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ktf1179 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 10:56pm
They Ayrshire Neighborhood on the east end of Middltetown at the corner of 122 & Dixie Hwy. where I live is pretty nice. I always see people and kids outside doing thing. The only major down side is the roads, sidewalks, and there are a few forecloses. But other than that it is a pretty quiet neighborhood.
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processor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote processor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 12:37pm
Billiam,
Please don't let all of the negative comments scare you away from taking a good look at Middletown.  Middletown does have a lot of issues it has to contend with but city council is, in their own way, doing some good things for Middletown.  The Section 8 reductions should start to help.  Council is moving from the ward system to an at large system and is reducing their numbers from 7 to 5 members.  This should help them get better focused and, hopefully, start to make further progress.  Yes they are currently focused on some of the wrong issues, and seem to move money from fund to fund without solid reasons, but I still have hope.
 
Middletown city schools have a lot of issues that they are dealing with, but are moving in the right direction and are working hard to change their culture toward one of high expectations.
 
Real Estate values have decreased over the last 5 years, but they've decreased all over the country and it's hard to sort out which is Middletown specific issues and which is a result of the general decrease in real estate values.  From what I've seen Middletown's real estate value reduction has been at about the US average...15% - 20%... maybe a bit more for the higher end homes.
 
Middletown does have a high poverty rate and few amenities, shopping, restaurants, entertainment, but there are two good local restaurants in town, 3 good grocery stores, and some entertainment venues.  Plus Middletown is very close to Dayton and Cincinnati...so if you don't mind a 30 minute drive you are close to a lot of shopping, etc.  With the low property values, you should have money to spend at these places
 
Middletown does have a great sense of community and is full of some wonderful caring people...Yes there are some bums, but no more than in other cities.
 
Whether the city continues to turn around or stagnates or goes further down hill is anyone's guess but at least there are many people who are trying to make the right decisions and are working hard to push it the right direction.
 
Take Spider up on his offer.  I know that he'll give you a good tour, warts and all, and help you make your own decision.  Some who post on this board are disappointed about things and tend to take it out on the city.  They don't reflect the attitudes of many in the city.
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 10:45am
Come on bill--don't get wimpy on us when u r questioned
We r often baited and played with by detractors trying to downplay this site.
So-- the skepticism and suspicion is often warranted.
Come on down Wed. Evening for a top band @ the broad st.bash
I will meet you, show you around and introduce to my acquaintances from both sides of the fence and tracks(excuse me for having friends in this town mr.S-- can h stick to one screen name? And could u put all of yer pathetically pithy roundabout shots @ me in one particular heading? Lol)
Stefanos-At the Square-Liberty-Stained
U won't b disappointed
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Perplexed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perplexed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 10:32am
Acclaro offers significant insight into the city's problems and provides real world commentary as to solving them.  He is a valued asset to MUSA.  His posts are insightful and appreciated.
 
What I like about Acclaro is that he is a successful business professional who does not flaunt his accomplishments or friends/acquaintances like one other MUSA participant.  Thank you, Acclaro.
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Neil Barille View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neil Barille Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 9:19am
Billiam = greygoose?
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bumper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bumper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 8:10am
wow bill im not seeing acclaro being an A hole as you say!! the couple of people that told you things were looking up in mid town are the ones that are hitting the bottle, your given up over one person tells me you really don't have the drive to run a business of any kind..now im thinking your all BS...
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 8:10am
Billiam, spoken like an individual who knows nothing about evaluating nor opening a sole proprietorship. Even a single owner entity should be evaluated by market and financial analysis. Why....you may even quality for incubator status and acceleration consulting from Cincinnati State and some seed money as sj indicated, from the deep federal pockets in Donham.

Here's a another consideration for you pal. AK Steel has trended for a year between 4.00 and 3.00/ share. Read the analysts ratings. If t were to be sold, what would that do to your investment? Go down and seek some help from the C State staff.

Glad you are staying in NKY, you might want to check out Lexington, as that area is growing rapidly. Of course, you may be a contractor looking for an opportunity to restore a building downtown. They usually sell for about $1.00, or given away. You have two markets to cater: those selling gold teeth, gold watches, etc., or the other segment which is buying crab cakes and monte cristo sandwiches @ Stained. Chose your market segment wisely.

Cheer for the Wildcats down at UK, from your NKY perch, not much to cheer in Detroit No. @, ergo, Middletown. I am certain Larry Mulligan would be happy to take you on a 4 hour tour when you make your soourn for further evaluation. As the roads are pretty rough, you may want to look over the city in a helicopter.       
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Billiam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billiam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 7:46am
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

unfortunately a lot of truth in what axclaro is saying... just look at how the city may be blocking musa admin from the city's(citizens') web site
 
hopefully u aren't here stroking us(as has been done often by city or school hitmen shills trying to discredit the often ugly truth(mtown--middletown29--smartman etc.)). if so, don't waste our(or your) time
 
if u r legit--hang around and contribute
u will learn plenty
 
so--how did u find this place?

I lived in Middletown for a couple of months back in 2000 while working for my friend in nearby Liberty Township.  On another message board I had a couple of people tell me that Middletown is starting to see some improvement.

Right now I am convinced that I should not waste any more of time on this board or even consider moving to Middletown.  I can find someplace better where I won't get pissed on for simply inquiring into the health of the local economy and the quality of life.  I think I will stick with NKY where I did not and have not gotten the attitude by people like axclaro.  
Billiam
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bumper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bumper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 7:43am
Mike I really hate putting  "negativism"on ya but the realism", or "facing the FACTS"!!! is, your stuck....Confused.we took a loss 7 years ago selling our home, not real bad but didn't care, and when it sold we left mid town at break-neck speed and didn't get a speeding ticket LOL 
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Billiam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billiam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 7:41am
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

Billion- get real. You are trying to tee up the story about Middletown. Its dead, gone, toast, the fat lady sang. Detroit version 2.

Don't insult me or others by shilling for the city but stating its negativity that ruins a city. Middletown's inept leadership, taking money for roads to pay salaries, and crime has led prominent residents to move out, and few but fire sale hunters, move in. Why don't you share what your investment to me in capital funds, and what it is the nature of your business.

A capital investor would be doing market research and crunching numbers for due diligence, not blogging on a board about the Middletown Journal article. Last week, the paper had one page on Middletown, and that was associated with parking. Run some financial ratios, not spinning for the city in a death spiral. 

If you even bothered to read my original posts you would find that I am going to develop a Proprietorship, not a large or even medium sized business.  Unfortunately for the kind of business I am developing there are no real marketing studies that can be used to determine where it might work best.  I can't hire a consultant or buy data from a marketing firm that will tell me whether or not it will work.  If I was going to open up a retail shop or some other similar service oriented business then it would be easy to learn if it would work there.

You are a real a-hole for putting words into my keyboard.  You've just convinced me not to waste any more time with your city. Thank God I did not get this attitude in NKY.  Been hitting the bottle much?
Billiam
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 6:30am
Oh, Billiam, just a couple more things:
 
1.  Some would call statements like the two I just made above "negativism".  I, and many others call it "realism", or "facing the FACTS"!!!
 
2.  If you do decide to move here, and you are interested in a nice, large home in a good neighborhood--give me a call!!!  Even though we have completely remodeled the kitchen and master bath, and have rebuilt the deck and replaced the HV&AC, if you offer anything even close to what we originally paid (in 1998), you will see my wife and I heading for the city limits at a velocity that will be certain to get us a speeding ticket.  (We will mail in our fine to traffic court.)
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 6:01am
Billiam,
 
Here's a couple of suggestions for how to tell who is telling the ugly truth and who may be trying to pump sunshine up people's butts:
 
The City Council's budget discussions are coming up these next couple of months.  On the one hand, a story just broke that over a thousand new jobs have been created over the last four years.  Pay attention to the budget talks and I think that you will hear that revenue from the city's income tax has Fallen over the last four years.
 
Check with the local school officials about how much you might have to pay for your kid's school lunches.  You will find that, even if you make a bazillion dollars a year, your kid will get FREE lunches (and breakfasts)!!!  You see, there is so much poverty in town, and so many of the children are on the free meal program, that our school system comes out AHEAD to put the few remaining kids on free meals too, rather than to collect the few bucks that they would take in.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 22 2013 at 3:44am
unfortunately a lot of truth in what axclaro is saying... just look at how the city may be blocking musa admin from the city's(citizens') web site
 
hopefully u aren't here stroking us(as has been done often by city or school hitmen shills trying to discredit the often ugly truth(mtown--middletown29--smartman etc.)). if so, don't waste our(or your) time
 
if u r legit--hang around and contribute
u will learn plenty
 
so--how did u find this place?
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 11:15pm
Billion- get real. You are trying to tee up the story about Middletown. Its dead, gone, toast, the fat lady sang. Detroit version 2.

Don't insult me or others by shilling for the city but stating its negativity that ruins a city. Middletown's inept leadership, taking money for roads to pay salaries, and crime has led prominent residents to move out, and few but fire sale hunters, move in. Why don't you share what your investment to me in capital funds, and what it is the nature of your business.

A capital investor would be doing market research and crunching numbers for due diligence, not blogging on a board about the Middletown Journal article. Last week, the paper had one page on Middletown, and that was associated with parking. Run some financial ratios, not spinning for the city in a death spiral. 
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 9:37pm
depends on exactly what you want to do here, bill---
It can work, and you may end up welcomed by the system, especially if they can rope you into something in the area formerly known as downtown. Not all bad, since they will toss you free $$ to pretty much spend however you like.
As I mentioned, very nice homes available for a fraction of--say--Fort Thomas-Fort Mitchell-Covington-Newport. Can't get much for your $$ there, and most everything is old. Better schools, shopping and close to Cincy though.
 
You can make it work if you are doing the right type of business and play your hand as conveniently as possible.
 
 
jmo
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Billiam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billiam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by bumper bumper wrote:

heck billiam you asked and have been given advice, but ya never know till you jump in with both feet, let us know when it gets here and what ya got..the downtown crowd would love to have ya set up shop im sure...  I really don't care mainly for the reason I have no reason to waste my gas to make a trip to middletucky for anything...

Most of the input I've received has been good and honest.  Both the negative and the positive has been welcomed.  I do plan to visit the city next month or over Labor Day to see for myself what kind of shape it is in.  As I've said I have not been there for at least a decade and I had a couple of people tell me they though that things were looking up.  

Based upon what the guy that posted to you previously has said, maybe I will just stick with investing my money in another home in NKY.   It is that attitude which leads to the destruction of a community.  
Billiam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billiam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

Billiam, I will play along with you as an investor, even though you are in Middletown and trying to spin what a great city it is, and only crabs bring people and regions down, not bad decisions and reality.

The numbers are not promising nor accurate. Indeed, when the CEO was shaking Middletown down to keep the Atrium hospital within the annexed area of Franklin, he said the Atrium would see 10,000 new jobs or its campus. That hasn't been within 99% accurate of forecast. Investment capital means nothing; and the two largest outputs were existing businesses or jv's of existing businesses as defined.

As for projection, perhaps you are a clinical psychologist looking for space? Anyone whom bought within the past 20-25 years owning a house, would sell it below what they paid two decades ago. A friend is a President of one of Trenton's most illustrious businesses besides Coors; they sold their home at a $225,000. capital loss to build in West Chester.         

Well, I came to this board trying to get information and an honest assessment of what is going on there.  And yes, I have a little money to purchase a property and will do so elsewhere if I decide not to pursue my venture in NKY.  

For starters I am not in Middletown and I am hardly spinning anything.  A couple of people told me it was starting to show signs of life and then some people, such as yourself have denigrated it to the point that I would not see why anyone would want to live there.  Perhaps all 48,000 residents should leave?

Yes, if the Ol' Boy Network is alive and well in the local politics as you have said it is and also someone earlier in this thread then yes, that is a major problem.  But people such as yourself need to band together and do something about it and find good people to run for office and then elect them.  

Lastly,  your first comment above is pretty damn condescending and the last part of the sentence makes little sense. Crabs bring people and regions down?

Do you always insult people that want to try to do something positive in your city?


Billiam
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bumper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bumper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 7:37pm
heck billiam you asked and have been given advice, but ya never know till you jump in with both feet, let us know when it gets here and what ya got..the downtown crowd would love to have ya set up shop im sure...  I really don't care mainly for the reason I have no reason to waste my gas to make a trip to middletucky for anything...
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 6:57pm
Billiam, I will play along with you as an investor, even though you are in Middletown and trying to spin what a great city it is, and only crabs bring people and regions down, not bad decisions and reality.

The numbers are not promising nor accurate. Indeed, when the CEO was shaking Middletown down to keep the Atrium hospital within the annexed area of Franklin, he said the Atrium would see 10,000 new jobs or its campus. That hasn't been within 99% accurate of forecast. Investment capital means nothing; and the two largest outputs were existing businesses or jv's of existing businesses as defined.

As for projection, perhaps you are a clinical psychologist looking for space? Anyone whom bought within the past 20-25 years owning a house, would sell it below what they paid two decades ago. A friend is a President of one of Trenton's most illustrious businesses besides Coors; they sold their home at a $225,000. capital loss to build in West Chester.         
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by Billiam Billiam wrote:

If Middletown is as bad as you say then why are you not moving?

Billiam,

I have no axe to grind with the City of Middletown other than disagreeing with the decisions made to renovate the Downtown Area at Citizen expense.  I owned a small business In Middletown which I had to close due to Medical reasons.  Personally, There is no business that I would invest in opening in Middletown for any reason at this time. 

The reason people are not leaving Middletown is due to the fact that most Mid-Upper income residents are unable to sell their homes without losing their shirts.

PacmanCool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billiam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

Billiam, listen pal. You are wasting our time trying to play along like a northern KY investor. Here's the deal, Middletown has 1.75% tax rate, heading for 2.0% soon. Its corrupt in my opinion, terribly run, and filled with cronyism. The job article as a cheerleader you truly are, is from SunCoke associated with a jv with AK Steel, an existing business for over 100 years, and the Atrium Med Ctr, an existing hospital that moved out of Dodge to gain benefit from Warren Cty where it sits. Take a drive downtown and Breihel Blvd if you want to see what's moving in vs what is moving out.

The phantom cheerleader garbage is amateur hour. Only a spin doc would not see through the dumb article you reference. Go take a peek at the tax revenue declining. That is your answer, or it would be mine, if I was pushing cap investment in the city. Of course, I wouldn't. Due diligence shows you'd lose your shirt.    

I should add that the facts speak for themselves.  The article cites specific job numbers that seem to be legitimate.  Do you believe these numbers are inflated?

I'm a believer in the power of positive thinking.  But I am also a realist.  Precisely why I am moving out of MO.  Negative environments lead to a negative life and only serve to tear down the positive aspects of a region.  If Middletown is as bad as you say then why are you not moving?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billiam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

Billiam, listen pal. You are wasting our time trying to play along like a northern KY investor. Here's the deal, Middletown has 1.75% tax rate, heading for 2.0% soon. Its corrupt in my opinion, terribly run, and filled with cronyism. The job article as a cheerleader you truly are, is from SunCoke associated with a jv with AK Steel, an existing business for over 100 years, and the Atrium Med Ctr, an existing hospital that moved out of Dodge to gain benefit from Warren Cty where it sits. Take a drive downtown and Breihel Blvd if you want to see what's moving in vs what is moving out.

The phantom cheerleader garbage is amateur hour. Only a spin doc would not see through the dumb article you reference. Go take a peek at the tax revenue declining. That is your answer, or it would be mine, if I was pushing cap investment in the city. Of course, I wouldn't. Due diligence shows you'd lose your shirt.    

You sound a bit delusional.  Projecting a bit eh?

I am simply trying to obtain information from local people that live and work in Middletown with the hope that I can get a reasonably accurate picture of the state of the local economy and also what life, in general is like in Middletown.

Just how much is the tax revenue declining?  And what is the cause?  Foreclosed properties?  
Billiam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 3:49pm
Billiam, listen pal. You are wasting our time trying to play along like a northern KY investor. Here's the deal, Middletown has 1.75% tax rate, heading for 2.0% soon. Its corrupt in my opinion, terribly run, and filled with cronyism. The job article as a cheerleader you truly are, is from SunCoke associated with a jv with AK Steel, an existing business for over 100 years, and the Atrium Med Ctr, an existing hospital that moved out of Dodge to gain benefit from Warren Cty where it sits. Take a drive downtown and Breihel Blvd if you want to see what's moving in vs what is moving out.

The phantom cheerleader garbage is amateur hour. Only a spin doc would not see through the dumb article you reference. Go take a peek at the tax revenue declining. That is your answer, or it would be mine, if I was pushing cap investment in the city. Of course, I wouldn't. Due diligence shows you'd lose your shirt.    
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billiam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 3:35pm
Just read the following and this seems very encouraging.  There most definitely is an upswing in interest in Middletown even from the business sector.  People are investing in Middletown!

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/news/job-numbers-show-people-are-investing-in-middletow/nYwg3/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billiam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2013 at 9:51am
Is this a weekly crime report or did all of these events occur over a single 24 hour period?  If they happened over three days or more then I would say it seems about average for a city of about 50,000 people anywhere.  

Believe it or not this list would constitute about a week's worth of crime in that rural town of 6,000 people where I lived in Missouri.  So, Middletown being about 8 times larger would likely have no worse a crime rate if all these crimes occurred over a period of two or more days.
Billiam
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