middletown City government seems to have bought into the fallacy that government must be involved in as many things as possible since the hapless peasants are unable to function without the direction, indeed, control of the authorities.   Facilitated by an influx of federal and state grants and loans, the Middletown City Council seems to be charting a course of debt rather than solvency for our fair city.   Council members would be wise to heed the words of Thomas Jefferson:
 
A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicity.
 
It is indeed a great disappointment that the two newest members of Council, Mr. Smith and Mr. Laubauch have been assimilated into the mad spending club that has ruled Middletown City Hall for years.  Initially, these young Council members looked as if they would indeed vote with their consciences and resist pressure from the city elites.  Sadly, it seems as if they have been broken and domesticated like wild ponies. 
 
It is especially disappointing to see that Mr. Laubauch, who presented himself as a fiscal conservative, a liberty-minded individual, and a patriot concerned with future generations has chosen to put his blinders on and follow in behind his masters, responding to every tug on the reins with the expected responses.  The bright lights that were the candles of positive change on City Council have been snuffed; nothing left save whisps of potential fading like smoke into the bland ephemera of Council Chambers.
Would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance,just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives but they'll never take our FREEDOM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jlaubach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 15 2010 at 8:31pm

Doorag, I am not standing behind anyone other than my name which is clearly posted here. I spoke my mind to let my fellow citizens know where I stand. I would ask that you refrain from questioning my commitment to something so great as liberty based on one localized issue.  If you or others are committed to the cause of freedom, please run for a seat next year.  You and everyone else on this site is free to do as I did and run for a position so as to have the chance to give to something greater than one’s self. 

 Mr. Presta, I have read WEALTH OF NATIONS and do not feel the need to re-read it. You have put out a great deal of writing on this matter. However, neither you nor anyone else on this board has taken the time to contact me with concerns about this issue.  If you have genuine concerns, please contact via my city email or call the city building and I will get back with you. Folks can write all day long from the comfort of their homes about what they would do. I am not in that position. I must take all the facts and make the decision that I believe is best based on the conditions in front of me.  Anyone reading this post is encouraged to contact me or another council member if you want to speak about this or future matters. As stated before, I do not read this board every day. If you have a concern or idea, please use one of the many channels to contact me.

Thanks,

Josh Laubach

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote angelababy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 15 2010 at 9:55pm
here we are, less than two weeks from implementing this deal and with much work already having been done, and with all of the boosters singing praises and seeming so certain what a great deal this is for our city,  would never have supported the incumbant Marconi.  must say, that with this decision, I am now regretting my support for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 3:16am
Is it just me or does each post by Josh Laubach get more and more disgusting? Who the hell does he think he is? He will never get another vote from me.

And quit lying Josh, we know you don't just stroll along this board once in a while. Get real. Nobody needs to contact you directly in order for you to know the will of the people. You're just using a BS excuse because you don't have the balls to say NO to Judy & Sam!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 4:56am
Dear regular Forum readers:
Having been properly chastised by Mr. Laubach, instead of my usual commentary upon "the workbook", I am posting an exact copy of the email that I sent to the official email address of each and every City Council member, as listed on the City website (larrym@cityofmiddletown.org, asjones@cityofmiddletown.org, tomallen@cityofmiddletown.org, asmith@cityofmiddletown.org, joshual@cityofmiddletown.org, danp@cityofmiddletown.org, billb@cityofmiddletown.org) :
 
Lady and Gentlemen of Council:

As most of you are aware, when I have the time, I go through the workbook prior to each city council meeting and post my thoughts about various items on the MiddletownUSA.com Forum for anyone who is interested to read before the council meeting.  As most of you are further aware,
I always post under my own name (Mike_Presta) to avoid the criticism that "internet crazies will say anything posting under the anonymity of an alias".  

I was not aware until a couple of hours ago that no comments would be considered by some council members unless an email message or telephone message was left at City Hall,  Hence this email.

My thoughts on one of the most important items to be decided this week, the proposed Pendleton Art Center give-away, are voluninous.  I will try to conolidate them from the nearly two weeks of posts, and send an additional email.  If I fail to get that accomplished, please be assured of my strongest opposition.

One must wonder about all of the boards and commissions and committees and blue ribbon panels and the like that our fair city likes to appoint to study things to death and to “plan” and re-plan. Then we just seem to ignore, or just do the opposite. Or do we just pick and chose and just “use” the findings to bolster whatever our so-called “movers and shakers” want to do in the first place???

Cases in point:

From the minutes of the July 15 “Master Plan Steering Committee“ (included in the workbook for the 8/17/2010 council meeting, page 92 of 182):

“A concern was expressed that companies locate to a community for the economic incentives and then later relocate to another community for additional incentives. It was noted that businesses who make more substantial investments in real property and fixed assets are less likely to relocate.”

Yet, here is a council, once again repeating the mistakes of past councils and ignoring the concerns expressed by the Master Plan Steering Committee (a committee that they, themselves, appointed) and giving a building, plus $250,000 in taxpayer-paid custom renovations, plus a $200,000 interest-free, forgivable loan to a business that cannot possibly make a return-on-investment (ROI) for over 20 years, IF the business decides to stick around that long!!!

On page 93 of the workbook, the MSPC minutes state:

“A key economic development strategy is to support the sustainability and expansion of the existing workforce. 80% of job growth is from existing businesses.”

Yet, again repeating the mistakes of past councils, this council is apparently prepared to squander not only $450,000 and a perfectly good, sound office, commercial or retail building, but also the unknown liabilities included in the mysterious, secretive, hidden Exhibits B and C (see page 130 of 182 in the workbook) on a new business run by an unknown outsider, with very little possibility of any ROI…and they are guaranteeing him a virtual monopoly to boot!!!

Also on page 93 of the workbook, the MPSC minutes state:

“The City has a strategy to recruit new businesses from targeted industries.”

IF this is true, then the ONLY “new businesses” they have ever targeted in years for the former downtown Middletown are the arts, antiques, up-scale bistro-type eateries with limited appeal to the immediate demographics. This “strategy” has been a proven failure over and over and over in promoting any sort of economic growth in this area. Yet the city has purposely and actively “discouraged” all other types of businesses from coming anywhere near what strangely seems to be treated as some sort of “sacred ground”.

On page the Master Plan Steering Committee again tries to tout “The

Middletown Promise” which, if you all will forgive my bluntness, has been proven thus far to be more of a “Middletown Moving Forward” lie. For how many years have we heard this “promise”? For how many students has this “promise” been kept? Certainly this is one aspect where cold, hard facts and figures could back up “The Promise” and shut up this critic, so what do the facts and figures say???

ANYONE???

Near the bottom of page 93 of 182 of the workbook, the minutes of the MPSC state:

“It was noted that the EPA restrictions on the expansion of the combined sewer system is blocking the development of areas in the northeast corner of the City.”

So, while the “Master Plan Steering Committee” fiddles around AGAIN with regurgitated versions of the repeatedly failed Main Street plans, and broken Middletown promises, and useless slogans, they finally mention one bit of sad TRUTH: The combined sewer system is one of our problems, and hampers our economic viability!!! BUT, do they even hint of facing that problem??? NO!!! Once again, City Hall fiddles while Middletown burns!!! “Olde Tyme Middle Towne” can make do with a combined sewer system, so they keep their heads stuck in the sand with nary a mention of seeking a solution for the problem. The new “Bright Future Middletown”??? Well, we can print that on our letterheads, while we throw our money (and our future) down the Olde Tyme sewers!!!

Next, if one looks at the “Finance Subcommittee Meeting Minutes” on page 97 of 182 of the workbook, one will see the short entry:

“Ideas on the Public Safety levy were discussed, how to approach, when to get started and who to include in the levy.”

Who would have guessed it???

Next we come to page 149 of 162 of the workbook and another tax-guzzling boondoggle, the “Main Street Program”!!!

This dodge now wants to turn itself into a “charity”!!! In a way, this is actually appropriate, because they don’t want to support themselves, yet they want everything done “their way!!” They don’t care whose property it is, or what any of the mere taxpayers think, just hand over the money, then stay away, please! As mentioned above, we have been trying, and failing, at this repeatedly for years, and tens of millions of “Olde Tyme dollars” have gone down the Olde Tyme sewers” all to no avail, but that doesn’t matter to these fanatics. They now are looking to the “Community Building Institute” (a code word for Miami University, a taxpayer supported institution) for one-third of their funds, and the Middletown taxpayers for one third of their funds. And for the “other third??? Well, they will be looking to “other financial support”??? Much of this will be taxpayer funds channeled through various agencies to look like it is NOT taxpayer funds.

Also, as usual with these groups, the main “movers and shakers” can be found in and around City Hall positions, but they deny conflicts of interest. So, this regurgitated “Main Street Program” is nothing more than another proven failure and a certain waste of taxpayer money with virtually no chance of ROI on “bagholders’ (taxpayers’) money, but also another sure delay of any possible start of real progress or renewal for the area that was once downtown Middletown.

Some city council (why not THIS city council???) MUST begin to realize that the former downtown area can NEVER begin a rebirth until we stop wasting all of our time and money on the same old failed programs over and over and over again!!! This will require a purge of City Hall of all of the obstructionists currently in residence (and their spouses or significant others).

And that brings us to page 152 of the workbook, and the absolutely Draconian, unnecessary, heavy-handed, unconstitutional “Historic Commission for the City of Middletown.”

Council members, this gang has the power to charge anyone in town with a second degree misdemeanor, fined up to seven hundred fifty dollars ($750.00) or imprisonment for not more than ninety days, or both. A separate offense shall be deemed committed each day during or on which a violation or noncompliance occurs or continues. This means that if you stand up to these screwballs for ONE WEEK, you could be on the hook for OVER $5,000.00 and over ONE YEAR in PRISON!!! And ALL of their rulings are COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE!!!

They can prevent you from modifying or upgrading your property. They can force you to, or prevent you from, selling your property based on their sole judgment, depending upon intended uses, even if such uses are completely legal!!!

They are counting on bullying you with this section of ordinances, counting upon the fact that for you to defend your inviolable private property rights under Article 1 of the Ohio Constitution, will be so expensive that you will have no choice but to accede to THEIR wishes, or more than likely, sell out cheaply to one of their “friends”. It is unconscionable that our city officials even consider this piece of legislation!!! They should disband this group immediately!!!

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 6:45am
Mike- all valid points to be answered by Council and the city leaders. Will any of them respond.....no. Will any of them take you or anyone else on this forum seriously.....no. Do they care what we think (or anyone outside the loop for that matter).....no. Are we wasting our time trying to communicate with them.... yes. They are determined to do it their way to appease the small faction of "influential" people in this town. Been that way for a long time. I was hoping things would be different with our new candidates on board. Started out ok, with Josh and A.J. and Ms. Scott-Jones asking questions and challenging the status quo, but now........perhaps the resistance has gone away. How about it councilmembers- are you still in the hunt or have you been silenced?

Josh, you appear to frequent this forum enough to keep up with the general theme here on this matter. I'm wondering what difference it makes whether we send you an E-Mail or communicate with you on this forum. Why do you find it necessary to insist that we E-Mail you? What is the difference?

We are all somewhat confused as to YOUR decision (not necessarily what your constituency wants) to vote to approve this deal. Do the majority of the people in the 3rd Ward want this to go through or is this what you want without getting a pulse from the people? Do you really believe that using taxpayer money to fund a private venture, knowing the previous history of deals like this, is a good thing for the city? What will be your response if this doesn't pan out like you and the rest of council are expecting? How will you explain your decision to the people if Verdin fails to honor his committment or the artists don't show up in numbers and the building is, once again, empty, with all the monies spent to set it up for him? Aren't you taking a big chance with the taxpayer's money? We know your viewpoint on the matter but am interested to hear how you arrived at your conclusion. If you three vote for this and this goes down in flames, be prepared for the verbal onslaught to follow. You know as well as I, it will not be delicately worded, should this fail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 7:26am
Mr.Laubaugh--I have emailed every Councilmember about this issue(response from 2) and have spoken to you often(not about this issue). I really don't have much to add beyond what I have posted here under the appropriate topics. I really don't want to bother you at home off of the clock, however you know how to reach me, and if you really want to discuss this issue, please call me.
 
This is a bad idea and a very poor deal for the taxpayer.
Make Pendleton up their stake in this project considerably. If they won't do that, then they don't want to be here that badly.
 
As I mentioned, please don't view the citizens and valuable restored public property as less than worthless. This giveaway can't be changed later. The conditions are unbelievably unfavorable to the citizens, and need to be changed by tomorrow. We know that this won't happen, so there is no other sensible choice than to kill this legislation as an emergency(as you know, it is no emergency) and re-make this whole agreement. Obvious to almost everyone to be the sensible solution. Outside of "citizen comments", there will be no public input on this issue, just as there was none allowed at the first reading two weeks ago. Why? This issue deserves long and hard debate.
 
Your current stance is contrary to everything that you campaigned about(you are being a politician now). From abuse of emergency legislation, to waste of taxpayer money and un-necessary giveaways. Not to mention a very ?able type of business and business arrangement.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 7:43am
Just a quick note:
I'm feverishly working on an email listing all the reasons (voluminous) why to vote NO!!
I'll post it after I email it.
I won't address Mr. Laubach individually, it'll be to entire council.
One aside to Mr. Laubach (maybe I'll get more respect If I call him "Mr."):
YOU were the one who introduced Messrs. Jefferson and Smith into this discussion!!!  I'd be interested in hearing ANY quotes you might be aware of wherein EITHER of those gentlemen indicate that they would vote for something such as this!!!
 
I won't hold my breath waiting for a response, I know that you're busy.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 8:53am
Below is the SECOND email that I sent to all council members this morning.
I had planned to attend the meeting tomorrow, though it sounds like it will do no good.
 
Is anyone else up to it???
 
 
Lady and gentlemen of City Council:

Please find below, a listing of reasons why you should vote against, and lobby your fellow council members to vote against, Ordinance No. O2010-53, the Pendleton Art Center Proposal, at tonight’s meeting:

  1. NO actual business plan has been presented.
  2. NO projected Return on Investment (ROI) for the taxpayers has been presented.
  3. City staff claims there has been an “extensive demographics study” performed, but no statistics of any kind were able to be presented when the EDD was questioned about the results.
  4. NO commitment of new employment has been made or included in the contract.
  5. NO commitment of a financial investment by Verdin is included in the contract.
  6. NO actual facts or statistics of any kind have been presented to council (in public).
  7. Before approval, staff owes council and council owes the public information on whether or not a $700,000 building, plus $450,000 in cash and cash equivalents has been offered to any other businesses who have wanted to come to Middletown without any real plan or commitments such as described in the six items immediately above.
  8. The “Master Plan Steering Committee“ (a committee that council itself has appointed!) has advised against such agreements:
  9. “A concern was expressed that companies locate to a community for the economic incentives and then later relocate to another community for additional incentives. It was noted that businesses who make more substantial investments in real property and fixed assets are less likely to relocate.”
  10. The “Master Plan Steering Committee“ supports that a “key economic development strategy is to support the sustainability and expansion of the existing workforce. 80% of job growth is from existing businesses.”
  11. The dreams and expectations of ancillary growth and spurring of economic activity expressed for this venture are nearly the same as those expressed for Beau Verre. Those hopes and dreams have been proven to be false, even though Beau Verre itself has been quite successful. There is absolutely nothing that makes the expectations for this outcome to be any different. NO ONE has cited facts, figures, statistics, or anything excepts hopes and dreams to provide expectations of a more favorable outcome for this venture.
  12. There is NO reason except for personal preference of those in and around City Hall for the City to have a strategy of recruiting new businesses from this targeted industry (the arts) when nearly every venture in that industry attempted here has either failed, or, at best has been self-sustaining without spawning ANY additional economic activity. MAC has not done so, Middletown Symphony has not done so, Beau Verre has not done so, Sorg Opera has not done so. Rising Phoenix has not done so., etc., etc., ad nauseum. Please explain the Obsessive/compulsive urge to continue to use taxpayer funds where all public and private attempts have failed and how this continues to be in the public interest!!!
  13. The ONLY “new businesses” that have been targeted in years for the former downtown Middletown are the arts, antiques, up-scale bistro-type eateries with limited appeal to the immediate demographics. This “strategy” has been a proven failure over and over and over in promoting any sort of economic growth in this area. Yet the city has purposely and actively “discouraged” all other types of businesses from coming anywhere near what strangely seems to be treated as some sort of “sacred ground”. What has changed suddenly to make this different??? Is this something like the “Middletown Promise” in that it does not really exist?
  14. The Mater Plan Steering Committee notes that: “the EPA restrictions on the expansion of the combined sewer system is blocking the development of areas in the northeast corner of the City.” Can these funds not be better applied towards that end? Or towards road improvements?
  15. As of Friday, 8/13/2010 (the day that the workbook was posted on the city website) Exhibits B and C remain “Not available”! I doubt that any of the legal minds on Council or on City Staff would recommend signing a contract with BLANK spaces. Yet here is a contract with KEY EXHIBITS that remain BLANK!!! It boggles the mind, and should boggle council, how an agreement could have been reached TWO WEEKS AGO. Council would be well-advised to ask themselves how this agreement between the city staff and Verdin could POSSIBLY have been reached without knowing: Developer’s final floor plan for the development of the Property by the construction of improvements thereon these shall be a part of this Agreement as shown on Exhibit B, or what the City shall necessarily repair or cause to be repaired, the items described in Exhibit “C”!!! Neither party could possibly know their liabilities. Staff is either HIDING information from Council, or is incompetent and an extreme liability to the city, and should be summarily fired in either case!!! There should be no other choice!!! They are NOT honoring their oath of employment!!!
  16. Mr. Robinette stated that PAC-M will not be competing with PAC-C because PAC-M will be drawing from a “30 mile radius.” The fact is that PAC-M is 31 miles (as the crow flies, if I may use such a low-brow term) from PAC-C. If I recall my geometry correctly, that means that 25% of their draw is EXACTLY the same, including the toney West Chester and Indian Hills areas. (Let’s hope that the rest of Mr. Robinette’s “extensive demographic studies aren’t similarly flawed.)
  17. City staff has been more than “reticent”, shall we say, to allow anything but arts-oriented businesses (include antiques in that) downtown. Council should be questioning this, in the opinion of the people, since arts have never flourished in downtown Middletown!
  18. If THIS council” repeats the mistakes of past councils it will inhibit free trade by subsidizing this one, single "packager", thereby FOREVER guaranteeing him a MONOPOLY on art studios, coffee shops, and framing stores within MILES of downtown Middletown!!! This will likely cause HIGHER prices, FEWER “artists”, LESS overall commerce downtown, and concurrently INCREASE poverty, crime, and hasten the decline of both downtown and the ENTIRE city!!
  19. The Broad Street Bash shows that Middletonians will go to the former downtown area for the right reasons. When was the last time that the “fine arts” drew 3,000 or more people downtown in one weekday night? 2,000? 1,000? “The People will return to downtown for the right reasons! We can FACTUALLY prove that, we have empirical data. Council just needs to understand that what city staff is selling “ain’t the right reason!!!”
  20. How was this PAC-M thing initiated? Was a Request for roposals/Qualifications for the utilization of up to $500,000 in available funds for bona fide downtown redevelopment made? Where was it advertised? Or was this just a “done deal” for ONE person??? If so, WHY??? Is that legal??
  21. Can anyone provide the attendance figures for the 143rd American Watercolor Society, Midwestern Exhibition, a three-week (plus) event recently held here in Middletown? This was a purported draw from the ENTIRE mid-west!! If attendance over THREE WEEKS for that wasn’t in 6 figures, how many serious art-lovers (those who will buy, not just those looking for free wine) do you REALLY think will show up every month here.
  22. Who insists on finding individuals who must be PAID to implement variations of FAILED models of business that have no record in our city of promoting economic growth, increasing local employment, or of adding to the local income tax base, and must do so using financing from taxes confiscated from the working poor and middle class with little hope of any return on such investment??
  23. If one does the math, even if this new art center achieves all that is expected, after several years, it will only be bringing between 35 to 50 visitors to town one Saturday per month. (Based on PAC-C size, numbers.) How can anyone consider this a proper use of taxpayer funds or expect it to spawn more businesses???
  24. How much “art” will our new starving artists have to sell just to pay back the taxpayers for Mr. Verdin’s $200,000 loan and $250,000 in improvements? I’ll tell you: IF they are all honest, declare ALL sales at full value as income, claim NO expenses or deductions of any kind (not even the “standard“ deduction), THEN ONLY a little over $25.7 MILLION dollars worth of art will have to be produced and sold out of the proposed PAC-Middletown for the taxpayers to get their CASH investment back!!!

Anyway, other than the above 24, I can only think of a few dozen more reasons to vote “NO” on this terrible piece of legislation, but it is way past my bedtime and I am very tired of typing.

However, I do have one question for you esteemed council members, or for city staff):

Can anyone explain to us mere citizens EXACTLY why this will be "a great thing" using actual facts and figures? That is, can anyone explain why it will be "a great thing" using ANYTHING other than wishes and dreams?

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 9:15am
Much better presentation Mr.P.
I doubt that I will attend tomorrow evening.
Outside of "Citizens' Comments", there will be no public discussion(when was public discussion on this legislation outside of on MUSA?). I'm sure that our Mayor will have his 3-minute timer for any of our comments, though Mayor Mulligan responded to my email in a very prompt,open and courteous manner. Also Ms.Scott Jones responded. Nothing from my ward Councilmember(for the 2nd time--2 different issues).
 
Though if there is a large group going down to voice their opinions, I will be there. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 9:22am
This whole approach by, I assume Judy and Kohler, boggles the mind.  This city has spent years making it tough for any existing business to survive here, from battling AK execs over income tax collection years ago, to essentially running/ignoring the AK HQ out of town, to turning down interest by viable businesses to purchase the Swallen's building, and on and on and on.  No, we wouldn't want actual businesses to stay in town and pay city income taxes, but we do want artsy businesses to open up and never have any chance of contributing to tax base.  It's as if city admin wants us to become Yellow Springs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote townemallgroupie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 9:37am

THE GROUPIE WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS:

Bring some artsy stuff to town.  You rednecks need a little a little culturing.  It can't be NASCAR and 2-for1s at Fricker's all the time, dammit!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 10:03am
Nice try groupie- actually, you can't stereotype rednecks with NASCAR anymore. The backyard, redneck, junker race cars in the old days of NASCAR (50's-60's) are a thing of the past. There's big money in NASCAR now and, like all racing, has gone upscale. (Personally, I like Mid-Ohio-Audi, Corvette, BMW, Porsche racing, not NASCAR), but it is still quite expensive to race.

2 for 1 Frickers???? Naw, don't get out much these days.

You still want the arts downtown after all of these posts and all the data and reasons why this is a bad idea? All of this is not convincing enough for you? Risking your taxpayer money on a venture like this doesn't throw up any caution flags for you? Giving Verdin a free ride on the taxpayer's back doesn't bother you? Concentration of something as insignificant as the arts when this town is on life support as to the need for the basics doesn't worry you? Mercy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 10:28am
hey groupie---how many art purchases have you made at Beau Verre?
When was the last time that you were there?
Did you support ACF ana MAMF?
What art is at Towne Mall?
 
Any report on the MAMF music fest in the former downtown area last Saturday?
Great bands and music variety.
No coverage in the MJ--no crowd estimates or reviews--no  organizational comments
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 2:18pm
From the photos on the Journal's website the ARt and Music Festival looked like a bust to me.  No more than 10 or so people in any picture.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 2:29pm
It would seem to me that getting more notoriety for taking care of existing businesses, getting serious on the sewer and street issues (what about municipal bonds?), and leveling more useless buildings to create more "shovel ready sites" would be a better approach for potential rebirth of Middletown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 2:54pm
You people have nothing better to do with your time than to complain complain complain and post your "intellectual" thoughts on here.  You give people like me the occasional laugh (which I am young by the way) because I spend the majority of my time learning from people who aren't wasting their time with silly forum posts and are actually courageous enough to help and empower young people like me and Mr. Laubach.  What a poor example you..."intellectuals" and well experienced people are for young guys like myself.  You're all a joke too me.  I'm glad I don't know you but I do learn from you and that is...what I don't want to be when I get "40 years" under my belt.

First and last post.  I have more important things to do than read your mindless negativity.   


Sal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 3:14pm
Sal, thanks for your post. I do have a question for you, and I dont care if you respond or not ( which you wont). If you are in the age range of Mr. Laubach, then you are also in my age range. So, I have to ask...do you like living in a town that has 1600 section 8 vouchers, a town that has the worst roads around. A town that has leaders that only think of what is good for them and their friends??
 
You talk about people on this site like they do not know what is happening in this town any one with half a brain can see the shape we are in. I guess you cant see it, so half a brain is what you must be missing.
 
I hope when the art center does come to the downtown area you enjoy yourself there, make sure to help the crack heads and hookers you find in that area, since you seem to care so much about our fair city.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote townemallgroupie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 4:42pm
Don't underestimate the Towne Mall.  It has something for everybody.  If you're into coins, it has "Middletown Coin Connection."  If you're into vitamins, it has "Vitamin World."  If you're into farmer's markets, it has "Farmer Frank's."  If you're into sports, it has "Dunham's Sports."  If you're into jewelry, it has "Roger's Jewelers."  If you're into nails, it has "Cincinnati Nails."  If you're into crickets, it has a "Cricket" store.  WTF else do you guys want???  The penny horse from Meijer???  Now get on over there and support the place before it has a date with a wrecking ball! 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 5:05pm
Bring on the wrecking ball!!  I want a six story office tower full of corporate headquarters....like AK, Contech, First Financial.....oh wait...on second thought....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 5:09pm
TownMall, dont forget pot holes large enough to swallow your car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:54am
Sal - you knock everyone on here for their "intellectual" comments.  Explain yours to us - you are  acting like a 12 year old.  If you want to play with the grown ups - then post your side of the debate on why you think Pendleton is great for the city.
 
Personnally I do not have a problem with the Art Center - but the deal he is getting is not right by any means.  Since you are young - go talk to some economic professors - and they will tell you this will not generate money to the city.  Nor will a monthly garage sale add business to the downtown area.   
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