Property registration proposal

Mr. Goose:While I don't mean to answer for Ms. Moon, I would like to speak to the points numbered in your post.Your item 1: Our city's leaders are not supposed to put "spin" on projects.  They are supposed to tell the truth.  It is certainly not understandable that they mislead us, nor is it expected.  It is, in fact, deplorable that they do so.  If they cannot be honest, they should quit, be fired, or be prosecuted.
I would sooner follow a general into battle that honestly told me that the odds were 100 to 1 against us, than a general that told me that the odds were in our favor when any moron could plainly see that the odds were 100 to 1 against us.  Didn't you learn anything from the Revolutionary War, the assault on Normandy, the Alamo?  Did the leaders in those (and similar) conflicts tell their "troops" that the odds were in their favor?  In contrast, consider how Der Fuehrer kept telling his troops that the odds were in their favor.  How did that work out for him?It is interesting that you believe that is is correct for our city's leaders to "spin," that is, lie to or mislead us.  It makes me wonder why I should even bother to answer the remaining points of your post.
If you believe that it is okay for our leaders to deceive us, why should we believe anything that you have to say?  Won't anything that you write just be "spin" as well?
I have logical, well-reasoned replies to each of your other points, but why bother typing them out?  Why should I earnestly try to rebut your "spin" with sincere logic and reason.You, Sir, are obviously nothing more than a cheap tout.  You are simply someone out to "spin" for the "spinners."I shan't waste any more time on you.

greygoose 4. I don't see $25.00 per mailbox putting any landlord out of business unless they are already headed that way. Don't get me wrong; I don't like the added expense, but will support it if it benefits the city as a whole. Quite frankly, much of my support for the registration program is the hope that it will help reduce the number of sustainable rental units toward the 3,600 goal. To date, my support for Mr. Adkins is due to his recognition that the city has too many rentals and reducing that number is a primary objective of his (that's why I would like more info on the proposed 216 new units). MR/Mrs/Miss Goose....Why should us landlords have to give our lieing,cheating crooks of a council 25 bucks to register our properties when  they are already registered in the County?As some has mentioned on here,they have lost the respect of alot of citizens for their lieing on certain things and before you ask what do your own research since you think you know it all.

I'm not surprised at all.  Just look who is posting.

Ok greygoose, I'll make an attempt here, albeit civil, to provide my input since you asked for it in your post from people on this forum.

greygoose-"City leaders should possess "leadership" skills (leadership is a process by which a person influences others"

Unfortunately, very few past and current city leaders have demonstrated leadership skills. Few have had a vision, game plan or offered any positive direction for this city. Past embarassments such as the City Centre Mall, Lake Middletown and the Bicentennial Commons, as well as the once all important East End, now taking a backseat to the downtown area, have hurt the city and contributed to the lack of trust from what I believe to be the majority of the citizens. IMO, we have no dynamic leaders who possess any common sense whatsoever nowadays. There is a game they are playing in this town. It is a game of exclusion for the majority of us. Attention seems to be directed to a few of their friends, who they seem to bend over backwards to please. I have lived here since 1948 and have seen it all. Good times and bad. Since the 70's we have been in a downward spiral as to city growth, econ. development and clear path thinking which has resulted in what we have now. Stagnation, mis-focus, little hope in the job market, little hope for the people raising their standard of living and little trust in our city government.

I agree with you that the dynamics of the city are changing. Started in the 70's with AK (always Armco to me) downsized from the 9000+ working in the 60's to ~ 3000 today. Like the town, AK is a shadow of it's former self. Paper mills all gone. Town looks deserted/desolate and ghostly. People were proud to live here in the 50's and 60's. Now, not so sure. Has become a joke to neighboring communities and known for it's inept "can't seem to get anything done correctly" thinking. While Springboro, West Chester and Mason were cow pastures when I was young, they have now bypassed Middletown and have exploded with growth while Middletown was treading water or sinking into the abyss.....all being allowed to happen by the past/present leaders. Sad for me to watch, knowing what this city used to be.

You need to understand that some of us have a basis of comparison. We were here when times were good and the town was a GREAT place to raise a family, had ample employment in the good job category, run with some degree of competency/trust, people didn't feel excluded from the operation of their own town and we were proud of our town. Now......

ground swat wrote: Heres a simple question- how many out there in MUSA land have every worked for or with the city leadership specifically the city manager??

greygoose wrote: Swat, I've never had any personal dealings with any of the council members, but have had plenty of interaction with the City Manager, the Community Revitalization Director, and the former Economic Development Director. My interaction with these folks have definitely helped shape my current opinion of city leadership; an opinion that continues to evolve.

LMAO,

I put it out there because I inferred from your prior post that meeting with a city official was "out of line". Imply what you wish; if you conduct business in a city over a span of years, it is not "unusual" to communicate with some of its leaders.

Greygoose - I've never had any personal dealings with any of the council members, but have had plenty of interaction with the City Manager, the Community Revitalization Director, and the former Economic Development Director. My interaction with these folks have definitely helped shape my current opinion of city leadership; an opinion that continues to evolve.

Greygoose
  If you know the City Manager, Community Revitalization Director, and the former Economic Development Director then you should already have the answers to all your questions because these were the people involved in the majority of the hot button issues discussed on this blog.
  If you had watched every City Council Meeting and Planning Meeting over the years maybe you would have a far different opinion of the issues and the people involved.
  This City does not need more rules, regulation, fines, taxes or power over private property. It is the City’s need for absolute power that has strangled the business community to death in this town. This is not a business friendly town. 
      

Vet,

I have three questions (and a couple of questions within a question):

1. You view current city leaders with the same esteem as our "failed" leaders from the past. Can you honestly state that its not "guilt by association"? If so, is it the council or the administrative leaders that you dislike? I understand your broad viewpoint; can you give me a couple of specific examples of poor or "shady" decisions and by whom?

2. Would you agree that much of the growth seen by our neighbors can be attributed to nothing more than the fact that they had undeveloped acreage available? If you agree; was the available undeveloped acreage more attributable to their growth than the decisions made by their leadership?

3. "Why" do you think that our leadership is so focused on developing the downtown area? Is it the geography or the type of development that they have in mind that you object to? Do you think that the city purchased downtown properties so that they could dictate the type of development that occured?

Remember, I'm just asking questions. I'll share my thoughts later.

why in the heck are you so grouchy vivian (full) moon?

greygoose. You ask, I respond.

1. Not guilt by association at all. The past leaders had different agendas and had their moments of failure. The current crop of city leaders are running a new game. I dislike both council and city administration. Think both are inept, focused on the wrong things, refuse to interact with most citizens, have an agenda that is governed by MMF, pathetic as to performance and in general, failures. Examples? Sure. How about the oversaturation of Section 8 and the further onslaught of lowering the standards in this city, for the purpose of receiving HUD fed money for city revenue. Another example...no effort at all in seeking decent jobs for the people of this city in years. Periodic announcements of 10 or 20 jobs created, paying $10-$15/hour doesn't cut it and is no eye-opening revelation. Another example of promises in the dark? Duncan Oil. Tore down active businesses to make room for Duncan Oil, which never materialized. Poor planning. Pathetic execution. More failure. Oh, and what is with the entrance to the city out by I-75 on the east side? Looks unfinished, crude, deserted, and non-inviting to people at the Exit 32 getoff. Nothing there. Not even a gas station. The east end was the focus a while back. Now, no interest. All of it is going downtown, away from the visibility factor discussed. Wrong decision again by city leaders. Why do the citizens get stuck with such ineptness? The only way to improve this city is to fire all in the city building, rehire competence. Recall all council members, re-elect competence. Otherwise, this city is going nowhere. JMO We are dealing with clueless people both in the city building and on council.

2. Growth by undeveloped acreage? Partly. Also development in Mason, Springboro and West Chester simply due to their reputations as more "upscale", higher class visibility, (AK Steel moved to West Chester and Black Clawson moved to Mason-Montgomery Road for higher visibility and to entertain clients in a more professional, upscale climate). Middletown leaders have screwed up everything they have touched, and, lastly, because, as Vivian and other business folks have stated, Middletown leaders have put up so many roadblocks toward inviting businesses to locate here, the word is out that this town is business unfriendly, stubborn and out-of-touch with modern developmental thinking.

3. Focused on downtown development. Word on the street is that if the downtown shows favorable growth (Cinci State and an arts district), it will enhance property values along the S. Main St. corridor, which, ironically is where the mayor and Marty Kohler (and I'm sure other influential people live). Imagine that! It goes to show you how weak-minded council is that they could be influenced by a small minority of artzy people who got them to support the PAC and other functions. Because Middletown is a blue-collar town (ie- more NASCAR and burgers than arts, cheese, wine and the "finer things in life" crowd), the arts theme downtown will attract few from Middletown. They must rely on out of town traffic to stimulate this idea. Don't see overwhelming interest in PAC so far.....not enough to envoke notice. No, IMO, logically, if you want to attract people to downtown in any numbers, you have to offer something the MAJORITY would be interested in.(like the chance to win some money) Now, no one on this forum, nor in the community wants to talk about it, but I still maintain that if we place a casino downtown, it would draw locals and out of town traffic. They would need a place to stay for a weekend. That stimulates hotel and living accomodations to be built. (Reason for a Manchester Hotel upgrade perhaps?). Also need restaurants and entertainment.....golf (Forest Hills) and tennis (Middletown Tennis Club or whatever its called now) and theatre (reason for a Sorg upgrade perhaps?) Pipedreams? Perhaps, but the Banks in Cincinnati is receiving a casino now, aren't they? How about Lawrenceburg Indiana? They're doing ok, aren't they? Making money to upgrade roads, new building going on? Why wouldn't we want what a casino might bring to the downtown area.....far better, IMO, than the current "small campus/artzy district" theme, that will attract only students and people interested in the arts occasionally. Just not enough to keep the downtown stimulated full time. City leader thinking is small minded and not advanced enough to shoot for bigger and better things that would enliven the town at a faster rate. We need some rapid rate growth injected into this town to play catchup with everyone else, but before we can do that, we need to clear out the deadwood in the leadership ranks. THEY are the problem.

This discussion with GG is taking on academic dimensions. Simply put, this is the worst council in 30 years, not by education, intelligence, but focus on themselves, and a small number of individuals, than the city at large. This council is far worse in that regard, than any council I can recall in memory, even though really bad ones, that could not articulate well nor clearly.

It doesn't take much review under the hood to also see the similarities with past councils. First, the current group opposes any dedication to road funds, the same as those before it---there gg, is your guilt by actionable association. Secondly, by fact, is another factual point. In virtually every city council, there has been a police chief, and a few council members whom had a tight association with city leadership. The fact resonates presently. You have two Mulligans whom had a father retire from the city, a police chief who did retire, and a woman who ran campaigns for virtually all of the above. Their natural allegiance would be to the city that gave their father a retirement pension, or the citizens? Face facts gg, its with the city agenda. Same with Mr. Becker. Picard is just along for the ride, and lines up, with the 3, and the political "rightness" of supporting public servants, even though it is financially wrong.

If the openness and greenfield space is what brought the spoils of the rich and wealth to Springboro as you suggest, why has the east end failed gg? That's a simple answer. No one wants to live in Middletown. AK and the Atrium moved out, because they did not ant to be associated with Middletown and was tarnishing their brand. That simple. No spin, no high speed data network needs, just image, high taxes, bad schools, and time to close shop, period.

You are offering excuses gg, instead of factual perception. Again, go deep under the hood. Why did Picard and Becker change their outlook on downtown Middletown, which they adamantly opposed? Because they fall in line with the clique, when a few mandate they want something done, but spread wealth to get what they desire. That's the Middletown way, and it has been, for at least 30 years. As sj stated, the citizens have been raped, sold out, screwed, burned at the stake, of a few.

Corruption? Look at the termination or rather, resignation of Mike Robinette. He is hired back as a consultant and selling commercial real estate out by the interstate. Some would say that's a conflict of interest, especially for his past sins. In city hall, its a way of doing business.The money downtown and why? That question has been answered many times. Main Street property valuation firewall, although there will never be an increased demand for Main Street housing. But, they needed a new ballroom to replace the Manchester and the Moorman's were ticked off they were the only anchor. So----$$$ go out, fed $$$ come in, all using this nonsense about the magic of Cincinnati State. A culinary presence will never materialize downtown, never. Middletown bought a Cincinnati State franchise. The interest and enthusiasm of Cincinnati State and HEP has been very lukewarm. They expect Middletown to drive the numbers. HEP needs 3500 for break-even. It will never happen.

Excuse after excuse has been made about Middletown for 30 years. The most powerful evidence it is a failure is by the Atrium and AK moves. When they moved out, it was for a reason. I'll let you spin it your way, but the fact is, they just did not want to be in a town going down the drain and taking everyone with it. Look at Briehel Blvd. 90% of the businesses are moving out, same on University. Forbes got it right. Middletown is in the death spin. Those with a brain, left. The others are awaiting the final nail to be hit within two years.

I have a dissertation to get back to, but the excuse of brownfields, a new beginning for a new council, the same rubbage used for 30 years gg....it just doesn't sell. Not even a newspaper, as much as they try. And that's a memo.

Vet, Spider, acclaro,

I want to thank all of you for the well thought out & well communicated responses to my questions from last night. As you know, I am new to this on-line community. I joined about two weeks ago after a friend told me that it would be a good source of information for the due diligence that I was performing on the proposed landlord registration legislation. I have several rental units that would be affected by this type of legislation so I was making my best effort to learn all that I could on the subject. Upon entering this web site for the first time, I was dumbfounded by two facts:

1. This sight has a multitude of members that that have an intimate knowledge of the “goings on” in this city; much more than I even want to know (there are also a few idiots).

2. For the majority of the members of this site, there is an intense anger and/or frustration with the city’s leadership, both past and present. The intensity jumps off of the screen when you read the posts.

Initially, I was a little angered by the posts. I felt that folks were unfairly using general statements to take shots at the city’s “current” leadership. Statements, that they couldn’t defend if challenged. After asking a few more questions and a little “prodding”, I got the type of thought provoking responses that I had hoped for. The viewpoints were specific in nature and their authors are anxiously waiting to defend / debated their position.

The problem that I am struggling with is this. Over the last three years, I have had the opportunity to directly communicate with Judy Gilleland, Mike Robinette, and Doug Adkins on a few, primarily real estate related, issues. They have been professional, responsive to my needs, and come across as “Pro Middletown”. Upon reflecting upon those interactions, Judy, for the most part, delegated to her staff and was always seemed focused on the city’s “Master Plan”. Mike Robinette (former ED Director) and Doug Adkins had a more “hands on” approach. Their actions (in my experience) fly in the face of all that I am hearing on this board. Most recently, I have corresponded with Mr. Adkins about three times concerning the landlord registration issue. He answered all of my questions on the subject, heard my concerns and basically put me at ease concerning the subject. I will be happy to share the details of those conversations if anyone is interested. I believe that his long term solutions are “spot on” with what needs to be done and, in my opinion, shares most of the solution based strategies that I have read from members of this board.

Upon reflection, my positive views toward current leadership are probably based, primarily, on my interactions with the administrative staff as I have described. I really can’t speak with any real knowledge concerning the city council but you guys are accelerating my learning curve about them and I don’t like what I am learning.

I now have a much better understanding of where many of the folks on this board are coming from and I hope that this post will give you a “feel” for my position as well. I can tell you that I have a solutions based mindset on most matters. You will seldom here me b-tch about a problem without trying to offer a solution or request a solution from someone else. In the future, I will be less of a cheerleader and spend more time identifying problems & solutions or responding to same that are brought up by this on-line community. Thanks again for tuning me in.