Wake up people!!
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Outside World
Forum Name: News, Info and Happenings outside Middletown
Forum Description: It might be happening outside Middletown, but it affects us here at home.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1377
Printed Date: Apr 29 2024 at 8:00am
Topic: Wake up people!!
Posted By: spiderjohn
Subject: Wake up people!!
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 10:25am
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Went down to the Arts Central Foundation outing last night. Great effort by the committee!
Music was outstanding and very diverse. Food was s-s0--booths similar. A wonderful evening and opportunity(until the storm hit!), and no one can complain about "nothing to do around here on a nice Saturday night".
Great effort by Mr.Cohen and his crew at the cemetary. Ken Cohen grew up here through the local school system, and along with his family, continue to donate many resources for the betterment of our city. Though he doesn't live here any more, he obviously still cares quite a bit.
Two very positive situations yesterday.
Now for the bad news and 2day's spider rant:
Extremely depressed over the vandalism downtown recently. The new windows installed in the old Castell Building have been seriously damaged by a group of young punks who climbed atop the Shared Harvest/TVM building to not only break the TVM antenna, but to hurl bricks across the street, shattering dozens of brand new beautiful windows. The mural on the side of this building has now been cut for no good reason. The recent effort to beautify the bicentennial commons has been diluted by theft of a large amount of the newly planted flowers and plants.
Why is this happening?
Why can't our citizens embrace these positive efforts(by private citizens and businesses) instead of showing their resentment by destroying these positive efforts? This damage was not caused by young juveniles who don't know better, but by educated young adults!!
Why??? And why hasn't this been front page news naming names and rallying the community to both punish the vandals to the fullest, and support the improvement efforts?
Broad Street Bash--ACF festival--positive remodeling downtown. Say what you like about downtown, however there is more improvement going on down there than the rest of the city combined.
Talked to a lot of yer favotite local figures yesterday, and had good meaningful conversation with all of them. Council,Admin,Mrs.Mort, downtown businesses etc. The mood was upbeat and excellent. Should have been a LOT more local support. Didn't see Vet,pacman, mailto:pers-jhejm-1195180540@craigslist.org?subject=Curious%20First%20Timer%20-%20m4m%20-%2024%20%28Dayton%20Area%29 - Imp ala,Ms.Moon, the General/Buckeyes/perplexed or many other identifyable names from here though. Didn't read about any of them volunteering for the cemetary cleanup either. Must have been at home on their pcs typing about having another meeting to "throw the bums out/show them the door/lock them all up" so their new faces(what new faces?) can take over and "fix things!".
Can anyone enlighten me on the names of the vandals downtown or the MJ piece detailing the incident?
Think maybe it is finally time to either put up or shut up?
Or is ranting on message boards just too ego-rewarding and convenient?
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Replies:
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 10:39am
Ah good old Spider......you should change your name to Chameleon....you switch your tune quitter than a Chameleon changes his colors. Next time I will check with you before I setup my Calendar for the weekend.
  ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 11:07am
OK Spider- so you rubbed elbows with Ms. Mort and other city "dignitaries" last night. That's great, if that's what one chooses to do. Then, you state that you didn't see some of us downtown last night nor volunteering for the cemetery cleanup. One normally doesn't fraternize with people who have nothing to agree upon. You also failed to mention whether you were at the cemetery cleanup and, if not, why single us out for non-participation when you weren't there either? As to your statement about "being on the pc's to type about "throwing the bums out/showing the door" etc--- I believe that we could find some posts from you agreeing with those ideas also. You are in your "flip-flopping" mode again. Apparently, you are still "giddy with delight" and "star struck" as those likeable leaders of Welfaretown have diverted you from your "normal self".  Hopefully, it is not terminal and you will return to the Spider we all know and like.  Please rejoin us in our message of CLEANING HOUSE IN NOVEMBER!
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Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 11:16am
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Spider John 0
I contacted my good friend Vivian before the cemetery clean-up. I have a multitude of medical issues that prevent me from doing just about anything physical. That is why I was not there. And, I have no medical insurance.
As for rubbing elbows with the Queen, Sammie, Annie, City Council members, I am still devastated by what happened to me at their hands. I have sought and received excellent treatment from mental health professionals who are working with me to help resolve these deep seated problems.
You owe me a big apology for including my name. I never did anything but patronize your stores!
General Patton/Go Buckeyes/Perplexed
P.S. Thanks for making that observation known too!
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Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 11:24am
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Spider John -
You made an even bigger mistake by including the name of Impala SS. He is once again (sadly) undergoing serious medical treatments. The nature of these treatments is quite debilitating. You owe him a huge apology for saying what you did without knowing the facts.
General Patton
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 11:33am
 Ok Chameleon.....I mean spider, I have my Marching orders for next weekend from my family and here they are for your approval..
Lets see Saturday we are going to celebrate my son's Birthday with a few people, spend the day doing what a new teenager would like to do. Now if that doesn't meet with your approval, and there is some pressing City function that will again have soso food as you keep telling us, you let me know, and I will just cancel his birthday for this year. I am sure he will understand as I will explain this came from THE CHAMELEON....ER I MEAN SPIDER.
 Sunday well that is taken up by Church and yard work, as I have about an acre here and it takes some time. Now I'll let that go as long as you agree to fix any violation letter from the City for my grass getting over 6" tall before I get your OK to cut it.
Let me know now so i may confirm my plans with my family. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 12:25pm
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lol--great responses so far, though no one touched my main concern about the vandalism downtown.
chameleon?? flip-flopper??
call it what you like--I enjoy the company of the names mentioned just as much as I enjoy talking to everyone here. I like all of you--I like all of them.
I just see a tactical change in order to turn the corner around here. We all have typed/posted ad nauseum. We have met at the library. All that has been accomplished is to raise the important topics here to a growing readership. Thinking leans "our" way more and more, so all has not been wasted.
pacman--I don't care how you spend your time in yer glorious east end. You don't go west,
and that is yer bizness. As for committees, boards and community involvement--you have none. Fine--just go on pounding the Section 8 issue(and I agree with you on that!)
general--I never understood the need for multiple screen names, though that is also yer bizness. Let's don't pretend to be different people though. As for patronizing my business--there is no trade-off here. I appreciate all customers. Sorry about your health issues. Hope you get them resolved.
Vet--I loved yer response, and it rings true and valid. Still--you might put it all away sometimes and fraternize with everyone to find a common bond to humanize one another. That is a core of my prior posts towards softening the approach. We are not at war locally. We need to end the division, and inclusion must come from both and every side. We are all simply human, trying to do what we think is best for our community. I am the same guy who still agrees with your thinking on most issues, though I guess this softer approach is where I am today. I am absolutely dedicated to the proposed housecleaning, and hopefully the better choices will soon appear.
Nope--I did not go to the cemetary yesterday, and have never participaed in any of the local clean-ups. Saturday and Sunday are normal workdays for me. I support Ms.Moon and always have. She knows how I think and where I stand. I don't need to justify anything to anyone else. Yes Vet--I DO feel a little better after humanizing conversation with people last night. It didn't hurt at all, and I got a good feeling about who really cares about the right things.
As mentioned and expected:
y'all gloss over my key concerns about lack of participation, and the troubling vandalism, to take offense at my ?ing your REAL involvement towards making things better here.
nbd my way--we are free to express ourselves and don't have to think alike on everything.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 1:05pm
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Spider you are talking to the wrong person about Vandalism. I live bordering the High School. Vadalism was a weekly occurrance in my yard, til I took matters into my own hands and fixed it my way. Calling school and City did little. I would imagine since TV Middltown and a building downtown was invovled the City will be more on the ball and eager to look into it. I don't exactly understand what you expect to be done about the Vandalism downtown. It is now a Police Matter and an Insurance Matter. When my business was valdalized and I called the Police they came out, looked at it and that was the last I ever heard about it, just the way it is. As far as going West, just exactly what am I going West for on a regular basis. My doctors are no longer downtown they have moved to Atrium. I live and work on the East end, hence I buy groceries and shop where the main shopping is, on the East End.I've been to some of the Parades and events downtown, Smith Park, Library, City hall. Go to the Chevy dealer once in awhile other than that for me there is little west of Breiel I would go Downtown for, is there something down there that us Easterns are missing that is vital to our well being. You want to make downtown what it once was and that is fine for you. Personally I don't see it happening unless you get a huge infusion of Private dollars to do it and the way the economy is I doubt that will happen anytime soon. You have business interests in both ends of Town, I don't. I spend 12 hrs a day working on the East End alone that leaves little time for much else currently.
------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 2:07pm
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Spider -
I have clearly and accurately exposed a number of mismanagement, conflict of interest and outright wasteful practices involving the City. I have paid a steep price for doing the right thing and have absolutely no desire for rubbing elbows with the high and mighty who have succeeded (thus far) in keeping the lid on the waste of huge amounts of HUD funds. It's absolute absurdity to suggest that I would wish to be within miles of these power brokers! Just remember, despite how I have been harmed emotionally, professionally and financially, the actions of these people has harmed Middletown considerably!
Lastly, forget about me, but you owe Impala SS a big apology. He needs and deserves our support and prayers!
Disillusioned, Perplexed and Truth Telling General Patton
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Posted By: Impala SS
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 2:34pm
| Spider> Iam downtown almost every day, I deliver clothes to the homeless shelter and cloths and toys and bags to the pantry downtown. I cant do much at this time due to me having cancer, my Dr has me limited to what I can do. I have been very ill but I still do things to help the people of this town. I was at the cemetery Sat. morning I didnt see you there, I can still sort clothes with my 84- year old mother I also volunteer at the free store in Franklin 2- days a week so Iam doing the best I can right now, when I do things it is from my heart not my ego. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 2:48pm
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OK Impala--I understand your issues, and have never doubted your commitment or sincerity. We all do many things to help others, though in many different ways.
And YOU definitely know on which side I stand. You are one of the last to whom I have to justify my thinking.
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 6:50pm
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Why is this happening?
Why can't our citizens embrace these positive efforts(by private citizens and businesses) instead of showing their resentment by destroying these positive efforts? This damage was not caused by young juveniles who don't know better, but by educated young adults!!
Why??? And why hasn't this been front page news naming names and rallying the community to both punish the vandals to the fullest, and support the improvement efforts?
Spider I’m really sorry to hear about all the damage that was done downtown. How do you know the damage was caused by “Educated young adults”? Did the police catch these young adults? The cemetery is vandalized several times a year and each time I walk into the cemetery and see more stones down I cry and its not in the newspaper either. Why won’t the City fix the fences, lock the gates and put a couple dogs in the cemetery at night? I bet they would only cross the fence once before they got the message. I was at the Middletown Cemetery Saturday from 8 am until 2 pm. I came home a few times to get tools and other items that were needed. I still need to go back to the cemetery Monday morning and get some other areas cleaned up. I also take care of the empty house next door to me that has been vacant for the past year and a half. This morning while I had coffee I placed a Thank You to Ken Cohen on this blog. And then I had to be in Spingboro at 8:30 am until 4 pm for a tombstone restoration class so I can repair all the downed and broken stones at the Middletown Cemetery. Sorry Spider I believe I have given enough volunteer time and money over the past 6 years to the City of Middletown and look what they have given me....I really don't want to meet with them downtown for drinks and small talk. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 9:38pm
Chameleon states, "This damage was not caused by young juveniles who don't know better, but by educated young adults!!"Now I don't know you definition of young adult, but legally you are not an adult until you're 18. But if this is what is going on at the High School I would venture you will more than likely not find your vandals in the kids who have been arrested for the list of offenses below. /blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/middletownschoolnews/entries/2009/05/31/breakdown_of_crimes_at_middlet.html - Breakdown of arrests at Middletown High SchoolBy 	/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/middletownschoolnews/entries/2009/05/31/breakdown_of_crimes_at_middlet.html#postcomment - Meagan Engle | Sunday, May 31, 2009, 09:59 AM Here’s the breakdown of citations into court issued at Middletown High School: Misdemeanors Aggravated menacing 2 Assault 13 Criminal damaging 2 Criminal mischief 10 Criminal trespass 16 Disorderly conduct 97 Domestic violence 1 Drug abuse marijuana 10 Drug paraphernalia 6 Ethnic Intimidation 5 Falsification 1 Inciting to violence 9 Inducing panic 5 Menacing 13 Obstructing 26 Possession of tobacco 13 Receiving 2 Resisting arrest 4 Theft 10 Unruly 62 Warrant arrest 2 Felonies Arson 2 Attempted vehicular assault 1 Assault 2 Breaking and entering 3 Conveyance 1 Corrupting another 2 Fleeing scene 1 Obstructing 1 Pandering 3 Theft 1 ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 9:47pm
School officials, police disagree about expulsion policyBy Meagan Engle Staff Writer 11:50 PM Saturday, May 30, 2009
MIDDLETOWN — Middletown police say the high rate of arrests in the public schools keeps school resource officers from being proactive with advocacy and education. Although police say more students should be removed from school for repeat offenses, school officials say they must maintain a balance between keeping the schools safe and doing what’s best for a student. “Expulsion is taking away a kid’s right to an education. That’s the most serious thing a school can do,” said Superintendent Steve Price. “What we like to do as much as we can is help our students,” Price said. The district does expel students who commit violent crimes and also has a policy to recommend expulsion when a student is involved in a second fight. But for other crimes — such as the disorderly and unruly behaviors that make up nearly two-thirds of the court summonses issued at Middletown High School — the district looks to other options, like suspensions, its anger management team, counselors and placement in the limited seats available at county alternative schools. Sixteen students have been expelled from the middle schools and high school this year. Districtwide, 42 recommendations for expulsion were made through May 8, resulting in 18 expulsions, according to school records. Arrests would be higher Principals at the high school and middle schools recently told the board of education arrests would likely be higher without officers in the school full time. “The prevention that our school resource officer does, I don’t think you can even begin to measure,” said Verity Middle School Principal Greg Williams. “I would say with confidence that arrests would go up without Officer (Jim) Griffith there.” Vail Principal Michael Valenti said Officer Bobby Reese knows the students, families and the community and he is able to stop crimes before they manifest themselves in the school. “I wouldn’t know the things that are coming into the building that he knows about that stop it before it even happens,” Valenti said. The principals said there is a misconception in the community about safety in their buildings. “Vail is a safe building and I would invite anyone to come at any time and walk our halls,” Valenti said. Arrests up over last year Arrests at Middletown High School are up from last school year, when 177 citations into juvenile court were issued. Middletown police Sgt. Jim Cunningham said arrests tie up officers, who have to drive students to the Juvenile Detention Center in Hamilton. As a result, officers must be more reactive with less time for proactive measurers like education. Police also worry that keeping disruptive students in school is a distraction. “That’s the time taking away from teaching the kids that want to learn,” said Middletown police Maj. David Van Arsdale. For many years, Middletown had Garfield Alternative School, where students with discipline were assigned. School administrators say other programs are now serving students by meeting their needs. Like the new Freshman Academy set to open next year, which will have smaller class sizes, career mapping and mentoring. The program will serve freshmen, a grade that accounts for many of the arrests. “If they’re engaged and want to come to school and are interested, then those behaviors are decreased,” Price said. The district also is taking measurers, like adding three additional hall monitors at the high school this year. “We’re taking it very seriously,” Price said. “We’re concerned with it, too.” Price said he believes the district could improve on consistency with punishment. “We are trying to provide a consistent message on when a student will get expelled or get suspended,” he said. Lower arrest rate at nearby urban school Hamilton City Schools, an urban school district in Butler County with an enrollment that was 3,000 more than Middletown’s last school year, has had a significantly smaller number of students cited into court this school year. The district takes an internal approach to handling disciplinary action, and also has a grant to have a police officer at the high school full time, as well as a full-time officer assigned to its alternative school, where students in seventh through 12th grades are assigned during their suspension. “If a student gets in trouble we handle it internally and we work closely with the police,” said school spokeswoman Joni Copas. Through May 22 of this school year, one citation into juvenile court was issued at the Hamilton Freshman School; 10 citations were issued at the high school; and 25 citations were issued at the alternative school, according to Hamilton police. Copas said 15 high school students have been expelled this school year. Copas attributes the discipline rate to initiatives like the district’s character education program, new in recent years. “I think some of those character traits or values have helped the student population,” she said. She also said Hamilton works closely with social service agencies and anger management teams. “We really try to help those individual students,” she said. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 10:46pm
| Sorry Spider, But I spent the entire weekend working in my yard. These weekend gatherings could be a entrapment so the city employees could ride around and write more violations when one is singing and dancing with the elite. I don't and never will trust the city leaders. |
Posted By: Impala SS
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 12:07am
| General > Thank you for your kind words, I am just trying to stay alive. Thank you so much. |
Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 12:22am
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Impala SS Call or e-mail me anytime if I can ever be of help to you or your mom.
Keep giving the One Donham Plaza elitist bureaucrats HELL as they could care less about the average citizen.
Many of us have a great respect for your tireless efforts to bring good government back to Middletown.
Sadly, the cast of characters that control our destiny seriously believe that only they know what is best for us don't they??
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 5:52am
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Spider |
Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 6:44am
Ah, I remember the day that the Queen and the Kommandant came into my office unannounced and quickly closed the door without any prior warning. Her majesty then proceeded to accuse me of "SLAMMING" the Kommandant at the first City Council Housing Subcommittee meeting also attended by the former Building Official and City Councilman Schiavone. I was floored by this accusation and confirmed with Ms. Castells and Mr. Schiavone that I did not say anything out of line in their presence. From that day forward in February or March of 2008 it was downhill for me professionally speaking. I have always wondered what was said to the Queen to expedite my disfavor. Could it be waste, conflict of interest, mismanagement, bad community revitalization planning??? 
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 6:55am
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hey pacman
your cut/paste MJ pieces don't really apply to my posting.
I believe the apprehended young adults were in the 20ish age range and were "east enders"(like yerself!).
Supposedly the vandalism was covered in the MJ, however I missed the article.
No one downtown would repeat the names of the culprits(some may be juveniles--don't know), though talk was a local doctor's son may have been involved.
Can't understand why no pub on this, though a weak reason given was fear of copycat attempts.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 7:23am
| Hard to combat the internal workings of the political office environment, General. Once they have it in for you and you are labeled, might as well leave. Back in 1994, I was working for P&G at Sharon Woods Technical Center in Cincy. Had been there 10 years. Done everything that was asked. Went to work each day with no absentee problems. Was civil to most of them. (There is always a jerk or two in every working scenario). Alot of times, there is some "behind the scenes" meetings going on discussing personnel and if your boss doesn't personnally like you because you don't "kiss up" to him/her, they crucify you. Not only don't you know it's happening, but you never get to defend yourself against the accusations in an unbiased "court". No, looking back on the experience, with their attitude, it was best that I left there. A mean vicious company presenting itself as a "friend to the consumer". That's P&G. There's alot of unhappy people working there. General, you move on and leave the city slugs to lay in their own filth. They're not worthy of your time nor thought at this point. They are not morally upright people. JMO |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 7:39am
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Is this the current group developing the Castell Bldg.
Castell Building plan draws concern Published February 10, 2006 Plans for a nearly $2 million renovation of the Castell Building on Central Avenue has raised some eyebrows of other downtown business owners. The project, which was approved Wednesday by the Planning Commission in a 4-2 vote, would include commercial space in the building's first floor and up to 24 for-rent residential units of varying sizes all less than 750 square feet. "I just believe in downtown," said 3rd Ward Councilman Anthony Marconi, whose company floated the proposal to the city's Planning Commission. Although he is a partner of M & D Central Properties, Marconi - who also is the City Council liaison to the Planning Commission - listened quietly Wednesday while his partner, Ron Decker, delivered the presentation for the building that once was part of the enclosed City Centre Mall. Planning Commission members Perry Thatcher and Tom Williams cast the dissenting votes. The renovation plan, which calls for six studio apartments and 18 one-bedroom apartments, has nearby business owners concerned over the proposed size of the units, which range from 540 to 740 square feet. "If it's professional people (living there), then I'm 150 percent for it," said Jay Moorman, co-owner of BeauVerre-Riordan stained glass studio, which occupies a nearby Central Avenue building. "But if it's low income, then I'm not. "The message that we got when we took this undertaking was that it was going to be upscale," he said. "(500 square feet) is about the size of a motel room." Although the city has a 1,000-square-foot minimum requirement for multi-family residential units, Decker said Wednesday it's unlikely the proposal would change. Part of the plan for the new development includes amendments to the city's minimum requirements because it would be located in an urban setting. "If we had to approach numbers like that (1,000-square-foot units), it's going to kill this," Decker said. "We are not in that type of environment. You might be able to do that in downtown Cincinnati, but not in downtown Middletown." The project will go before City Council later this month for a requested change to the area's zoning. "This building, at least architecturally, has a prominence downtown," said Planning Director Marty Kohler. "This is a fairly key building that we would like to see developed." Contact Dave Greber at (513) 705-2840, or e-mail him at dgreber@coxohio.com.------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 7:57am
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Spider I fail to understand you obsession and dislike for East Enders as you call them. ".... were "east enders"(like yerself!)." Now you are insinuating that People who live in the East End are criminals because someone who supposedly vandalized a building may have come from the east end, irrational thinking to say the least. If you dislike the East End and the people that are there pick your ass up and move downtown plenty of places there for you to chose from. Or go west and rehab one of the vacate houses there if that suits your fancy.
Whether these vandals came from the East End, the West End or anywhere else in Middletown is immaterial to the fact that they committed a crime. Whether there parents are Doctors or laborers is immaterial also, but you like the labels lately.
East Enders are bad, East End is bad. Your thinking escapes me and I am sure many others.  ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 8:46am
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lol pacman--talk about obsession!
I merely mentioned that the alleged culprits in the downtown vandalism were NOT all school system kids and juveniles(as referenced by yer MJ re-print). I did not insinuate anything, and maybe u r reading my post to your convenience.
I am fine with the east end, and have lived there for the last 25 years. Lived in the west end prior. It is all one town. You are the guy who "never goes west of Breiel" as you told me.
I simply don't understand the damage and intent.
Since you love to research, cut/paste, please link me to the related MJ piece, if u can!
My thinking is basic and straight-forward, as posted here.
Maybe you should quit dancing around interpreting my thinking to fit your whim.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 9:31am
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Spider: You make some very good points, and some not so good points. I will try to address them all as objectively as I can. You say: Went down to the Arts Central Foundation outing last night. Great effort by the committee! Music was outstanding and very diverse. Food was s-s0--booths similar. A wonderful evening and opportunity(until the storm hit!), and no one can complain about "nothing to do around here on a nice Saturday night". I say: I think it’s wonderful that you enjoyed the evening. Too bad that the food wasn’t better. However, I’m sure that you will agree that different people have different tastes. If a “rave” and a “turkey shoot” and a “rattlesnake round-up” were the only things scheduled next Saturday, would you make the same observation that: “no one can complain about "nothing to do around here on a nice Saturday night".”??? Are you saying that everyone from the youngest to the oldest, the teenagers to the middle-agers, the senior citizens to the toddlers, the high brows to the low lifes should ALL enjoy, flock to, and patronize the arts??? If so, must all of these groups likewise support each and every activity that the other groups enjoy??? You say: Great effort by Mr.Cohen and his crew at the cemetary. Ken Cohen grew up here through the local school system, and along with his family, continue to donate many resources for the betterment of our city. Though he doesn't live here any more, he obviously still cares quite a bit. I say: I agree wholeheartedly!!! BUT (there’s always a “but”, isn’t there?), more so for the employees than Mr. Cohen himself. I say this not to demean Mr. Cohen or his family. I would never do that as they have given so much to this area. However, as long as Mr. Cohen desires to hold such positions such as the High Hoo-Ha of “Middletown Moving Forward” he bears an obligation to act in a manner to keep Middletown moving forward! You Say: Two very positive situations yesterday. I say: I agree wholeheartedly!!! You say: Now for the bad news and 2day's spider rant: Extremely depressed over the vandalism downtown recently. The new windows installed in the old Castell Building have been seriously damaged by a group of young punks who climbed atop the Shared Harvest/TVM building to not only break the TVM antenna, but to hurl bricks across the street, shattering dozens of brand new beautiful windows. The mural on the side of this building has now been cut for no good reason. I say: I agree wholeheartedly!!! Whether or not some of the things mentioned were paid for with “forgivable loans” form the taxpayers, such actions are completely inexcusable!!! You say: The recent effort to beautify the bicentennial commons has been diluted by theft of a large amount of the newly planted flowers and plants. I say: I singled out the preceding statement for a reason. I’ll return to it shortly. You say: Why is this happening? Why can't our citizens embrace these positive efforts(by private citizens and businesses) instead of showing their resentment by destroying these positive efforts? I say: These are two completely unrelated issues! Are you trying to say that anyone who does not “embrace” the new windows, the flowers at the commons, or the murals MUST BE the SAME ones who are committing the VANDALISM??? Spider, my friend, that is ABSURD!!! What mature adults prefer to either “embrace” or not to “embrace” has absolutely nothing to do with what immature criminals choose to vandalize!!! I also say: Returning to the “recent effort to beautify the bicentennial commons with a large amount of newly planted flowers and plants”, I must ask if they are included under your comment “(by private citizens and businesses)”? Further, in the last three years, by my memory (which is of course suspect), there has been ONE event at Bicentennial Commons, and that was simply a fireworks display. I recall a gathering of city notables where I objected to the city having spent $50K on the Commons, One of them mentioned Bicentennial Commons as one of our “jewels” and I asked “when was the last event held there or when is the next one scheduled?” No one could answer that question. (And they probably still can’t today!!!) You say: This damage was not caused by young juveniles who don't know better, but by educated young adults!! Why??? I say: No, I don’t know why. Do you??? I wasn’t even aware of it. How do you know the demographics of the perpetrators if you don’t know who did it? You say: And why hasn't this been front page news naming names and rallying the community to both punish the vandals to the fullest, and support the improvement efforts? I say: I do NOT know why it hasn’t been FRONT PAGE news!!! Perhaps it is because of the “GOOD NEWS ONLY” policy that seems to be the rule around here? I have been asking the same question about some of the things going on at City Hall. Why aren’t those things front page news???? All we read about is how WONDERFUL everything is (or is going to be) in our city, at least how wonderful it could be if only we short-xighted cheapskates would open up our pocketbooks and give city hall the rest of our money!! You say: Broad Street Bash--ACF festival--positive remodeling downtown. Say what you like about downtown, however there is more improvement going on down there than the rest of the city combined. I say: These are noble efforts! They just are NOT as huge as some seem to think. I had new windows installed a couple of years ago, and not one person came to adore them!! We’ve been remodeling, bit by bit, for several years, and not even one “good news” story in The Journal. (And I betcha we’ll be finished before downtown is, too!) No murals on the exterior walls at our house, though. It probably would violate some city code or other. (Besides, we wouldn’t want the HUGE CROWDS that the things seem to draw (NOT!) You say: Talked to a lot of yer favotite local figures yesterday, and had good meaningful conversation with all of them. Council,Admin,Mrs.Mort, downtown businesses etc. The mood was upbeat and excellent. I say: What did you talk about? What EXACTLY were they “upbeat” about? Did you ask about any of the problems that they refuse to acknowledge? Did you ask why they refuse to recognize conflicts of interest? Downtown businesses??? Would those be NEW ones or the next to leave??? Perhaps you should have asked THEM why the downtown vandalism wasn’t “front page news”, or did they refuse to recognize it? You say: Should have been a LOT more local support. Didn't see Vet, pacman, I say: No, you did not. There were also over 50,000 other Middletonians that you did not see there. That is why I maintain that such events must be privately funded. There is a small group of people in Middletown that feels that THEIR wants, no matter what they are, should be provided by the rest of the citizens. You are a businessman! Which showroom would you enlarge? The one that is always “standing room only”, or the one that has never even had a line at the ticket booth? You continued: Didn't read about any of them volunteering for the cemetary cleanup either. I say: No, you did not. But think about who else you did NOT see there! You did NOT see the people whose job it was to do that work!!! You did NOT see the ones who were RESPONSIBLE for the upkeep of the cemetery!!! That’s understandable though. From your other comments, THOSE PEOPLE were busy getting ready for the Arts Festival! You say: Must have been at home on their pcs typing about having another meeting to "throw the bums out/show them the door/lock them all up" so their new faces(what new faces?) can take over and "fix things!". I say: I don’t know where they were, and I don’t know where you were. What I DO know is that we did our job. We paid our taxes so that City Hall could maintain that cemetery. You’ve told us where the city’s big-wigs and the super volunteers were. Anything else that you’d like to ask? You say: Can anyone enlighten me on the names of the vandals downtown or the MJ piece detailing the incident? I say: No, I cannot. Perhaps if I spent a lot of money advertising in The Journal, I could put some pressure on them to print something besides the “GOOD NEWS ONLY” pushed by city hall and their cheerleaders. Do YOU know anyone who advertises in The Journal? And as far as finding the names of the vandals, if I could help in any way, I certainly would. Perhaps we should band together, chip in some money, and hire some people full time to investigate crime in the city? Of course we’d all have to tighten our belts and cut down on the parties and festivals to do that, wouldn’t we? You closed by saying: Think maybe it is finally time to either put up or shut up? Or is ranting on message boards just too ego-rewarding and convenient? I’ll close by saying: Yes, it IS time to put up or shut up. If we don’t act by November it will be too late. Ranting on message boards is neither rewarding nor convenient, but one must use the tools one has available, and there are other things in the works. (Some of us just don’t try to get a front-page picture for every little thing, though. Talk about ego-rewarding? Sheesh!) ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 10:12am
|
wow Mike
well--I pretty much agree with what you are saying.
I was told that the vandals were caught(so their names are known), at least some were not juveniles, and that they climbed the fire escape behind the TVM building, bent the TVM antenna(again) then began throwing bricks across the street smashing the new windows.
Micheal--you know how bad the windows looked before replacement. When I attended the bash, the new windows and frames were installed and were beautiful. We are talking about a LOT of windows between the two adjacent buildings. Have no clue as to who paid for them or how, though it is a privately owned concern. To me--this vandalism is very troubling.
Bicentennial Commons--I totally agree with your thinking. Why improve something that is not used? Why is it not used? Will it be used this summer?
This town could use a good rave, rattlesnake festival or every other diverse event possible. Bring on something for everyone. The music Saturday offered something for pretty much every diverse taste.
I agree about the cemetary--where were city reps(at least to monitor their responsibility?)
With all of the outrage expressed on this message board, ya might expect a few posters to show up to walk their talk.
I am working towards November also, and have agrresively supported one candidate already. I preach daily to encourage others to step forward, but am not having much success. Hopefully all concerned will volunteer for the various boards and committees. We can tip their balance with continued effort.
You know--I ?ed my real purpose and effort when I hit 300 posts on this forum.
Now I am at 350, and wonder why I persist. The repitition has become maddening.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 10:53am
|
4 pacman and others:
Downtown Vandalism
Bad news: We had some vandalism downtown that affected Port Middletown Park, the Castell, Sebald and TV Middletown buildings and some of our street lights. This vandalism resulted in tens of thousands of dollars in damages. Good news: the Police Division caught the suspected vandals. They are from Middletown, in their early 20s, and had apparently gained access to the roof of one of the buildings downtown. They have been charged with criminal trespassing; the investigation is ongoing and additional charges may result. Task Force on Pawn Shops/24 hour businesses
I have established a multi-disciplinary staff task force on the above to focus on regulating businesses that might feed into our crime system. We have had a number of shops that buy second hand items, gold, etc. pop up in town and we want to ensure that these are reputable businesses. As such we will be examining all sorts of policies and ordinances regarding hours of operation, registration of goods purchased, signs in windows, signs on vehicles and the like. Staff will do our research and bring this item to the 1st Council meeting in July so that we can also include your thoughts and ideas on this topic. Business Retention Committee I am really proud of the efforts of the Business Retention Committee. Denise Hamet from our ED Department has done a great job of working with Community Leaders who gather to call on our businesses in Middletown. These visits provide valuable information on things the city can do to assist our current businesses in remaining successful and growing. We will have a presentation at Tuesday’s Council meeting by the group. Section 8 HUD Audit- Technical Assistance visit Staff, CONSOC and I met with HUD to discuss their review of the CONSOC records regarding our Section 8 program. HUD was pleased with the records kept by CONSOC and with their/our performance as a Housing Agency. HUD specifically examined the records associated with the # units leased and the payments for the units. HUD mentioned that we are in the top 300 Housing Agencies in the country in terms of size. HUD measures program success by high lease rate and low vacancy rate; by HUD standards we have a successful program. The 15 month average number of units leased was 24,061, which equals 1,604 unit average per month. The cap of units that Council established is 1662. We also asked HUD for advice on improvements that we can make to the Housing Agency reporting to Council and Council action on Agency matters. We continue to do research in this area. Bike path We will do some work on the Energy Efficiency grant to see if the bike path is a feasible project. I’ve heard from a few council members on this topic and it looks as though there is interest in pursuing the bike path. Again, before we do any significant work on either the bike path or the energy efficient building improvements, we want to gauge interest. If the bike path project does not pan out, we will pursue building and facility improvements. The time frame is tight and we will need the latitude to make decisions quickly if we are to receive any funding. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 11:21am
|
Spider......the question is SO...............? Their age is immaterial to me they committed a crime, whether they are 15 or 20. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 12:09pm
| Observations from Gilleland's notes in Spider's post-Vandalism- make the families pay for the damage. Make the vandals work it off for a year or two taking their entire wages to pay for the damage. Task Force on reputable businesses. She says businesses "pop up" in town. What?? You mean you don't have a handle on who's coming to town, what they sell, what their intentions are BEFORE settling in to do business? Why wouldn't the city want to know this to monitor it? There wasn't an indication that some of these pawn shops or flea market type operations may present a problem? Isn't it ironic that we have a "Business Retention Committee" to call on businesses to assist in remaining successful and grow, while simultaneously doing the prevention of banners, size of advertising signs, raids on small time petty gambling and other roadblocks that hinder businesses from prospering?? Section 8- Gilleland breaks her arm patting herself and others on the back for passing some bogus, glossed over HUD audit while stating that Middletown is one of the top 300 housing agencies in the country in terms of size- (nothing to be proud of Judith if you haven't figured that out by now), having the audacity to state that we have a successful program with having 1604 out of the 1662 maximum allowable. (As if that's a prideful thing- to have a large welfare state here in town). What a pathetic thing to feel good about Gilleland. Your focus for this town is all screwed up lady!!! Lastly, we have the old bike path- an obvious waste of money if for no other reason than a lack of use, no matter what money is spent for improvements. It makes more sense to do money saving efforts in the city buildings for more long term savings and to benefit the MAJORITY of taxpayers, unlike the bike path. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 12:20pm
|
sorry pacman--I thought you were our new crime stat czar and cub reporter for cut/pasting MJ news. maybe only crime in schools. Vet--amazing thinking that we read in the city manager update.
I have 3 long-running businesses in all areas of the city and have NEVER been contacted by city Econ D people regarding retention,expansion or anything for that matter.
And now they want to add a code enforcement person?
the charter review minutes are hysterical.
Aren't these the same names that put us int to this municipal mess and served on the past charter review committees? Why keep choosing them? Their thinking obviously hasn't worked well.
|
Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 1:33pm
|
To: Judy Gilleland -
I respectfully disagree with the priorities that City staff has developed for the use of $180,000+ of supplementary CDBG Program funding that will be presented tonight to the City Council. While it would be nice to pave several hundred lineal feet of alleys and to purchase/install playground equipment in Wards 1 and 2, you have a much higher priority. That is, to ensure that low- to moderate-income homeowners will have access to capital to address Housing Code Violations that your staff will be issuing.
As you are well aware, large amounts of HUD funds have been lost/wasted for some time now on housing rehabilitation and purchase/rehabilitation projects. Between funds that remain in the Housing Rehabilitation Revolving Loan Fund and a small amount of new HOME Program funds, you don't have a great deal of resources available given the large number of homeowners who will have housing code violation issues and no personal funds to deal with same.
The expanded partnership that I established with People Working Cooperatively in mid-2007 prior to your arrival is a good one. I also take pride in working with their staff and Fifth Third Bank in initiating what has become a great working relationship with the Federal Home Loan Bank of Cincinnati and expanded funding.
For every dollar of HUD funds that the City of Middletown makes available to PWC, an even greater amount of matching funds are leveraged from Duke Energy, FHLB - Cincinnati, etc. Were you to revise your proposal and allocate $138,000+ in supplementary CDBG funds, 40 homeowners could receive an average of $10,000 apiece to address violations. This would be especially helpful for the elderly, permanently disabled and the unemployed.
Please give this your utmost consideration.
My alternative recommendation is as follows:
Target Areas Commercial Code Enforcement Inspector (Part-Time) $25,000*
Minor Housing Rehabilitation Program (People Working Cooperatively) $138,630** Program Administration $18,180 City staff recommendations are as follows:
Target Areas Commercial Code Enforcement Inspector (Part-Time) $25,000
Target Areas Neighborhood Alley Repaving $69,315
Target Areas Neighborhoods Playground Equipment $69,314.50
Program Administration $18,180 |
Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 1:47pm
|
CORRECTED ALTERNATIVE SUPPLEMENTARY CDBG PROGRAM BUDGET
My "corrected" alternative recommendation is as follows:
Historic Pioneer Cemetery Revitalization Fund $33,630*
Minor Housing Rehabilitation Program (People Working Cooperatively) $130,000 Program Administration $18,180
* This does not include the $11,000 in CDBG funds already promised by senior City staff.
NRS
P.S. Sorry for the omission Miss Vivian. Keep on keeping on! |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 2:59pm
|
interesting thinking, general!
why are we talking about little-used park improvements and a huge sum for an even less-used bike path?
We have poor homeowners with serious repair needs. Fire stations in need of "greener" structural improvements. we simply don't need any more flowers, swing sets or more $$ wasted on the bike path.
This is a city in need of serious change and up-dating.
We must quit pretending to be on par with Mason or Centerville.
jmo
|
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 4:24pm
A Business just open one day without prior approval or of getting a business license to operate and the city know's nothing about the nature of the business ?? The person in charge of business license is not the same one that was in charge of the police property room is it ? 
City council & Gilleland really like their committee's & sub-committee's don't they ? I have lived in several town's and cities and have never seen anything like Middletown. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 4:29pm
|
Spider, yes the stats do mean something as I have a son in Junior High and that is more important than this word game you are playing with everyone. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 4:32pm
|
Ms Gilleland states:
"HUD measures program success by high lease rate and low vacancy rate; by HUD standards we have a successful program."
If we cut the Section 8 Housing Voucher Program to about 400-500 vouchers, where it should be, we would be a 100% success, with 100% occupancy. Now that is something to strive for.
I wonder what Council and the Admin's standards are for a Successful City.....it's time we start working on the City as a whole.  ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 5:19pm
| Thank you Pacman! We need more people like you! Hold their feet to the fire! |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 8:50pm
|
Spider I don't think you or I will be seeing anyone from this committee from what I gather watching tonights council meeting they are concentrating on the top 10 employers in town. I am way down on the list for that one.
 Business Retention Committee
I am really proud of the efforts of the Business Retention Committee. Denise Hamet from our ED Department has done a great job of working with Community Leaders who gather to call on our businesses in Middletown. These visits provide valuable information on things the city can do to assist our current businesses in remaining successful and growing. We will have a presentation at Tuesday’s Council meeting by the group. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 11:49pm
|
I have not spoken on here for a long time. I have a few things to say........
The building windows across from TVM was vandalized. The vandals were caught. 20 year olds who live in the east end. One of the parents of the kid is a doctor of some kind. Lot of flowers being planted? By who? Tobacco Connection as done that since they moved in. So has Beau Verre & Digital Visuals. The City manages the big pots on the sidewalks. I've noticed nothing different about the Pioneer Cemetery. Clean & tidy as always. No new flowers from Armbruster that I have noticed. Not the first time TVM's antennae has been broken in the past couple of years. Or the Ifiber connection broken. Never heard of the mural being cut by vandals, heard it's only separating because paint doesn't agree with the glass. Being downtown I deal with crap every day. Whether a neighboring business, vandals, trash or just panhandlers. Yes, we have panhandlers down town asking for money, not sex. What's the difference? If there's a problem I take care of it the best I can. I try to take care of my business area, but I have to deal with another business that is also located in my building. Am working on that as I write. Hope to be relocated in a couple of months. Still will be downtown, but in our own building and away from a "certain" business. My husband is the VP of the Art Central Foundation. Yes, we all worked out butts off for the Main Street Arts & Music Festival. Who do you think cleaned up around the down town? Thanks to the City also. How many of you returned the favor? The music was free. All you had to do was bring a lawn chair. Maybe buy a beer or a sandwich from a vendor. Kids' Area was a huge hit this year.,,non stop. |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 11:51pm
| ANOTHER THING...WHY IS THIS LISTED AS OUTSIDE OF MIDDLETOWN ON THIE FORUM WHEN IT WAS DOWNTOWN MIDDLETOWN!??? I CAN'T FIGURE YOU PEOPLE OUT. |
Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 4:50am
To All Concerned, I strongly agree with Nelson in this approach to the use of these supplemental funds. If the city can get over $2.00 for every $1.00 spent for home improvements, I would think this is a very wise and prudent use of funds. If repairs are less per household, then more can be spent for others. Improving homes improves our community more than any other dollars spent. True, our roads, parks and businesses need improvements, but the quality of housing impacts a community more than any other issue. Next is the communities school system. Please review and question any dollars spent from HUD. HUD’s focus is housing, improving the quality and safety of housing. Improving the availability of housing and helping buyers purchase housing. If Sincerely, Paul From: Judy - I respectfully disagree with the priorities that City staff has developed for the use of $180,000+ of supplementary CDBG Program funding that will be presented tonight to the City Council. While it would be nice to pave several hundred lineal feet of alleys and to purchase/install playground equipment in Wards 1 and 2, you have a much higher priority. That is, to ensure that low- to moderate-income homeowners will have access to capital to address Housing Code Violations that your staff will be issuing. As you are well aware, large amounts of HUD funds have been lost/wasted for some time now on housing rehabilitation and purchase/rehabilitation projects. Between funds that remain in the Housing Rehabilitation Revolving Loan Fund and a small amount of new HOME Program funds, you don't have a great deal of resources available given the large number of homeowners who will have housing code violation issues and no personal funds to deal with same. The expanded partnership that I established with People Working Cooperatively in mid-2007 prior to your arrival is a good one. I also take pride in working with their staff and Fifth Third Bank in initiating what has become a great working relationship with the Federal Home Loan Bank of For every dollar of HUD funds that the City of Middletown makes available to PWC, an even greater amount of matching funds are leveraged from Duke Energy, FHLB - Cincinnati, etc. Were you to revise your proposal and allocate $130,000+ in supplementary CDBG funds, 40 homeowners could receive an average of $10,000 apiece to address violations. This would be especially helpful for the elderly, permanently disabled and the unemployed. Please give this your utmost consideration. My "corrected" alternative recommendation is as follows: Historic Pioneer Cemetery Revitalization Fund $33,630 Minor Housing Rehabilitation Program (People Working Cooperatively) $130,000 Program Administration $18,180 The above does not include $11,000 in current CDBG funds already promised for the revitalization of the Historic Pioneer Cemetery
City staff recommendations are as follows: Target Areas Commercial Code Enforcement Inspector (Part-Time) $25,000 Target Areas Neighborhood Alley Repaving $69,315 Target Areas Neighborhoods Playground Equipment $69,314.50 Program Administration $18,180 |
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 4:56am
|
"How many of you returned the favor? The music was free. All you had to do was bring a lawn chair. Maybe buy a beer or a sandwich from a vendor. Kids' Area was a huge hit this year.,,non stop."
Here we go again another one who thinks everyones world revolves around the downtown world. What is the "Main Street Arts & Music Festival", never heard of it until some of you started in about it here. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 6:09am
|
LESSONS IN HYPOCRISY
Having previously worked for the City of Middletown has given me a totally new perspective on the HYPOCRITICAL behavior of certain staff members and some elected officials. Pacman, they are Chameleons! Spider John, the citizens of our community suffer because of their elitist, all-knowing attitudes!
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 7:18am
| Mom- Thank you for your efforts in the downtown area. I know you and others are very passionate about your business and the asthetics in and around downtown. In offering the festival, you are providing people another choice for entertainment in town. You are to be commended. As for me, unfortunately, I have joined the thousands of citizens that have been "beaten down" over the years as to enthusiasm for community events. The Bash is a great idea from Mr. Wendel. Mr. Wood and his group are doing a great job trying to have Sunset Pool survive to offer alternatives. There is the Blues and Bikes coming up.I think we are all seeing a feeling of depression that has permeated the community caused by the lack of faith in city leaders who provide us with nothing to feel good about. IMO, when people are depressed about their future, they tend to stay at home and not fraternize with their fellow citizens. They are probably hardpressed to talk to their neighbors anymore. The city leaders ineptness has not only effected this town's operation and progression, but it has taken it's toll on the people. JMO |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 7:25am
|
Vet are you saying the Residents of Middletown have a "MORALE" issue and that it is declining....that the residents have no more "esprit de corps".......... hmmmmmm you may be on to something here. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 8:22am
I believe the festival is mentioned above, well before me. I never said the world revolves around downtown. The downtown seems to be a favorite bashing topic for this site. Sorry for the eyesore. Why don't you just drive around it? |
Pacman wrote:Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 10:15am
LESSONS FOR THE REVITALIZATION OF DOWNTOWN MIDDLETOWN - THE OKLAHOMA CITY (BRICKTOWN) SUCCESS STORY
Bricktown (Oklahoma City)From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaNOTE: I worked for the City of Oklahoma City for almost 10 years and witnessed first-hand how local government, the business community and neighborhood residents worked together in successfully reclaiming a once decaying (and mostly vacant) warehouse district in the heart of downtown. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bricktown.jpg"> 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bricktown.jpg"> The Bricktown Canal Once a major http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warehouse_district - warehouse district and the original site of the city, Bricktown is a growing entertainment district in downtown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City - Oklahoma City . It is home to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Bricktown_Ballpark - AT&T Bricktown Ballpark and the navigable Bricktown Canal. Other attractions include the Oklahoma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Run_of_1889 - Land Run monument, numerous bars and dance clubs, casual and fine dining restaurants, retail shops such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_Pro_Shops - Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World, a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harkins_Theatres - Harkins movie theatre, hotels such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residence_Inn_by_Marriott - Residence Inn by Marriott , and live music venues, including http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Toby_Keiths_I_Love_This_Bar_%26_Grill&action=edit&redlink=1 - Toby Keith's I Love This Bar & Grill . The corporate headquarters of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Drive_In - Sonic Drive In is also located here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartland_Flyer - Amtrak's Heartland Flyer service to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ft._Worth - Ft. Worth departs every morning from the old Santa Fe Depot located by the west entrance to Bricktown, and returns in the evenings. |
Posted By: here&now
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 10:45am
|
I do not post much here but I read everyday. I would just like to say that I have lived in Middletown all my life (33 years) and downtown has changed a lot not all good. But at least some people are trying to make this town what it once was. (MadisonMom) Others just come on here and bi**h but make no effort to help. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 11:05am
|
Here&Now
I would like to downtown area to live again....however it will never happen with those that we now have in office.
MadisonMom, I drove through downtown yesterday and understand the problems that you are having. The City has no vision for the downtown and that's why you are having these problems. |
Posted By: here&now
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 11:16am
|
Mrs.Moon I agree that those in office are AWFUL but its along time till November. I just meant that some people on this site only complain. In your case you seen that the cemetery needed work and the city was not doing it so you took matters in to your on hands. That is a great Thing, If some of the posters on here did that instead of waiting for the city to do it maybe downtown would not look like it does today. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 12:35pm
| Pacman- I guess I am saying that people in town are "circling the wagons". Go out for a meal on a Friday or Saturday evening and notice that the number of people have dwindled as compared to better times. The streets are relatively empty. The combination of the poor economy, people losing their jobs, high prices at the pump and the grocery store, a feeling of hopelessness of staying even, much less getting ahead has evaporated. THEN---- you add the ineptitude of the city leaders who are not intelligent enough to provide even the basics for a town to survive and you have a recipe for major citizen depression. Doesn't matter whether it's a Blues Fest, an Art festival, a parade, a downtown bash, a council or school board meeting, or any other event to promote entertainment, it will not be well attended because people don't want to leave the house. They've been beaten down for too long with no hope in sight and in the city leaders' case, they have given the people no reason to be interested in what they do- other than to pound their mode of operation on every front. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 2:24pm
|
MadisonMom, this is all that can be said about the Festival:
"Went down to the Arts Central Foundation outing last night. Great effort by the committee!
Music was outstanding and very diverse. Food was s-s0--booths similar."
Actually I was hoping for a bit more. The only Art goings on I ever heard about downtown was GOT Art. Your husband being the VP I thought you could tell us more.
Maybe we could move one of these shin digs....dare I say it out to the, the, the "East End" after 122 is done. Got a big open space in the Towne Mall that could be used if they agree. Easy access from many areas, many of the restaurants in town are right there. Hotels which fill up on the weekend, would give them something to do and spend their $$$$$$. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 2:48pm
| But Pac- having these activities in the Towne Mall area would pull the people away from the downtown area and defeat the purpose of having events for the downtown. Also, hasn't the downtown area been designated as the "Got Art" center with Beau Verre as the hub? They are trying to find a theme to draw people down there and the theme is art. Problem is, there may not be enough "cultured" people living in Middletown to really appreciate nor understand the "art thing" to support it. It's still a relatively "uncultured" blue collar town and may always be. More beer drinking than wine tasting type of crowd. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 03 2009 at 3:22pm
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Hahahaha, I knew the first person to comment would bring that up, but I thought it would be someone with a business interest downtown. They have got enough festivals to move one somewhere else.
I agree with the art thing Vet. Middletown is just not an Art mecca and not enough people can afford to buy, not even high end art just $100-500.00 art to support it here, in my opinion. I have bought art from Walden downtown, but I can't afford to do that on a regular basis. Beau Verre can locate anywhere as can Walden as they are sought after artists and specialists. They do not rely on Middletown residents to support them.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 04 2009 at 7:10am
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Here&Now States
"I agree that those in office are AWFUL but its along time till November. I just meant that some people on this site only complain. In your case you seen that the cemetery needed work and the city was not doing it so you took matters in to your on hands. That is a great Thing, If some of the posters on here did that instead of waiting for the city to do it maybe downtown would not look like it does today."
So let me get this right:
Talking about an under perforning school system.
Talking about excessive Section 8
Talking about HUD Issues
Talking about the Lack of Jobs
Talking about a City who issues letters of basically Reprimand to it's Citizens and yet can't do the basics itself.
Talking about infrastructure which is and has not been maintained for years.
Talking about a Council which seems to have lost it's desire to communicate with its citizens.
Talking about the Crime rate in the Schools
Talking about Poverty
Talking about a City which has lost it's socioeconomic balance.
Talking about a City that is loosing its retail businesses at an alarming rate.
etc., etc., etc.
Yes you may not like the style that we all talk about these issues and sometimes we can get carried away, but at the end of the day these are all important issues that need to be addressed by the City and its citizens sooner rather than later.
This in your book is complaining and if we all went out and pulled up a weed somewhere that is going to help.
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 04 2009 at 9:42am
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Pacman |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 04 2009 at 10:28am
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Vivian projects like this are fine and doable around here. What I am talking about is placing all of your eggs in one basket. In otherwords focusing on making downtown an Art lovers dream or a Mecca for the Art World it is just not feasible in Middletown. I personally think the City Council and Admin spend entirely to much time on the Downtown area with their Art World aspirations while the rest of Middletown suffers. Now that being said if PRIVATE Individuals with PRIVATE MONEY want to turn downtown into a Major Art Mecca and destination hey I am all for that.
But the City needs to look at the bigger picture and stop wasting so many resources and so much time just on the downtown while the rest of Rome Burns. Folks times have changed and for now people and businesses for the most part want to be nearer to I-75 or other major transportation artery. That is just how it is,
Is there a reason why the other City's surrounding us have a yearly big Garage sale and Middletown doesn't? Are we just to Big?
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 04 2009 at 11:01am
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Pacman WE HAVE NO LEADERSHIP |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Jun 04 2009 at 11:30pm
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You guys are killing me on here!
You tell me what East End Businesses are doing for the citizens of Middletown? You suggest the downtown festival move to the east end, that sort of defeats the purpose of doing "downtown events". The Bash seems to draw lots of people, and why is that? The man heading that event owns a business in Franklin for God's sake! What sort of things do the East End businesses do to draw people from the heart of Middletown out of the downtown? Towne Mall is dead, so why don't you use the East End businesses to host a "concert", "music festival", "bash", etc.? With the construction going on in the east end, I try to actually reroute myself from that area. The "hopping" area close to the east end is actually the Shopping Center & the Breiel Blvd area. My Opinion Only, if that counts for anything. |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Jun 04 2009 at 11:36pm
Do you not think this is happening to other cities? Middletown is not the only city affected. I do everything in Middletown, except when I need a book store. What about you? |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Jun 04 2009 at 11:37pm
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The above events you mentioned are FREE. Bring a lawn chair. You don't have to buy anything if you don't want. What is wrong with listening to great music? Absolutely nothing!
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 6:45am
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"You suggest the downtown festival move to the east end, that sort of defeats the purpose of doing "downtown events". The Bash seems to draw lots of people, and why is that? The man heading that event owns a business in Franklin for God's sake! What sort of things do the East End businesses do to draw people from the heart of Middletown out of the downtown? Towne Mall is dead, so why don't you use the East End businesses to host a "concert", "music festival", "bash", etc.? With the construction going on in the east end, I try to actually reroute myself from that area." #1 I suggest moving a Festival to the East End, not the Arts one specifically.
#2 I stated after the construction on 122 is done.
#3 The Towne Mall is no more "DEAD" than downtown is on any given day or weekend that a Festival is not going on. I would venture a far greater amount of traffic is driving by the Mall area than downtown.
#4 The Breiel area does not have the parking needed for anything like a Concert, hence the Towne Mall recommendation.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 7:47am
| Mom- I buy almost everything here in Middletown. Always have. Lowe's, Sears, fast food, gas, groceries, car repairs, medicine for the wife, lawn supplies, ----all bought in Middletown. As for the music and bringing a lawn chair for free---- yes, I attend the Blues and Bikes every year. Have them taped on cassette from the first one ever held to the most current. Depending on the music type, I will attend these events downtown ( or at the AK pavillion on occasion) As for your reply about people staying home alot nowadays--- Yes, it is happening in other cities. I was just trying to compare the Middletown of old to the way it is now. This "stay at home" mentality is partly due to depression caused by the economy and partly due to the depression of the people as to how they view this town being run. Why do you appear to be so "testy" and irritable toward these generalized statements? You seem on edge as you reply to these posts. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 5:34pm
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Vet,
We may have to forgive Mad Mom for her "testiness".
I fear that she runs with a bad crowd. Some of the information she was given on this message board (backed up with pertinent section and verse from the Ohio Revised Code, I might add) was probably contrary to what she had been told by some of her associates.
That gang has probably brainwashed her into believing that WE are the "bad crowd".  ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Jun 06 2009 at 10:33pm
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1) Find me one business in the East End that is willing to help promote "something" in their part of town.
2) I am a wife, mother, grandmother, daughter, daughter-in-law, sister, friend, and business owner. 3) To some of you that know who I am, it has been tough in the building that we are located, I appreciate your confidentiality. 4) Hubby and I discussed staying downtown, it's part of our identity. Our 2 major clients are located outside of the city, by the way. 5) Downtown is close to our home & our 2 teenagers still trying to make it thru high school, yes it is Madison. I did not graduate from Madison, hubby did in 1976. 6) If I sound a little stressed? I will let you know more after Wednesday of this coming week. Please if you know my identity, keep it to yourself. Thanks. 7) The building that my business is located, is also where I shopped with my parents as a child. Before anyone else moved it. (it was like des'ja vous (sp), when inspecting when we checked out the place). 8) Location is not a problem for us, unloading supplies & customers finding us IS! 9) I initially posted to this site because to me Middletown is downtown first and then the surrounding areas second. I expected positive reactions for downtown, but that is probably not the case in this day & age. I have always been a loyal shopper/buyer in Middletown as personal and business (as much as possible for the business, limited). 10) As a business owner, you can pick & choose who you think will help your business along when it comes to.....sponsorship so to speak. This year was pretty much the defining year for us, at this point in our business. The Art Central Foundation, Madison Township Springfest and The MidFirst Ohio Challenge. There is a limit to time/money you can do with each one as being a major player. Personalities play in to this. These 3 are personal and motivational for us. Sorry if you disagree. But, these 3 have been good for us. You have to remember, this is MY OPINION AND POSTINGS ONLY, not my hubby. I am on 2 of these committees, he is on 1. That's not to say we don't support each other. Yeah, I've been testy lately. Owning a business and life combined can be brutal sometimes. I also have some personal family issues happening, but thank god for good doctors and Jack Daniels! And sometimes 56 Degrees after work or someplace else on the EAST end that serves alcohol (El Rancho). I'm also 51 yrs of age and allowed to be the way I am!!!! Please don't make me regret this post!!!! Thanks Deb |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 07 2009 at 10:29am
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MadisonMom my answers are the Blue, I don't think we are to far from being similar in our issues.
1) Find me one business in the East End that is willing to help promote "something" in their part of town.
2) I am a wife, mother, grandmother, daughter, daughter-in-law, sister, friend, and business owner.
I am a husband, father, son, son-in-law, brother friend and a business owner. 3) To some of you that know who I am, it has been tough in the building that we are located, I appreciate your confidentiality.
To some of you that know who I am, it has been tough in Middletown where we are located, I appreciate your confidentiality. 4) Hubby and I discussed staying downtown, it's part of our identity. Our 2 major clients are located outside of the city, by the way.Wifey and I discussed staying in Middletown, it's where we like to live.
5) Downtown is close to our home & our 2 teenagers still trying to make it thru high school, yes it is Madison. I did not graduate from Madison, hubby did in 1976.
East End is close to our home & our 1 teenager is still trying to make it thru Jr. High school, and it is a Private School, whether it is next year is still being discussed due to the economy. I did not graduate from Middletown.
6) If I sound a little stressed? I will let you know more after Wednesday of this coming week. Please if you know my identity, keep it to yourself. Thanks. If I sound a little stressed, it is because I am, owning a small business in a bad economy will do that to you. Please if you know my identity, keep it to yourself. Thanks. 7) The building that my business is located, is also where I shopped with my parents as a child. Before anyone else moved it. (it was like des'ja vous (sp), when inspecting when we checked out the place).
I did not grow up here. 8) Location is not a problem for us, unloading supplies & customers finding us IS!
Location is currently a problem for us & finding customers is also at this time.
9) I initially posted to this site because to me Middletown is downtown first and then the surrounding areas second. I expected positive reactions for downtown, but that is probably not the case in this day & age. I have always been a loyal shopper/buyer in Middletown as personal and business (as much as possible for the business, limited). I initially posted to this site because to me Middletown focuses to much on downtown and the past and ignores much of the surrounding areas. I expect that if the downtown area wants to be re-developed it be done with Private Funds and the City Admin and Council get back to running the whole City. I have always been a loyal shopper/buyer in Middletown as personal and business (as much as possible for the business, limited).
10) As a business owner, you can pick & choose who you think will help your business along when it comes to.....sponsorship so to speak. This year was pretty much the defining year for us, at this point in our business. The Art Central Foundation, Madison Township Springfest and The MidFirst Ohio Challenge. There is a limit to time/money you can do with each one as being a major player. Personalities play in to this. These 3 are personal and motivational for us. Sorry if you disagree. But, these 3 have been good for us.
As a business owner, you can pick & choose who you think will help your business along when it comes to.....sponsorship so to speak. |
Posted By: Smokey Burgess
Date Posted: Jun 07 2009 at 4:12pm
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Information presented last summer by Skip Batten, Neighborhood Improvement Advisor for the City of Middletown to the now-defunct HUD Consolidated Planning Committee plus City Councilmen Schiavone, Armbruster and Marconi, indicated that over $70,000 in federal funds were spent on this project in 2004 or 2005. $46,000+ was attributable to rehab.
February 3, 2009
To Ed Richter -
In the most recent e-mail that was sent to you, it was noted where a property on 8th Street was not only rehabbed, but a significant amount of HUD funds were used to refinance private debt. This information was fully shared with the HUD Consolidated Planning Committee and City Councilmen Schiavone, Marconi and Armbruster by Skip Batten.
In addition to that situation, Skip mentioned that a minimum of five other previous housing rehab participants had private debt refinanced with HUD funds. Skip has the original files for all of this and he provided copies of some information to City Councilman Marconi.
All of the above happened prior to my arrival in Middletown.
Nelson Self
Sheriff Sale Date: 07-May-09
Plaintiff: NANCY E. NIX, TREASURER Defendant: JEWELL BELL, ET AL Address: 810 EIGHTH AVE., MIDDLETOWN 45044 Case # : CV08073058 Appraised: $15576.01 Starting Bid: $0 |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 08 2009 at 6:45am
| Would this have been caught in the most recent HUD audit IF- the audit wasn't treated as just a glossed over visit and been done in a thorough fashion? What would have happened if a real HUD auditor saw this info- specifically the part about the refinancing of private debt? |
Posted By: Smokey Burgess
Date Posted: Jun 08 2009 at 9:43am
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A realtor member of the now-defunct HUD Consolidated Planning Committee for Middletown researched this matter. Property taxes are delinquent dating back to 2002. How could past and present City staff approve ANYONE for housing rehab loans and grants if their property taxes are delinquent? Please tell us Queen of Middletown?
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Posted By: Smokey Burgess
Date Posted: Jun 08 2009 at 12:05pm
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QUEEN JUDY BANS VIVIAN MOON FROM WORKING AT HISTORIC PIONEER CEMETERY
Wake up Queen Judy! Vivian Moon has done so much to preserve and protect the Historic Pioneer Cemetery! And now, I hear that you have BANNED HER from doing any work there? Tell us that this HEARTLESS NEWS is not true!
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 08 2009 at 1:06pm
| This would be a grave error in judgement if true. What say you Ms. Vivian? |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Jun 25 2009 at 10:15pm
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PacMan....I appreciate your response & honesty.
spiderjon....I haven't figure you out yet. But I know who you are, too. Please check out 15 N Clinton and you will realize my testiness / reluctance / privacy / questions / supportive downtownness / bitchy attitude. Whatever you "guys" want to call it. It seems me and Vivian are the only female posters on here. I know I have to redo the crooked graphics on the window. Yes, the landlord knows. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 26 2009 at 3:04am
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Madison Mom
I will make sure to stop by and check out your new business.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 26 2009 at 4:02am
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |