Buying Sorg Mansion
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Manager
Forum Description: Discuss the city manager administration including all city departments.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1223
Printed Date: Apr 28 2024 at 4:49am
Topic: Buying Sorg Mansion
Posted By: Pacman
Subject: Buying Sorg Mansion
Date Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 7:10am
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Interesting blog on how much it would take to buy and rehab the Sorg Mansion from people who have looked at it.
http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=17430.0 - http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=17430.0 ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Replies:
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 7:32am
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Pacman The last time I talked with Harry we were looking at about a million and that was manyl years ago....so I would say about a million and a half now. Lot of work is needed.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 7:39am
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I agree Vivian whatever the figure ends up being add 50% to that and you might be close. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: scrapmonkey
Date Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 11:09am
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I think Sorg house should be on councils demolition list. Lets demolish it since it serves no purpose & could be a danger to the public. ------------- scrapmonkey "Civilization begins with order,grows with liberty,and dies with chaos"~Will Duran |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 12:06pm
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I would have to agree with Scrapmonkey on this one.
The $$ needed to re-furbish the place far exceeds any value or use of the property.
It is too far gone now--they missed their opportunity long ago.
Buy-it-fix it-then what?
A new home for the Historical Society?
Plus, how can the Admin justify the purchase cost and the necessary fix-ups to meet their code violations, then tell everyone else that they are stone broke?
Finklemens should part it out, then sell the property for demolition.
That whole cornershould be changed towards the future.
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Posted By: Impala SS
Date Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 12:54pm
| I would like to know where the money is coming from? If they buy this then they had damn well better fix up the cemetery. Right is right and wrong is wrong. It is wrong to spend that kind of money and not fix up the cemetery. |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 4:29pm
| Is it possible she was referring to the Sorg Paper Plant? |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 5:10pm
Pacman: thank you for that link!! I noticed something very interesting in one of the posts by someone who calls themself "MADCOW":
I guess that we all know who owns that "1870's, 6,000+ sf house that was used as a nursing home", so tell us, Mr. Kohler...oops...I mean MADCOW:
1. Since "There is also a possibility for City financial assistance" for restoration of the Sorg mansion, why isn't there "City financial assistance" available for the restoration Pioneer Cemetery???
2. How much "City financial assistance", if any, was used in the restoration of the "1870's, 6,000+ sf house that was used as a nursing home for the past 40 years"???
3. How many federal dollars,if any, were funneled through the city's administration of programs such as Community Development Block Grants to end up being used in the restoration of the "1870's, 6,000+ sf house that was used as a nursing home for the past 40 years"??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Pacman wrote:Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 6:03pm
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Years ago when I talked with Harry, we were talking about making the Mr. Kohler did receive CDBG money to help fix up that little house of his and it's all a matter of public record. |
Posted By: scrapmonkey
Date Posted: Apr 21 2009 at 11:17am
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I don't want to see Sorg torn down it's historical value & decor is much to important. I think it's a shame that the city let whoever turn it into apartments and destroy it the way they did. That goes beyond pathetic. ------------- scrapmonkey "Civilization begins with order,grows with liberty,and dies with chaos"~Will Duran |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Apr 21 2009 at 10:48pm
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You can thank Mr. Finkleman for that. The so-called "savior" of Middletown's treasures.
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Posted By: Nelson R. Self
Date Posted: Oct 09 2009 at 11:58pm
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Let's have a much improved voter turnout this year from Wards 1, 2 and 4.
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Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Oct 10 2009 at 1:47am
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Demolishing this marvelous part of our history shouldn't even be considered. Shame on anyone that wants to tear it down! Isn't it protected? I thought it was on the national registry or something? |
Posted By: lewcrippen12
Date Posted: Sep 22 2010 at 4:14am
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I took tap dance lesson in one of the apartment & the walls have hand curved faces in the cherry colored wood. Thanks Regards Lew http://www.innovativeoutsource.com/ - Outsource Telemarketing |
Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 5:34pm
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Posted By: Talking Heads
Date Posted: Sep 27 2010 at 10:17pm
| When a few of us toured the property with Mr. Finkelman several years ago, he explained that the interior walls, doors, woodwork, built-ins, etc., were as they were when his father purchased it from Mr. Sorg, with the exception of the old garden/green house. The rooms had been rented as apartments since sometime in the late 30's or 40's, if I remember correctly. The building's integrity was maintained throughout the years, including many of the original fixtures and stained glass. I even noticed that the antique curtain rods hanging in front of the sliding doors on the first floor were still in place. This is not a property to be demolished, but one to treasure and be thankful that it is not in worse shape or the condition that so many seem to think that it is. From the recent pictures posted on the on that Facebook site, it seems that much has remained the same since we toured. |
Posted By: viper771
Date Posted: Sep 27 2010 at 11:09pm
| I agree. I wish I could check the place out myself. From what I understand it isn't in bad shape at all. It isn't perfect, but all old houses, even the Sorg house, will need some TLC. I have seen many less grand houses with a lot of the original stuff taken out go for a LOT of money. This place deserves to be saved. |
Posted By: Richard Saunders
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 1:19am
| I always wonder why, if such structures were such treasures, lovers of them do not raise the necessary funds, purchase them, and tenderly care for them. Why do they always want the taxpayers to do the purchasing and caring, and leave only the using and enjoying to the purported "lovers" of the buildings, at which time the taxpayers are barred from entering. |
Posted By: Rhodes
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 1:19am
| Did they already start fixing it up? The guy buying it used to post on here then disappeared. I was talking to someone the other day that told me they heard a person from either Kentucky or Tennessee was buying it now. Too many stories to keep up with on that property! |
Posted By: viper771
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 11:47am
| Well I am fixing up my house with no taxpayer help. Usually that is what people do. Just because a few people im Middletown may do it, doesn't mean all us old house lovers do it. The best I could hope for is some kind of tax credit. If I had the money I would buy the Sorg house and fix it up. I would most likely make the main house into a museum, and live in the guest house. There were a few houses like that in Abiline Kansas I toured. You pay a couple bucks to get a guided tour of a place, and sometimes the tour guide lived in the house. If that could happen to the Sorg it would be great. Then everyone could see the place. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 12:02pm
Knock down the city building and move city hall into the Sorg mansion and guesthouse. Would go with our arts center/art studios/olde tyme theme for the downtown area and allow some of the city leaders who want this for the downtown to participate in it's theme. 
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 2:31pm
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What is funny is if the Sorg mansion was in any other city it would be a huge tourist attraction. Probably a center piece for any downtown setting,but only in Middeltown could it be considered an eye sore or rental property.
I am very surprised it is not section 8 with alcoholics,hookers and drug addicts renting rooms. That would make a great tourist attraction with beer cans all over the lawn and hookers standing out front. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 2:48pm
| Hermes, may I remind you who lives right down the street from the Sorg? Mr. Kohler. Mr. Mulligan and other prominent city leaders who live in this area would never allow the section 8, hooker, drugs, beer can thing to transpire in their area. The S. Main St. Historical Society would never let this happen. |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 3:57pm
| Maybe we should have a toast on the corner using our beer mugs. |
Posted By: Rhodes
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 4:22pm
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Hermes, not sure if that is sarcasm or not, but to those new to this forum, the Sorg did have Section 8 renters & drug dealers (according to the Journal a drug bust happened there a couple years ago). Officially we can call the Sorg a former "crack house".
Yes, only in Middletown would such an incredible looking building be nothing but a joke. I thought Finkelman was supposed to be some great real estate investor all these years. If that is so, how come so many of his properties are in shambles? Buildings don't fall apart that fast. It takes years and years for the type of decay his properties seem to have. I know some people want to give him credit for saving the Sorg, but it was never in danger of being demolished during his ownership. He didn't save it, he milked it. |
Posted By: rngrmed
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 5:07pm
LOL..there is a house of ill repute right across the street from our dear mayor. You can sit watch cars come and go all day. The woman houses hookers and lets the do their "work" there...not to mention his proximity to the 18th street projects and all the problems that go on there...
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Posted By: Smartman
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 6:47pm
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The Sorg should be perserved. It is an important part of our history. Just like the theatre should be taken out of the hands of that riduclous music store. The theatre carries so much history itself. But what is it used for?? Rastling events!!! ( Thats wrestling to you educated folks). Many do not know that there was a tunnel that ran from the mansion to that theatre. Its probably gone.
The Armco Band perfomed there on a regular basis. Is that not part of our history? They put M-town on the map. The first broadcasts of 700 WLW took place there. They were the reason John Phillip Sousa came to town and recruited Frank Simon.
There is a 3rd floor balcony in the theatre with bench seats. In the day as they were called, those were the colored seats! The theatre is a wonderful old hall that if restored could add much to the so called arts district along with the home itself. Its our history y'all and we need to perserve what little we have left.
Granted some of the old building downtown are beyond repair. These 2 are part of our heritage. lmo
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 7:48pm
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I don't get our so called historical society. Isn't preservation part of their duty ? Doesn't historical societies fight for preservation ?
Where are they when it comes to the cemetery and the Sorg house ? Correct me if I am wrong. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 9:06pm
| Smartman, who should "preserve" it? I don't want to pay for it. Who the h*ll would go there anyway? |
Posted By: Smartman
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 9:23pm
| Bill I don't expect you to go there nor pay for it. It would need to be people that have appreciation of the arts and historical places. There are grants out there to preserve these kind of places. |
Posted By: Talking Heads
Date Posted: Sep 28 2010 at 11:21pm
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Rhodes, sounds like you are "in the know" and have a real beef with the owners/former owners. From what I understand, Section 8 was not a part of the Sorg property (that could be verified by CONSOC) and the drug dealing was part of a sting operation and taken care of, according to the police. I seriously doubt there was any "milking" going on...do you have any idea how much it costs to run a property such as that? You might take a lesson in economics before you accuse people. Seems Smartman understands this better than most. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 29 2010 at 6:31am
Smartman- you mentioned that to pay for this, there would "need to be people that have an appreciation for the arts and historical places". A few weeks ago, I saw a whole council chamber full of people who spoke in support of the arts when they testified how wonderful the new Verdin Arts Center is going to be and how "enriching" the arts would be good for Middletown. People from out of town threw in their support as well. Where are those people now and where is there support to maintain this artzy/historical places subject we are discussing here? I'm guessing that it was easy to get up and tell the world how they supported the arts when it was no risk to them financially and taxpayer money would be at risk, but if they need to commit their own resources to the arts, we don't hear a peep out of them, do we? Me thinks they talk out both sides of their mouths.  and when forced into a corner as to a personal financial commitment they show their true colors and are actually wanna-be, self-important, self-righteous pretenders. 
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 29 2010 at 9:38am
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Spot on, Vet(and I love it when you quote Bob Dylan.
The downtown enablers need more of the Pendleton-type deals to prop up the property investments in the area. Actually a little property maintenence and out-door cleaning of their frontage would help considerably.
Embarrassing how filthy the building exteriors have become, while owned by many of the out-spoken "stakeholders" in the area. The "new" store fronts are already showing age and neglect, despite many of the buildings not having a tenant since the improvements(a real waste of taxpayer $$).
Sorg Theater complex/Sorg Mansion--turn one of them into a major "haunted house" complex.
Both are far too expensive for anyone to re-hab realistically.
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Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Sep 29 2010 at 10:27pm
HAHAHAHAHA  |
Posted By: angelababy
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 3:09am
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If they buy this then they had damn well better fix up the cemetery.
Right is right and wrong is wrong. It is wrong to spend that kind of
money and not fix up the cemetery.
------------- Welcome to my paintings website - http://www.wholesaleartmall.com - Wholesale Art Mall . |
Posted By: Lostdafire
Date Posted: Oct 28 2010 at 11:25am
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I drove by the Sorg Mansion today and there was a chain across the entrance at the 2nd and Main entrance with a do not enter, private property sign. A similar sign was on the fence further south on S. Main St. The complex appeared empty. I was surprised by this and returned to this thread to check on any updates. |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Oct 28 2010 at 11:34am
It's been that way for several months now.
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Posted By: viper771
Date Posted: Oct 28 2010 at 2:19pm
| Some was in there the other day either working on the Sorg and Guest house, or just taking a look at what needed to be done. |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Oct 28 2010 at 2:32pm
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I understand there was a gas leak there.
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Posted By: viper771
Date Posted: Oct 28 2010 at 5:11pm
| It doesn't surprise me. From what my wife saw (she drove by and the curtains in the guest house were tied up) she could see the vast amount of water damage on the walls from leaks (reminds me of our house). The plumber who redid our main water line was saying they had some big plumbing leak in the basement of the main house, but it took a week to find where it was. Something about it being within the actual foundation and they had a hell of a time getting to it. |
Posted By: Rhodes
Date Posted: Oct 29 2010 at 2:15pm
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Did the Sorg Mansion have the leak that took a week to find? Did it flood the basement? I saw about 2 or 3 work trucks and maybe a work van there a couple weeks ago. A lot of traffic at the time so I couldn't see what all was going on.
Did anyone find out if this is sold or not? I have to say that it does look a little abandoned these days, but looks better without all the junker cars in the parking lot when all the apartments used to be rented. |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Oct 29 2010 at 2:37pm
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It's my understanding the Opera House had a leak that was difficult to find.
I am referring to a gas leak, not water leak. Although I do understand there are issues with the carriage house.
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Posted By: viper771
Date Posted: Oct 30 2010 at 12:34am
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I didn't know anything about a gas leak, but it doesn't surprise me. I think the main house still has working gas lights. Even the carriage house still has the old equipment from when it was a mini power plant.
I hope it is all fixed up though. If I had the money I would do it. But it does look better without the crappy cars out there.
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Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Oct 30 2010 at 10:21am
| The pipes that burst were in the carriage house. |
Posted By: viper771
Date Posted: Oct 30 2010 at 1:23pm
| :( |