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Saturday, April 20, 2024 |
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2012 HUD ANNUAL ACTION PLAN |
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over the hill 
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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 Posted: Oct 23 2012 at 1:15pm |
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do i detect some kind of jelousy here hidden in responses
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Bill
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Oct 23 2012 at 2:19pm |
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Funny how all the Sec 8 trolls start showing up on this site once their little industry starts taking some heat. Why haven't you previously made comments on the many other important issues to this community? Oh, that's right, you probably either don't live here or don't care.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Oct 23 2012 at 7:58pm |
LH4, LH4 You still never answered my question. Are You A Landlord? And As I stated before I have been to meetings where Dan Tracy and other Section 8 Landlords swore their Section 8 tenants were the best tenants they ever had. Hunting down section 8 Landlors, what a lark! This is most likely a problem with CONSOCC, who was fired. CONSOC ran the program for I believe 15 to 20 yrs. seems to me a COCNSON issue that the City had to wade through. Section 8 rules are written by the government and not the city. The city attempts to work within HUD's rules and trys to makes changes to the city's benefit, but usually get's slapped down by HUD as has happened in the recent past. Section 8 is not a bad program. The problem is that Middletown is over saturated with 1000-1200 more vouchers than they should have. Middletown is a mecca for section 8 due to the tremendous amount of housing it has that you can buy for pennies and the dollar, rehab for pennies on the dollar, make you money back in 18-24 months and the money just rolls in with minimul expenses. I have been researching section 8 in Middletown for the last 5 years. honestly I believe without this site and our discussion about section 8 on it, the attention the matter diserves would not be where it's at now. Dan Tracy has possibly gotten himself into a mess and with his owning about 135 properties, including the ones in his name, if he can't strike a deal or come out this not guilty he may be in big trouble financially. Pacman  |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Oct 23 2012 at 8:16pm |
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Secvion 8 program is not the problemin itself
City Admin's decision to bring in so much of it is the problem. Can't fault tenants or landlords for using what our city govt.has made available to them. Actually, city govt.brought in the vouchers fully expecting them to be used, damn the consequences to public safety, schools and local businesses as long as they got their hands into the cookie jar. Now they want to throw out the voucher holders and scapegoat the landlords. Most Section 8 voucher holders are law-abiding citizens. Same with landlords, who are often conned by tenants and misleading regulations. I know Mr.Tracy, and consider him a friend. He is hardly a bad or dangerous person. Don't make him the diversionary fall guy for a city admin program that has imploded negatively over the entire community. Keep your focus on the true culprits in this situation. Why not first start by example of eliminating everyone within city admin responsible for the over-saturation of the Section 8 program? Doug? Judy? Larry?
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 8:19am |
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And As I stated before I have been to meetings where Dan Tracy and other Section 8 Landlords swore their Section 8 tenants were the best tenants they ever had. Hunting down section 8 Landlords what a lark! This is most likely a problem with CONSOCC, who was fired. CONSOC ran the program for I believe 15 to 20 yrs. seem to me a COCNSON issue that the City had to wade through. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 8:30am |
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Gentlemen |
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LH4
MUSA Immigrant 
Joined: Oct 17 2012 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 9:27am |
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Pacman
Obviously you know very little about the rental property.It does not take pennies on dollar to rehab a property. Materials do not go for pennies on the dollar. Someone previously commented on buying up the properties in Middletown....news flash... drive around... do you not see all the foreclosed property? Look around. There are plenty for people to buy. You should buy a few fix them up and try to sell them...good luck. Those homes are not owned by section 8 tenants. Now they are sitting there EMPTY so thieves can break in and steal the copper pipes! But you are right it is much better to let it sit empty...and with the high rated school system, wonderful places to shop, and the attentive police department...people will come to buy them up.. Someone also mentioned the price Dan Tracy has paid for his properties. You have no idea the amount of money that is put into one of those homes. And you can not sell it...only rent it. Property values in Middletown are saddening. This is not because of section 8. Do you not realize that people are not choosing Middletown because of the many other reasons? Bill Most landlord trolls do care about the community. Good schools and good communities equal higher rent rates. FYI the city admins responsible for the "over saturation" of section 8 is due to what? Why would they ever allow such a thing? Go back and look at the city before this.. Financially.. Now people want to blame the section 8 program and the landlord trolls...But no one has complained about the landlords spending the money to buy or fix up a house. Or paying taxes on the property. Does a property setting empty profit the city???? |
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LH4
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Oct 17 2012 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 9:42am |
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Vivian
Thank you for the FACTS. You are absolutely right..we do have some "slumlords" and they are not section 8 property. Question to everyone? What is going to happen to this town when they push section 8 out of it? Do you think that the landlords will still rent all the property they own? Or just let it sit empty, not being able to pay the mortgages. Then they will have to rent to anyone with lowered rent rate and have no inspections. Think about it. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 11:18am |
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If I had a magic wand I would remove all the HUD properties and all the HUD funds from I find this witch hunt against business people that are land lords very troubling.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 11:28am |
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Vivian....LH4....very good points. On the other hand, I, for one, do not like the Section 8 program, would like to have NONE of it in Middletown (realizing that is not an option) and think it breeds more crime, lowers property values (as if they could go any lower, right?) and creates a "ghetto" image to those who perceive Middletown as a lower class town nowadays. The last thing this town needs, with all the other problems it has, is an influx of lower income/handout programs. Creates dependency and laziness in a certain segment of this city's population. I detest programs that foster this mentality. Let 'em do what I have done for 44 years. Go out and work and get it yourself. Get your hands out of the working people's wallet. Ain't nobody helping me these days, even with a wife who is totally handicapped. Didn't use to be that way here 40 years ago. This was a decent, respected town back then. Now.......ruined by the dam city leaders since the 70's (and getting worse by the day with the current crop of leaders) Sorry, just venting. JMO
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Bocephus
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 12:42pm |
The only thing Iam jealous about is the fact that Iam stuck in this sh*t hole of a town with you when I could just stop making my mortgage payments and walk away.Jealous of What ? Oh please |
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Bill
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 1:08pm |
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Vet, the sad thing in this country nowadays is that I bet the gap between what you currently earn and what you could earn via going "on the dole" (e.g., welfare, filing for disability, food stamps, taking early Social Security, getting an Obamaphone, etc.) probably isn't that far apart. There just isn't the incentive to work hard for many people. I will agree with those that say there aren't the good job opportunities there used to be but there is also a generation of laziness consisting of people who appear to be in no hurry to do anything and shuffle around town with nothing to do (I know you've seen them too). These are folks who would rather take a $5 handout than work hard for $10.
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digger-2
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Oct 18 2012 Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 1:34pm |
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Much can be learned by reading Community Revitalization posts from Vivian, VietVet, Sprider John, Mike Presta, etc. since late 2008.
Look at what has been revealed on MUSA regarding questionable city policies, plans, extravagant spending, baseless hype, consultants, etc. Is the worst thing of all our city's waste of tax dollars and so many lost opportunities to improve older areas of Wards 2 and 1. Or is it a few self-proclaimed MUSA visionaries (not) who repeatedly heaped praise upon those who administer these programs. Go figure??
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 2:36pm |
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digger 2.....
"Much can be learned by reading Community Revitalization posts from Vivian, VietVet, Sprider John, Mike Presta, etc. since late 2008". "Look at what has been revealed on MUSA regarding questionable city policies, plans, extravagant spending, baseless hype, consultants, etc" Yes, Mike P, Vivian, Spider and others do a great job researching the facts and presenting them to us. We are fortunate to have them here. They usually dig up what the city leaders try to hide from us mere mortals. At times, they catch the city changing their stories (to be blunt- lying) and present conflicting info. coming out of city hall. Mike P is good at catching Rusty Carolus, the Finance DIErector spinning those financial funds around, moving money around from fund to fund and creating his magical financial manipulations. Vivian does a good job monitoring Douggie Adkins and the games he runs day to day. Les Landen's a hoot the way he interprets the law to coincide with what the city wants and needs at the moment. To hell with city ordinances the way they are written. It's whatever the flavor of the moment is that dictates the legal decision. Would actually be funny if the infractions weren't so serious. The city manager.....a total failure in the leadership department in directing this city. Totally misfocused as to what this town needs, as is the mayor. Unfortunately digger, most of the people living in this town never have heard of this forum or aren't interested at all in what is happening that affects all of us here. At times, we get the city bred infiltrators on here that make life interesting in our discussions. They are here just to insert confusion and turmoil. Fun to argue with, otherwise comical, as they attempt to defend our pathetic city leaders. If those that care would read this forum and stop believing what they read in the MMF hack puppet paper called the Journal, they might get angry enough to effect change at the voting booth. But it won't happen. Most don't give a crap what happens in this town. Just want to be left alone, complain and stay out of the way of city affairs. If there was some way to stir their interest in what these clowns are doing to this town, and get them mad enough to show for meetings, we may provide some serious resistance to their little kingdom. But...... |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 5:12pm |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 5:14pm |
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Spider,
What about Marty Kohler?
should he be first to go? Section 8 is the problem when it is over saturated in a city the size of Middletown in the condition that it is in. Most of people resonsible for Section 8 are long gone from City hall. When Judy G first took over as City manager, one of her first Manager report to the city council was to due away with Section 8 in Middletown. Later she discover it easy said than done. Doug Adkins, once he was put in charge of Section 8, I personally believe he has made an honest effort in attempting to reduce the # of vouchers in Middletown. Noone in City hall has mentioned anything about throwing any one off their vouchers. The reduction in vouchers is to be done through attrition. Not to just rush in and throw 1000 voucher holders out in the street. Excessive Section 8 is a multi faceted problem. Some of the problems are: 1.) with about 1/3 of the students in the school system on Section 8 this negatively impacts the scholl systems. I am not saying all kids contribute to the problem, but when you have 1800-1900 hundred students whose families are on section 8 many cause additional issues for the school system, which results in the low performance of Middletown schools. Then when you take into acc**t the other 50%of the population which lives below the poverty level in Middletown, your problems at the schools multiply. 2.) consumers with disposable income. Disposable income in Middltown is low compared to many other cities due to Section 8, due to 60% of the popluation living below the poverty level. now I realize the low poverty helps some of your businesses, but for the rest of us it henders new businesses moving to Middletown. 3.) Many not all section 8 residents are not law abiding citizens you should know this as well as anybody else. If Section 8 voucher holders are not criminals who's conning the landlords. Pacman |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 5:37pm |
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Once again LH4,
You didn't answer my question. Let me simply it for you. 1.)are you a Section 8 Landlord?
2.) do you live in the city of Middletown? |
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Middletown29
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 6:03pm |
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Kohler is retiring at the end of this year. Hopefully he takes Gilliland with him.
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LH4
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Oct 17 2012 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 6:12pm |
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Pacman
In the past someone on here thought it was a good idea to list all the properties that certain people owned...which was NOT accurate information. Of course no one listed what amount of money was put into a building or house! Because you do not know. Once again, you do not address the effect of the cause! I do not need anything simplified. You can go to every meeting you would like.. and you will hear what they want you to hear. If the city makes it harder for landlords to rent their properties that THEY wanted landlords to buy and fix up...you will see more slumlords and run down properties. As far as me being a landlord... you are so concerned if I am or not. Why? I might tell the facts of the other side? That should not be a issue. |
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LH4
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Oct 17 2012 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 6:18pm |
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Pacman
You said 1/3 of the children. What about the schools that are in areas where no section 8 children live??? Why then are they not meeting the standards? If so barely.. Like I've said before...If you have children that IS the first thing you look at when choosing a new city!!! |
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LH4
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Oct 17 2012 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 6:33pm |
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Pacman
Since you have been to all the meetings... Did you know that the city will send a landlord a letter for something they see wrong on a property.? No letter will be sent to the home owner two doors down with windows broken, etc... Before you say it... I think it should ALL be fixed. The regular home owners will not do a thing..Some do not have the money. So what will the city do ? Nothing...enjoy looking at it! |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 8:04pm |
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Vivian, I find it hard to believe that you continue to blame the Inspection group. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 8:23pm |
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Pacman It's like ganny said..if you poke a big stick in a hornets nest be prepared to be stung. I can’t wait to read Mr. Adkins answer to HUD.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 9:09pm |
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yes pacman my friend
Mr.Kohler should be the first to go The fact that he remains speaks loudly of admin's priorities and true intent This situation was brought on by a LARGE # of city administrators and elected officials over an extended period of time. The long-term results have destroyed our community and made us the area poster child for what NOT to be. I honestly like Marty as a person, but strongly disagree with his policies. Amazing how some people are allowed to retire at their discretion, while others(like Mr.Tracy) are arrested. |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 11:16pm |
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LH4,
You said you had no problem answering any questions, you obviously do. You talk like a landlord, act like a landlord and avoid saying your actually a landlord that you live in Middletown. Why the refusal to answer these simply questions as you said you would?? Are you ashamed of being a Landlord? As far as living in Middletown, are you ashamed of what you helped to create or do you only owe section 8 housing in Middletown and live elsewhere that doesn't have section 8 housing. About the schools, When people move to this city, they usually look at the overall score for the entire school district. Middletown comes in last every year for the county. and is going in reverse as far as indicators go. this scares off many new residents unless they figure out they can do what i did with my son and send him out of the district. You should look in the past when the city has sent out letters to resident about rusty gutters, broken windows, peeling paint etc; Insisting on repairs. Unless you file a complaint about your neighbor who is not on section 8 the city will most likely not look into the issue. section 8 homes are inspected regularly as has been stated on this forum, that is not a city rule, that is a HUD rule. Pacman |
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LH4 wrote:
Staff members of The Inspection Group have been subcontractors for the national REAC contractors of Building Inspection Service (BISCO), MTB and Insurance Services Office, (ISO). REAC inspection experience includes work performed under all three of the HUD REAC programs, the MOBIS (REAC Pilot Program), National Inspection Contract (NIC), and Baseline Inspection Contract (BIC). Our REAC inspection work has taken us to locations throughout the mid-west and southeastern states, including large public housing authorities of New York City, Boston and Cleveland to mention a few. Various properties include inspecting public housing, Section 8 project based, home-ownership, and HUD/FHA insured and assisted multifamily, elderly, and group home properties.|
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