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Walking the main drag of Central Avenue

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Nelson...Himself View Drop Down
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    Posted: Nov 28 2010 at 8:10am

City has high hopes for revitalization projects

Art center and Cincinnati State branch campus take more feasible approach, says mayor.

 
By Jessica Heffner, Staff Writer 1:22 AM Sunday, November 28, 2010

MIDDLETOWN — Walking the main drag of Central Avenue through the center of downtown, counting the 37 vacant storefronts that line the street, it’s hard to imagine Middletown is on its way up.............

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/city-has-high-hopes-for-revitalization-projects--1015070.html

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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2010 at 11:00am
Hmmm, this seems to be a rather bad move by Cinci state. They want to expand into Butler Cty and lease. Why pay $20 Mm to renovate, and then lease payments? Why not find the building you want, or have it built, and lease it, with no renovation? Their goal is to expand into Butler Cty? Why not target an area between West Chester and Mason? Their due diligence seems to be as bad as the city of Middletown's.
 
It looks Middleton's drive more orieneted towards protecting the historic area (didn't realize there was high demand there, as much as anything. Cinci State said it could be years before its break-even, and that's not that important?
 
Memo to Trustees of Cincinnati State: how much square ft to you need? Would it not be more economical to find or have someone build your building, which you lease after everything is new? AK left because it was too costly to maintain the renovations in their older building (paid for many years ago), and leased in West Chester, where they also avoid property taxes (another wonderful benefit of leasing). But Cincinnati State thinks its better to renovate old buikding for $20 Mm, then lease from city?
 
This is filled with so many holes, a Board of Directors on any responsible company, let along a Fortune 500, would shot it down. Really, one of the strangest "marriages" as to why I have seen. Well, O'dell will figure it out surely. As will city council.
 
Looks to be the blind leading the blind, with not even a one eyed king to be found. Good luck with this one.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SupportMiddletown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2010 at 11:25am
^If you remember, Cincinnati State is not paying the $20 million themselves. By partnering with Middletown, the city buys the land and buildings and foundations/corporations/city pays for a significant part of their renovation. They will likely get a campus much cheaper than if they built in a greenfield in the suburbs, where land is expensive and governments and foundations are not as willing to finance things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2010 at 11:26am
I have to say last year I spent 6-7 months negotiating a lease with a Middletown Landlord for 1500 sq. ft. for my Business.  After that 6-7 months I came away with a signed contract.  I wonder how long Middletown has spent on this deal?  Why does it appear that nothing is in writing, signed and binding? 
 
Also Someone please inform the Journal that there are no Loans involved with the Pendleton Art Center, "For its two major downtown projects announced in 2010, the city has promised up to $450,000 in loans and grants to the Pendleton Art Center......."  Verdin never owes the City or it's citizens a dime whether the Art center is a success or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SupportMiddletown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2010 at 2:40pm
^Not quite; Pendleton has to make it 10 years.
 
"The city is providing a $200,000 loan to the Pendletown Art Center for interior improvements through the money comes from an Urban Development Action Grant. That loan would be forgivable after 10 years of PAC operation. The city also will spend about $250,000 on repairs using money from the Downtown Improvement Fund."
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2010 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by SupportMiddletown SupportMiddletown wrote:

^Not quite; Pendleton has to make it 10 years.
 
"The city is providing a $200,000 loan to the Pendletown Art Center for interior improvements through the money comes from an Urban Development Action Grant. That loan would be forgivable after 10 years of PAC operation. The city also will spend about $250,000 on repairs using money from the Downtown Improvement Fund."
 
 
Support go back and read the Meeting minutes concerning the PAC.   I believe you will find that Landon stated the funds are forgivable over a ten year period.  When Landon was asked what if they don't make it ten years Landon said the City just gets the building back and Verdin basically walks away from the loan.  Support just because The Journal keeps spouting the same inaccurate information doesn't make it so no matter how many times they say it.
 
So technically he could open on Jan 1, 2011 and close on Jan. 2, 2011 amid not owe a dime.  Not going to happen but lasting 10 years in Middletown with 40 Artists paying $200-300.00 a month to rent space and a coffee and framing shop that is a tough way to make it in downtown Middletown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SupportMiddletown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2010 at 5:55pm
^Okay, but the city still gets a renovated building back if it fails in less than 10 years.
 
I guess it is the way you want to look at things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2010 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by SupportMiddletown SupportMiddletown wrote:

^Okay, but the city still gets a renovated building back if it fails in less than 10 years.
 
I guess it is the way you want to look at things.
 
Hahahaha....there ought to be a big demand for a building in downtown Middletown with what 100 or so car hoods hanging off it, if the PAC fails.  Although the city could give the building to Cohen Brothers for free and they could make it their world headquarters.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SupportMiddletown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2010 at 8:04pm
^Good point...and a good laugh too.
 
All-in-all, I still think this is a very fair article. It doesn't validate the city or its opponents, it just sets the scene for us all to watch the results over the coming years.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 28 2010 at 8:21pm
The article may be fair but the deal it self is not.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Let's not forget that not much has happened at PAC yet.  And the mysterious Exhibits B and C have still not yet been made public!  (One of these exhibits, I believe, outlines what THE CITY must do to the building, and $250,000 is just and ESTIMATE, not a maximum!)  Who knows for sure how much the taxpayers will have invested in this deal when all is said and done???
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For many, the lingering question becomes why does Cincinnati State want to save Middletown---to prop it up? To many, why does Middletown want to buy these buildings, to have cincinnati State downtown? Will Cincinnati State have night classes like MUM? Probably a yes. Does a student want to drive 15 minutes off town and get out of a class at 9 PM in downtown Middletown? Probably not.
 
Is this an expenditure benefitting the historic home owners, as their proprty borders the area, than the masses in the city with tax benefits? What is the calculation for tax benefits? There is no lease ready property for Cincinnati State in Butler County anywhere? Was the relationship set in motion thinking the train would bring students from Cincinnati to Middletown? Does the allure of the Manchester for State really entail a kitchen and dining room, and how much cost is involved with converting hotel rooms to classrooms?
 
One would think it would take a year feasibility study to have an architect have some idea what walls need to be taken out, to have a student center in place, a rec center, financial aid, etc. Not enough info to push this discussion any further, but far more questions than answers. Why isn't the ED in West Chester jumping in on this, or did they pass? Just fail to see the logic in Cincinnati State's decision, while seeing a vision someone at city hall has this vision for downtown Middletown being a center for art, ergo- PAC and the "destination", and an academic hub.
 
Enough said.    
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On final comment. This could be a very good move for Middletown in the following sense. If it will align its tax structure, service offerings to its residents, to go along with its appetmpt to appeal to those seeking a quality of life, this is a potential great fit. Residents love the choice of a school dedicated to specilization that doesn't take year's to get a degree, that would be State, while having MUM for the transfer to Miami, or staying in place and getting the BS/BA; same with State as its a springboard on to UC.
 
Next, if ED gets its act together, and city gets its tax and "Open for Business Theme" ready for action, all tho 'brownfields" in city could bring in targeted business, and an available workforce from the multiple programs on east end, MUM, downtown.
 
The problem will remain unfortunately, that the city will not let up on the taxes, the gouging on water bills, and pave the roads and fix infrastructure, and the other piecs of the successful puzzle just aren't there.
 
Maybe Fenwick ought to free some of their land, lease it to Nyer, and have Neyer build to spec exactly what State needs.Too bad the east end is not an indutrial park, but a moved hospital, a high school, and residential homes, as then, the marriage of strong local academics for a well trained workforce would match east end industrial jobs.
 
That's where this whole scenario falls apart. Disconnect between residential attraction and education after work, weekends, etc., and tax structure and cost to live in Middletown, cameras, water, property taxes, streets.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 29 2010 at 9:58am
I still think we have yet to hear the true bad news about what this venture is going to cost.  My guess is the bulk of that secret cost is going to be foisted up the city, not the college.  Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if this project never materializes, once all the pesky little details emerge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 29 2010 at 10:32am
Guests ,
           Your "Why" questions are right on target and your conclusion regarding the historic home owners is probably the reason there wasn't more due diligence and why we are hearing council say it is such a "high risk ". 
           Bill, you are also right, we have yet to hear the true costs. That could destroy the project in this economy.
            It is a real dichotomy. We all want to become an educational hub but we won't put our financial house in order.
            Time will tell.
             Paul Nagy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 29 2010 at 10:41am
P.S. I wish the ED or Lennie Robinson or someone would try to bring Der Dutchman to Middletown, I believe that would bring people and business to Middletown.
         pn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 29 2010 at 11:43am
Paul, don't give Robinette any ideas.  Before you know it we'll be on the hook for a free building, renovations, and forgivable "loan" for Der Dutchman!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 29 2010 at 11:52am
How about the ED calling and telling them about the 'available' for LEASING- closed Country Buffett building?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 29 2010 at 12:12pm
Bill,
     I think Guests has the answer in leasing the Country Bufet building. Interesting!
         pn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voice of Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 29 2010 at 9:59pm
A lot of people who read this site just can't wait for Cincy State to fail before it even starts.  Many of you are the epitome of naysayers who can't produce any ideas for the city. 
 
Acclaro, you in particular: 
 
"Why not target an area between West Chester and Mason?"
 
I now turn the question around and ask it of you:  Why not target (for your own residence) an area between Mason and West Chester?
 
And before you answer something about the loss you would take on the value of your home (the same tired excuse many others on here would make about why they can both complain about Middletown with every posting and also never leave the place), I offer that you can take up your own advice about the soundness of leasing.  That goes for all of you who are so fed up with Middletown as well.
 
Is it possible that Cincy State sees something in Middletown's demographic that they don't see in West Chester or Mason? 
"Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 29 2010 at 10:02pm
Agreed Der Dutchmen would be a great asset to the Country Buffet location. Said they have no interest in reopening. Probably in reality, they made money on the fire on an asset which probably breaking even. But it was popular. Maybe the same concept could be introduced, as most of what they sold was buffet style anyway, and easily duplicated. But, it won't happen. It is closed for good in Waynesville, and will never open in Middletown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 29 2010 at 10:19pm
Voice of reason, you sem to be the Protector of the great city of Middletown. Why? Lease a home like many others whom do so to overstok the market with section 8? That makes trmendous sense. Cincinnati State sees something special in mIddletown? From what I read, what they see is a decaying city, that they would like to help turn around, but won't do so at their detriment. You Pollanna's are all alike VOR, without reasoning, without fact, without logic, but beat the drum that the city has turned the corner when a 5th grader to comprehend this hasn't been thought through by either Cincinnati State nor the city of Middletown. You tell us oh great one, VOR, what makes Middletown so appealing to a college off I-75, when it is going to be 20 minutes now driving to campus? They did no due diligence. Neither did the city. But, if Cincinnati State has money to pour into the project, so be it. Highly unlikely, probably Middletown will pick up the bulk of the debt. As for leasing, moving, all the other commentary, all would like nothing more than to see success occur in Middletown, as that spells selling houses, moving, and leaving behind the mess. As to your final comment, one would assume what they see is a competitive campus called MUM, a competitive campus called Greentree, a competitive campus called Capital U., UD, Miami of West Chester, Indiana Wesylen, Phoenix, Miami Jacobs, and how many others? Hardly makes Middletown the "strategic" location does it VOR? Well, it does when you don't look at facts and objectively face reality. Let them come, if it cost Middletown $20 Mm, they'll pay it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 29 2010 at 10:57pm
Hey Voice of Reason, I don't know how many handles you have, but you need to send some time reading your own posts before stating outlandish opinions on the lack of ideas. I give ideas for a living, and I've given plenty of advice and counsel on this site. Spend some time reading than spouting out your frustration not everyone accepts facts as a few in Middletown state them to be. I also indicated many times, how highly I think of Cincinnati State, and if they want to spend money in the city, BRAVO, better to have it in the city, than the wrecking ball tearing the city down. I'll be the first to cheer the arrival of 5,000 students, a faculty exceeding 800, and the 500 families moving to the city to generate art for Middletown or because in addition to MUM< Cincinnati State is downtown. Get your facts straight before making unsubstantiated assumptions.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2010 at 5:03am
Originally posted by wrote:

Agreed Der Dutchmen would be a great asset to the Country Buffet location.
Are you crazy?  That is a terrible location, right near one of the busiest interstate interchanges in the state. Now if that building were located in more convenient downtown Middletown, it would make a lot of sense for our leaders to throw a million or two of other people's money behind a cozy wine bar or pricey bistro.  Anything, as long as they can keep the riff-raff out and make it affordable-but exclusive-for the upper crust who could really appreciate such things.
 
That's what we really need, and so what if the working class has to subsidize it?  They are used to hard times and most will never even realize that they have shouldered another burden for us, the aristocracy.  Besides, they owe us.  We run this city for them and they don't even appreciate it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voice of Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2010 at 10:02pm
Acclaro,
 
You're full of contradictions--you say you'll be the first to cheer if and when Cincy State opens up in Middletown, yet your previous post is full of reasons why they should steer clear...making you among the first to try to shoot down the idea before it even gets off the ground.  Doesn't make much sense, does it?
 
And you never answered my questions--why haven't you looked to West Chester or Mason yourself if Middletown is so decrepit? 
 
And to the guest poster,
 
Your grammar and spelling make it very difficult to understand what point you're trying to convey, but I've gather that you think I am only full of good opinions and high praise for Middletown.  You're completely wrong about this.  What I am full of is good opinion and high praise for this particular project that Cincy State is undertaking.  Let me clue you in on something--deals like this don't come along very often and when they do the city needs to pounce on them (within reason of course).  If the city spends $500K and Cincy State commits $20M (that's only their initial investment, which doesn't include the annual, ongoing economic impact that a campus might have).  I consider this arrangement to be very reasonable and worth the city's money.  Also, I was asking why Acclaro doesn't lease in West Chester or Mason, a point that you seemed to not grasp somehow with your confusing reference to "overstok" (?) in the housing market as a result of Section 8. 
 
Here's a not so subtle insight: there will be no more Armco's or Sorg Papers coming to town anymore with high wages and promise for a great expansion of a prosperous middle class.  This is a reality of the post-industrial economy we live in.  This is one of the best possible development ideas for the city in quite a while (I am struggling to think of a better one in the past 20-30 years) and a lot of people are ready to shoot it down from the get-go.
 
To illustrate my point--can anyone tell me what they believe was the best single economic development in the city in the past few decades?  Are there any that could be better than this coming down the pike? 
 
You people opposed to this need to wake up and be thankful we're not on the sidelines (as of now) on this deal.  We could very well be reading about how Cincy State is establishing a branch in Mason or West Chester, and a lot of you would be "aww-shucks" over it, complaining that the city didn't do enough to get something like that in Middletown.  This deal is about as good as it gets for Middletown right now. 
 
"Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK
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