School Board Goes Too !!
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Schools
Forum Name: School Board
Forum Description: Discuss the board individually and as a group.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1571
Printed Date: Apr 26 2024 at 12:06am
Topic: School Board Goes Too !!
Posted By: Hermes
Subject: School Board Goes Too !!
Date Posted: Jul 14 2009 at 10:22pm
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$30,000 to search for a superintendent by an out of state agency ?!!! What is wrong with the people in this city ? I guess the school board will just add a levy request to the ballot to cover this expense. No big deal. The citizens of Middeltown are an unending supply of tax money. The economy is good and we can all afford it, not a problem.
When council goes in November I say the school board members go right along with them !!!!!!!!!!!! ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Replies:
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 6:25am
| I agree with you Hermes. The only member that seems to have gotten with the program is John Sauter and that has only been recently with the discipline issues connected with the schools. Katie McNeil has been a career member and has accomplished very little, refusing to tackle the serious issues IMO; Tyus, who always seems to find a seat on the board by appointment and not election, seems to be a non-contributor, as does Fiora. Andrew has, in the past, written scolding articles to the community that allows the citizens to know where she is coming from on the issues and demonstrates her elitist attitude. She is a liability, not an asset to this board. I see keeping Sauter, but cleaning out the rest. JMO |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 6:53am
| Fiora may surprise some of you. |
Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 8:57am
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Pacman,
Yes, I believe Mr. Fiora, Mr. Sauter and Ms. Andrews surprised us all last night. They stuck to their guns and insisted on a proactive search for a new Superintendent, rather than, a passive search by the Ohio School Board Associaiton. They were determined to find someone who would successfully raise grade scores and bring a new image to our school system. Even though the discussion got quite personal they held their decorum and showed their first priority was the future of our students. I believe history will show our school system changed dramatically for the better in this meeting and this was their finest hour.
Mr. Tyus, who disagreed with them, showed incredible leadership by insisting on respect for each other instead of personal attacks even though there was strong disagreement. It was his finest hour also. I learned a lot from him about leadership and decency in those moments. I salute their efforts in behalf of our students, school system and community.
Paul Nagy
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 9:09am
------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Paul Nagy wrote:Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 9:18am
| What other way is there Hermes run an ad in the Middletown Journal Help Wanted Section? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 11:57am
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Pac- Fiora better be a "surprizen'" soon as he ain't done too much since he's been a sittin' in that school board seat, has he? Can't think of anything he's offered of any significance as to direction or change. Could be wrong. Anybody?
As for the method used for the super search. What method is used by the successful districts on a new super selection? How do some districts manage to make a great selection on a competent, get things done,upgrade the schools type of super when others (Middletown) seem to choose losers each and every time? Do the school board's do all the legwork on the selection, do they do it by hiring a company to recruit the selections or do they do the "stick it in the help wanted ads" and hope for a bite? |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 11:59am
| What you see on TV is not always what it seems. Sometimes it is behind the scenes that the job is getting done. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 12:31pm
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What no outrage about this:
Board approves raise for administrators The school board approved a 2 percent raise in the base pay of administrators for the upcoming contract year, which begins July 1. Administrator salaries had been frozen for at least a year and possibly two years, Tyus said. He said discussion of the raise began earlier, but the board wanted to wait to hire a new treasurer to look at the numbers before making a decision. |
Posted By: accuro
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 12:41pm
| Tactic: Cut them off at the knees. Rescind tax levey and mill below what it is today. Board wasted $200 Kk on the ill advised land grab, and Andrews called it; "gotta spend money to make money." $30,000. wasted to have a firm find a replacement? Advice to school board: get an assistant super that wants to gain a name and reputation, stay 5 years, turn things around, instead of another "visionary" making excuses on a daily basis. |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 1:08pm
Well Pacman how do you think this company is going to search ? They will post ad's in newspapers,trade magazines,radio spots,etc,etc. They are not going to just say "Ally-oop" and a superintendent pops up. I'll bet if you watch the Journal there will be an ad in there.
What steps did the board take prior to hiring this company ? Is there no one inside the school system qualified to be a super ? Did the board even look ? Yes they placed Brown in the position temporarily,is he the only qualified person ? And what kind of deal did the board sign with this company ? We know it's $30,000 now,but what about later ? Is this a one time fee and they search until a super is found ?
You should know better Pacman,why do you trust the school board to make these decisions without public opinion ? You don't trust city council to do that and they are all in the same.
------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 1:11pm
Thank you accuro !!!!! Excellent statement !!!  ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 1:37pm
| I had the same feelings about Mr.Fiora after watching parts of meetings and following the press releases. However another friend of mine(very close to the situation) had the same comment as pacman, that Mr.Fiora was doing most of his activity quietly. Knowing Mr.Fiora somewhat, I would agree, as that approach being consistent with his personality. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 1:55pm
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Hermes I think the $30k will be well spent if a qualified turn around candidate is hired. Now personally I would not have hired a Temp Super. I would have given the Job to the next person below Price for the 3-5 months or so it may take to hire a new Super. This alone would have re-cooped the $30k.
The New Super is going to have his hands full with multi Levy's expiring in 2010 and it looks like another Bond issue is in the making for the High School and Junior High. Personally I think it is important to get the best candidate and to look than further Dayton and Cinci for that person.
http://www.carneysandoe.com/ - http://www.carneysandoe.com/
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 6:54pm
/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/middletownschoolnews/entries/2009/07/15/interim_superintendent_pay_rel.html - Interim superintendent pay releasedBy 	/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/middletownschoolnews/entries/2009/07/15/interim_superintendent_pay_rel.html#postcomment - Meagan Engle | Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 03:26 PM Middletown City Schools will pay incoming Interim Superintendent Norris Brown $4,700 biweekly while he is with the district. Brown has an open-ended contract, with the understanding he’ll be on board until a permanent superintendent is selected. Brown’s pay includes Medicare, retirement and worker’s compensation. |
Posted By: Rocky2023
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 9:03pm
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I just finished watching the school board meeting regarding the $30K decision to hire an outside firm. Way to go Katie, unfortunately, you are up against the majority (click). Just watch the body language; it is clear these individuals had a strategy. I am polite in my statement, John’s physical response when Katie challenged him: head went down, no eye contact, pen was in hand and he maintained this demeanor for the remainder of the meeting. I guess the best was to articulate the situation was “caught red handed”. I found it pathetic in his attempt to offer a compliment to Katie after they executed such tactics. I found it quite interesting to observe the unified response and how the three systemically delivered an alternating response to drive the final decision. Again, I became confused from time to time as I watched tonight thinking this was a city council meeting. I am so very disappointed with the board President, it is apparent his role in the community is a significant hindrance to effectively execute this school board responsibility. "Lame Duck Syndrome" in his leadership of this group. I agree, come the school board election, boot them out, except for Katie. They will ultimately break her down just like the city council did to Laura Williams. |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 10:38pm
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$9400 a month ?!! Even with my motherinlaw being a teacher I have to argue that. Again,wasted tax payer money !! What is Brown going to do in the next month or so to garner that kind of a check ? Now I can see paying half of that,but not 9400 a month. Time for a change on the school board. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 10:43pm
| Viet, They use the same system that Newwark must be using, thinking Price is quite a catch. |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 11:25pm
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$4,700 bi-weekly = $122,200 annually !
About the same as Price?
I know who won't get my votes!
Hmmm....What a bargain!
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 15 2009 at 11:33pm
| School Board Meeting that originally discussed Search Firms: http://blip.tv/file/2330354 - http://blip.tv/file/2330354 |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 16 2009 at 6:52am
| tomahawk35- As I said before, if Price is the man for Newark, it won't take long for the people to react to his methods. Dr. Stevie will think he's back in Middletown as Newark folks are the spittin' image of this town. He won't have anymore success there than he did here. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 16 2009 at 6:59am
| NorrisBrown already retired from one school district didn't he? So this guy is double dipping on the retirement scene now? Isn't this pay a little high for an INTERIM (as in fill-in, as in temporary, as in part timer)??? Think, as time goes by, that they'll give us one of those "he's done such a great job in the limited time he's been here, we'll just make him our new super" routine??? After all, old Norris was "in the Middie family" at one time and you all know how we feel about bringing back the retreads. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 16 2009 at 7:11am
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Rocky Katie was ticked off because she did not get her way and felt that OSBA was the better and cheaper way to go.
If you watch previous Board meetings you will see that John almost always has a pen in his hand and is constantly taking notes, shuffling papers, etc.
So what if Katie was offended because comeone went to the Chamber and voiced their opinion on a search firm and Bill came and expressed the Chambers thoughts, that is his job.
The bigger outrage to me is that they hired an interim Super at about $9500.00 a month when they could have gotten by with someone that is already working for the school system and if it takes 3-4 months to hire a new Super the Costs would have been 0, as it stands now a new Super is going to cost probably $60k+ between a search firm and a Temp. Actually more because come August 1, 2009 Price still gets his salary for upto one year while looking for a new job.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jul 16 2009 at 7:36am
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I'm more upset that the Board hired ANOTHER psychologist, and voted RAISES across-the-board for ADMINISTRATORS, but "regretfully HAD" to lay off seven librarians!!!
I guess they HAD to do it for the KIDS??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Rocky2023
Date Posted: Jul 16 2009 at 9:02am
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Yep, $ 9500 per month is quite pricy. Obvious, these board members are missing a critical cost-management skill. You know – cost vs benefit analysis. It would take all of 3 minutes to capture this in a business model and show this was not a good approach. Oh, that’s right, we have business entrepreneurs on the committee who know all this, they let us know that last night. Just how many of these individuals really perform at an executive level in a business. I think we already know the answer. Just how effective, proactive, aggressive and self challenging will a retired double dipping pinch hitter perform in the position. Sounds like a 9am-2pm position with golf scheduled after 3pm. I agree, not sure what these board members are thinking. Correct about Katie, she is a dominating individual. She was more effective and there was a better board member balance with the Board Members we had 3 yrs ago. Just look what that group executed, all new schools, and many other improvements. The momentum is gone! There is certainly an unfavorable dynamic with this group. Doesn't appear they will be effective to deliver the results we need to realize. We require a board that approaches the situation as if we were in a crisis, not passive with petty disagreements. You heard one member last night very clearly articulate she has a threshold for her time and commitment to the process. I understand, although, maybe she is not the right person for this responsibility at this critical time to represent our schools. Again, as I said earlier, there exist a common theme between the City Council and Middletown School Board.
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Posted By: accuro
Date Posted: Jul 16 2009 at 9:21am
| The common theme is realization people is that city council and the school board work part-time. They are like most people, they try to minimize their cycles, the inconvenience. They want to avoid headaches, time spent on making decisions, evaluating alternatives. Why do you think the council grabbed the Kettering city manager to plug and play in the 'interim' position before he found his friend a job now city manager? Why do you think the Board drops $122,000. or 9500/monthly on a double dipper? Because its the easy way out, doesn't take much time, can reduce cycle time; "hey, I don't get paid for this anyway, or I get $5,000.00 annually on council, and make .60/cents and hr. The pts made are logical and prudent, but council and the Board doesn't operate that way. Hell, the city has dropped how much- $50Kk plus with consultancies helping brand property out by the interstate! There's no need for branding, Neyer is running that, the city has been, and always will be, a follower. So there's $50Kk wasted, that could be used to have a pool open. That's the real issue: these people want the short cut, to reduce their cycles. So, lets drop nearly $10Kk monthly, to hire a former super. Really a waste and so much overhead in state school systems gone amuck, its nauseating to me, about the only entity in the country that hasn't gotten downsized and reengineered. That, and of course, city hall. And to hear councuil members suggest: city has cut to the bone! How clueless these leaders are, and we don't hold them accountable. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 16 2009 at 10:13am
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Paying an interim super the same rate as Price was making is a terrible action, only setting the stage for a much higher-priced new super from the search firm. Maybe Mr.Triick and his chamber should pony up some of the search costs, since they have championed the concept.
The interim pay rate + the search costs + the $300,000+ spent on a very ill-advised andover-extended failed land grab + 2% increases within the system surely indicated an educational system flush with $$ and in no need of any future levy increases down the road. Actually these expenditures were probably made to mandate unrgency/emergency tax increases in late 2010/2011.
Vote NO on anything and everything down the road.
Vote against every current office-holder in every aspect of city government.
When given the option of voting for multiple candidates to fill multiple seats, ONLY vote for the NEW names, to give them the best chance. If we elect them and they don't work out, then we replace them asap.
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Posted By: Rocky2023
Date Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 12:02am
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Your right, here comes an emergency tax levy. I can see it now. In 2011, the schools will be in such a financial dilemma that they will announce to cut out the bussing, eliminate sports - especially football, toss out several teachers - heck, the icing on the cake is a few sacrificial lambs. That's the ticket to reach the tender hearted voters and those parents that both work. How’s my child going to get to school ? The school board executive session will create their 2011 mission statement - "Intimidation to financialization" Its the same approach every time. We will begin to see the $200 painted plywood signs around town telling voters to vote "YES" for issue "#4. Once the issue is passed, back to work to abuse the authority, mis-direct funding and over spend. WOW, the pressure is off for 2-3 years ! What the heck, why not follow Madison School Boards lead and take a trip to Have you ever seen the movie "Ground Hog Day" ? |
Posted By: kasson
Date Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 1:24am
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Agree 100% with Mr. Nagy. FYI- Newark used OSBA for their super search. Middletown BOE has used OSBA for the last several super searches. I agree it's time for a change, even if the cost is more. Am outraged at the 2% pay raise for administrators. I guess they don't want renewal levies to pass. Don't agree with the large pay for Norris Brown either.
The point I am at disagreement with is concerning the Frnaklin land. Let me give you an example...you put up money to start a new business and turn all the profits over to me. Would you do it? That is what is happening with the area in question. Middletown is putting up the money to develop the area, but any real estate tax increases are going to Franklin schools. I believe the money should follow who did the investing. We had our best chance in the Ohio Supreme Court to argue this and this is when the BOE decides to drop it.
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Posted By: kasson
Date Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 1:41am
| However, imo, even with the best new super in the country it will be impossible to turn things around to the degree most of us wish until the city lowers section 8 dramatically. It is too huge of a drag on the schools to overcome. It's just like in any manufacturing business, the quality of the finished product is directly the result of the raw materials put in. With 70% free and reduced lunch kids your scores aren't going to be even close with any districts in Butler or Warrren counties. It's just a fact. |
Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 8:26am
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Kasson,
"Agree 100% with Mr. Nagy. FYI- Newark used OSBA for their super search. Middletown BOE has used OSBA for the last several super searches. I agree it's time for a change, even if the cost is more. Am outraged at the 2% pay raise for administrators. I guess they don't want renewal levies to pass. Don't agree with the large pay for Norris Brown either."
I concur with your assessment here. While I supported the independent, proactive search for a new Superintendent, I am also outraged by the pay raise for administrators, which they should be cutting back on while they support our teachers more. Also, I am outraged by the elitist attitude in giving the temporary Superintendent such an outrageous salary during these hard economic times. Where is the stewardship? This is a serious smack in the face to all who are attempting to support and move our school system forward.
Thanks for your post.
Paul Nagy
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Posted By: accuro
Date Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 8:47am
| kasson: Middletown had no legal challenge to Franklin in the Ohio Supreme Court. It would have continued a pattern of wasteful expenditures. As for the development costs, that has no impact upon Franklin's right to the tax benefits. The Ohio Supreme Ct would not have overturned the decision, just as anyone who knows the law and read the statutes (and precendant) knew the appeal would fail, except Ms. Andrews and Co. apparently. The building of the schools was simply "build it, they will come." They forgot you have to have solid scores before "they come" in open enrollment. MCSD finally fell on its sword, all the false rhetoric about "excellence" never materialized, and it won't. |
Posted By: Rocky2023
Date Posted: Jul 17 2009 at 9:51pm
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How bold it was to approve a 2% pay raise for administrators. Just consider the total disregard these individuals have for the community. AK is taking pay cuts, my business did not give increases and eliminated all bonuses, and have let go 3000 employees, eliminate medical benefits for spouses and now discussing the same as AK is considering. Yet, here in
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Posted By: kasson
Date Posted: Jul 19 2009 at 12:39am
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Looks as if Price was passed over for the Newark super. Also, the Newark Advocate published the preliminary OAT results for Middletown. Leave it to an out of town paper to beat the Middletown Journal to local news!!!
Last Mon. night's board meeting Fiora asked Dr. Betsy Carter about our preliminary test results. She gave him the run around and never answered his question saying he'd hav e to wait for the final ones in late Aug. or Sept. Here they are published in the Newark paper! Also, the next day (Tues. night) Price talked about the preliminary OAT scores to the Newark audience. They get more info than we do.
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