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Candidate Debate on Section 8

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John Beagle View Drop Down
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    Posted: Oct 15 2011 at 12:46pm
Video by Randy Lewis



In this video:
MIDDLETOWN CITY MAYOR                    
Lawrence P. Mulligan, Jr.     218 S. Main St.     Middletown, Ohio 45044          
Paul Nagy     1325 Orchard St.     Middletown, Ohio 45044          
MIDDLETOWN CITY COUNCIL AT LARGE - (2 to be elected)               
Eddie Todd Moore     2469 Wilbraham Rd.     Middletown, Ohio 45042          
Daniel J. Picard     2804 Sherman Ave.     Middletown, Ohio 45044          
Anita Scott Jones     4806 Central Ave.     Middletown, Ohio 45044          
Nick R. Kidd     3400 Tytus Ave.     Middletown, Ohio 45042          
Joseph H. Mulligan     501 Ross St.     Middletown, Ohio 45044
John Beagle

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etmoore View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote etmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 15 2011 at 3:42pm

Section 8 Housing Reform

I’m writing to clarify my position on HUD’s Section 8 Voucher Program.  As many of you know, over the last few years Council expanded the program.  Each year through the grant writing process, Council asked for more vouchers and the money followed.  Now that we have expanded the program, we cannot send the money back.  No one can reasonable argue that we can send the program back to Washington, D.C. or that we can give it to Butler County—it doesn’t work that way.  Once a municipality has planned for expansion and asked for funds, approved section 8 landlords, and taken administrative dollars, we must administer the program.  Also, once landlords are approved locally, even if the program were administered by Butler County or a housing consortium, we would still have all section 8 homes concentrated here. So we must take control of the housing program and reform our approach. 

Admittedly, my comments seemed optimistic about HUD.  But let me explain.  As a professional grant writer, I see HUD as a tremendous source of federal funding for our city.  In fact, without HUD we would have no community development dollars (CDGB grants), no funds for housing construction, rehabilitation, demolition, or economic development. Without HUD funding our city would be bankrupt.  What I intended to say, before my time expired, was that I want to help us raise money and work to find additional dollars for the city.  For example, HUD provides grants which would help us restore the Manchester Building, improve road construction, façade renovation for blighted buildings, and dollars for improving the city’s image.  HUD is a much broader source of federal funding than the Section 8 voucher program. 

In short, my intention was to explain how to use HUD as a source of funding for economic development dollars—not as an expansion of the Section 8 Voucher Program.  So let me be clear: No more Section 8 vouchers for Middletown. It's that simple. If you have any questions for me regarding HUD's Section 8 Voucher Program let me know. I value your opinion and want to make certain that I have given no wrong impressions. For more than 8 months, I've argued against the Section 8 Program and its wreckless expansion. I want to improve our city's image, strengthen public safety, and help create jobs and economic development. Please review my full record as a candidate and consider me for Council.

Respectfully,

Todd Moore

Middletown City Council Candidate, At-large

votetoddmoore.com

facebook.com/votetoddmoore

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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 15 2011 at 5:28pm
As I am between half time with OSU and Illinois, I will pop in and add the following. The debates unfortunately, accomplish so little in a local election. Voters at a municipal level are elected 99.9% of the time, by name recognition, not an issue, and on the issues, 99.9% of the time, there is limited disagreement. The section 8 program echoes such harsh reality.
 
The real question to be asked was why on earth, including city council members going on four terms, allow these vouchers to come into Middletown in such high volume. The answer is, as most know, counci at the time, had no idea what they were requesting them. The proper question should have been---should there be term limits on city council members and school board members, as many have no idea what they are doing, what they are voting on, and the ramifications. Sch is the case with section 8.
 
It would appear to me that the debate sparked no noticeable difference among most candidates. The one exception on this issue was two fold. First, I thought Mr. Mulligan was quite insightful when he said an Iowa municipality reduced vouchers 10% a month, over many months, so that demonstrates they can indeed, be reduced. Secondly, although off topic, Nick Kidd made an asute observation. If the city were to raise the number of positions available for work in the private or public sector, less people would be inclined to qualify for Section 8 vouchers, although one could argue, in the event jobs were available, would such a high % of vouchers actually de-motivate potential workers to find work. That is the argument many politicians use for not extending unemployment benefits, as it a catalyst for those to not seek employment, and there seems to be statistical data supporting that notion.
 
It appeared when evaluating Mr. Picard's comments about the difficulty of eliminating section 8 vouchers with the facts offered by Mr. Mulligan, there was significant contradiction,  as a 10% monthly reduction is significant. As importantly, the real issue is the dire consequences by council for being "brain dead" on this issue when all the vouchers were consumed. Its impact seems to be within the school system, and perhaps crime---and the city's terrible reputation.
 
My own opinion is a city nor municipality should rely heavily upon federal nor state funding for much of anything, but is made better by its own leadership, vision, and solvency, which in Middletown, has been a dismal failure for at least four decades.
 
The Wall Street protest is nothing more than George Soros helping Obama create a "tea party" effect, trying to regain Obama's appeal for the younger voters he had in 2008. It isn't working, they have only one mission, to fire up the democratic base, and lack a coherent message. Soros and Obama are behind it, and the suckers that have nothing more to do with their time, swallowed the bait, and many, are getting paid to protest. Call it "Acorn" in sheep's clothing.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 15 2011 at 6:16pm
Mr. Moore...

With all due respect, I will disagree with you on the need to use HUD money in this town, welcoming gov. fed money and inviting major fed help for our city revenue. I want to see LESS reliance on fed money, LESS Section 8 intrusion on this town, and MORE emphasis on this city pulling it's head out of it's a-- and implementing a serious program for job attraction, which will create more corporate and payroll taxes, which will be a substitute for the dam fed money now used for the city's revenue. When you accept fed money, you do it for a price. The price paid by this city is our low income, ghetto reputation, higher concentrated crime and we are forced to take as many Section 8 as HUD has forced upon us. This is a high price to pay, dragging the city through the mud for decades, just to have operational money in lieu of income from jobs. I want the feds to go away, I want the city to stand by itself for a change and I want to see this town help itself instead of looking for handouts all the time. The way it is being run now is disgusting IMO. Time to reduce the section 8, legally, and take the voucher number down to coincide with out city population....at last count approx. 700 in number max. You will meet resistance from the Picards and MMF people. They have friends who are section 8 recipient landlords and are benefiting from this program. That's another reason why Picard and those like him must go......now. They are self-indulgent at the expense of the welfare of this city.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote etmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 15 2011 at 7:30pm

VietVet,

I understand your frustration with HUD.  In your post you said, "...we are forced to take as many Section 8 (vouchers) as HUD has forced upon us."  But we were never “forced” to take Section 8 vouchers.  Our city administration asked for the money and was given the money by HUD.  Our city administration would like to frame the Section 8 issue as you have described it—to make folks believe we were “forced” to take funding.  City leaders irresponsible expanded the program through the planning process. Now we as a city are left with a messy housing program that needs significant reform. If you listen to my comments you will hear that I argued against the city’s expansion of section 8 and against the claim that section 8 was “forced” on us.  Some even argue that our “hands were tied” regarding the section 8 program—not true.  We asked for it. Now we got to manage the problem. 

I look forward to your comments. 

Thanks,

Todd

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 15 2011 at 8:24pm
Mr. Moore...

Bottom line...

I want as much section 8, HUD ghetto, slum landlord people out of my hometown as is possible. I want the city to be less reliant on government programs and I want to feds to shove their money..... and I want this city to be employed with decent paying jobs as soon as possible. I want to see some job creation action out of the, to date, seemingly worthless econ. devel. dept. and I want a new council with a new agenda seated asap who will adopt a totally different direction than the road we have been traveling down the last 25 years. I'm sick of the crap laid on the people by the control of a few people in this town. I'm sick of this city manager and her little posse who have absolutely ruined this frikkin' city. After the new council is seated, and we have diluted the MMF stranglehold on the city, I want to see as a primary objective for the new council, the termination of the city manager and certain director level people in the city building. That's my frustration about the whole chain of events that have occurred in the last 30+ years.

I will rephrase the comment ...we are forced to take as many Section 8 (vouchers) as HUD has forced upon us." Should have read....the general population of this city are forced to endure as many section 8 people as the city leaders volunteered us for, without a voice in any resistance to the idea, resulting in making this city less desirable to live in, increasing the crime rate, lowering our property values, straining our police resources and making Middletown the low income, ghetto capital of SW Ohio. The current city leaders who agreed to this, as well as past leaders, have no class, character nor scruples in regard to the decisions made concerning this topic and as Mulligan once said, they need to leave this town as they have severely damaged it with their actions. Mulligan and others, have been around here as long as I have and they should be ashamed of themselves for what they have done to this town.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ground swat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 15 2011 at 9:04pm
If you offer it and provide it, they will come.  I believe Pacman hit it on the mark for me- Hello John may I have a word?  All in D.C. need a to come down off the Mountain and hang with the common folk.  CK on the goverment employees down line once in a while, do you need all those mid-level Managers. It is local Vet, at least it should be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2011 at 8:38am
gs, John Boehner would have no influence in the city affair and more importantly, the city doesn't really want to diminish the vouchers. Look at the fed funding as Mr. Moore eluded. It gives Doug Adkins his job as Community Revitalization Director, while living in Mason, all the while crashing Middletown's reputation by % of poverty, and doing all possible to get more funding to exploiting economic plight.
 
I think many are at the point of not seeing the forest for the trees. The Titantic has sinking, the boat is at a steep angle, Its everyone for himself. Did anyone read the Jouranl and its coverage of the candidates? Larry Mulligan states there are alot of people who want downtown to come back, and money to be put in it? Who? Only those who live on Main Street, Larry Mulligan, his neighbors, his parents, and probably Joe, his brother and family.
 
The Titantic is going down, the Captain has whistled, and its every man for himself., That includes Section 8, because it provides purge (filling) of some housing stock, money for friends of Middletown, and because of ignorant and incomprehensible poor decisions from previous council members. It has had a negative impact upon the school performance, and I'm using the commentary directly from those who know it, school board members. This isn't John Boehner's problem, this is the citizens of Middletown being screwed right and left, by those fending only for themselves, and have been for years. Do you honestly believe the masses (majority) in Middletown want and expect downtown Middletown to be restored and a haven for growth? Give me a break.
 
We've been sold out, and dummy outed. My God, look at the candidates comments. Dan Piacrd wants public safety when all Ohio is voting on Issue 2, yes/no. The best paid and top 1% of wage earners in Middletown, are public city servants, that is a fact! Ann Mort is indicating she gets the streets paved for those she speaks with in ward 1, by calling the city. Are they not calling the city and taking advantage of that wonderful program  where the city floats the money over a few years to pay to have your street redone---the city isn't going to spend it otherwise.
 
And Mr. Nagy, a bright man, very articulate. By reading the Journal article, he is running only because he doesn't want Larry Mulligan to be unseated. Not that there is a failure to regognize the mass number of problems confronting the city.
 
Its all men, women, and child, out for themselves. What no one gets is MMF figured this out about 7 years ago, and have hustled to get the life boats and they decide who gets saved. Ground swat asked whom ran Middletown, who spoke for it? That's an easy question to answer---MMF---the ones that know and "leverage" (where and whom used that word so much for listing accomplishments---surprise- Larry Mulligan- "leverage fed money", "leverage state money". And that is an accomplishment?
 
Residents, you are dead, you just don't know it. You are in deep water, the nearest boat steaming four hours away, and you are in freezing water. You gaze for life boats, wood anything, and one day, you'' realize they are all filled with MMF and its first class companions, while you are left to tread water for a few minutes before the cold plunges you under.
 
All men are out for themselves, not you. You are awaiting a lifeline----that will NEVER be thrown.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2011 at 9:04am

Acclaro - The real question to be asked was why on earth, including city council members going on four terms, allow these vouchers to come into Middletown in such high volume. The answer is, as most know, counci at the time, had no idea what they were requesting them. The proper question should have been---should there be term limits on city council members and school board members, as many have no idea what they are doing, what they are voting on, and the ramifications. Such is the case with section 8.

Acclaro - I believe they did know what they were doing. They needed to increase the population and fill the housing stock. They also needed more children so they could build the new schools. I think two terms on City Council should be the limit

 

Acclaro - The one exception on this issue was two fold. First, I thought Mr. Mulligan was quite insightful when he said an Iowa municipality reduced vouchers 10% a month, over many months, so that demonstrates they can indeed, be reduced.

Acclaro, please remember that only a handful of cities in the US administer their own Section 8 Program so before I could except this statement as fact I would need to do the research. Mr. Mulligan needs to provide us with more information on this Iowa town.

Acclaro - Nick Kidd made an asute observation. If the city were to raise the number of positions available for work in the private or public sector, less people would be inclined to qualify for Section 8 vouchers

Acclaro, many of those on the Section 8 program do have jobs however their income will not support their families. I know one family on Section 8 that pay a % of their rent because their child has a terrible medical condition. We need better paying jobs in Middletown not more service jobs at minimum pay.

Acclaro - It appeared when evaluating Mr. Picard's comments about the difficulty of eliminating section 8 vouchers with the facts offered by Mr. Mulligan, there was significant contradiction,  as a 10% monthly reduction is significant. As importantly, the real issue is the dire consequences by council for being "brain dead" on this issue when all the vouchers were consumed. Its impact seems to be within the school system, and perhaps crime---and the city's terrible reputation.

Acclaro, I believe Mr. Picard has now seen the truth of what happened in the past and now fully understands the dire results of past council actions. So we are now between the rock and the hard place….and I believe Mr. Moore is on the right track to help solve this problem.

Acclaro  - My own opinion is a city nor municipality should rely heavily upon federal nor state funding for much of anything, but is made better by its own leadership, vision, and solvency, which in Middletown, has been a dismal failure for at least four decades.

Acclaro, over the years we have used MILLIONS OF HUD DOLLARS here in Middletown. The real question is did we get the biggest bang for the bucks? Did we use the money to help solve the real problems of our community or pet projects? Don’t forget that until a few years ago the CDBG money was earmarked for the 1st and 2nd Wards. Take a look at the 1st and 2nd Wards today and tell me where all the money went….
…and then two years ago City Council voted to allow Mr. Adkins to use CDBG fund all over Middletown under the 54% rule….
The HUD funds are to be used to help the high poverty and crime areas. If council really wanted to solve these problems…Why did they remove the funding for the very areas that needed it most?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2011 at 10:53am
Acclaro,
      "
     "And Mr. Nagy, a bright man, very articulate. By reading the Journal article, he is running only because he doesn't want Larry Mulligan to be unseated. Not that there is a failure to regognize the mass number of problems confronting the city."
 
     That  article is the Journal's interpretation of what I said in about a thirty minute phone interview. I of course talked about the inefficiency of the Mayor and all of the issues in detail. Do you have any doubt upon reading the article that it is slanted?  In the strange time format that doesn't allow time to answer, doesn't it become apparent that I am anxious to discuss the details of every issue and the Mayor' s record and removal? Of course I am.
 
      I want to suggest to all in the city that I am making every effort to discuss Larry Mulligans lack of accomplishment and all of the issues and getting them on the table. However, let me assure you that Middletown Moving Forward has already decided to prevent exposure to anyone or anyones ideas that differs or critizes their viewpoint. There is less exposure to the public in this election than any election in our time.
 
      Give me your vote and we will bring businesses jobs, people and have a safe and secure city. We will reduce Section 8 fast and straighten our finances out and make them transparent.
 
       Thanks.
 
           pn
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2011 at 11:59am
Mr. Nagy, of course I realize the slanting of the article, the focus upon Mr. Mulligan's active community service and volunteerim, and their represenation of you as having done nothing in that regard, under their cloak of "independence." What was particularly harmful was the focus upon you were running as Mr. Mulligan had no competition, a challenger, rather than the points made in your discussion. All candidates came across as offering little, but that is the norm for the Journal, give limited fact, substance, and add humor, I did like the "mulligan" use, and I usually request at least 3-4 when I play my eighteen holes.
 
Vivian, I can only rely upon what council said at the time---that when they questioned city leadership whom authorized all those vouchers, they were shocked with the response---"you did." Perhaps it is a catch 22 with the schools, a willingness to fill seats, but be penalized by bad performance by those sitting in those filled seats. If the school board was aware and accepted this notion better to fill seats but face the consequence of a CI school district, we again have been sold out and inflicted by the leadership whom we elect, many never running with opposition nor threat. Recall also, Middletown's take is 10% I believe from the pot, for helping in the administration oversight. That motivates them to have more vouchers, not less, just like utility companies make more from having higher overhead, because the % taken from the big pot, is a bigger number.
 
This picture just does not get better. My bigger message, if I may, was not section 8 was the only problem, rather, this town is driven by those taking care of themselves, and as an outcome, the majority are getting the shaft. Jobs, new residents, and economic recovery does not come when a city is constantly shafting its citizens (raising a light charge on a bill already paid city to generate $750 Kk- I think not  Middletown), and using money to protect certain ares in town while neglecting the majority of other areas.
 
The wrong time in Middletown's history, to be riding on the Titantic and the Captain and first officers are jumping head first into the life boats, while the majority listen to the music playing on deck..     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ground swat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2011 at 8:40pm
Ms. Moon I appauld your time and focus on looking at the talking points I on the other hand can only say it starts at the local level (Most of the time).  If the Feds continue to offer OUR money to the states and down the line I am one that believes you cut the head off the beast.  Acclaro all I can say is I'm stiil a believer in making phone calls and calling out OUR elected officials.  It's just I dream but thats all I know when working with our system at this time. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 17 2011 at 8:04am

If only we had a magic wand...but we don't.

We need to spend the HUD funding more wisly to help correct this problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMAO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 17 2011 at 11:46am
Its plain and simple.Section 8 housing is just no good for Middletucky.If its a must they need to hire more investigators to go in and make sure the people are going by the law.
My oldest brother decided to rent his home to a person on section 8 and come to find out the girl has moved in her mother,her mothers boyfriend and her boyfriend.The lease strictly said he is renting it to her and her 2 kids.Now he is having to go through HELL to get them out.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 17 2011 at 2:31pm
Mr. Gordon....how do you think the forum went the other night? Would have like to have been there but needs at home take priority. Would you change anything in how the forum was presented? Do you think everyone had a fair chance to answer? Just curious.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DuaneGordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 17 2011 at 4:49pm
Vet, for the most part I thought it went well.
 
I was disappointed in the lack of questions submitted in advance (I think we ended up with 4 people sending them in -- three of whom submitted multiple questions, so there ended up being about 40 total to choose from -- but I would have liked to have heard from more voters about what was on their minds) and the lack of attendance at the forum itself (just about 12 or 15 people, only four of whom submitted questions that evening). I also would have liked for those who asked questions that night to have gotten up and asked them themselves -- I offered that to each one of them, but they all declined and instead opted to have me read their questions. We did have several other great questions I would have liked to have gotten to but we didn't have time in just 90 minutes. TV Middletown had originally suggested 60 minutes, but I felt that was too little time and got them to dedicate 90 minutes to it instead.
 
It was quite difficult to give everyone a long enough time frame to provide an answer. Some questions you could easily answer in 60 seconds, others were a bit more difficult to do so, but I did the math in advance, and with nine candidates I felt that was the maximum time we could give and still believe that for a 90-minute forum this was the maximum time to get to the minimum number of questions. If, for instance, it were only a forum for the five at-large candidates, then we could have at least expanded it to 90 seconds, maybe even two minutes. So if we do this in the future, I'd look at us finding a way to have fewer candidates in each forum so that they could be given more time to respond. If I had it to do over, I think I would have asked TV Middletown if we could have split it into two separate forums -- one for mayor and ward 1, and one for at-large -- so we could give everyone more time by having fewer people there at once.
 
But to answer your specific question, I think everyone literally "had a fair chance to answer" because they were all subject to that same time limit. They were all warned when they had 15 seconds left. And they were all hushed with a "thank you" if they went more than one or two seconds over their 60-second limit. We also made it through the entire panel in who got to go first so that everyone got first shot on one question each (which is both an advantage and disadvantage -- good because you get to give your idea before anyone else so that you don't sound like you're repeating what one of the other candidates said, but bad because you have the least amount of time to formulate an answer in your head before you speak). So everyone was treated the same in those respects.
 
Hopefully, it gives the candidates exposure and lets voters get to know them a bit better so they make informed decisions at the polls. TV Middletown is repeating it every day this week, sometimes twice a day, and I believe they plan to continue repeating it pretty regularly between now and the election.
 
I'm hoping to get down to the community center for their forum to see what method they use and how well it works tonight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DuaneGordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 17 2011 at 4:50pm
P.S. Please just call me Duane. No need for the "Mr."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DuaneGordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 17 2011 at 4:54pm
Oops! See a line got cut off on my post. I meant to say in the fair chance part that they each got hushed when they reached 60 seconds and they each had a chance to have first shot at answering a question, but I accidentally deleted those parts!
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Thanks for your efforts Duane.
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