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Pioneer Cemetery |
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acclaro
MUSA Resident |
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Posted: Dec 22 2010 at 1:19pm |
The compass is pointing in the right direction Vivian.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Ahh Acclaro you have such a quick mind I can't seem to put anything over on you.
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Acclaro
MUSA Resident |
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So they do need to have the trust and $50,000. set aside. Should be a matter of public record where the $50,000. sits. Also a matter of public record when and if David Duritsh wrote the "grants" for the vault? Of course he would provide this to you upon request. And if didn't but said he did. What was the forum when he indicated he had, if he had not?
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Mtown Ya see Mtown...that would require that the City know where the empty lots are located.....ooooops.....I do believe that's another violation |
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Mtown
MUSA Resident |
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It appears you are right about the city's failure to follow 1210.01. I am uncertain if they have to maintain a trust as I don't believe there are burials there anymore or the city isn't selling plots. I don't see where (a) through (j) has a priorty of one provision vs another.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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CHAPTER 1210: HISTORIC PRESERVATION The City hereby declares as a matter of public policy that the preservation, protection, perpetuation and use of areas, places, structures, works of art or similar objects having a special historical or aesthetic interest or value are a public necessity and are required in the interest of the health, prosperity, safety and welfare of the people. (Webster Dictionary – necessity – 1. the state or fact of being inevitable or necessary. 2. something essential, esp. to existence. 3. poverty; great need. 4. compulsion.) (a) Preserve and protect the heritage of the City by delineating structures, sites and areas that reflect the City’s cultural, social, economic and architectural history; (b) Stabilize and improve property values; (c) Protect and enhance the City’s attractions to residents, tourists and visitors, and to encourage business and industry; (d) Foster civic pride in the beauty and notable accomplishments of the past; (e) Strengthen the economy of the City; (f) Protect and enhance the visual and aesthetic character, diversity and interest in the City; (g) Promote the use and preservation of historic sites and structures for the education and general welfare of the residents of the City; (h) Safeguard the property rights of the owners whose property is declared to be an historic site or is located in an area designated as an historic district; (i) Develop appropriate settings for designated historic sites or historic districts; and (j) Establish a Council on Landmarks and Historic Districts. (Ord. O91‑19, passed 3‑5‑1991) |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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I thought the new cemetery board was to have 5 members? |
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Guests
MUSA Resident |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Over the last several years the |
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Mtown
MUSA Resident |
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Interesting exhibit. And what became of the funds and were they used to make the necessary repairs?
Appears to be several violations of the city's ordinance by the city themselves. Could an impartial city council (or body) outside of Middletown be seated to evaluate what appears to be a violation of the city's 1210 ordinance? Maybe an AG question.
Should make for an interesting hearing in March with evidence the ordinance was written, the city apparently violated it, and the Kohler document makes reference to the city's obligation to maintain the cemetery with funding.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Mtown
MUSA Resident |
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Ahhh, I see a problem here. 1210.99, the continuation of a fine for $750.00 cannot continue after the initial $750.00 as it is prohibited by the 5th Amendment in the constitution. '[T]he Double Jeopardy Clause protects against three distinct abuses: [1] a second prosecution for the same offense after acquittal; [2] a second prosecution for the same offense after conviction; and [3] multiple punishments for the same offense.' U.S. v. Halper, 490 U.S. 435, 440 (1989). The good news for the city? It is just a $750.00 fine for violation of their ordinance and an unconstitutional remedy.
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Guests
MUSA Resident |
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Correction needs to be made by an earlier guest post. The Certificate of Aprropriateness is needed only, by ordinance reading, for alterations to a designated historic site, artifact, art, property, or area. Unless the post was in reference to repairing and restoring the vault, as that would be a significant modification (LOL). Well, lets see how it goes in March.
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David Boies
MUSA Resident |
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Mtown, you errored. "goof" on you. 1210.01 clearly defines the broad entities which can be considered "historical" and associated with the ordinance. The above confirms it. Exhibit A is either the boundries or the vault, but the vault would be within the boundries as defined above, and therefore, the city would have responsibilities for preservation.
Now, how do you get a fair hearing when the juror is also the defendant in violation of their own established ordinance? Who should be recused?
Perplexing, but achieveable.
Here's the ordinance for consumption- type 1210.01, and digest.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Resident |
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ORDINANCE NO. O2005-150
AN ORDINANCE DESIGNATING MIDDLETOWN CEMETERY ON FIRST AVENUE AS AN HISTORIC SITE.
WHEREAS, the City has adopted Chapter 1210 of the Codified Ordinances regarding the preservation of historic sites and areas within the City; and
WHEREAS, the Council on Landmarks and Historic Districts has advised the Director of Planning of the proposed designation of Middletown Cemetery as a historic site; and
WHEREAS, the Director of Planning has recommended that the proposed designation is consistent with the Master Plan of the City, has opined as to the effect of the proposed on the surrounding community and has recommended the proposed designation; and
WHEREAS, City Council has, in its discretion, determined not to hold public hearings on the proposed designation and is satisfied that the property designation meets the criteria set forth in Section 1210.04 of the Codified Ordinances;
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT ORDAINED, by the City Council of the City of Middletown, Butler/Warren Counties, Ohio that: Section 1
The Middletown Cemetery, more particularly described in Exhibit “A”, attached hereto and made a part hereof, is hereby designated as an historic site in accordance with Section 1210.05 of the Codified Ordinances.
Section 2
That this ordinance shall take effect and be in force from and after the earliest period allowed by law. ==============================
Please note: By posting the above I in no way intend to represent myself as an attorney. If you feel that you need legal advice just to READ, please seek same at your own expense (or, more likely for you, at taxpayer expense.)
Now, if you will excuse me, I must go study for, or at, the bar!!!
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Mtown
MUSA Resident |
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You bunch of goofs. The historic ordinance does not apply to the pioneer cemetery. The cemetery is NOT in an historic district.
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David Boies
MUSA Resident |
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Guests, I believe you'll find your math is wrong. The city is juror and defendant associated with the historic vault, cemetery, and preservation. The ordinance was established in 1991. Its over $5,000,000. in fines. Would the city fine itself $5,000,000 for not following its own ordinance, I dunno. Just kidding, the $750. daily begins after the Board decides if the city that put its members on, is not complying with 1210 as written.
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Guests
MUSA Resident |
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Mike Presta. I stand corrected. Section 1210.01 under definitions is clearly being met by the cemetery vault, and about 50% of the definitions easily of (a)-(f). Next, has a Certificate of Appropriateness been submitted?
If not, suggestion to do so. The problem will be under 1210.04, as they stack who they want on the Board/ Commission, they will rely on 1210.01 (c) heavily, and the economic value of the landmark. No slapping on the wrist, although the city is not in compliance with its ordinance under 1210.01. Same to be applied to the canal, and its "historical" significance. What will $750.00 get you today, a cup of coffee?
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Devils Advocate
MUSA Resident |
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"historical" is within the eyes of the beholder, and the beholder's perspective on cash valuation. Its not the age, the taste, the tradition, the pride, nor honor. Its within the beholder's perception of how much money can be leveraged, and by whom. That is the definition of "historical". It is like art. Each has its own "taste" and willingness to pay.
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Hermes
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637 |
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What I don't understand is why isn't the historical society helping on the cemetery situation ?? (Or are they ?)
I always thought and have experienced that the historical society makes decisions and defends what is historical.
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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Devils Advocate
MUSA Resident |
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An observation. Perry Thatcher made several million dollars. City of Middletown made tens of thousdands on taxation of PT's $ millions. City made no money off the poor souls resting in the cemetery once entombed in the vault awaiting burial. 1210 has a reference to "significance." On pertinent part it states, "those deemed to be of "significance" by the municipality herein, can appropriate funds accordingly in the manner of their choosing associated with the importance of specific structures, buildings, and assets."
No, it doesn't. But, they do. What would happen if te Manchester closed in 2010, when the city was striking the deal with State, and what would be the justification for saving The Manchester and it was nonfunctional, but not maintain the vault. Both have historic significance, both are closed. One is given hundred of thousands of dollars to save, but the other, well, those poor souls including the founders, never paid a dime to the current administration in taxation.
Wait, there it is, in a footnote. "Significance" has the following meaning:
"To be determined by the municipality."
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Guests
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Why would Cincinnati State want to pay more for leasing for "renovatins" when the renovations are really nothing more by ordinance, than "preservation" guidelines"? Would these guidelines have impacted The Manchester? is that why The Manchester was closing, associated with preservation costs? Seems as if the city is getting befuddled that The Manchester might not stay open after 2010. Would think Cincinnati State would want the lease reduced for a non functioning historically significant restaurant. That lowers lease payments. Why would the city want to tear down a non functioning restaurant and hotel, if The Manchester closed, but wanted to take down a non functioning restaurant and hotel if Manchester closes?
Will it be more cost effective for other historic buildings and owners to tear them down, than maintain them based upon the ordinance in 1210?
Someone needs to go back to the drawing board.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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It is evident that the City doesn’t even know what is historic anymore. |
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Guests
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1210 is written with great ambiquity, meaning it has many interretations of meaning. The fact the council pulled that confirms such. As it was never imposed, there is not precedent,so it could be challeneged on many fronts. How is historic site defined? Is it 1776, 1803, 1955, or 100 years old? Would a cemetrry be deemed by definition, a historic site?
What is the meaning by ordinance of "preserve." I washed down the building, and I therefore was preserving it. What paint must I use in preservation. The word "occasion" is completely misused. Occasion is used as "an opportunity", not a duty. I had the occasion to pour my self a cup of Earl Grey tea. I had the occasion to paint my pillars. but elected not to do so, as next year, the condition will be worseand the "occasion" is better to paint in better conditions.
This was a horrible ordinace, one easily challenged, which would have been overturned, and one which has limited supported in existing ORC. By its nature, one could argue the city of Middletown is historic by its founding date, and it is a site, as site is not defined, as a locale. And the city is in violation of the ordinance for lack of propermaintenance as the city has had on many occasions, the opportunity to make repair against decay and deteriation.
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Guest
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