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Friday, April 19, 2024 |
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Downtown Revitalization Study |
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wasteful 
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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 Posted: Aug 01 2009 at 6:21pm |
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accuro same reason most businesses fail poor management, lack of Capital......but overall poor management seems to be an overwhelming factor in Middletown. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Aug 01 2009 at 7:32pm |
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The story of I do not believe this new revitalization plan is the answer.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Aug 02 2009 at 8:36am |
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Ahh, but Vivian, attempts were made to persuade the City Commission in the 80's to think about the theme of non-reliance on Armco.(Mike-Spider- it was about the same time that they were discussing making the old Montgomery Ward building the new post office as Bill Donham winked at me about that as if to say, "we've got everything under control") Letters To The Editor were written, the letter was read to Commission at the meeting and letters were handed to then, member Bill Donham at a city commission meeting suggesting diversification of the town's industries outside the realm of the steel/paper industries. The theme was the classic old "don't put all your eggs in one basket." Because it came from old "Joe ordinary citizen" and because the Commission mindset then, (and the Council mindset now) was "what do these mere citizens know- we have all the answers", it was blown off as another "disgruntled" citizen trying in vain to express their opinions. I know this as I was the writer and I handed it to Donham. Still have the copy. When people ask why some of us "seasoned" citizens are so negative and always find the bad in city leadership, this is a classic example of the answer. As to the life support comment- city making difficult decisions and the revitalization plan being the answer- IMO, we won't see one indication of any problem solving, any new logical progressive ideas, any streets being repaired, any schools improving, any property increasing in price, any businesses locating to town, any decent paying jobs coming to town ---- none of that happening- UNTIL we excise the cancer that is causing all of these problems- and that cancer is the leadership with their current mindset and lack of real direction. Clean house in November !!! Don't buy retread tires- try some new ones.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Aug 02 2009 at 9:25am |
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Viet What I don't understand is why the local business men let this type of thinking at City Hall continue year after year.
Hmmm...Talking about the Post Office…Where are they planning to build the New Post Office within this new downtown business core? |
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Aug 02 2009 at 9:57am |
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Vivian the same reason the Citizens sit by and just stare like a deer in headlights. You have Spider on here, Pacman who seems to be AWOL or maybe back in the Hospital, John Beagle and crew and a few others I am sure and everyone basically agrees with the problems but Buisnessmen and Citizens alike can't seem to come together on anything to do anything.
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drumford
MUSA Immigrant 
Joined: Oct 22 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Posted: Aug 13 2009 at 12:31am |
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I would like to offer a slightly different perspective on this whole "the downtown is dead" thing. My wife and I purchased a building downtown three and a half years ago, in fact you can't get any closer to the heart of downtown than our building unless you could get a floor in one of Perry's high rises. Did the city help us? Yes, before we could move in we needed a variance on its commercial zoning so we could live here. We submitted the request to the city, they took it to council where I was able to watch in person and they unamimously approved our occupency. The third floor of our building was black, open and barren, it was an old warehouse. Fortunately for us there were living quarters already on the second floor and that is where we lived for two years until we could finish building out the third floor. It took that long because my wife and I did it ourselves except for having the hvac and plumbing installed by professionals. More than one person we met let us know about a grant that was available to business owners to assist with the restoration of the front of our building. So we applied for it but we really needed a new roof, not a new front to our building. We discussed it with the city people who handle that grant and they approved it, we now have a new roof with a lifetime warranty. If we live here for another couple of years we won't have to repay that grant. I know this may sound like the city is being unfriendly to businesses but it worked out for us. I can tell you the downtown is not dead, there is more life down here than you might realize. Some world class skate boarders hang out in the parking garage especially when it rains. At first we were worried that they might damage our cars but they never have. They just skateboard and hang out and have a good time. We kind of like the fact that there is some place for them to go. But that's not the only good place for them. Our friends Ed and Debby down the street purchased the Sorg Opera House and have provided a great place for young people to hang out. There is a huge rec room with pool tables and air hockey and such. They have bands playing out of every crack and crevice. They show movies in the theater. Its great. You know its important to hang on to your youth if you want your city to stay alive. When we first moved here there wasn't too much happening but last year and this year some of the best parties showed up just down the street on Wednesday evenings. Way cool. You know your town is dead when they throw a huge bash like that right at your door step.
Some people we met when we first started looking for our building have opend a little Bistro a few doors down, they make a sandwich called an Italian Crustini, man is that a great sandwich!! I feel a little out of place when I go in there as I am usually in shorts and a t-shirt and they are a little on the upper crust side you know but my daughter loves the place.
Right behind our building is a large building that used to be a department store where all these bands practice. Man can those guys rock. I know because I used to play in rock bands for about eleven years and they remind me of those days. I can tell you there is plenty of life in that building.
Our friends Jay and Linda have a stained glass factory across the street and down from us. Did you know that the largest stained glass factory in the country was right in the heart of our dead downtown? We've been there a lot, their art is absolutely world class.
We helped a friend named Linda put on a little art demonstration this spring at the Middletown Arts Center which is a block and half behind us. A man named Kevin Macpherson came to show the local and not so local artists how to see light and dark in a picture and make it seem real. We were able to help them make it easier to see by projecting it on two screens. Would you believe it, right here in our own dead town was a legitimate American Master painter, who would have thought?
When we first moved here we didn't know many people and as we met some we did notice that there seemed to be factions, you know cliques or gangs. Some of these people told us if we hung out with the other people that we would never do business in this town which was ok because the bulk of our work came from Dayton and Cincinnati, this location allowed us easy access to both. But you know, we ended up doing a lot of work here in town. Once people got to know us they realized that it really didn't matter who else we knew. We in turn were able to hire local talent for our television commercials and marketing projects, did you know that this dead town has some outrageous musicians? Our friend Jay definitely being one of them.
One thing we were very shocked about is that this dead town doesn't recycle. We came from a place where we sorted trash from cans and plastic, put them in bins and the waste collection company took them and recycled them cutting down on the waste. But I discoverd one day early on that there were people who would come to your dumpster and get all those old cans for you! REALLY! They show up in cars or pickup trucks and jump inside the dumpster, get every last can out and take it down to be recycled. Man that is service. At first I was a little unnerved about it but then I realized what a valuable service these folks provided. Its honest work.
Anyway I wanted to mention that there is a river close to us with a bike path. Just down the street is a huge park where they have hot air balloon races each summer. and just behind us a couple blocks in the city plaza they hold an Intenational festival each year. My wife and I volunteer for Middfest and have really enjoyed all the really great people who are involved with it.
So, from someone who actually lives downtown I can tell you there is more life down here than you might realize. But we would appreciate it if you would keep telling the world how dead it is so we can keep this little corner of paradise for ourselves.
Your neighbors
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The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open.
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Leo Gorcey
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Aug 07 2009 Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Posted: Aug 13 2009 at 1:32am |
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Mr. Rumford -
I was the Community Development Administrator for the City when you applied for assistance to improve the exterior of your building. At that time we offered $5,000 as a grant with additional assistance available via a low-interest loan. Skip Batten from my staff was the contact person who worked with you.
I hope that your business is thriving!
Nelson Self
CD Administrator
(1/2007 - 1/2009)
P.S. My staff never bothered to tell me that he made a modification to the guidelines of this exterior facade improvement program. I am glad that your roof was repaired.
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drumford
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Oct 22 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Posted: Aug 13 2009 at 10:55pm |
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Yes Skip was very easy to work with but there was one funny story. When we realized that the roof was leaking we contacted the vendor who had just done a foam based job for the building's previous owner. It supposedly had a fifteen year warranty but the vendor made numerous excuses why he couldn't honor his work so we went to the city to ask about what permit was required and did they know there were unscrupulous characters on their apporved list of vendors. I was informed that the city did not require a permit for a roof repair/upgrade. New construction of a roof, yes but not your typical reshingle job. So we said oh, ok, oh well, let the buyer beware. So when we selected a professional to do the work and got everything setup with Skip he said all we needed was a permit. I told him the city didn't require one for roof work and he was at first adament about it but when I said the city couldn't have it both ways he agreed and all was good in the world. I can say that I picked up a list of approved vendors and we selected all contractors from Middletown and they were all top notch, excellent people to work with. One of them even noticed our rod iron stair well had a loose link and called a buddy he knew to come over and weld it, we didn't even ask them to do that.
My point is with these two responses is there is so much good going on in and around the city that we should try to build on that and stop all this laying of blame and wanting people removed from office who we just elected to be there. The downtown is and will continue to become a new kind of place funded by those who want to come here and give it a shot. There are some excellent initiatives going on to do things and although the progress is slow it is moving. The great big brown building by the bend west of Verity that had all the broken windows and dead birds in it has been purchased by a father and son and they completely replaced all the windows and are actively cleaning it up and rebuilding the inside. I can tell you from someone who lives down here and sees what goes on all the time that there are people looking at the buildings and considering the possibilities. Ms Adrianne is a tenent of ours and I can tell you she works very hard every day to get people interested in coming here. She and a few others were responsible for my family coming here. Although we don't have anything to do with her business I can tell you she works hard to get people to think about what's possible for the downtown. That's how the downtown will flourish. We bought our building for a lot less than a smaller building would have cost us in Miamisburg or Springboro. We looked for two years before we found this one and we got a good deal on it. There is a lot of potential down here but its going to be done by those with a vision and a will to do it. It doesn't help when so many want to sit by the sidelines and heckle and pronounce the downtown dead instead of making a difference for someting they believe in. We don't intend to make the whole downtown beautiful again, we're just going to make our little piece of it nicer. Just as our neighbors have made theirs nicer. As time goes on a lot of people will make the whole thing nicer.
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The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open.
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen
Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Posted: Aug 13 2009 at 11:31pm |
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With all due respect, doesn't most of the Cheer Leading about how great the downtown is usually come from someone like yourself who has a Financial interest to protect? There is nothing happening there that is not Financially supported by Tax dollars. In all honesty, would you be trying to restore a building in the downtown if you were Financially on your own to do so without any Tax payer money helping to finance the Resto? I doubt it! I guess I have to ask myself just how much Cash are We willing to put into the Down Town. The numbers so far (for the last 35 years any way) are quite staggering! I certainly don't blame you for any of your actions and wish you luck on the Resto! |
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Leo Gorcey
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Aug 07 2009 Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Posted: Aug 14 2009 at 1:34am |
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Didn't this City employee obtain three separate sealed contractor bids as is the requirement? When you discovered that an unscrupulous contractor was on the City's eligible bidder list, what did this public servant do to make them honor their warranty for workmanship and materials done for the previous owner?
You may not know it Mr. Rumford, but your recollections have opened a new can of worms regarding the City of Middletown. This City employee worked very closely with the deparment head on matters like this. Your project was funded with HUD Urban Development Action Grant (UDAG) funds. I wish that I had learned of this sooner. Thank you!
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Leo Gorcey
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Aug 07 2009 Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Posted: Aug 14 2009 at 1:54am |
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UDAG was the source of HUD funds tapped to help the owners of the Manchester Inn, Quizno's, Sassy Scissors and the stain glass operation earlier in this decade. As of one year ago there was $40,000 plus in arrears owed by the owners of one of those properties. In two other cases businesses went out of business following the HUD assistance. Mr. Richter knows about these matters and will presumably write about it soon?
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Aug 14 2009 at 5:43am |
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Can this area make a comeback in some fashion? I actually believe that it can, IF YOUR recipe is followed, Sir! But the obstacle is NOT those who "pronounce the downtown dead instead of making a difference for something they believe in." No, Sir, the BIGGEST obstacle is the city bureaucrats FORCING others to try to make a difference by paying for something that they do NOT want and do NOT believe in!!!YOU tell ME, Mr. Rumsford. Which has the greater chance of success: 1. A venture entered into by people who BELIEVE in it, and have invested their OWN hard-earned money and sweat into it? OR 2. A venture decided upon by bureaucrats based upon absolutely NO known economic analyses or study, and entered into by people with THEIR money sheltered from loss, and financed with money confiscated from people against their will, most of whom have not yet been born??? You see, Mr. Rumsford, the first case is what I and the others would applaud, and YOU seemed to agree with when YOU stated: “The downtown is and will continue to become a new kind of place FUNDED by those who want to come here and give it a shot.” Perhaps not the “center of business and commerce”, but “a new kind of place!!!” And NOT decided upon by the bureaucrats at City Hall and financed by the unpaid taxes levied upon our children and grandchildren, but “FUNDED by those who want to come here and give it a shot” as you, yourself, stated Sir! And I sincerely hope that those entrepreneurs who do so will live long and happily and prosper!!!
Sir, we “critics” have given you an area with the NEWEST streets, curbs, sidewalks, water mains, and streetlights in our entire city!!! We have paid for brand new store-fronts at the street and second levels. We have made available, by your own admission, some of the most reasonable commercial real estate this side of the Ohio and Miami Rivers. We are also TRYING to get the city officials out of YOUR businesses!!! We have done so while watching our own homes sink in value, and our retirements slide into oblivion. I somehow fail to see how we have not done enough. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Leo Gorcey
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Aug 07 2009 Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Posted: Aug 14 2009 at 7:03am |
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Mr. Rumford -
I ask you to sincerely consider the sentiments stated by Mike Presta. Those of us who know him recognize that he is a realistic and not a glad-handed spender of our children's and grandchildren's shrinking future wealth.
NRS
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drumford
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Oct 22 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Posted: Aug 17 2009 at 11:31am |
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With all due respect, doesn't most of the Cheer Leading about how great the downtown is usually come from someone like yourself who has a Financial interest to protect? Yes, I would hope that those who have invested in the downtown would be its leading cheerleaders. As I stated the Facade grant was the only money ever offered or accepted by the city and accounts for less than two percent of our investment. We were not aware of it when we purchased our building and didn't accept it until over a year later. So it did not play a role in our decision to buy this property and if I was to have it re-assessed most likely has gone down in value just as most in the area have. At the same time we sunk quite a bit more rennovating the third floor and also replacing the roof top commercial air handler. As also was stated above this was a federal grant, no money came from city coffers. However over the last three and a half years I have been taxed by the city quite a bit more than this grant value. Outside of that the city provides the public infrastructure support they provide everyone else. If there are big city dollars going out to the folks in the downtown they skipped me. I am financially on my own with this project, happy with my decision and happy to live here. I just wanted to share a different perspective on the downtown and a little tired of hearing how dead it is when I can see progress being made all around. Thanks for the well wishes with our success, maybe someday you will be able to say you are proud of what has been done down here and how the downtown was revitalized. |
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The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open.
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drumford
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Oct 22 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Posted: Aug 17 2009 at 12:26pm |
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Mr. Presta, FYI there is no "s" in Rumford, many people associate our name with a previous secretary of defense which we would hope to distance ourselves from. So I have heard that there have been many initiatives by the city of Middletown to do something about the downtown and using tax payer dollars to do it. Things like the mall and Lake mistake which I am sure you have valid reason to be critical of. I wonder if either of these initiatives were successful what your position would be? I don't believe this older downtown will ever be the "center of commerce" again and wasn't under the impression it would need to be. The center of commerce today is the Interstate or the Internet so you can see the city's desire to promote the east end is supported by financial data that makes sense. Yet there is still this older downtown area that has some great resources going unused. Other communities are in the same situation that don't have half the resources this downtown has but they like ours have found other ways to make it useful again.
You will need to educate me on where the city is pouring money into the downtown these days, there is a new park but that was also federally funded. The city owes it to its constituents to promote growth all over the city through the use of creative financial incentives or tax breaks but not through direct investment. Who is the city investing in that our grand children will need to be paying for? What store fronts were invested in by the city's money and not federal grant money? If you say this is still your tax dollars being spent on downtown then I say I would rather it gets spent here than in someone elses city.
The only city issues I am aware of are those mentioned by Ms Scherrer which would be light industry being denied. I wonder how ANY business could be denied in this ecconomy so if they are then you should protest this and make it an issue for the next election. Then elect people who will do what is right for the city.
You mention those reasonable commercial rates, I wasn't aware the city was responsible for this, I purchased this building from a private individual and the only involvement by the city was approving our variance request so we could live here. I believe this is the same situation with Ed and Debbie who purchased the Sorg Opera house. The rates were reasonable because no one wanted to buy property here. So if there is a lot of city dollars being invested they aren't being invested here.
As far as city officials being in our business, there has only been ONE who has ever set foot in our studio although more have visited Ms Adrianne.
I do respect your concerns Mike and enjoy the dialog and the respect shown there. But the taxpayers did not help me with reasonable property prices, the exodus from Middletown did that. The tax payers on a national level provided one $5,000 grant to assist us (not city money). Thier rate of return has already been payed back in personal and business taxes many times over. This grant is available to you as well if you want to do what we did. I do hear you when it comes to keeping bureaucrats out of my business so if they ever show up I will call you. If you know of the city investing in anyone's personal business please let me know as I too would like to know how that works.
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The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open.
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drumford
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Oct 22 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Posted: Aug 17 2009 at 12:37pm |
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Three bids were obtained, the lowest was accepted. The unscrupulous contractor was previous to our purchase and when I advised the lady in the city planning department about this vendor she responded that the city merely kept a list of local licensed contractors but did not endorse them. Since no permit is required for roof repairs she said it was a private matter. I have every reason to believe Skip Batan did everything required of him in this matter. He indicated the way we used the money was well within the guidelines for its use.
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The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open.
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drumford
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Oct 22 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Posted: Aug 17 2009 at 12:47pm |
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I do value his and others comments. I believe by talking about the issues with one another we get a clearer understanding of the truth and this provides a chance for better decisions. If there are some getting city tax money invested in thier businesses, or thier property made cheaper to buy or if the citizens of this city have invested in my property I would like to know where that is as its not showing up on my bottom line. I am not saying it couldn't be happening, I am just saying it didn't happen for me and I am not aware of it happening for someone else down here.
I can't speak to those who have recieved the facade grant money and then had their business fail or they failed to make payments. Our commitments have been honored.
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The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Aug 17 2009 at 3:11pm |
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First and foremost, I do apologize for misspelling your name. I assure you that it was a careless, but honest, mistake and no disrespect was intended. I will respond to the remainder of this 12:26 pm post later as I do not have time to do so right now. Next, I am unsure if your 11:31 am post was directed towards me or not. If it was, I am confused. Please confirm. Thank you. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Mar 07 2015 at 9:39am |
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wow---we were pretty smart back then--even spider--lol
seems worse off with less optimism now, esp after realizing where it is transgressed since and--if u read my post on 6/11 12:13pm, you will read the comment that caused me to be removed from a board member of the MCF(with pressure from the city manager in cahoots with MCF leadership to turn MCF in to the admin's piggy bank) the whole area reminds me of a dog chasing his tail--never travels anywhere and never reaches the goal. Which raises our perennial ?: How long will this go on, and how much $$ will we keep throwing at it? Amazingly many of the faces have changed, but the answer is still the same: FOREVER whether anything works or not If the private sector can't make it work to any greater degree, then probably nothing at any cost will help enough Signage in the area exemplifies the never-ending mantra "COMING SOON" signs that have been in place now for years....... Full credit to all who have tried and used their own $$ and faith bless them You simply can't make people go somewhere or do something that they simply don't want do or where they choose to go nothing has changed |
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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Posted: Mar 07 2015 at 12:11pm |
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WOW! That was an interesting trip down memory lane. Kind of shows again why the former city manager was SO toxic to our city. IMO.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Mar 07 2015 at 1:10pm |
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Spider
I was shocked when I reread all the remarks about pouring more money into THEIR DOWNTOWN. So now we have spent millions of dollars and how many jobs have we created in THEIR DOWNTOWN? A better question might be..how many jobs have left THEIR DOWNTOWN AREA? How many property taxes were lost in THEIR DOWNTOWN AREA? And the new plan is still just like the old plan...more money to be invested in THEIR DOWNTOWN They do not care about the real needs of the community. |
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