Teacher evaluations

sickofthebull (teacher)- I understand your frustration and am glade you had the opportunity to take a well-deserved venting session.


YOU STATE.....

" My hope now is that doctors and nurses start being included in this evaluation system...you know, how many people they cure in a year, how many diseases they find a cure for, every patient who dies, take a cut in pay,etc"- UH, WAIT A MINUTE. YOU AREN'T SERIOUS WHEN COMPARING THE TEACHING OF STUDENTS TO A SITUATION OF LIFE AND DEATH ITSELF IN A MEDICAL ENVIRONMENT, ARE YOU? I WOULD GUESS THERE ARE MANY MORE THINGS OUT OF THEIR CONTROL AS TO THE DOCTORS AND MEDICAL STAFFS AS COMPARED TO THE CONTROL ONE HAS IN A CLASSROOM. THE BEHAVIOR OF THE STUDENTS AND THE DEGREE OF THEIR LEARNING CAPABILITIES ARE NO MATCH FOR THE HEALTH SITUATIONS OF SOME PATIENTS, PARTICULARLY IF THEY ARE TERMINAL AS TO THE SUCCESS OF EACH ENVIRONMENT.

"Same goes for our police officers....fail to prevent a crime, take their money" AGAIN, THE POSSIBILITY OF PREVENTING A CRIME IS MINIMAL SINCE THE POLICE USUALLY DON'T HAVE PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF THE CRIME BEING COMMITTED AND ARE NOT USUALLY GIVEN A "HEADS UP" AS TO WHERE TO BE POSITIONED TO CATCH THE CRIMINAL.


"Or better yet, why don't all us unsuccessful candidates here in Middletown go to an easier place to teach" ALWAYS WILL BE AN OPTION FOR YOU. NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU BUT YOU.

"I not only have to teach the standards, but also teach them how to dress appropriately according to the weather (because no one else is), show them how to eat at a table, buy them coats, Christmas gifts, school supplies and whatever else is needed" YOU DO HAVE TO TEACH TO STANDARDS. THAT IS YOUR JOB. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TEACH THEM HOW TO DRESS, EAT, BUY THEM COATS, GIFTS, SCHOOL SUPPLIES, ETC. THAT IS YOUR CHOICE. YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE OPTIONS OF HAVING YOUR ADMINISTRATORS CALL THE PARENTS AT HOME OR AT WORK, TELL THEM TO COME AND GET THEIR KID AND DRESS THEM, FEED THEM AND BUY THEM THESE GIFTS. YOU ALSO HAVE THE CHOICE OF INVOLVING THE LEGAL SYSTEM TO MAKE THE PARENTS COMPLY THROUGH HAULING THEIR CARASSES TO COURT, LOSING TIME AT WORK (IF THEY WORK). YOU DO THIS VOLUNTARILY AND THEN, IT APPEARS HERE, THAT YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT DOING IT. KINDA TAKES ALL THE FIRE OUT OF YOUR MESSAGE OF COMPASSION/EXTRA EFFORT FOR YOUR STUDENTS, DOESN'T IT?

THEN, YOU FOLLOW UP THIS WITH....

" I teach because I love it, I teach here because I love" WHICH IS IT? IF YOU LOVE IT WHY ARE YOU SO ANGRY ABOUT IT?

" VietVet, your military experience I am assuming you have would serve very well for our troubled kids in middle school and at the high school...walk in the door and volunteer that knowledge to those that can use it" I HAVE MENTIONED THAT THE SCHOOLS NEED THE MILITARY BASIC TRAINING APPROACH TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM STUDENTS WHO SEEM TO GIVE YOU TEACHERS CONSISTENT PROBLEMS. I WAS TOLD BY MS. ANDREW, THAT THE STATE WILL NOT ALLOW CORPORAL PUNISHMENT ANYMORE. IT WAS TAKEN OUT OF THE SCHOOLS BY YOUR VERY OWN EDUCATIONAL COMMUNITY PEOPLE. PEOPLE IN YOUR OWN VOCATION VOTED TO TAKE IT OUT OF YOUR SCHOOLS. WHEN THAT LEFT, YOU LOST CONTROL OF YOUR CLASSROOM AND THE SCHOOLS STARTED LETTING THE PARENTS PUSH THEM AROUND FOR FEAR OF LAWSUITS AGAINST THE SCHOOLS FOR TREATING "LITTLE JOHNNY" SO MEAN. BULLCRAP. WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE DONE, CAN'T BE DONE BECAUSE YOUR EDUCATION PEOPLE COWERED DOWN TO THE PARENTS YEARS AGO. I WOULD BET THAT WE COULD BRING IN SOME EX-MILITARY DI'S AND YOU WOULD HAVE NO DISCIPLINE ISSUES WITHIN A COUPLE OF MONTHS, IF NOT SOONER. "SCARED STRAIGHT". I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT, BUT IF THE SCHOOLS ARE NOT RECEPTIVE, EVERYONE IS WASTING THEIR TIME.


"Here, you are beating dead horse and come off sounding like someone who isn't happy unless he is bitching about something. I am sure my comments will bring on the bullying but I don't even care. If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. Getting on here, day after day, bitching about this person and that person only adds negativity to an already overly negative world. I do understand the frustration the community feels but there's new sheriff in town and turn around takes time, particularly when you are dealing with human beings". NOT TRYING TO BULLY, JUST TRYING TO DISCUSS THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THINGS HERE. I AM NOT PART OF A PROBLEM I DIDN'T HELP CREATE. AS PREVIOUSLY STATED, THE PROBLEM WAS CREATED WHEN YOUR SCHOOL SYSTEM PUT THE PARENTS AND THE KIDS IN CHARGE WHEN YOU GAVE UP CONTROL OF THE CLASSROOM BY ELIMINATING ALL DETERRENTS. THE PARENTS AND THE KIDS DON'T RESPECT YOUR SYSTEM NOW. I HAVE A FEELING IT IS A JOKE TO THEM. TOO KIND/TOO GENTLE. THANK YOUR STATE LEVEL LEGISLATORS AND YOUR SCHOOL BOARDS AND ADMIN. FOR CREATING THE OUT-OF-CONTROL CLASSROOMS OF TODAY.

IT TAKES TIME TO TURN THINGS AROUND YOU SAY? WE PROPERTY OWNING TAXPAYERS HAVE BEEN WAITING SINCE THE 70'S, WHEN THE SYSTEM STARTED GOING HAYWIRE. WE HAVE PASSED MANY LEVIES SINCE THEN, GIVING YOU THE MONEY YOU ASKED FOR. WE HAVE PASSED A BOND LEVY GIVING YOU 45 MILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD NEW ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS WITH ALL THE LATEST GADGETS IN THEM. AND WE STILL WAIT FOR GOOD THINGS TO HAPPEN, FOR THE SCHOOLS TO GAIN IN INDICATORS, FOR THE TEST SCORES TO RISE FROM THE BOTTOM, FOR THE SCHOOLS TO RISE FROM CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT TO AN ACCEPTABLE LEVEL OF AT LEAST AVERAGE. REALISTICALLY, WE DON'T SEE EXCELLENT OR EXCELLENT WITH DISTINCTION EVER HAPPENING.


," Also, to put it gently, THEY DON"T WANT TO COME HERE TO THE DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS" AGAIN, BLAME THE STATE LEGISLATORS, THE SCHOOL BOARD, THE ADMIN. AND DON'T FORGET, THE CITY LEADERS FOR FORCING ALL THOSE SECTION 8/LOW INCOME STEREOTYPICAL KIDS AND PARENTS WHO TRADITIONALLY DON'T VALUE EDUCATION AND GO ONLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. THEY ARE YOUR PROBLEM, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO GET ON HERE AND COMPLAIN AND WANT A BETTER EFFORT FOR THEIR MONEY EXPENDED.

"There is a stigma attached to this district that none of you seem to realize exists and no teacher can erase that with scores, that comes from the community" WE UNDERSTAND THE STIGMA ENTIRELY. DIDN'T USE TO BE A STIGMA ATTACHED TO THIS SCHOOL DISTRICT. IN THE 60'S IT WAS TOP-NOTCH AND WELL RESPECTED. THE DOWNTREND STARTED IN THE 70'S AND HAS GOTTEN PROGRESSIVELY WORSE IN THE LAST 30 YEARS. YOU ASKED FOR SUPPORT FROM THE COMMUNITY. WE GAVE YOU LEVY MONEY, NEW BUILDINGS....WHAT YOU ASKED FOR. IT HASN'T MADE A DIFFERENCE SO FAR. THAT HAS BEEN DURING THE COURSE OF OVER 30 YEARS. YES, WE ARE FRUSTRATED AND MAD AT THE APPARENT LACK OF PROGRESS AND MONEY WASTED SO FAR AS TO VALUE FOR OUR INVESTMENT. BUT, YOU KEEP ASKING FOR MORE MONEY AND NOW TALK OF A NEW HIGH SCHOOL.....AND WE CAN EXPECT WHAT......MORE OF THE SAME? BAD MONETARY INVESTMENT SO FAR.

If the teacher judging criteria is correct, Middletown teachers may be in for alot of anguish....today's Journal.....

New rules factor student success into teacher evaluations

BUTLER COUNTY — Ohio teachers will soon be evaluated in a way that departs from typical classroom observations and into the uncharted waters of rating teachers based on other factors, including student growth.

Provisions in the state budget bill call for “student academic growth” — namely test scores — to make up half of a teacher’s evaluation. The new annual reviews will allow parents and students to weigh in on teachers’ grades. Many of the rules now being developed are included in Senate Bill 5, which limits collective bargaining rights

GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE MIDD. DISTRICT'S TEST SCORES ARE NOT VERY GOOD, IN ALL GRADES, IN ALL CATEGORIES, FOR MANY YEARS NOW, AND THE FACT THAT THIS NEW EVALUATION SYSTEM MAKES UP HALF OF THE TEACHER'S EVALUATION, IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD AT THIS POINT THAT WE WILL HAVE THAT MANY SUCCESSFUL CANDIDATES, DOES IT?

Get off of your high horse, sickofthebull. Your attitude is precisely the reason that parents don't like to deal academic snobs, such as yourself.

Of course I am aware and know about the benchmark testing that occurs in Middletown Schools. My kids are well nurtured, by me. Their well-being is my top priority!. The Benchmark tests are supposed to align with the state standards. If they do, and teachers adjust their instruction according to student's weaknesses, why aren't they passing the tests? Hmmm.

I just read in the Journal that the district is expecting an increase in scores. I hope so, there is no where to go but UP. There are many other districts in Ohio with similar demographics, but their students are doing much better on tests, (See Dayton and Cinci Publics). Just go to their websites. They are already posting success. Look across the nation - You will find that students schools with the lowest economic status are doing far better than Middletown.

I'm sick and tired of Middletown teachers using excuses, blaming parents and kids for their lack of academic success. Perhaps you should open your classroom door and see what's going on (or not) throughout your school, and across the country.  

chmoore wrote: W-A-C:  Actually, the parents and students (even the taxpayers of Middletown) are stakeholders, not customers.  As stakeholders, each are in partnership with the educators to work together for better results.  Stakeholders  aren't "employers"---they are partners.  As I have stated before, I am NOT a teacher;  I, do, however, defend teachers.  Looking back on my high school days, I fell off as a junior.  I lost interest, fell behind in my schoolwork, and went from "A"s and "B"s to "C"s, "D's, and "F"s.  It was my fault.  I had the IQ (130+) to get straight "A"s but I thought it was "cooler" to get low grades.  If Kiki Demetrion hadn't given me a "D" on my final reading in Latin IV I wouldn't have graduated---Thank you, Mrs. Gordon!.  My point is, my home situation wasn't responsible ;my parents weren't responsible; my town wasn't responsible; the neighbors weren't responsible; Ms. Demetrion wasn't responsible---she wanted me to get "A"s..  I was responsible.  Today, I would be considered in the "at-risk" group, with an IEP and remedial classes, and everyone would be screaming for better teachers and accountability, and reducing their pay, and complaining how teachers hate their students.  Not much has really changed; the more they do change the more they remain the same.

Dog chasing it's tail, childern having childern, so called adults using school as a day care who couldn't balance their check book if they tried. Teachers who are burned out because of the bureaucracy and the hope of making a difference in a childs development with all the good intention.  What do they do, quit?  If your not happy about the lack of response your getting head down to the next school board meeting and demand to speak and get answers. Or head down to the Admin. offices and ask for help. Document everything, it sucks but thats the world we've allowed to have to live in.

W-A-C:  Actually, the parents and students (even the taxpayers of Middletown) are stakeholders, not customers.  As stakeholders, each are in partnership with the educators to work together for better results.  Stakeholders  aren't "employers"---they are partners.  As I have stated before, I am NOT a teacher;  I, do, however, defend teachers.  Looking back on my high school days, I fell off as a junior.  I lost interest, fell behind in my schoolwork, and went from "A"s and "B"s to "C"s, "D's, and "F"s.  It was my fault.  I had the IQ (130+) to get straight "A"s but I thought it was "cooler" to get low grades.  If Kiki Demetrion hadn't given me a "D" on my final reading in Latin IV I wouldn't have graduated---Thank you, Mrs. Gordon!.  My point is, my home situation wasn't responsible ;my parents weren't responsible; my town wasn't responsible; the neighbors weren't responsible; Ms. Demetrion wasn't responsible---she wanted me to get "A"s..  I was responsible.  Today, I would be considered in the "at-risk" group, with an IEP and remedial classes, and everyone would be screaming for better teachers and accountability, and reducing their pay, and complaining how teachers hate their students.  Not much has really changed; the more they do change the more they remain the same.

Sassy, in no way was I requesting your child's scores.  I was asking those quesions to see if you had an understanding of the data collection and progress monitoring that goes on in the district.  The fact that you became so defensive tells me you have no clue and therefore cannot speak to what is or is not being taught in the classroom or what your child is capable of througout the year.  As a teacher in the State of Ohio, I am given four books printed out by the state (your elected officials) that specifically mandates what is to be learned by the end of each and every grade.  Districts, with these MANDATED books in hand, then go on to find what they hope is the best curriculum available to teach to those standards which are then tested at the end of the year.  The benchmarks and common assessments I spoke of earlier, the ones you don't know about, are given throughout the year to monitor growth, or lack thereof.  If there isn't growth, we all adjust our instruction accordingly to accommodate those who don't get it still.  The ones who do get it suffer.  That is just a SMALL part of the process and to be honest, if you don't the process completely, how on earth can you speak on it, let alone piss and moan about it?  Just wondering....

chmoore wrote: Sassygirl: Perhaps the problem is exactly what educators have been stating nation-wide---the "state government" is dictating what the students should learn, thereby making the districts and teachers "teach to the test." Classroom teachers WANT the students to learn (why wouldn't they?); but the local school districts should know what is appropriate and necessary to teach....NOT the State or Federal government (as in Ted Kennedy). Your statement has it backwards: "If kids are not learning what the STATE wants them to know, teachers are not doing their jobs." Wrong! The LOCAL DISTRICTS should dictate what they want their students to know.   Also, it IS our business to know how your "kids did on the benchmark tests." That's why we're having this discussion post. CH Moore.

Just wondering here how the state got involved in dictating to the education people what the teaching criteria should be? Must have been a time when somebody felt something needed to be done to measure how effective educators were at relaying knowledge. Apparently, enough people were dissatisfied with the lack of progress (dumbing down of the students- employers who received the end product in the working world perhaps?) from the educators to approach the state legislators about policing the education community as to performance. There has been stories concerning the educational quality of the students sent on to the colleges. I believe I read a story a while back where Miami U. set up a freshman class remedial program to bring the incoming freshmen to the level they need them to be to start college. That doesn't bode well for the job that some school districts are doing in preparing the kids for college or to enter the work force. Employers haven't been happy with the kids that are passed on to them by the schools either. No math, reading or other communication skills have been issues. Perhaps there is a problem with the schools, the colleges, the state governments and the real world employers being on the same page as to what each wants and needs from the other. Perhaps each is doing their own thing with total disregard for the other. It might not be a bad idea for all to get together and actually institute a program that works instead of talking this thing to death. Unfortunately, it is easier to talk about a problem than it is to solve it sometimes. Solving problems requires committment, planning, agreement and implementation. No one wants the headaches in doing the right thing anymore. Too much "my way or no cooperation at all" in the mix. It remains the same failed, broken system it always has been.

TudorBrown: I am not a teacher---never have been. With your J.D. degree (Right...!) I'm sure that you live on more than $48,000, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten your "advanced degree." And your point about 38% of Ohio teachers having Master degrees is ??????   Please do me a favor.....remove the belief that I am a teacher. I may argue for them, but I've never been one. You may rely on one thing from me on this blog----I will tell you the truth....I have nothing to hide.

chmoore wrote: TudorBrown: are you serious? "Many of our teachers aren't educated enough to be educating..."? I think that "Big Brother" and its NCLB highly-qualified requirements assures that MCSD's teaching staff is highly educated. Oh, but wait, aren't you the one that's concerned that our teachers---after spending $45,000+ of their own dollars to get their Master's degrees---are paid too much? I'm sure you live on more than $48,000 a year, and I'll bet that you don't have a master's degree. Or you'll lie about it. If you do make over $48,000/yr. and have a master's degree, how about quitting your job , go back to school for another 2 years to get your Master's degree IN EDUCATION, and then teach these students? Maybe you can raise their scores---after all, you have all the answers.

I must have struck a nerve, I'm sure you're a fabulous teacher! 

I don't have a masters degree (like 38% of Ohio teachers), I have a J.D.

CHMOORE - If the problem was the state dictating what should be taught then all districts would be struggling equally. How do you explain the fact that Middletown scores are the lowest in the area. Even compared to similar demographics?

Sassygirl: Perhaps the problem is exactly what educators have been stating nation-wide---the "state government" is dictating what the students should learn, thereby making the districts and teachers "teach to the test." Classroom teachers WANT the students to learn (why wouldn't they?); but the local school districts should know what is appropriate and necessary to teach....NOT the State or Federal government (as in Ted Kennedy). Your statement has it backwards: "If kids are not learning what the STATE wants them to know, teachers are not doing their jobs." Wrong! The LOCAL DISTRICTS should dictate what they want their students to know.   Also, it IS our business to know how your "kids did on the benchmark tests." That's why we're having this discussion post. CH Moore.

VietVet
Here are my responses to teacher excuses:

The class size is too large.
Only 20 kids in my kid's class last year

The school text books aren't current.
Forget about textbooks, Hands-on learning, and the teacher, parent , student interaction  is much more effective.

The parents don't care anymore.
Obviously, I care, and so do the parents of my kids' friends.

Kids come to school unprepared with no homework done, tired, dirty, hungry, etc.
Is this a reason to not fulfill you job responsibilities as a teacher? Again, teacher, parent , student relationships are important. If teachers don't want to take the time to find out what's going on in the life of their students, they should get our of teaching. I know that there are many teachers who care about the families they work with, but just as many do not.

I didn't have time to prepare my students for the tests.
Why wouldn't teachers have time to prepare students for tests? I don't  get that!

The parents won't cooperate.
This is a good one! I offer to volunteer all of the time, but no one ever calls me to help! So I don what I can at home with my own kids. I could help many kids if teachers would let me help.

I never see the parents at parent/teacher conferences.
I missed a couple of conferences because I was sick and could not get to the school at the assigned time. I tried to reschedule, but was told, by the secretary, that conferences were over and I could not schedule another one. I left a message for the teacher to call me, but she didn't. So I called for the principal, but she didn't call me back either.

The parents won't return my calls.
This is funny. Actually, I had a conversation with Ms. Leforce at Verity about my kids problems in her class. She told me that it was my problem and I should deal with it. I called her back, but she never returned my call. The principal didn't care to call me back either.