Collective bargaining laws up for discussion

Why does everyone think the Citizen Comment portion is the be all and end all?  I'm not sure how it works, and maybe it can't be done this way, but it would be nice if council could read a selected number of emails or letters and not just have in-person comments.  Of course, the devil is in the details.

Irisner says "That is when the mind is used to decide an issue without any thought of how the answer may or may not effect the thinker".
WHAT the he-- does that mean? Poppin' the gums jibberish.

Irisner further states "You, my friend , have neither(logic nor principal I assume). you are a purely self centered person who cares nothing for reason and considers the impact on you first and foremost regardless of the overall impact".

Where in the he-- did you get that from my post? What triggered that? I asked some questions to learn from the union mentality on how their raises and benefits were handled.

You forget that with public union people, the "employer" is the city and the city is a non-money making entity financed solely through taxes-SUPPLIED BY THE TAXPAYER- In reality, you union people who work for the city have as an employer- "we the people" and "we the people" don't want you union people breaking the bank with your demands in negotiations with the city. Why do the union people get so defensive when asked to contribute to the misery of a poor economy? We in the private sector have taken layoffs, been asked to take less pay if not layed off, been asked to pay more toward our benefits, seen our employer's retirement contribution reduced, or have gotten no raise for years just to keep a job. Hell, I've been downsized three times since 1994. Why are these out-of-towners, who have no business even being involved with Middletown's business here raising hell with council? They need to stay up in Dayton and mind their own business. I'm sure Dayton has more than enough problems for them to complain about to keep them busy. Who brought these clowns here?

As I suspected, council was stunned and intimidated by the large turnout.  It would have been nice if just one on council used his time to ask why the h*ll they should kow tow to a bunch out of towners.

VietVet wrote: Irisner- I have a question for you. I'm not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to learn something from a union person as I have never worked in a union environment before. Question: (please don't answer if this gets too personal- I understand) You obviously have health, dental, probably vision and some type of retirement package, do you not? If so, what is your contribution to these programs out of your wages in percentage? If your answer is that I don't contribute anything, it is all paid for by my employer, you are already light years ahead of most of us. We are asked to contribute more as time goes by to our dental, health, vision premiums and some employers have cut way back on the amount of money they are plowing into ones retirement. That means, if we are going to have a decent 401K at the end of our working days, we will need to have more and more deducted from our pay to make up for what the employer use to put in...if we can afford to do so. Most can't as the wages aren't that terrific to dedicate a large portion to one's retirement. Question: Have you ever had a year when you got no raise? How about a .5% raise? 1% anytime? I have on several occasions during my 40+ years of working. Just the way it is in a non-union environment and there's no one to go to to "air a grievance" or bargain. You take it and go on because there is no one to listen to your dissatisfaction. OR, do the union folks usually....always get a 3 percenter every year like clockwork that is based on contract negotiations BEFORE the work is actually done rather than on contributions or merit for the year based on work that has BEEN DONE? Thanks, in advance, for your input if you choose to participate.

Thank you for asking. You show some class by asking a liget question. In all honesty, most on here just want what they want and will justify their position by any means.

Mr Nagy, you could not be more wrong. You have always seemed to be reasonable and I will assume your comments here are for being uninformed. MOST on this site are uniformed on Labor matters. Wasteful and Pacman are so out of the info loop, they might as well be 1st Graders trying to do Astro Physics.

As to the question of what I contributed from my pay. Nothing because it was a non-contributory Plan. That is something laid out by Law. It means that the Employer pays on the behalf of the Employee. Now, if you all will put your thinking caps on and forget the angry emotion you usually use to decide an issue, you will remember in Economics, the TOTAL Labor cost is what matters. If an Employer is paying x number of dollars on an Employee's behalf, guess what? The employee has LESS chance of greater raises because of that existing cost.

I tried to educate some before about total labor cost but they only want to hear what they want to hear.

Who cares if the employer pays or the employee makes MORE in pay and pays the bens themselves. What difference does it make? NONE!

As to the AK reference, you probably STILL think it was strike. Many do and are stupid for doing so. Do you know ANYTHING about the issue. Obviously not, or you would not have made the reference.

The jist of this issue is the fact that labor laws have systematically been altered in the past 25 years to be very unfair to the Worker. Companies now get better Deals with their Unions now because they can be UNFAIR. This is about the City not liking the fact the fact that disputes are decided by an Abitor and they do not have the same option of unfairness to use against the Union the way the Private Sector does.

Also, have I never had a raise? Hell yes, many Contracts. We gave BACK on one Contract and Waived raises on two others. One of the raises waived Contracts was in trade for Pension Contributions.

DUH! So I have never contributed? I have contributed a lot!

Can't wait for the movie on TV Middletown wasteful, Who did the namecalling, what did they say and how was it answered? Threats? As in personal threats at a public meeting? Need to watch one's mouth when it's public.

Did the union boys win or is it "to be continued"?

After listening to the threats by these Union Thugs I say just start the layoffs.  The unions understand one thing layoffs. Personally I found the innuendos and talking down to Mr. Laubach, the name calling and threats despicable by those, all of whom were Union members, most who do not live in Middletown, don't pay the taxes in Middletown, can't vote in Middletown, don't support Middletown in anyway and are only in this for the support of unions.

Mr. Hoffa States,

VietVet wrote: Irisner- I have a question for you. I'm not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to learn something from a union person as I have never worked in a union environment before. Question: (please don't answer if this gets too personal- I understand) You obviously have health, dental, probably vision and some type of retirement package, do you not? If so, what is your contribution to these programs out of your wages in percentage? If your answer is that I don't contribute anything, it is all paid for by my employer, you are already light years ahead of most of us. We are asked to contribute more as time goes by to our dental, health, vision premiums and some employers have cut way back on the amount of money they are plowing into ones retirement. That means, if we are going to have a decent 401K at the end of our working days, we will need to have more and more deducted from our pay to make up for what the employer use to put in...if we can afford to do so. Most can't as the wages aren't that terrific to dedicate a large portion to one's retirement. Question: Have you ever had a year when you got no raise? How about a .5% raise? 1% anytime? I have on several occasions during my 40+ years of working. Just the way it is in a non-union environment and there's no one to go to to "air a grievance" or bargain. You take it and go on because there is no one to listen to your dissatisfaction. OR, do the union folks usually....always get a 3 percenter every year like clockwork that is based on contract negotiations BEFORE the work is actually done rather than on contributions or merit for the year based on work that has BEEN DONE? Thanks, in advance, for your input if you choose to participate.

It appears Smith has removed his little union Diatribe on Facebook, either than or I am over looking it.

I really get upset when I hear some of the retired GM employees upset they now pay insurance premiums.  They were supposed to have free insurance.  They also get a Christmas bonus every year - but then I see another family member that did not make it to retirement with GM because they closed down.  Now they work a part - time job barely making it.  I work harder now and make 10k a year less - no bonus.  Unions have really hurt alot of people.  Reality is the economy can not afford to pay increases. 

I am glad that council is taking up this resolution (even if it has no real impact).  The unions have expressed their opinion, now the city government can express its opinion.  I applaud Laubach for taking this up and being willing to make a public point about the issue.