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Saturday, May 4, 2024 |
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New City Manager |
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Perplexed ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() Joined: Apr 22 2009 Status: Offline Points: 315 |
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I heard that Nelson Associates, current contractual manager of the HCV Program for Middletown, will be closing their office on June 1. If so, all of the comments about BMHA and Warren County taking over the 1662 vouchers is true.
By the way, how many of the 1662 units are project-based? And, how many are not? Those vouchers not project-based are transportable. The tenant may take these out of Middletown, assuming that the new rental unit meets HUD Housing Quality Standards and that the landlord is amenable to having a lower-income renter. As of 2008, thanks to information provided by CONSOC, there were a few HCV tenants who lived out-of-state. This landlord information was shared with Les Landen, Marty Kohler, Judy Gilleland plus the Police Department. I hope that this helps. And, as Bill O'Reilly might say, "Middletown has entered the worst phase of the Danger Zone." |
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acclaro ![]() Prominent MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Thank you Perplexed.
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Stanky ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jul 04 2011 Status: Offline Points: 193 |
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Vivian, why is it discrimination to ask (free) renters to move? If someone will buy my house, I'll gladly move!
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Talking Heads ![]() MUSA Immigrant ![]() ![]() Joined: Aug 18 2010 Status: Offline Points: 27 |
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How can Mr. Adkins be hired as the city manager when he is personally named in a pending lawsuit along with the City of Middletown? Has this lawsuit been dropped? If not, then it seems Mr. Adkins should have been disqualified from candidacy until and if the matter is resolved. Is this another sham - hire Mr. Adkins to "coverup" the past potential fraud, deception, and misappropriation of funding?
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over the hill ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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Well TH you may have a valid question. I don't think the law suit has been dropped. The ball is in Doug and the city's court. Let's see if they have a descent volley back.
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acclaro ![]() Prominent MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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There is no pending lawsuit.
What was filed was a PRAECIPE for DISCOVERY documents associated with Dan Tracey and Merg LLC. A request for documents will be asked associated with all internal docs that reference the his name, which will be few, and the city will have defense associated with their responsibility under HUD guidelines, to weed out, any landlords that are not complying with federal guidelines. The discovery documents, if not met with PROTECTIVE ORDER, will be a few documents associated with minor infractions which the city will claim were justified. The outcome will be the matter will be dropped in 90 days, a dismissal. processor was correct regarding the city's ability to simply reduce its voucher numbers. The contract term, long range, would extinguish the agreement, probably end of June, with no responsibility by city to renew if negotiations fail. In the event the city has vouchers moved to Hamilton, and Middletown will accept 700, Hamilton will honor that with an ordinance in place, pick up the additional processing/ administrative fees, and either the tenants move to Hamilton or an expansion of property, or remain in Middletown, but without the additional vouchers. The city of New York, with a population of 8,500,000, only has 33,000 section 8 vouchrs. That equates to less than .38 of 1%, of its total population, and less than .1% of its entire housing stock. While an egregious error made by Middletown to absorb such enormous vouchers, although they could have used NSP funds, and other federal housing grants, to build consolidated and very decent public housing, and increased the voucher number even further, which would have benefited Cincinnati State and those in section 8, by obtaining a trade or education that would stabilized their financial well being, there is nothing in federal law that states a city cannot reduce its stock after the period of contraction has expired, nor is it a form of discrimination for individuals to remain in a city in the event the vouchers are reduced. Consider this: if unemployed, and you have a job out of state, you must relocate to that state, or lose unemployment benefit. Same holds true associated with the vouchers. They will not be lost, but a holder (tenant), would be required to move to safe housing in compliance with HUD section 8, whether that be in HAMILTON, or ELSEWHERE. Stating this, that is not to agree the city had any success with its reduction efforts, over 4-5 years, other than the contract term will take care of the reduction. Many cities close waiting lists for voucher stock, because they wish to limit the amount within the community. There is no federal mandate a city must absorb vouchers to meet its population eligible for receipt. The section 8 matter will be resolved, soon, and as most have stated, in my opinion anyway, that is, admin to Hamilton. Those with vouchers either move elsewhere, or get off the voucher, or an allocation is reserved by ordinance, assuming of course, the long-term agreement is up, and that's it. I add, landlords are removed from Section 8 commonly, regardless of city, When that occurs, by federal law, depending upon the timing, and circumstance, if a foreclosure occurs as an example, the new landlord must allow the section 8 holder one year to remain in the location. Unless, the new landlord makes use of the property for prime residency, which provides the tenant 90 days to relocate. The city now will turn its attention on the unions, and particularly police negotiation and retention. I would encourage anyone who watches CNN, and Morgan Murdock's Insider documentaries, to watch his profile of Stockdale, California. You'll have a wake up call with what Middletown is headed, and soon, if it doesn't shape up, and drive revenue coming in, than pure tax and spend. When police are cut in numbers and housing stock is high, murder rates sky rocket, crime is unbearable. Put section 8 off the table, its taken care of. Turn the attention to crime and police force remaining intact, or Middletown better be recruiting the Guardian Angels along with open enrolled students. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Vivian Moon ![]() MUSA Council ![]() Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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It is my
understand that ALL 1662 voucher will be transferred to Warren and |
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acclaro ![]() Prominent MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Tenant rights will be a mobile voucher, good in any locale where there is section 8 availability.
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Vivian Moon ![]() MUSA Council ![]() Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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The tenants vouchers are mobile now....as long as land lords in Middletown want to rent them property the City of Middletown can not force these Section 8 tenants to move out of the city limits of Middletown.
In all my years I have never seen a reduction happen. You will need to show me an example of a county that had a reduction in their Section 8 Program. |
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over the hill ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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What I gather from these HUD vouchers is that if you want to move to Hamilton and Hamilton has an opening you can take your voucher to Hamilton and a slot opens in Middletown for some one else.Its like a big wheel with clogs in it.If you remove a clog another clog is put in its place and the wheel keeps turning around. No reduction in clogs just replacements to continue the the same number of clogs. IMO
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Vivian Moon ![]() MUSA Council ![]() Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Acclaro -The
city of No
city in the country has as much federally subsidized housing as The number of tenants living in public
housing in During the period of our study (1977 to
2002), In place of these programs, the City began its own capital program, the Ten Year Plan for Housing, which would fund the construction or rehabilitation of over 200,000 units of housing by 2002. Although the effort enjoyed an unprecedented level of municipal support, not all of the construction under the city’s Ten Year Plan for Housing [Schill et al 2002] was financed by city funds alone. Beginning in the early 1990s, much of this housing was also supported by the LIHTC. |
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Perplexed ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() Joined: Apr 22 2009 Status: Offline Points: 315 |
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Questions: How many of the 1,662 HCV units are 1) project-based and, 2) what number of vouchers are portable? Does anyone know? Moreover, does Middletown even have portable vouchers equal to the 1,008 that Mr. Adkins proposed to eliminate? Again, any answers?
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Vivian Moon ![]() MUSA Council ![]() Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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As of 2010
Housing Choice Vouchers..............1662 HUD Project Based.............................384 Listed as privately owned Section 202/811 Hope House............................................50 These are the only number that I have concerning this matter |
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over the hill ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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As I understand any voucher can be ported
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processor ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: May 07 2013 Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Ms. Moon,
Yes the vouchers are portable and go with the holder. My understanding is that Middletown will need to pass an ordinance to limit the number of section 8 properties available in Middletown. Otherwise I agree with you. The admin will be moved but the number of section 8 housing will remain, or grow, in Middletown. Acclaro makes a great point about police and fire protection. As the number of vouchers grow so will the need for additional police but there will be less money to hire them since the section 8 people will displace those who actually make money and pay taxes. We're in a vicious cycle that must be broken soon or we will go from bad to worse. |
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Vivian Moon ![]() MUSA Council ![]() Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Ms. Moon, |
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swohio75 ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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Vivian Moon ![]() MUSA Council ![]() Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Processor |
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swohio75 ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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So if indeed vouchers are "portable" there are a couple of tactics Middletown could take:
1.) Make it extremely undesirable for landlords to do business with the Section 8 program through extreme code enforcement and fines 2.) Reduce the number of properties that could be used by Section 8 voucher holders. This could be done by: a.) Wide-scale spot demolition of neglected properties that could be acquired by landlords at a very low cost for Section 8 use. This would put pressure on demand for market-rate rental property, potentially driving up costs and making it unattractive for Section 8 use. Finally, several folks here have mentioned NSP 2 funds. It's my understanding that Middletown did not receive any funding during round 2. |
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processor ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: May 07 2013 Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Ms. Moon,
TO my knowledge there is no Federal Law that gives HUD the right to tell a city how many vouchers they must take. Furthermore, if there was a law it would be unconstitutional. What the Federal government has typically done to get around this pesky constraint is to offer money to a city that is willing to do what they desire. It then becomes a matter of contract law. You take my money then I can tell you what to do. We may lose HUD's money, but so what. Regarding the section 8 growing and Middletown's tax revenue dropping, what seems to be happening is many of the wealthier people are leaving the city since they don't want to live in a housing project. As they leave the total wealth of Middletown is decreasing. This will either eventually result in higher taxes or reduced services either of which will serve to either drive additional people away or will cause fewer people to move to Middletown. I remember seeing a chart from the Police department that mapped crime location. Crime was most prevalent where there was the most section 8. I guess the studies results depend on your point of view. One could argue that we need more section 8 because there are more poor people in Middletown. However the more section 8 we have available the more poor people will come to Middletown and the more wealthier people will leave. With this circular logic, eventually nearly all of Middletown will convert to section 8. My argument is that all communities are limited in their capacity to help people before the people they are helping become so numerous that they begin to drag them down too. Middletown is beyond that point and needs to shed some of the people that are being helped. Maybe heartless to say, but, I believe, an economic fact. I'm not interested in living in a Detroit. swohio75 makes some excellent points. |
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over the hill ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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Would sw75 be trampling on someone's civil rights if they follow those tactics? Just asking.
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Vivian Moon ![]() MUSA Council ![]() Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Processor |
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Bocephus ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() Joined: Jun 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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processor ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: May 07 2013 Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Ms. Moon,
Maybe you're right about the section 8 and Middletown can't get rid of it. I've done a little bit of research and have only found other communities that are trying to reduce their section 8, but I haven't found any that have figured out how to do it. I just hope that Middletown is able to find a way. I'm not willing to accept that the Federal government has the right to dictate to a city what they can and can't do with housing. I am not defending city council. There is absolutely no doubt that there were major screw ups in the past and they asked for what they got and now there is a mess that needs to be cleaned up. We just disagree about getting rid of section 8. I'd like to see it significantly reduced in Middletown and am convinced that there is a way. You would like to see it, at least stay at the same level, and maybe expanded and are convinced that there is no way to get rid of it. No I'm not Hitler I'm more of a libertarian who happens to care about Middletown. I give a lot to charity and do my best to help others. However, I don't give so much that I put my business in jeopardy because then I couldn't help anyone. I have become convinced that the road to prosperity is blocked, at least made more difficult, by the inordinate amount of section 8 in Middletown. I think that it's worth the effort to do our best to reduce it otherwise we'll continue in the downward cycle that I described earlier. |
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Perplexed ![]() MUSA Citizen ![]() Joined: Apr 22 2009 Status: Offline Points: 315 |
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Question: Should the city be successful in reducing Housing Choice Vouchers by upwards of 1,000 as stated, will there be a commensurate decline in market rents, property conditions and owner-occupancy in Ward 2 and parts of Ward 1 in particular?
Question: Should the city be successful in reducing Housing Choice Vouchers by upwards of 1,000 as stated, will the city continue its' residential demolition blitzkrieg in Ward 2 and parts of Ward 1 in particular? Question: Should the city be successful in reducing Housing Choice Voucher units by upwards of 1,000 as stated, will the city upgrade housing rehabilitation and homeownership promotion activities in Ward 2 and parts of Ward 1 to 2007-2008 levels once again? What say you Mr. Adkins and Mr. Fooks? |
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