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Teacher evaluations

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver bells Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Teacher evaluations
    Posted: Jul 30 2011 at 5:13pm

Ms. Andrew, it is a given that we have teachers who, even under superior conditions, would still be poor disciplinarians or have low expectations (often they go hand in hand). However, rather than addressing this through mentoring or, failing success at that, encouraging these teachers to move on, our past leadership has ENABLED these types and demoralized others, causing some to give up, both with discipline and expectations. It’s hard to know who fits into which peg until we have leadership that demonstrates utter commitment to raising expectations. Then no one can blame the leadership, can they?

I wasn’t a fly on the wall, but I did get a tingle up my leg when you said a main topic at your retreat was high expectations and academic rigor. Ms. Andrew, there is so much excellent information out there about how to create such a culture that I could flood this response with links and not even begin to scratch the surface. The good news is that they all share a commonality, because you’re talking about human nature, after all. You can easily google “how achieve high expectations education” or words to that effect and get great results. Here are a few that start the ball rolling. I hope you will find them useful.

http://www.greaterexpectations.org/briefing_papers/ImproveStudentLearning.html

Note the critical difference between standards and expectations in this article:

http://www.teachersmind.com/Standards.html

And this video reminds us to START EARLY, because it becomes harder every year after:

http://www.edutopia.org/high-expectations-elementary-assessment-video

Also, any teacher’s high expectations of students will be sabotaged in a system that enables and conditions its students to be low or non-performers, as has been the case in the MCSD. You will NEVER convince 100% of those in your district to raise their expectations for all, but you CAN get the majority to buy in (and 70% puts you in the winner’s corner) through philosophy, training, support and commitment. It then becomes uncomfortable for those not willing to come on board to continue in that district, especially when administrators visit and mentor them individually rather than dodging that responsibility by yelling at the faculty as a whole for the actions of those few.

Unfortunately, despite past rhetoric and touchy feely popcorn projects, MCSD administration (district and individual buildings) has NOT been supporting or insisting on teachers having high expectations. Rather, dumbing down to create a sham education and false passing have been the order of the day in the 2000s. Proof?  Compare our students’ school grades with their standardized testing scores, state and especially national.

If you have been a teacher in the MCSD with high expectations (academics, behavior, dress) for your students, you would most likely be heavily discouraged or punished and told to “overlook” consistent violations (always at a cost to you and your other students) and to remember the “backgrounds many of them come from.” If any teachers are reading this post and have had a different experience, I would love to hear about it!

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 30 2011 at 7:53am
Originally posted by Marcia Andrew Marcia Andrew wrote:

Bocephus, we do take kids and parents to court for chronic truancy, which is defined by law as 30 days or more absent in one school year. Less than that is not against the law so we can't go to court over it.  It is also not against the law to perform poorly or be disrespectful in school.  The school board can't write the laws, that's the geniuses up in Columbus.
 
I can't speak to your relatives' situation, other than to say it was obviously many years ago if the kid was sent to Garfield.
 
Im just saying that until parents get involved there won't be meaningful change no matter how many levies we pass sorry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ground swat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 9:45pm

Middletown schools begin when?  Proof is in the puddin.  Sorry, talk is cheap and back slapping ,hoping the words come true is without a doubt old news. Lets have zero phone calls to the police this year, could we try for that.  The bulk of Middletown taxpayers are doing their job, by working hard and having money removed from their pay checks every month to SUPPORT the cities school system.  Stop talking about the past and what was handed down.  Turn it around, Lead,Follow or get out of the way.  Enough with the talk.

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Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 5:49pm
Bocephus, we do take kids and parents to court for chronic truancy, which is defined by law as 30 days or more absent in one school year. Less than that is not against the law so we can't go to court over it.  It is also not against the law to perform poorly or be disrespectful in school.  The school board can't write the laws, that's the geniuses up in Columbus.
 
I can't speak to your relatives' situation, other than to say it was obviously many years ago if the kid was sent to Garfield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Marcia Andrew Marcia Andrew wrote:

Silver Bells, were you a fly on the wall in our board/director retreat this week?  Creating a culture of high expectations and academic rigor was one of the main topics.  As I appreciate your thoughtful comments on this thread, do you have any specific suggestions of what should be done to instill those high expectations?
 
You were right to call me out for over-generalizing about Garfield.  I meant that as a whole, the school was not successful.  I did not mean to imply that it didn't work for anyone, or that there were not many students who were turned around by their time at Garfield.
 
You criticize past (mostly) administrators for the environment surrounding discipline and low expectations (both as to behavior and as to academics).  I would agree that the approach of the prior administration has been proven to be a failure. Would you admit that teachers (at least some of them) bear some of the responsibility for both poor discipline and low expectations?  Because, to borrow your phrasing, we are "dead in the water" if ALL teachers do not get on board.  
 
How about a date in court for parents whos kids don't show up for school,preform poorly or act out or are disrespectful to others while in school? A relative of mine had a kid in the 9th grade that missed 58 days of school in one year mostly because he just decided he didn't want to go,how did middletown schools handle that? They offered up the garfield option he really liked that school he could show up when he wanted and got his butte kissed so he wouldn't drop out and he got to listen and play music all day.
 
In short until you find a way to get the useless parents involved our school system will never improve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 1:55pm
Acclaro, I appreciate your expression of confidence. I always thought that one person could not hold 2 elected positions at the same time, but I may be wrong.
 
I heartily agree that the school system cannot solve all of its problems on its own, due to the connections between schools and the community from which they draw their students.  My effort at trying to improve the community has been through active involvement in the United Way.  The United Way's focus is the three benchmarks for a good life and strong communities--education, income and health. The United Way coordinates, funds and monitors many charitable programs that will help students arrive in kindergarden ready to learn, instead of already behind, and to succeed in school during their school years. Of particular relevance to the struggles of the school system are the Success by Six initiative aimed at giving children the opportunity for quality pre-school, and the Dolly Parton Imagination Library, that provides any child a free book once a month from birth through age 5.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 12:22pm
After reading the responses and thorough details provided by Mr. Fiora and Ms. Andrew is such, as well as the correlation between the school performance 9or lack thereof) and the city counicl and city leadership's actions, I would like for them both to consider making  run on city council in 2011. By doing so, they would also be able to impact both city performance and accompanying performance in school results. The coorelation between positive impact of the city and gains in school testing are an absolute direct coorelation.
 
I have no idea of whether either have the time to fill both a position on council and the BOE, but they would be a welcome addition for many reasons. I trust they might consider the impact they would have in doing so.
 
Furthermore, the drop out rate in Middletown is simply unacceptable. You cannot have an 82% PASS rate, but the surrounding schools are hitting 99%. The system is not competitive. When you can't compete, you have no increase in student population. When you have 20% of stdent body dropping out, the system isn't academically challenging. Until this is fixed, there is no hope for a future. Whether the system is gaining pts in performamce measure matters not, when the indicators are only 45% of what is required, and when the surrounding communities have increased its output and remains far superior to Middletown.
 
Hence, let is hope these two BOE members will also consider running for council, as there is a direct coorelation between the city and council....and the failures of the school district.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 9:46am
Silver Bells, were you a fly on the wall in our board/director retreat this week?  Creating a culture of high expectations and academic rigor was one of the main topics.  As I appreciate your thoughtful comments on this thread, do you have any specific suggestions of what should be done to instill those high expectations?
 
You were right to call me out for over-generalizing about Garfield.  I meant that as a whole, the school was not successful.  I did not mean to imply that it didn't work for anyone, or that there were not many students who were turned around by their time at Garfield.
 
You criticize past (mostly) administrators for the environment surrounding discipline and low expectations (both as to behavior and as to academics).  I would agree that the approach of the prior administration has been proven to be a failure. Would you admit that teachers (at least some of them) bear some of the responsibility for both poor discipline and low expectations?  Because, to borrow your phrasing, we are "dead in the water" if ALL teachers do not get on board.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 3:53am

Hear, hear, Silverbells!!!  Your words ring true…we can only hope that they actually are prologue to the improvement that is possible.

However, most likely Middletonians are fed up with the broken promises of the past, and will likely wait for results before sending any more of their hard-earned money towards another levy based solely on promises or hope of improvement.

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver bells Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 10:46pm

I appreciate both Ms. Andrew’s and Mr. Fiora’s responses to concerns and questions that residents have. I respectfully disagree with Ms. Andrew’s statement that Garfield Alternative was not successful in educating those sent there or in improving the classroom environment at the high school. Since I know a handful of teachers who taught there for years, I rely on their assessment since they were in the “belly of the beast.” Many troubled students remained in school at Garfield because of the structured environment and the close relationships established with a caring faculty. Many learned something to some degree, and felt they had a safe place to come to every day. Everything is relative. These same kids would most likely have dropped out or been expelled at the high school.

As for their removal not “improving the classroom environment,” I will repeat what I have said before. It wasn’t their presence or absence that affected behavior in the classroom environment as much as a lack of consistent and appropriate disciplinary and academic standards throughout the district. When Garfield teachers returned to the high school after Garfield was shut down, they commented that the same behaviors that had brought students to Garfield were common in the main building.

It’s ironic (or maybe not so much) that Steve Price made it a point to shut down Garfield and then proceeded to put in place policies that made it almost impossible to expel or even suspend students. He trained the principals on how to keep the serious miscreants inside the corral, which was on the backs of teachers who wanted to teach and students who came to learn, all in the name of “cultural sensitivity and equity.” Do I need to spell out the results for the classroom environment?

By the way, let’s be clear that the district is NOT 100% low income urban kids, not by any stretch. Some of our kids come from middle and upper income families. We also have low income but stable families that support their children’s education. The fact that over 70% of the school district’s students are economically disadvantaged doesn’t automatically mean they can’t learn, don’t want to learn or that they come to make trouble.

And what role have administrators played in keeping our district in the basement? We had a superintendent (Price) who destroyed morale and appropriate expectations and standards during his tenure. At the high school, they had a principal who epitomized the definition of “bully,” further demoralizing and destroying any chance for achievement. These administrators ruled for years. And others like them were in place, and some still are. Now think about trying to create objective teacher evaluations under these conditions.

It took one board member, John Sauter, to step out courageously in 2009 and seek input from the district staff when he, as a relatively new member, lost all faith in Price. He clearly saw Price’s manipulative and intimidating tactics and called it for what it was. He got plenty of input. There followed the whooshing sound of the house of cards falling at the district office. Unfortunately, too many of Price’s lieutenants remained in the district to continue to poison efforts to forge ahead.

Slowly we are emerging from this dark period. We have a superintendent who is smart, articulate, and who is quick to show his appreciation for our efforts and to use two little words, “thank you,” often. His efforts to turn the ship around have been consistent and sincere.

At the high school, they have a new principal who is a veteran in the district but who has never been a part of the ugly machinations of the previous administration. Unlike the relentless negativity of the past eight years, Mrs. Cotter is positive and upbeat almost to a fault, and she has worked with the most difficult students in her role as administrator of the Success Academy, so she is neither naïve nor clueless. She has been on the battle lines right along, and sometimes at the punishing end of administrative behavior. These changes inspire hope for better things to come.

Since this thread started with comments about teacher evaluations, let me finish by quoting relevant comments made by Ms. Andrew’s in another thread about our students’ performance: “the absolute truth is that the single most predictive factor of how kids will perform on standardized tests is their socio-economic background. Generally (of course there are exceptions), if they live in a middle or upper class household, they will tend to score better than if they live in a poor household.”  

In the same thread her words echo what I have said in this forum in an earlier blog: “education is not passive. It is not the teachers’ job to pour knowledge into an empty vessel. Learning is interactive, and requires active participation from the students. Many (not all) students in our district do not put forth the required effort.” Simply, the student’s willingness to learn is the decisive factor.

However, students CAN rise above their environment and be responsible, willing learners when they are in a school culture of high expectations. That hasn’t happened yet in MCSD.

Finally, Ms. Andrew says that “The teachers union, the school board and the administration have been working together on a committee addressing discipline and safety and school climate/culture.  The committee explored many different approaches and agreed to adopt the Safe and Civil Schools/Positive Behavioral Supports approach, which each building will be implementing starting this fall.

I am happy to hear this—this committee has been “addressing discipline and safety and school climate/culture” issues for over four years (!), and this is the first result to come out of it. All I can say is that if the district again ignores the need for high expectations and standards and, as Ms. Andrew asserts, “clear, firm rules and boundaries, with clear and firm consequences if they do not follow the rules” and falls back on a touchy feely approach, we’re dead in the water. Again.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 9:58pm
Ms. Andrew states....

"My own personal opinion is that yelling and screaming at, barking orders at, and/or hitting children, is not the best way to discipline children"

Hitting....certainly no place for that. No doubt. No need for it either when people can be motivated verbally.

I would like to point out, since you are probably not familiar with the military boot camp environment, that yelling, screaming and barking orders is an effective way to motivate people and it is proven with every platoon (Army and Marines), flight (Air Force) and whatever the Navy calls their group of basic training people. It has been done with success on a repetitive basis for decades and has motivated the most extreme cases of unmotivated/undisciplined/unorganized people who have entered the programs.

The military can take 40 people, some farmers, momma's boys, tough guys, some inner city street people, people from all walks of life and all levels of wealth, and can have them all marching, eating, dressing, talking, following orders, accepting rules, sleeping at the same time, waking up at the same time, and at the end of the program, be it 6 weeks or 13 weeks, have them all interacting like a well tuned machine. The only difference here is the age level in our discussion. From my experiences in the military, a downsized dose of a boot camp environment (like the military academies) would help immensely with your discipline, behavioral issues and would incorporate the job the parents should be doing while learning in the classroom. If you saw what the drill instructors had to work with in the beginning and then saw the finished product at the end of basic, I believe you might be impressed Ms. Andrew. There are other ways beside the "kinder/gentler" approach that you seem to support. IMO, the kinder/gentler way is part of the reason we have discipline issues and people laughing at the system now. We have already been on the path you are suggesting and there is no proof that it is effective. It has actually created more discipline issues hasn't it? Time for a change, isn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sickofthebull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 1:42pm
Ms. Andrews thank you for your response. I sincerely hope that we can begin to see a serious turnaround in the behavior department in a way that helps the kids. I am aware of the Positive Behavioral Supports approach that is coming this year and have high hopes that it will help turn things around. Another hope I have is that, in the event that this does not work, there is a plan B. Middletown needs what other districts already have and that is ZERO tolerance for violence in the classroom...no excuses...same goes for chronic disruptions....they need to be put back in the hands of their parents if they can't get it right, no matter how said parents threaten lawsuits. I think that is why we have the behavior issues we didn't have the 20 or 30 years ago you mentioned. It simply wasn't tolerated in school, period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 1:27pm
Vet, I was not on the Board when Garfield was started, so I do not know how it was advertized to the public.  The Success and Freshman Academies are not a duplication of Garfield. It is true they both have the same goals (remove troublemakers and potential dropouts from main building and turn them around to successfully graduate), but they use different methods. There are many differences, but one important one is that a referral to Success or Freshman Academy is not an involuntary discipline result, the student and parent(s) must agree and make certain commitments to the program. This is a recognition that the child's family has to be involved and supportive for real results.
 
No, we do not think that the extreme offenders are devastated by being expelled. We agree that is probably exactly what they wanted.  That is why we only resort to expulsion after other consequences fail and when the student is a danger to others.
 
Sick of the Bull, I agree that we need to start in elementary school.  Some children come to school without knowing how to behave in a school environment (many more now than 20 or 30 years ago). The teachers union, the school board and the administration have been working together on a committee addressing discipline and safety and school climate/culture.  The committee explored many different approaches and agreed to adopt the Safe and Civil Schools/Positive Behavioral Supports approach, which each building will be implementing starting this fall. (Several buildings --incl. Mayfield and Rosa Parks-- started doing this on their own the last year or two, with promising results).  Basically, it involves setting firm, consistent rules and procedures and actively teaching children how to behave, with firm and clear consequences.  That should be the parents' job, not the teachers and other school staff, but it is just a reallity that many kids are not taught this outside of school.  All the adults in the building need to be consistent with their expectations.
 
My own personal opinion is that yelling and screaming at, barking orders at, and/or hitting children, is not the best way to discipline children. And actually, it teaches them a sad lesson about power and authority giving people the right to yell, scream at and physically abuse other people. But kids do need clear, firm rules and boundaries, with clear and firm consequences if they do not follow the rules.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote middletownscouter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

If Garfield was designed for "troublemakers" then why was it advertised to the public as an "alternative school designed to accomodate those students who could not learn in the standard environment provided?"

Because it sounded more PC than, "an alternative school for keeping the riff raff with no interest in learning away from the rest of the student population?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 12:35pm
Welcome to the school house emergence of "crack baby syndrome"
This is real, and will be a handfu as it works through the school/justice systemsl.
I agree that the isolation/transfer MUST occur as soon as the pattern is detected.
Concentrate on those WANTING to learn first and foremost.
Sometimes you simply can't help someone--even at a very young age
Not to stop trying--but different methods must be used imo
You must examine the out-of-class environment to evalauate your possibilities
 
not a licensed educator, however I see it and deal  with it daily.
We can do all that we can--no more
Sometimes you have to move on to a winnable project
 
weed and seed
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Just had to ask this question to Ms. Andrews....why not start where the behaviors problems are actually starting, which is at the elementary level? By the time these kids leave 5th grade, we are hearing the next year they are already getting into legal trouble, in the system if you will. There is nothing in place at the K-5 level for those children who habitually disrupt instruction and physically and verbally abuse children and teachers alike. In the past, these types of behaviors were blamed on the teacher or their "culture", what about now? Why not implement something to nip this type of behavior in the bud BEFORE they go on to middle school and maybe these kids ( a good deal of them very, very smart) would stand a chance in life? Isn't that the common denominator here? I am not talking about children who act out because they are bored. I am talking about the hard core behavior issues that will cuss you out and throw a chair at you to handle their anger. These children exist in your elementary schools in Middletown and yet it seems like it's treated like a dirty little secret. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like a military-type situation (no hands on of course) would be just the ticket. After all, the military provides structure and discipline, something that I think we can all agree is lacking with some of the children. Notice I said SOME of the children (before anyone gets their undies in a bunch). Actually, any type of system in place would be refreshing. Suspending doesn't happen much, as it brings our attendance down and gives the kids what they want, we are no longer allowed to take recess from them (and that doesn't work either) and to be honest, these kids know that truly nothing more will happen to them as their teachers can't do anything else, so why not act up? Again, this is but a handful of kids, but if you add them all up from each building then well, it isn't hard to see what happens next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 12:00pm
Ms. Andrew ...

Your words....

"Vet, a separate school for "troublemakers" has already been tried. It was Garfield Alternative. It was not successful, either in educating the "troublemakers", or improving the classroom environment for the rest of the student body. It was closed around 5 years ago"

Ahh, but a separate MILITARY ENVIRONMENT SCHOOL has not been tried, has it. You will never know until you have tried. Instead, you have estrblished another program just like the one you said was a failure at Garfield. Why?

If Garfield was designed for "troublemakers" then why was it advertised to the public as an "alternative school designed to accomodate those students who could not learn in the standard environment provided?" I explicitly remember hearing this phrase being used when Garfield was being introduced to the community. At the time, nothing in the sales pitch mentioned that this school was created where the "undesirables" were sent as it implies the school district had given up on educating them. That, in turn, would have created a firestorm within the community if that would have been mentioned.

You further state....

"It was not successful, either in educating the "troublemakers", or improving the classroom environment for the rest of the student body"

If it was not successful, why did the district duplicate the program with a new location (the Manchester building) and a new name for the same program (Freshman Academy and Success Academy). It would appear that if the intent was the same between Garfield/Freshman Academy/ and Success, and Garfield was, in your words, "not successful", the re-introduction of the same program would yield the same results.....failure.

"The most extreme offenders are expelled or sent to juvenile detention"

Do you think the most extreme offenders are devastated by being expelled? Do you really think the parents care if their kid was expelled? This is a vacation for them to run the streets during school time. Aren't the schools, by law, still obligated to educate these kids? Wouldn't a military educational experience for these hard-liners be more effective than letting them off the hook with and expulsion? It would keep them in school, and would deny giving them what they want.....being out of school.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 11:32am
I think it is ashame we have to pay for seats ran by the county.  Why aren't the parents of the kids required to pay?
 
I think more of a boot camp type program is what some of these kids need.  Sending them to a school with other troublemaker is not enough.  That is just what the want.  But strick authority is what they need.  They need to be put in their place and treated as if they were at boot camp.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 10:47am
Vet, a separate school for "troublemakers" has already been tried.  It was Garfield Alternative.  It was not successful, either in educating the "troublemakers", or improving the classroom environment for the rest of the student body. It was closed around 5 years ago.
 
MCSD currently has multiple options. There is the Freshman Academy and Success Academy at the Manchester Building. These programs are not just for "troublemakers" but also kids who do not achieve in the standard classroom.  Basically students at high risk of dropping out.  These academies focus on self-paced computer programs with classroom teachers to provide direct instruction.  There is in-school suspension, where kids who are suspended receive instruction separate from the rest of the school.  The most extreme offenders are expelled or sent to juvenile detention.  We also pay for seats in alternative programs run by the county. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 27 2011 at 8:59am

Vet - I think that is a great idea.  ClapClapClap

Troublemakers should be isolated - they bring down the whole environment around them and the good kids end up paying the price.  I would be the overall scores would raise.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 27 2011 at 6:24am
Originally posted by ground swat ground swat wrote:

Vet- It was not my intent to call you out on your opinions, I found the post about all on this site complaining rather sad and the poster IMO thinned skinned. You keep the posters informed and those that are paid by the TAXPAYERS on notice that a few do want meaningful and fiscal solutions to a very different Middletown of years ago.


ground....Thanks...I did not take it as being called out. I am very frustrated about the lack of progress and the degree to which this school district has fallen in status in the last 30+ years. Realizing many things have changed in society since the days when parents actually monitored their kids in school and busted their behinds if they got in trouble at school. The schools busted the kids behind for bad behavior. All gone now and the schools are left with an unruly, out of control environment in which to teach. What would happen, if we took the habitual troublemakers out of the classroom, realizing, by law, we still had to educate the little brats, and isolated them in another school with some hard line ex-military people as instructors and admin? That would help the mainline teachers with distractions, help the kids who wanted to learn, help the resource officers at each school, help the admin. regain control of their school.....might free up some precious classroom instructional time for test preparation. Of course, there is always the cost to consider. Opening up Verity again for this. Paying the new ex-military instructors/admin. etc. ...all costly, but would it produce better results for the mainstream part of the district if we isolated the distractions and helped the teachers in the classroom? Teachers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ground swat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 26 2011 at 5:21pm
Vet- It was not my intent to call you out on your opinions, I found the post about all on this site complaining rather sad and the poster IMO thinned skinned. You keep the posters informed and those that are paid by the TAXPAYERS on notice that a few do want meaningful and fiscal solutions to a very different Middletown of years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 26 2011 at 6:42am
ground swat writes..... "See what happens Vet when you and Randy get on here and start laying out the "Facts" LOL everyones hair starts to stiffen up on the back of their necks."

YES. I UNDERSTAND HOW SOME PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY THE LEVY BACKERS AND THE FOLKS IN THE EDUCATION BUSINESS BRISTLE AND BECOME DEFENSIVE, WHEN THE NUMBERS ARE LAID OUT IN FRONT OF THEM, THE MONEY SPENT TO REACH THE PERFOMANCE LEVEL WE ARE AT IN THIS DISTRICT IS MENTIONED, AND TAKING THE STANCE OF NOT GOING BLINDLY ALONG WITH WHAT THE SCHOOLS ARE SHOVELING AS THEY ATTEMPT TO BS THE PUBLIC WITH THE CLASSIC "WE ARE IMPROVING" MESSAGES.

THE NUMBERS ARE WHAT THEY ARE. CHECK THE NUMBERS FROM 10+ YEARS AGO AND YOU WILL FIND THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME AS TODAY'S NUMBERS.HOW LONG HAVE SOME SCHOOLS BEEN IN AW?HOW LONG HAVE SOME SCHOOLS BEEN IN ACDEMIC EMERGENCY? HOW MUCH LONGER ARE WE GOING TO SEE THE JOURNAL PUBLISH THE RESULTS OF THE SURROUNDING DISTRICTS AND FIND MIDDLETOWN AT THE BOTTOM IN ALL CATEGORIES BY A SIZABLE MARGIN? THESE ARE PUBLISHED FACTS. YET, SOME PEOPLE BECOME ANGRY WHEN YOU BRING THOSE SAME FACTS TO THEIR ATTENTION. ARE WE SUPPOSE TO IGNORE THIS DATA FOR THE SAKE OF RUFFLING SOMEONE'S FEATHERS? OR, ARE WE SUPPOSE TO KEEP THEM AT THE FOREFRONT TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE CONTINUING ISSUES THAT MUST BE CORRECTED AND THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE TAKING 30+ YEARS TO CORRECT. THAT IS MY POINT. WE HAVE NEW PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLETOWN SYSTEM. NEW SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS, A NEW SUPER, NEW TEACHERS, NEW ADMIN. SINCE THE DOWNWARD TREND ALL STARTED IN THE 70'S. HOWEVER, WE HAVE THE SAME MESSAGE COMING WITH EVERY NEW CROP OF PEOPLE THAT OCCUPY POSITIONS WITHIN THIS DISTRICT. THE PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT, BUT THE MESSAGE AND THE END RESULTS ARE THE SAME. WHEN WILL WE ALL SEE SOME REAL, MEANINGFUL UPWARD ACTIVITY? GIVEN THAT, WHAT HAVE THE RESIDENTS OF MIDDLETOWN GOTTEN FROM THEIR SCHOOLS FOR THE MONEY EXPENDED ALL THESE YEARS? THINK ABOUT IT. HAS IT BEEN A GOOD INVESTMENT FOR YOU ALL? WOULD YOU PUT MONEY IN STOCK IF THIS DISTRICT WAS A PRIVATE VENTURE ON THE STOCK MARKET, GIVEN THE PERFORMANCE, THE TURNOVER, THE REPUTATION, AND THE DOWNWARD TREND AS WE TRACK IT'S PROGRESS? JMO


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ground swat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 25 2011 at 4:54pm

Well put chmoore, and lets not get to out of hand with the numbers. 48,000 folks in town around 850 people signed up on this site (Randy correct me if i'm wrong) and I would say about 1/4 post regularly.  Comparing private sector to public is great but are the "rules" the same, I think not.  I for one am quite impressed that the Admin. cut 5mil. from the budget and didn't whine about all the services the childern wouldn't have anymore. I again won't speak for anyone on this site but if you think this is bitching you diffently don't want my childern in your classroom.  Sorry but some on this site look at the school sytem as a business (service) and we are the shareholders..  Thats how my childern are being raised, money is being spent on you and you will give 110% attention to your teachers and you will have followup with the CEO (there mother). I have posted before that many of the so called adults have flooded our system with unprepared childern and use our schools as daycare centers.  A few comments on this site shouldn't bring down the house, Mrs. Andrews certainly has know problems answering or responding to questions. See what happens Vet when you and Randy get on here and start laying out the "Facts" LOL everyones hair starts to stiffen up on the back of their necks. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 25 2011 at 1:50pm
Sick....To answer a rhetorical question: I fully understand how you can "Love it" and "be so angry about it" at the same time. It only makes sense---if you didn't love it, you wouldn't be complaining about the things that you can't change. The driving force for the last 40 years has been the societal changes as a whole: PC and tolerance on all levels have brought down discipline and expectations (e.g., the "student unrest" of the late 60's and early 70's, the relaxation of school dress codes, the disregard for school discipline, the "I'm a victim" mentality in the U.S., the MTV generation---videos that allow anything and everything, and the elimination of personal responsibility of parents and students). As I've stated in another post, school test scores---however given---have been a problem for decades. Remember, it wasn't until after WW II---"The Big One (Herbert T. Gillis)---that students had to go past the 8th grade. Before that, many kids didn't go to 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th grades. Be assured, there are many stakeholders that appreciate your efforts.   CH Moore.
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