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Goodbye Target in Middletown

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Bocephus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2014 at 5:39pm
Yes we have a tainted name a good game plan in my mind would be to start marketing this town to business on other aspects like location, labor pool etc... And get their head out of the past we can't go back to the 50s or 60s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2014 at 5:41pm
Did any one notice that Bass pro is building a new store just south of us? Were our leaders even aware of this? What a plus something like Bass pro could have been for this town and why not Middletown is close to Dayton and cinci market.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote da120757 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2014 at 5:55pm
It was in the paper before Christmas about Bass Pro.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 1:24am
They should just bulldoze all useless buildings in Middletown, a good place to start would be the city building.
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Posted: 4:46 p.m. Sunday, Jan. 12, 2014

Residents oppose decision to close neighborhood Target stores

By Amanda Seitz

Staff Writer

MIDDLETOWN —

Local residents took to social media this weekend pleading for Target Corp. officials to reconsider their decision to shutter the Target store in Middletown and Trotwood.

Company officials announced Friday their plans to close, by May 3, eight stores nationwide, including the shopping centers located in Middletown at 6775 Roosevelt Parkway and in Trotwood at 2800 Shiloh Springs Road.

Disappointed shoppers used Facebook and other websites to convince company officials to change their minds. A Facebook group called ‘Save Middletown Target’ had more than 2,200 members by Saturday. Several of the group’s members urged other followers to call Target’s home offices in Minneapolis to appeal to officials there. One follower even suggested Middletown residents stop shopping at other stores to boost sales at the soon-to-be closed Target.

“We all may be small in comparison to a major company like Target … but fighting for this could make a big difference to a town many of us love very much,” Amie Earls wrote on the group’s Facebook page.

Rebecca Luebbe of Middletown, who was shopping Saturday afternoon at Target, said she was surprised to hear of the Middletown supermarket’s closing.

“My friends are big Target shoppers,” Luebbe said. “It’s kind of sad for the community because (in) Middletown, things keep closing and closing.”

Hours after the retailer announced closure plans, a petition on the website change.org begged corporate heads to keep the store running appeared.

“We need to keep good business in Middletown, Ohio, open,” the petition reads.

As of Saturday, nearly 800 people had signed the online petition. Some who signed the petition shared details about their shopping experience at the Middletown Target.

“My pharmacy is here,” Teri Gibson, who signed the petition, wrote on the website. “They know mine and my husband’s medical needs and have really been very helpful in keeping our meds in stock. The employees at this store are wonderful.”

Target spokeswoman Stefanie Mohr reiterated over the weekend that a “decision to close a Target store is not made lightly.”

Target currently operates nearly 1,800 stores across the U.S.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 12:21pm
"Rebecca Luebbe of Middletown, who was shopping Saturday afternoon at Target, said she was surprised to hear of the Middletown supermarket’s closing"

OK, ISN'T TARGET MORE OF A VARIETY BIG BOX STORE RATHER THAN A SUPERMARKET?

"A Facebook group called ‘Save Middletown Target’ had more than 2,200 members by Saturday"

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, 2200 PEOPLE OUT OF A CITY OF 48,000 ISN'T GOING TO IMPRESS THEM NOR CHANGE THEIR MINDS. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE MONEY. IF THE STORE MADE ENOUGH MONEY FOR THE CORPORATE FOLKS IN MINNESOTA, THIS WOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE OF THIS COMMUNITY.....JUST THEIR MONEY AND IF THE MONEY ISN'T THERE, IN THE QUANTITIES THEY PROJECT, THEY ARE LEAVING. THIS COMMUNITY SIMPLY DOESN'T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO SUPPORT STORES LIKE THIS ON AN ON-GOING BASIS. LOW WAGES, NOT ENOUGH DISCRETIONARY SPENDING GOING ON HERE TO KEEP MONEY IN THE PIPELINE TO STIMULATE GROWTH. AGAIN, FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME, BETTER PAYING JOBS IN MIDDLETOWN WOULD BE A SOLUTION. THEY WILL COME AND STAY IF THE PEOPLE HAVE THE MONEY TO SPEND.

IT IS AS GOOD AS GONE I BELIEVE. NOW, IT FALLS IN THE LAP OF THE ECON. DEV. DEPT. AND HAMET. LET'S HOPE SHE FINDS A NEW TENANT FASTER THAH SHE FOUND ONE FOR THE OLD K-MART.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

"Rebecca Luebbe of Middletown, who was shopping Saturday afternoon at Target, said she was surprised to hear of the Middletown supermarket’s closing"
 NOW, IT FALLS IN THE LAP OF THE ECON. DEV. DEPT. AND HAMET. LET'S HOPE SHE FINDS A NEW TENANT FASTER THAH SHE FOUND ONE FOR THE OLD K-MART.


It's also in the lap of the building's owner (in this case, I believe according to Warren County records is Dayton-Hudson's which is Target's former parent whom now is part of Macys). Assuming the building is owned by Target (unless Dayton Hudsons still exists as a real estate holding company), I cannot imagine they will be quick to fill the space with another retailer. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 2:01pm
The one thing going for re-development is that the building is not that old, since it was built in the 90's, and it is near I-75.

What do you think could go in the old spot?
Sam's Club, Costco, Menards, Home Depot, Best Buy,?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 2:23pm
City folks are probably saying "Wow, Didn't see that one coming"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by ktf1179 ktf1179 wrote:

The one thing going for re-development is that the building is not that old, since it was built in the 90's, and it is near I-75.

What do you think could go in the old spot?
Sam's Club, Costco, Menards, Home Depot, Best Buy,?




SQ. FOOTAGE OF TARGET ISN'T ENOUGH FOR ANY OF THESE STORES IS IT? TOO CLOSE TO LOWES FOR RIVAL HOME DEPOT/MENARDS TO LOCATE, RIGHT?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FmrMide81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 4:25pm
Well, that magnificent retail establishment "Weekend Emporium" moved into their last abandoned store-that's probably about the best you're gonna' get into this one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote processor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 4:49pm
Dayton Hudson Corp sold all of their "non discount" department stores to Federated and changed their name to Target. Target trades on the NYSE. Dayton Hudson doesn't exist anymore. Target must own the property that their store is on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 5:04pm
Why don't these 'fake outrage' followers take to social media and have the city of Middletown pave streets?
Hypocritical endeavors.
 
There will be no major retailer moving there. 3rd Costco is being built in Centreville. Open this summer. I drive to Traders Joe, stop on way down at Krogers and Dorothy Lane at Austin Reed exit, then drive to Hunter IGA for their pizza and salad.
 
Get real cyber nuts, drive 20 minutes where the Target selection is 5x by Mall or W Chester. Perhaps spending a little more time shopping and spending would have been the proper solution?
 
As always...reactionary.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trotwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 5:10pm
^Don't know how "fake" the outrage is here. The Cincinnati Streetcar got back on track with 11,000 signatures. 2,000 likes can lead to some bad press, possibly enough to get the decision reversed.

The only issue with their current tactic is that they want BOTH the Trotwood and Middletown stores to stay open. The two campaigns should be separated, if anything. Trotwood could possibly keep their store through playing the race card, and Middletown's best shot is probably through betting on sprawl to the east and south. In particular, advocates should utilize the fact that Monroe is SW Ohio's fastest growing community, and is only growing as a selling point for keeping the store.
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Quote They should just bulldoze all useless buildings in Middletown, a good place to start would be the city building

A good place to start would be AK STEEL.

That place is what is shooting Middletown in the foot. I grew up in Middletown, and that monster probably caused me and my family irreplaceable harm through the air pollution it spewed. People don't want to move places where the risk of getting cancer unnecessarily is elevated, like by disgusting steel plants in Middletown.

If AK was demolished and its site remediated, imagine how much better the air and water quality in Middletown would be. And imagine what could be built there - a new Cincinnati-Dayton regional airport, a massive business park logistics hub (like what is in the southwest corner of West Chester Twp), and so on. Middletown doesn't need AK steel.

Kill it and people will come back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 5:32pm
Wrong T, on multiple fonts.
 
Private donations and a commitment to fund costs privately for 10 years is what got the street car gig running.
 
Agree about pollution, but kill AKS, its about doing that with its stock valuation, and Middletown is Detroit, will it is headed there...the movement is simply sooner.
 
I assure you a twitter and change. org will have no mitigating effect on Target. Perhaps edge innovation for items, but not p/l analysis. Their models have been run (regression analysis 5 years forward.
 
Most can handle the drive 15 minutes due N or S. 
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 3:38am
Originally posted by Trotwood Trotwood wrote:

Quote They should just bulldoze all useless buildings in Middletown, a good place to start would be the city building



A good place to start would be AK STEEL.

That place is what is shooting Middletown in the foot. I grew up in Middletown, and that monster probably caused me and my family irreplaceable harm through the air pollution it spewed. People don't want to move places where the risk of getting cancer unnecessarily is elevated, like by disgusting steel plants in Middletown.

If AK was demolished and its site remediated, imagine how much better the air and water quality in Middletown would be. And imagine what could be built there - a new Cincinnati-Dayton regional airport, a massive business park logistics hub (like what is in the southwest corner of West Chester Twp), and so on. Middletown doesn't need AK steel.

Kill it and people will come back.


FUNNY, I'VE LIVED IN MIDDLETOWN FOR DECADES MYSELF AND I SEE (AND REMEMBER) ARMCO (AK) IN A DIFFERENT LIGHT.

ARMCO BUILT THIS TOWN. IN THE 50'S AND 60'S, WHEN THIS TOWN WAS BEING RUN CORRECTLY, AND WAS A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE, ARMCO MADE IT ALL POSSIBLE. THE COMPANY PROVIDED THE BEST WAGES/STANDARD OF LIVING IN THE AREA, EVEN HIGHER THAN THE PAPER MILLS. IT ALLOWED PEOPLE WITH A HIGH SCHOOL (AND NON-HIGH SCHOOL) EDUCATION TO LIVE WELL BEYOND THEIR EDUCATION LEVELS AND IN AREAS OF TOWN WHERE MANAGERS LIVED IF THEY CHOSE TO DO SO. IN THE 50'S AND 60'S, THERE WAS ORANGE IRON OXIDE ALL OVER EVERYTHING IN TOWN. HOWEVER, SINCE THE EPA CLAMPED DOWN ON THIS POLLUTION, AND ARMCO/AK INSTALLED SCRUBBERS ON THE STACKS, THE AIR HAS NEVER BEEN CLEANER AROUND HERE.

EVEN TODAY, IN THE ANEMIC STATE AK STEEL IS IN, COMPARED TO YESTERYEAR, IT MAKES A CONTRIBUTION, ALBEIT A MUCH SMALLER ONE TO THE COMMUNITY WHILE ALL THE PAPER MILLS HAVE LONG VANISHED. AK PROVIDES THE ONLY DECENT WAGES IN THIS CITY.

EVEN IF YOU BULLDOZED AK, THE POLLUTION IN THE SOIL WOULD MAKE THE SITE A HAZARD FOR DECADES TO COME AND WOULD BE UNINHABITABLE FOR ANY NEW DEVELOPMENT. IMO, ALL YOU WOULD DO IS CREATE ANOTHER OPEN SPACE/"BROWN" SPACE, WHICH WE DON'T NEED HERE. GILLELAND AND HER CREW ARE DOING ENOUGH DAMAGE WITH THEIR "GREEN SPACE BLITZKREIG" WITHOUT ADDING TO THE OPEN SPACES AROUND HERE. NO, YOU TAKE AK OUT OF HERE AND THERE IS NO ATTRACTION AT ALL FOR JOB SEEKERS. WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN THE IMPACT OF THE GENERAL OFFICE PEOPLE AND RESEARCH LEAVING TOWN. YOU TAKE THE MAIN PLANT OUT OF HERE AND THE TOWN GOES WITH IT OVERNIGHT.

ON THE CONTRARY, "KILL IT AND PEOPLE WILL COME BACK" WILL NOT HAPPEN. MORE LIKE "KILL IT AND REMOVE ALL CHANCES FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE A SHOT AT DECENT PAYING EMPLOYMENT HERE". IF YOU TAKE AK OUT OF THE PICTURE, THE WAGE SCALE SLIDES DOWN TO CASHIER AT FAMILY DOLLAR WAGES, GAS STATION ATTENDANT AND CONVENIENT STORE WAGES/RETAIL AND FAST FOOD WAGE SCALES.....QUITE A GAP BETWEEN WHAT AK PAYS AND WHAT THE OTHER CHOICES IN TOWN PAY.

CANCER? THE MIAMI VALLEY HAS BEEN A SOURCE OF CANCER CONTACT FOR DECADES. ISN'T ALL CONTRIBUTED TO AK STEEL. MANY INDUSTRIES AROUND TO HELP ESCALATE THE CANCER RATE HERE. WE ARE AN INDUSTRIAL STATE AND WITH THE USE OF CHEMICALS, WE ARE PRONE TO CANCER CONTACT. GOES WITH THE TERRITORY.

AND PRAY TELL, WHAT WOULD THEY BUILD A NEW "CINCY-DAYTON AIRPORT" ON THAT SITE FOR? YA GOT A 7000 FT RUNWAY AT HOOK WITH MINIMAL ACTIVITY AND THE DAYTON AND CINCY AIRPORTS ARE LESS THAN AN HOUR AWAY. WHAT WOULD BE THE PURPOSE OF PLACING A FACILITY LIKE THAT HERE?

A BUSINESS PARK? SEE ABOVE FOR SOIL CLEANUP PREP BEFORE BUILDING. PLUS THE LOCATION TO I-75 ISN'T THE MOST IDEAL EITHER, RIGHT?

IMO, MIDDLETOWN DOES STILL NEED AK, EVEN IN THE SCALED DOWN VERSION. OTHERWISE, THERE GOES A MAJOR PORTION OF CITY TAXES COLLECTED IN PROPERTY AND PAYROLL AND THERE GOES AK'S CONTRIBUTION TO THE CITY. MIDDLETOWN IS A BLUE COLLARED STEEL TOWN FOREMOST. NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF THERE. THE CITY LEADERS JUST NEED TO FIND REPLACEMENTS FOR WHAT HAS LEFT OR GONE OUT OF BUSINESS SINCE THE 70'S TO GO ALONG WITH AK. THEY HAVE FAILED MISERABLY SINCE THE 70'S IN DOING SO.    
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 4:36pm

Target closing blamed for Towne Mall stall


By Rick McCrabb

Staff Writer

MIDDLETOWN —

Just days after Target announced it was closing eight stores, including the one in the East End of Middletown, the owner of the Towne Mall Galleria said potential major tenants are “holding back” on signing leases.

George Ragheb, one of the owners of SA Mary Ohio, which purchased the mall in October 2012, said those tenants are evaluating the prospects for retail business in the Middletown area because they’re “concerned” why Target is closing. Target is located at 6775 Roosevelt Parkway, across the street from the mall.

Target officials said last week the locations in Middletown and Trotwood near Dayton were closing in May due to “seeing several years of decreasing profitability.”

Ragheb said he was hoping to sign several “major” tenants to fill the space in the former Dillard’s location, one of the mall’s anchors. He said negotiations are “continuing” with those tenants.

He said Wigs For A Change, one of the 11 new businesses that opened last year, has left the mall, and other retailers haven’t renewed their leases. He said another merchant signed a new lease, at a higher rate, and four tenants are considering opening mall locations.

Still, he said, he hopes to build several outlot spaces, in the 4,000-square-foot range. He called negotiations with three potential tenants “very, very close.” In September 2013, Ragheb described negotiations with major tenants the same way, but that was before Target’s announcement. He expected to name those tenants by the end 2013. Now that’s on hold, he said.

He believes once leases have been signed for the outlots and construction begins, the “big tenants” will move forward and finalize their leases.

When asked about business at the mall during the holidays, Ragheb described it as “excellent,” though he said some retailers reported lower sales than expected.

“All of my news is not excellent,” he said. “I want to be honest with you.”

Melody Palmer, owner of All About You Catering and Bakery, said foot traffic at the mall is “very slow,” though that’s typical after the holidays.

“It’s really quiet in here,” she said Tuesday afternoon.

Since she’s a caterer, Palmer said 10 percent of her sales are generated at the mall.

She hopes new tenants, whenever they come, generate enthusiasm and shoppers to the mall.

“I’m not giving up yet,” she said.

Ragheb said his company remains “committed” to the Towne Mall. The group has spent $3.3 million purchasing the 465,451-square-foot mall and other properties. They spent $850,000 on the mall, $1.2 million on Dillard’s and $1.25 million on Elder-Beerman. The land and building were valued at $9.48 million, the auditor’s office said.

“We knew the risks we were taking on,” he said. “But we don’t see any red lights flashing. There will be a lot of positives coming our way in the next 30 days.”


Since the sale of Towne Mall Galleria more than one year ago, The Journal-News has covered the latest developments of the deal with in-depth stories. Count on us to continue this coverage of the mall and its impact on the Butler County economy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 5:15pm
Hmmm...
 
Amazing it a period of a few days, the big box potential retailers had expressed concerns associated with the Target store.
 
Furthermore, why would not a big box retailer if they had the models for foot traffic, move into the Mall, when they have more presence in the Target location? Preferable to have their own space, as the foot traffic at The Mall is non existent, with exception of the 'walkers.'
 
It seems the promises for big box retailers was associated with the 'hook' for the smaller niche players, ergo, 'hold on, the big guys are coming with lots of people.'
 
Now the school wanted to move east as the highway drives people and foot traffic. Target discovered the Middletown exit doesn't drive much foot traffic nor interest. Seems there is surely, considerable spin about downtown, school needs, retail needs (the big box guys are just around the corner, don't cancel that lease), and the Atrium was going to drive a massive biomed campus.
 
I start my day every morning saying this about Middletown, its woes, and lack of foundation. A bridge sitting on quicksand.
 
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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How desperate and clueless must these new owners be to have to throw out the flimsy excuse of the Target closing?  As if these "big box" retailers don't do market research of their own.
 
And weren't we going to hear a big announcement by December 31st?
 
These scam artist clowns <--> Middletown = both deserve each other
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Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

Wrong T, on multiple fonts.
 
Private donations and a commitment to fund costs privately for 10 years is what got the street car gig running.
 
Agree about pollution, but kill AKS, its about doing that with its stock valuation, and Middletown is Detroit, will it is headed there...the movement is simply sooner.
 
I assure you a twitter and change. org will have no mitigating effect on Target. Perhaps edge innovation for items, but not p/l analysis. Their models have been run (regression analysis 5 years forward.
 
Most can handle the drive 15 minutes due N or S. 
Agreed that private donations and the commitment to fund the streetcar privately are probably what pushed Kevin Flynn, the 6th council member who was necessary to override Cranley's veto, to vote for the streetcar. But even if he would have voted against the streetcar, by this point most of Cincinnati had realized how moronic the decision to cancel that far into the project was and the national media would have begun their field day. And that would have led to a national embarrassment, with a questionable outcome. It would have been interesting to see the circus around that event, but alas I am very glad it did not happen.


And AK is weak, so it's the perfect time to kill. If Middletown plays their cards right, the site could be remediated with AK and CERCLA funding in time for the Greentree exchange. Assuming that's still probably about 10-15 years off, now would be the time to kill.

As far as the petition goes, what's the alternative? If the people of Middletown want a Target, they have to act and make it happen. A good case to keep the store open could be done using MORE regression models based on sprawl patterns in teh region and how the market surrounding the store will grow in the next 5,10 years (taht's a report Target likely didn't run, I doubt they really took the time to do a thorough analysis of the area and understand the merging of Cincinnati and Dayton).

But if Middletown citizens don't give a sh!t then they let them sit on their a$$ and do nothing. However, if they don't make an effort to have a nice town then there sure as heck shouldn't be b!tching when their town goes to sh!t. Because it is their fault, and only their fault.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trotwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

 
FUNNY, I'VE LIVED IN MIDDLETOWN FOR DECADES MYSELF AND I SEE (AND REMEMBER) ARMCO (AK) IN A DIFFERENT LIGHT.

ARMCO BUILT THIS TOWN. IN THE 50'S AND 60'S, WHEN THIS TOWN WAS BEING RUN CORRECTLY, AND WAS A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE, ARMCO MADE IT ALL POSSIBLE. THE COMPANY PROVIDED THE BEST WAGES/STANDARD OF LIVING IN THE AREA, EVEN HIGHER THAN THE PAPER MILLS. IT ALLOWED PEOPLE WITH A HIGH SCHOOL (AND NON-HIGH SCHOOL) EDUCATION TO LIVE WELL BEYOND THEIR EDUCATION LEVELS AND IN AREAS OF TOWN WHERE MANAGERS LIVED IF THEY CHOSE TO DO SO. IN THE 50'S AND 60'S, THERE WAS ORANGE IRON OXIDE ALL OVER EVERYTHING IN TOWN. HOWEVER, SINCE THE EPA CLAMPED DOWN ON THIS POLLUTION, AND ARMCO/AK INSTALLED SCRUBBERS ON THE STACKS, THE AIR HAS NEVER BEEN CLEANER AROUND HERE.

They did build Middletown. But it's not 1950, and it hasn't been for 64 years. Those jobs went abroad, and they aren't coming back. Not unless our standard of living goes way down and technological advances regress.

And agreed the air has never been cleaner. But that doesn't make it clean. 

Quote EVEN TODAY, IN THE ANEMIC STATE AK STEEL IS IN, COMPARED TO YESTERYEAR, IT MAKES A CONTRIBUTION, ALBEIT A MUCH SMALLER ONE TO THE COMMUNITY WHILE ALL THE PAPER MILLS HAVE LONG VANISHED. AK PROVIDES THE ONLY DECENT WAGES IN THIS CITY.
What about Miami University, Cincinnati State, Atrium Medical Center, Precision Strip, Kokosing, First Financial? And more could come - look at the 800 jobs coming to Moraine from Fuyao in China, the 1,000 jobs coming the Union from P&G, etc. There's a lot of potential for all new jobs without AK's death grip.

Quote EVEN IF YOU BULLDOZED AK, THE POLLUTION IN THE SOIL WOULD MAKE THE SITE A HAZARD FOR DECADES TO COME AND WOULD BE UNINHABITABLE FOR ANY NEW DEVELOPMENT. IMO, ALL YOU WOULD DO IS CREATE ANOTHER OPEN SPACE/"BROWN" SPACE, WHICH WE DON'T NEED HERE. GILLELAND AND HER CREW ARE DOING ENOUGH DAMAGE WITH THEIR "GREEN SPACE BLITZKREIG" WITHOUT ADDING TO THE OPEN SPACES AROUND HERE. NO, YOU TAKE AK OUT OF HERE AND THERE IS NO ATTRACTION AT ALL FOR JOB SEEKERS. WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN THE IMPACT OF THE GENERAL OFFICE PEOPLE AND RESEARCH LEAVING TOWN. YOU TAKE THE MAIN PLANT OUT OF HERE AND THE TOWN GOES WITH IT OVERNIGHT.
Superfund. And suing AK to clean it up. That's how it would get done.

Quote ON THE CONTRARY, "KILL IT AND PEOPLE WILL COME BACK" WILL NOT HAPPEN. MORE LIKE "KILL IT AND REMOVE ALL CHANCES FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE A SHOT AT DECENT PAYING EMPLOYMENT HERE". IF YOU TAKE AK OUT OF THE PICTURE, THE WAGE SCALE SLIDES DOWN TO CASHIER AT FAMILY DOLLAR WAGES, GAS STATION ATTENDANT AND CONVENIENT STORE WAGES/RETAIL AND FAST FOOD WAGE SCALES.....QUITE A GAP BETWEEN WHAT AK PAYS AND WHAT THE OTHER CHOICES IN TOWN PAY.
For the engineering positions, sure it's a good wage. But at what cost? I have close family friends who work 80+ hours a week at that mill with 30+ years of senority. They work you to death - no wonder their employment reviews are among the lowest in the area.

Quote CANCER? THE MIAMI VALLEY HAS BEEN A SOURCE OF CANCER CONTACT FOR DECADES. ISN'T ALL CONTRIBUTED TO AK STEEL. MANY INDUSTRIES AROUND TO HELP ESCALATE THE CANCER RATE HERE. WE ARE AN INDUSTRIAL STATE AND WITH THE USE OF CHEMICALS, WE ARE PRONE TO CANCER CONTACT. GOES WITH THE TERRITORY.
Agreed. But in Butler/Warren Counties, and Middletown specifically, AK is the 800-pound gorilla in the room when it comes to pollution.

Quote AND PRAY TELL, WHAT WOULD THEY BUILD A NEW "CINCY-DAYTON AIRPORT" ON THAT SITE FOR? YA GOT A 7000 FT RUNWAY AT HOOK WITH MINIMAL ACTIVITY AND THE DAYTON AND CINCY AIRPORTS ARE LESS THAN AN HOUR AWAY. WHAT WOULD BE THE PURPOSE OF PLACING A FACILITY LIKE THAT HERE?
Hook wouldn't factor into the equation. CVG and DAY would close, and combine into a new hub airport between the two cities which could be competitive with other major hub airports like Detroit, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Charlotte, etc.

The idea has been kicked around for a while now, very informally so but it can be assumed there has been higher level planning as well. Here's some more info and further discussion:

And the most ideal location would be Middletown. Right on top of AK Steel and SunCoke.

Quote A BUSINESS PARK? SEE ABOVE FOR SOIL CLEANUP PREP BEFORE BUILDING. PLUS THE LOCATION TO I-75 ISN'T THE MOST IDEAL EITHER, RIGHT?
With Greentree Rd. it would be an ideal location. The key would be to get the tax structure right.

Quote IMO, MIDDLETOWN DOES STILL NEED AK, EVEN IN THE SCALED DOWN VERSION. OTHERWISE, THERE GOES A MAJOR PORTION OF CITY TAXES COLLECTED IN PROPERTY AND PAYROLL AND THERE GOES AK'S CONTRIBUTION TO THE CITY. MIDDLETOWN IS A BLUE COLLARED STEEL TOWN FOREMOST. NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF THERE. THE CITY LEADERS JUST NEED TO FIND REPLACEMENTS FOR WHAT HAS LEFT OR GONE OUT OF BUSINESS SINCE THE 70'S TO GO ALONG WITH AK. THEY HAVE FAILED MISERABLY SINCE THE 70'S IN DOING SO.

And why have they failed miserably? A lot of the reason is probably because it is hard to sell the image of a nice, sterling town with a giant steel mill. It's kinda like trying to sell people on moving to a subdivision abutting Mt. Rumpke - not going to happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 9:06pm
T, a quick rebuttal on your three prongs:
1) Cincinnati street car. The Mayor won the race based upon his commitment to kill the street car. There would have been no national outrage.  Mallory funded it as a shill for Obama, and Obama, for pulling Cincinnati. When outsiders funded it, it moved forward. Social media had  nothing to do with it.
2) Kill AKS. The logic behind this is so flawed it is unworthy of a serious response. As far as merging Dayton and Cincinnati, the facts reflect just the opposite. Indeed, Ohio has been losing population for years, and this trend is not reversing. Your reference to (inferential statistical) modeling does not reflect growth patterns. What is taking place is geographic cannabolism, that is, people and companies are moving from a county or area, to another, but there is no back filling of the migration. There is no net positive gain in population and intersection. I can cite statistical flight details associated with both Greater Cinci and the Dayton airport, and traffic which has been stagnant, not growing, as carriers cut back on inbound/ outbound traffic, but the point is- there is no need and there will be no development of a middle tier regional airport. As for any population intersection, it is in Warren Cty, south Montgomery, Warren, and northern Hamilton. It is not and will not, be Butler.
3) It would have been appropriate to have shopped at the Target to keep it open, not a silly social trend that is going nowhere.  
Large retailers do analytics daily on sku's, ABC stratification, categories, replenishment, what sells in this zip code vs 30 minutes down the highway. For years, Target has expanded its sq footage into more food variety, a small grocery section, which Middletown does not have. Numbers drove their decision and no 'don't close because I like the woman who makes my popcorn' will have any impact. Maybe they should be chasing Wainscott and the AKS 375 execs back to Middletown?
 
Its over.
        
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2014 at 1:49am
Blaming Target for not delivering on their promise of new tenants by the end of 2013> Priceless. Who is this wanker Ragheb and does he really think us Hillbilly's here in Middletucky are that ignorant? Did you catch the part where it says that one of the present tenants signed a new lease at a higher rate? Thats why Dunhams left (yes I'm bitter) this guy is a riot LOL who the hell wrote this article can't we get a newspaper that does Middletown news?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2014 at 5:21am
Trotwood:

In my earlier days, I would’ve copied your posts…and then pasted and shredded them...point-by-point. I no longer have the energy or the inclination to do so.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not just some prankster, having a go at us poor, down-at-heel Middletonians, nor some collegian looking for a laugh, but that you are just sadly ill-informed. Therefore I will just highlight a few of the many illogical and inconsistent points in your arguments, and rebut them.

First, you argue that we should “kill” AK Steel, so that other ventures could thrive. You argue that there are other local employers paying high wages. You mention “Miami University, Cincinnati State, Atrium Medical Center, Precision Strip, and Kokosing”. Perhaps you don’t understand that Precision Strip and Kokosing are in this community SOLELY because AK Steel is here. If the AK Middletown Works closes, the Middletown presence of these two businesses will certainly also close. AK is also the driving force behind the existence of Atrium, Miami Middletown, and Cinci State. Study the history (and the benefactors) of all of these organizations to understand the significance of AKS.

Second, you argue that AK Steel will pay for a significant portion of the remediation of their abandoned plant site, AFTER we “kill” them. Perhaps you don’t understand that by “killing” AK Middletown Works, AKS would surely be driven into bankruptcy. A bankrupt AKS won’t be paying to remediate anything!!!

Third, perhaps you don’t understand the amount of real estate required for a major international airport versus the acreage of the AKS facilities here in Middletown. AK Middletown is less than two square miles. A major airport such as you envision would require a minimum of SIX (and more likely nine) square miles! (As a point of comparison, I believe that ALL of Middletown is only about five square miles.) If a new, major airport was to be built here, you would not have to worry about Middletown…it would take not only the AK property, but the ENTIRE footprint of the City Middletown (and likely part of Monroe) to make it happen.

Fourth, your dream of a Greentree Road/I-75 interchange is highly unlikely! If I am not mistaken, Federal guidelines demand at least two miles between any NEW interstate interchange and an existing one. The present Middletown and Monroe interchanges (both very recently rebuilt) are only two miles apart. It would take light-years of red tape and decades of political wrangling to even come close to building an interchange ANYWHERE along I-75 between Rt. 63 and Rt. 122 (or between 122 and 123, as far as that goes).

However, I do not totally disagree with you. You state:
“But if Middletown citizens don't give a sh!t then they let them sit on their a$$ and do nothing. However, if they don't make an effort to have a nice town then there sure as heck shouldn't be b!tching when their town goes to sh!t. Because it is their fault, and only their fault.”

You are correct with those remarks. Too many have “sat on their a$$es and did nothing” for too long. They have left the fortunes of their town up to too few for too long, without bothering to become informed or to vote. It IS "their fault, and only their fault.”

Unfortunately, sending a cyber-petition to Target will not help with these circumstances.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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