Help Replace One of Ohio's Oldest Schools?

here is a option that cost the land taxpayers nothing

im sure you are aware that if a city runs  in the red two years in a row the state steps in and cleans house.

i would hope that the same applies to the school district.

let it go belly up for two years in a row and the state will come in and clean house and make it right.
you know cut some of the fat out , get things in a priority list and,they (the state) would be responsible as they should be. If at that time the state thought it was a necessary thing to have new real estate and improved amenities, they would check their list twice and make a state funded decision.  that would be constitutionally correct and not in violation of the law.

Aflatkey: your last suggestion is similar to what happened at Monroe several years ago. Not an exact "apples to apples" example, but it shows what the state would do. They created an overseer, but, the bottom line was, the residents of Monroe still had to foot the bill---through property taxes. just 1chmoore.

The school board has tried to correct what we see as an injustice to Middletown tax payers caused by the unilateral action of the State wiping out close to 30% of our tax base.  We worked with Tim Derickson, our state representative, who three years in a row introduced legislation that would allow districts like Middletown, which had entered into a ELPP before the elimination of the TPP and who had a large percentage of their tax base in TPP, to modify the agreement they entered in the ELPP and have the State's share re-calculated based on the current tax valuation.  Three times, Derickson was successful in passing his legislation in both the House and the Senate.  Three years in a row, Gov. Kasich line-item vetoed this legislation.  So we are still locked in to the 26% State share.  If Kasich had not vetoed it, the State would have to fund the full cost of the middle school and high school, with the only exception being the Locally Funded Options.

impeach kasich for not following constitutional guidelines.

im glad your an observer, this shows that you are defending the braking of constitutional concepts.
as a past bloger said the state would of paid all of it but kasich veto'd the bill propagating the constitutional tragedy in this state. SEE THE PROBLEM IS RIGHT THERE !  your government dose not want to provide to its citizens as the ohio constitution requires.
i enjoy throwing mud on a blog as it is well known that in the end the voters will rise to defend their freedoms.
For you I hope you never stop answering the call of the peasant. They will rise up and defeat the kings tyranny.

"please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion." Really?  yes really, its funny !!
 And second,
 "Brevity is the soul of wit..
." Brevity doesn't seem to work in your posts.      sarcasim is a type of brevity correct ?

have you ever listened to
William "Bill" Maher, Jr. is an American stand-up comedian, television host, political commentator, satirist, author, and actor.

his demeanor on most subjects is right on the money for me.

defeat the unconstitutional lobby for funding of schools. its the right thing to to if you want the state government to pay for it as they should. they will soon, as there will be very little economic development  in middletown to improve ya al's statistical analysis . So if you would like the state to pay for it, encourage people to leave the city. over tax and charge fee's so businesses move out of town.  Drive that statistic down so low that the state don't have a choice.
Works for me as i will not have to pay for it.    LOL !!


please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion as

Brevity is the soul of wit   /  and with out laughter over the kinks in society anarchy might prevail.

and that's the rest of the story , good day ( Paul Harvey 1946)

you did like Paul Harvey right ?

Aflatkey: I hate to say it but your posts are too far out there to be taken seriously. Your posts sound too much like your music...confused. I'll elect to sit back as an observer concerning your posts. One way or another, this phase will be over May 7th. just 1chmoore.

Acclaro: it has been an interesting spirited debate for the last few months. In the end, I do understand both sides. As an aside, I have no personal connection with Mrs. Andrew, other than seeing her at board meetings 2 or 3 times a year. just 1chmoore.

It is interesting to read everyone's comments. "Losing" 40 million dollars doesn't really light a fire under my rear end because we may not even get it. How do you miss something you never had? That's a gamble. With that said... is there anything written anywhere that gives an allotted amount of time to renovate? For example.. why 37 years to renovate Vail. Let's say this passes, what happens in 37 years from now to the "new and improved energy efficient" building? Who is responsible for the upkeep?

I cannot wrap my head around almost 40 years that nothing was done to MMS/Vail. If you take care of something it will last forever.

If this 40 mil is lost in the sauce, so be it... the people of this town, especially the people who are in charge of making decisions (LOL)need to learn a lesson in appreciation. They'll HAVE to appreciate what they have and make it work instead of trying to turn this place into something it's not.

good morning bloggers ,
 pro lobby and anti -unconstitutional tax brethren,
att: pro lobby,
I fully understand that your tiered of my banter towards your unwillingness to admit that the current form of funding public schools is unconstitutional.
att:anti -unconstitutional tax brethren,
i have taken no offense to any comment said for my point of view or against. (Richard Saunders) thanks for your rephrase of past blogs as my intention was only to propigate the anti tax lobby.

i realize that no one in the pro lobby will respond to any post i provide, and that is fine, most likely they will still read it as curiosity is the root of all evil. ( that is a wife's tale right )

 chmoore1   you said   " Your posts sound too much like your music...confused". I'm flattered that you would even listen in full to what i have published.

in the battle of saint Clair the subject matter is LOVE
lets review the lyric

Lycans beware of the legend of Saint Clair
Her scepter defends the innocence and despaired
Pierced to the heart with a dart of love divine
Lycans beware!
Lycans beware of the legend of Saint Clair!
MOSH
[VERSE 1]
Piercing the darkness so thick all around
Shining with power like sun through the cloud
Saint Clair's scepter held high in the air
Destroying Lycans with one shout out-loud
Driving back beast with power and light
Man turned to wolf runs off in the night
Changed into creatures by one single bite
From wolve'n beast in the darkness of night!
MOSH
[VERSE]
Men camped around the walls coming down
Battle and conquering all they surround
These men were changed in the blink of an eye
Saint Clair's scepter with light coming down
Driving back evil they trembled fear
Power, dominion this poor womans faith
Savings them all from the dark evil fate
Saint Clairs love will open the gate

some back ground about Saint Clair

The Legend of the Battle of the Saint Clair, goes back
in time. St. Clare was born in Assisi, the eldest daughter
 of Favorino Scifi, Count of Sasso-Rosso and his wife Ortolana.
 Saint Clairs monastery , San Damiano emerged as the most
 important house in the order, and Clare became its undisputed leader.
 By 1263, just ten years after Clare's death, the order had become
 known as the Order of Saint Clare. Frederick II was one of the most powerful
 Holy Roman Emperors of the Middle Ages and head of the House of Hohenstaufen.
 His political and cultural ambitions, based in Sicily and stretching through
 Italy to Germany, and even to Jerusalem, were enormous; however, his enemies,
especially the popes, prevailed, and his dynasty collapsed soon after his death.
 When, in 1234, the army of Frederick II was devastating the valley of Spoleto,
the soldiers, preparatory to an assault upon Assisi, scaled the walls of
 San Damiano by night, spreading terror among the community.


Clare, calmly rising from her sick bed, and taking the ciborium
 from the little chapel adjoining her cell, proceeded to face
 the invaders at an open window against which they had already placed a ladder.
It is related that, as she raised the Blessed Sacrament on high,
 the soldiers who were about to enter the monastery fell backward as if dazzled,
 and the others who were ready to follow them took flight. When, some time later,
 a larger force returned to storm Assisi, headed by the General Vitale di Aversa
who had not been present at the first attack, Clare, gathering her daughters
about her, knelt with them in earnest prayer that the town might be spared
Presently a furious storm arose, scattering the tents of the soldiers in every direction,
 and causing such a panic that they again took refuge in flight.

as you can see if you think my music is confused you must not like history regarding FREE WILL BENEVOLENCE.
Saint Clair wore no shoes in protest to the rich for not caring for the poor.

since you think I'm confused ponder this lyric from system of a down

WHY DO THEY ALWAYS SEND THE POOR!
Barbarisms by Barbaras
With pointed heels.
Victorious, victories kneel.
For brand new spankin' deals.
Marching forward hypocritic
And hypnotic computers.
You depend on our protection,

Yet you feed us lies from the table cloth.
La la la la la la la la la,
Everybody's going to the party have a real good time.
Dancing in the desert blowing up the sunshine.

Why don't presidents fight the war?
Why do they always send the poor?
Why don't presidents fight the war?
Why do they always send the poor?

I cant post the entire lyric as some of it is BRUTAL with its delivery
yet it is still a expression of opinion and is worthy of consideration by a ever changing world's viewpoint on war.

why do I go threw the trouble of showing the above art forms?
It's a art form based in historical fact as the writer see's it.

so lets refocus ,

 DON'T TREAD ON MY CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOMS

DeRolph v. State was a landmark case in Ohio constitutional law in which the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that the state's method for funding public education was unconstitutional. Handed down on March 24, 1997, the 4-3 opinion said that the state funding system "fails to provide for a thorough and efficient system of common schools" as required by the Ohio Constitution and directed the state to find a remedy. The court would look at the case several times over the next 12 years before relinquishing jurisdiction, though the underlying problems with the school funding system were never fully solved.

For funding of public schools we need equal taxation of all citizens that dose not bear unequal responsibility on property owners. With the fact that property based taxation is taxation with out equal representation (Bill of Rights 1689) I pose the fact that all of humanity that resides in  any particular principality should bear the cost of education threw a sales tax , income tax or  have each family bear the cost for the children they bring into the world. Funding public education on the backs of property owners is unconstitutional.

its your duty as well as the governments constitutional duty to “provide for a thorough and efficient system of common schools" common denotes that the school in Indian hills should be a carbon copy of the school in middletown. They are not because people like you and the lobby you represent continue to violate our constitutional freedoms by propagating a illegal form of funding schools.

Vote no on may 6 if you want to make a change in the current system!! 

I thank you in advance for not responding to this blog entry as you must now finally agree that the unconstitutional nature of this system should be abolished.

please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion as

Brevity is the soul of wit   /  and with out laughter over the kinks in society anarchy might prevail.

and that's the rest of the story , good day ( Paul Harvey 1946)

RRiveter wrote: It is interesting to read everyone's comments. "Losing" 40 million dollars doesn't really light a fire under my rear end because we may not even get it. How do you miss something you never had? That's a gamble. With that said... is there anything written anywhere that gives an allotted amount of time to renovate? For example.. why 37 years to renovate Vail. Let's say this passes, what happens in 37 years from now to the "new and improved energy efficient" building? Who is responsible for the upkeep? I cannot wrap my head around almost 40 years that nothing was done to MMS/Vail. If you take care of something it will last forever. If this 40 mil is lost in the sauce, so be it... the people of this town, especially the people who are in charge of making decisions (LOL)need to learn a lesson in appreciation. They'll HAVE to appreciate what they have and make it work instead of trying to turn this place into something it's not.

spiderjohn wrote: what an interesting discourse The working property owner/taxpayer is paying far too much, with the balance continuing to rapidly spiral against him. This cannot sensibly go one as is.

LOL !!!

 a quote from "just 1chmoore, trying to be helpful"

"Mrs. Andrew: I didn't know if you were aware that "DeRolph v. State was a landmark case in Ohio constitutional
law in which the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that the state's method for funding public education was unconstitutional.
 Handed down on March 24, 1997, the 4-3 opinion said that the state funding system...."
 Just thought that you should know in case you missed it on some other posts. just 1chmoore, trying to be helpful."

and yes you are correct ! you win what is behind door number  3 !!
come on down !!
glad to see that "your trying to be helpful"  LOL

a quote from Mrs Andrew

"Riveter--you say "we may not even get it (the $40 Million). We will get it, IF the bond levy passes.
 The State has committed to it and the money has been appropriated in the state budget.
 There is no "gamble."  The only remaining hurdle to getting the state money is passing the bond levy."

Im not sure if you understand parliamentary procedure.
line items are not appropriated in the state budget  / they are written into it as a bill.
then the budget bill has to be ratified by the house of representatives and senate.
when it is passed then it goes to the appropriations process and threw comity.
after that point a budget bill that passes has a specific appropriations ID number to show the funds are ready for distribution or have been distributed.
"if you are trying to be helpful" you might want to provide the appropriations ID number so we can look up your facts on the government web site that gives freedom of information on state funded appropriations.

It's at this point that I would remind you that by the government appropriating matching funds to any school district  are in direct violation of constitutional law.

and there you go !

DeRolph v. State was a landmark case in Ohio constitutional law in which the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that the state's method for funding public education was unconstitutional. Handed down on March 24, 1997, the 4-3 opinion said that the state funding system "fails to provide for a thorough and efficient system of common schools" as required by the Ohio Constitution and directed the state to find a remedy. The court would look at the case several times over the next 12 years before relinquishing jurisdiction, though the underlying problems with the school funding system were never fully solved.

Its your duty as well as the governments constitutional duty to “provide for a thorough and efficient system of common schools" common denotes that the school in Indian hills should be a carbon copy of the school in middletown. They are not because people like y the pro levy / bond lobby continue to violate our constitutional freedoms by propagating a illegal form of funding schools. 

additional helpful information

Legislators consider many hundreds of bills during a typical biennial session of the General Assembly, but no legislation is more important to the operation of state government than the bills that compose the state budget.
 It is through the enactment of these bills that the General Assembly is able to allocate the state’s financial resources among the thousands of competing spending priorities. Involvement in the budget process by the General Assembly is mandated by the Ohio Constitution, primarily by Article II, Section 22, which states:

No money shall be drawn from the state
treasury, except in pursuance of a specific
appropriation, made by law; and no
appropriation shall be made for a longer
period than two years.

Since a specific appropriation made by law is required in order to spend state money, the General Assembly, as the law-making branch of government, is an essential participant in spending decisions. The state budget is normally in effect for a period of two fiscal years, although the Constitution permits appropriations for shorter periods. The
state fiscal year begins on July 1 and runs through June 30 of the following year. The new budget must be adopted before spending authority  under the old budget expires. From the perspective of the legislature, work on
the budget occurs primarily in the first six months of the biennial session of the General Assembly.
This work entails the introduction, hearings, and enactment of:

(1) The main operating appropriations bill, which provides funding for most state agencies. (Usually
appropriations for education-related agencies are included in this bill, but on at least one occasion, a separate education appropriations bill has been enacted.)

(2) The transportation appropriations bill for programs funded with motor vehicle fuel taxes and registration fees (primarily in the Departments of Transportation and Public Safety)

(3) Appropriations bills for the Bureau of Workers’ Compensation and the Industrial Commission, which are funded primarily by the state, county, taxing district, and private employers.

In the second year of a biennium, two other important appropriations bills are generally enacted.
One, known as the capital improvements bill, appropriates money for projects for the acquisition,
construction, equipment, or renovation of buildings and other facilities of agencies other than the
Department of Transportation. (The Department of Transportation’s capital appropriations are normally
included in the transportation appropriations bill.)

Since it is unusual for the House to concur in the Senate amendments to the main operating
appropriations bill, the bill is normally sent to a committee of conference. Conference committee
meetings usually take place over a period of at least two weeks, after which the conference committee
prepares a committee report to submit to the House and Senate.
If both houses agree to the conference committee report, the act is quickly enrolled so that it can be
reviewed by the appropriate executive agencies and signed by the Governor. Since the Constitution
empowers the Governor to veto any item in an act making an appropriation, approval of the act is
usually accompanied by the Governor’s line item veto (disapproval of specific items in the act). The
Governor sets forth the reasons for vetoing these items in a written veto message.

Operating Appropriations
The operating appropriations bills usually contain both line-item appropriations and language
appropriations.

Line-item Appropriations
A example of appropriations is an excerpt from Section 415.10 of Am. Sub. H.B. 153 of the 129th
General Assembly. Section 415.10 contains line-item appropriations to the Department of Youth
Services, which administers juvenile correctional programs. The appropriations are made from money
credited to 15 different funds, each of which is identified by an abbreviation of its fund name or
by its fund number. OBM classifies all state funds into fund groups including, in the Department of
Youth Services example, the General Revenue Fund Group, General Services Fund Group,
Federal Special Revenue Fund Group, and State Special Revenue Fund Group.

the above information should help you identify where the 40 million is coming from and if it is a active
appropriation. Remember no appropriations of any kind are active till July 1-2014. and most are still in committee right now. Any appropriation will have a specific number as to identify it as legislation and or as a final appropriation.
 

please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion as

a moment of bliss , a reply from the one sitting on the fence "just 1chmoore". cut and paste is useful as it shows procedure attributes that your government representatives are supposed to be bound by when they take their oath.
I have asked for a bill number that represents a appropriation twice now. Just want to have some one come up with the meat to vindicate that the money is truly there. A bill number with a funding code would provide that. you did read that part of the cut and paste right ?
what to do about the middle school you say ?? - advise the state of the governments constitutional duty to “provide for a thorough and efficient system of common schools" common denotes that the school in Indian hills should be a carbon copy of the school in middletown. The state government should take inventory of like schools in the area and provide 100% of the funding so middletown has a jem of a institution, one that the pro - lobby would be proud of.  One that would not purge land owners on unequal taxation with out proper representation. one that fallows the constitutional directives that have been thrown aside by your representatives.
Some local residents have gave a statistic that ohio ranks 49th out of 50 in our nation on the ability to provide a proper education. they also say that  the USA ranks 49th in the world as the same kind of thing. ( advise if this hand me down statistic is wrong )

Providing a education is not a result of physical facility's being state of the art or of a renovated state. providing education can only happen when the students are receptive to the curriculum implemented by teachers and their administration, and the parents enforce a guideline in their own homes that is uncompromising to the child , so in the long run the child is willing to absorb with confidence the wisdom to take them to a new level of disciplined learning skills and educational accomplishment.
.
please advise what type of - bi-enemas would be best for my condition. Do you have a name brand you prefer?
is generic ok? or dose it have side effects that the FDA has advised us to stay away from.  just say'n  I want to be clear !!

please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion as

Riveter, you have confused me.  In your earlier post, you seemed to be complaining that "nothing was done" to the middle school building for 37 years, and that if the school district had just "taken care of it" it would be fine and there would be no need to replace it or do major renovations now.  When I responded that, in fact, the district has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in the 50 years since the last renovation on maintenance and repairs for the middle school, now you seem to be complaining that the district should not have waited 50 years to do a major renovation.  Do you understand the difference between major renovation, on the one hand, and maintenance and repairs, on the other? To me, maintenance and repairs is "taking care of it." 

Ms. Andrew:

"When the state funding for new schools was first introduced, both the district and the state's experts identified Vail as the building in MCSD most in need of replacement. But a bond levy proposing to build a new high school and to renovate the existing high school for a middle school as the FIRST phase of construction was rejected by the voters"

The "experts" recommended a rebuild of Vail. No mention of a renovation. Was there a reason for the schools not to consider a Vail renovation at the time as an alternative? So the schools only answer was to offer a new high school and a renovation of the current high school to replace Vail. Defeated by voters. SOMETIMES, YA JUST HAVE TO BEWARE OF THE SO-CALLED "EXPERTS". THEIR OPINION IS, MORE SO THAN NOT, NOT THE GOSPEL.

THE OFFERS FROM THE SCHOOL TO THE VOTER IS ALWAYS NEW. SEEMS AS IF THE IDEA OF RENOVATING AND LEAVING THE EXTERIOR INTACT IS NEVER CONSIDERED.

MS. ANDREW, IF THE PRO-LEVY FOLKS GET THEIR WAY, AND YOUR NEW MIDDLE SCHOOL IS BUILT, WHAT, IN YOUR OPINION, WILL THE CITIZENS GET FOR THEIR MONEY? IT WON'T BE AN ATTRACTION ISSUE OR WE WOULD HAVE SEEN MORE STUDENTS ENTER THE DISTRICT, RATHER THAN SEE A DECLINING ENROLLMENT. IT WON'T BE AN IMPROVED SCENARIO WITH STUDENT PERFORMANCE OR WE WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT BY NOW FROM THE NEW ELEMENTARIES YOU BUILT. IT WON'T BE IN THE AREA OF INCREASED INDICATOR NUMBERS BEING MET OR WE WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT BY NOW FROM THE ELEMENTARIES, RIGHT? IT WON'T BE AN IMPROVED REPUTATION FOR THE DISTRICT OR WE WOULD BE HEARING MORE POSITIVE TALK FROM THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES. THE GENERAL CONSENSUS, WHEN READING OUTSIDE NEWS, IS THAT MIDDLETOWN IS A RED-NECK, ILLITERATE CESSPOOL WITH AN OVERABUNDANCE OF CRIME, DRUGS AND BEHIND THE TIMES IDEAS FOR DEVELOPMENT THAT HAS PLACED THE CITY THIRTY YEARS BEHIND THE TIMES COMPARED TO SURROUNDING TOWNS....A PLACE TO STAY AWAY FROM FOR OUTSIDERS. THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS TO THANK FOR THAT IMAGE. THEY HAVE STRIPPED WHAT THEY WANTED FROM THIS CITY, MADE IGNORANT DECISIONS IN LEADERSHIP ROLES, AND MOVED ON, LEAVING A DYING CITY IN THEIR WAKE.

WHAT WILL WE SEE WITH YOUR NEW MIDDLE SCHOOL AND THE ELIMINATION OF THE VAIL BUILDING AS TO ANY POSITIVES FROM YOUR SCHOOLS?

CAN YOU BE SOMEWHAT CERTAIN THAT YOUR NEW SCHOOL WILL:

A) INCREASE PERFORMANCE NUMBERS THAT WILL BE BETTER THAN VAIL'S?
B) ENTICE FAMILIES TO MOVE HERE?
C) HELP WITH INCREASED INDICATOR NUMBERS?
D) GIVE US BETTER RESULTS THAN YOUR ELEMENTARIES HAVE GIVEN TO DATE?
E) HELP ATTRACT BUSINESSES?
F) IMPROVE THE CURRENT IMAGE AND REPUTATION OF THIS DISTRICT.
G) SIMPLY BE WORTH THE INVESTMENT AND YIELD A DECENT ROI FOR THE TAXPAYER?