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Train a Comin' ?

Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: Community Revitalization
Forum Description: Middletown Community Revitalization News
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2327
Printed Date: Aug 12 2022 at 5:15pm


Topic: Train a Comin' ?
Posted By: 409
Subject: Train a Comin' ?
Date Posted: Nov 16 2009 at 5:08pm
Wonder what the city knows that we aren't privy to?
Has anyone noticed the Shamrock station at the corner of Central & Charles is vacated, pumps are gone, and the tanks have been drained? Looks like an extension for the Train Depot!
Rumor also has it that Jack's Rec Center is the next to fall.
Stimulus (Whatever) money at work?  Interesting!



Replies:
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 12:29am
The Shamrock has shut down several times this year for some reason. If the city thinks that new train is coming to the downtown area they better do more research. Everything I've seen and heard is the train will follow I-75 and if,if,it stops in Middeltown it will be on the east side next to I-75. There is no guarantee the new train will even stop here,so present city administrators are probably jumping the gun.

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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: rngrmed
Date Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 12:34am

A train on the east side of 75 would make it awful hard to sell all those nice new houses over there wouldn't it?



Posted By: wannaknow
Date Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 6:04am
Mutual suppliers told me that Jack's Rec Center is closing.


Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 7:11am
It is my understanding that they were to use existing tracks for this rail system.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 7:23am
Perhaps a question for tonights Citizen Comments portion of the Council meeting? We already know we won't get any answers but is still fun to see the stonewall look on their faces as they are asked point blank about their plans. Perhaps Ms. Gilleland can "fill in the blanks for us" on the plan if no one on Council will tell us (due, of course, to not being set up at this time to answer questions) Note to the Mayor- just how long does it take to "get set up to answer questions"-Lawrence?   


Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 8:39am
I drove down there this morning and got a couple pictures, I do agree that the station has closed in the past only to reopen. But It doesn't look like that will be happening this time around.










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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 10:54am
Does the Finkelman Group own this property also?


Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 11:00am
Vivian....Duncan Oil owns it.
             But have a feeling the city will soon own it!


Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Nov 17 2009 at 12:46pm
It will be costly to remove the gas station.  There is a lot of EPA work to be done.  Underground tanks removed and all.  I hope the city does not have to pay for this.


Posted By: gemneye70
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 7:49am
I hadn't heard a train might follow I-75...are there articles out there discussing this option?


Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 9:50am
gemneye - just do a search on the high speed rail for further info.
 
Plus there is absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that the rail will even take the Cincinnati to Dayton route. It could go from Cincy up I-71 to Columbus then on to Cleveland if thats the route they choose. Actually that makes more sense than coming through Middeltown. I fail to understand the excitement of something that has not even materialized yet. This country as a whole is in deep doo-doo. Obama is throwing money like it grows on trees. The estimated cost for a rail in Ohio is over $500 million ! I guess maybe the Chinese could pay to have it built. So don't go getting all excited like our city politicians over something that is non-existent.


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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 10:40am
I agree with Hermes - don't get excited over anything yet.  If you were a business man and had to choose the route - most would take it up 71 because you would run past Kings Island - Great Wolf Lodge and all that. 


Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 11:06am
I believe these are two different initatives - one is for light rail (commuter) and one is for passenger rail.


Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 12:22pm
I was told that the Station got robbed too much and Duncan just threw in the towel.


Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 1:00pm
Watch Duncan rise from the ashes nearby! Wink


Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by 409 409 wrote:

Watch Duncan rise from the ashes nearby! Wink
 
You know, this was the plan several years ago.  The city had been working with Duncan Oil to relocate and rebuild their station.  They were slated to redevelop the old Office Outfitters property.  This required two things:
 
1.) Al's Big Muffler to relocate elsewhere (a plan was in the works)
2.) Duncan to work out a deal with Finkleman family on a small parcel of land on Charles street near the old Office Outfitters building
 
The end result was going to be a new, larger and modern station, redeveloped block and the old station was to come down.  The Finkleman family was to then acquire the old property (I believe in exchange for the strip of land on Charles) and turn it into green space with a new fountain, just as it had originally been.  This was going to be in memory/dedication to the family. 
 
Not sure what ended up happening with that deal though. 


Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 2:51pm

I believe that deal was pretty much finalized until  Duncan ran into financial trouble.

Duncan was then unable or un-willing to follow through on the overall plan to re-develop the area into a service station/convenience store location. The was also squabbling over the worth of the small connecting land parcel when Mr.F wanted more $$$. Now that he is gone and city admin is allegedly working closely with the new management of the Finkleman group.
 
If this area DOES become a rail stop, the old Office Outfitter's/Alber's(remember then?) location could be serious property, though not exactly located in a high0rent upscale area. You would still have to address the surrounding neighborhood and Central Ave.situation.
 
I can't see the Whistle Stop area as being large enough to support a new rail station, particularly squeezed between Central Ave.and Manchester Ave(north/south) and University.Charles(east/west). . Maybe the other former train stop north would be a better location IF the dead manufacturing(brownfield to be) space was eliminated, opening up a much-cleaner, open situation.
 
jmo


Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 3:43pm
I just seen Schiavone,Scott-Jones,Becker and Gilleland marching toward the train depot holding hands and singing that Johnny Cash song " ♪ I hear that train a coming,it's coming around the bend ♫"  LOL 

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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by Hermes Hermes wrote:

I just seen Schiavone,Scott-Jones,Becker and Gilleland marching toward the train depot holding hands and singing that Johnny Cash song " ♪ I hear that train a coming,it's coming around the bend ♫"  LOL 
 
 
Hermes, we all know this is not true, you would have had to put clothes on and leave the house to see that happen.  Big%20smile


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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 4:02pm
Randy - The singing woke me up ! Your right,I'm not putting clothes on for anybody or anything !!  LOL
 
I'm not about to leave the house,well unless of course I'm wearing my aluminum foil hat to keep the government from reading my thoughts. And those damn pesky red light cameras,another reason I won't leave the house. Wacko


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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by wasteful wasteful wrote:

It is my understanding that they were to use existing tracks for this rail system.
If you are speaking of a "light rail" system using these same tracks, it is very impractical and therefore highly improbable.
 
Most people who have never been involved with "people-moving systems" (this includes nearly everyone at City Hall) don't realize that "light rail" has NOTHING to do with the weight of the rails.  Some "light rail" systems use no steel rails at all but use other types of "guideways".
 
Just one more reason why City Hall deserves to be criticized for appointing know-it-all know-nothings as delegates to organizations such as OKI, just so they can jazz up their resumes.  In their ignorance, they promote stupid ideas, and try to foist them off on the public, ultimately doing nothing but wasting public funds and betraying the public trust.


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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 4:09pm

The foil hat does not work any more. The Government is wise to that trick. Now a days you have to buy a full foil suit, and your in luck cause we just happen to sell them.  Big%20smile



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Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 4:14pm

No Mike I am talking about the Famous 3 C and  1 M (maybe) Passenger Train, that has the city a buzz with ideas of grandeur dancing in their heads.



Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by randy randy wrote:

The foil hat does not work any more. The Government is wise to that trick. Now a days you have to buy a full foil suit, and your in luck cause we just happen to sell them.  Big%20smile

 
How much for a full suit ? Can I get one for Vet too ? (as long as the price is right) LOL


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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 4:28pm
The only thing we have for Vet is big Bengal suit, yours I will have to look into, you want the extra protection in yours right?

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Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 27 2009 at 11:00am
Look for City Council to discuss the Duncan Oil project at their meeting on Dec. 1


Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 27 2009 at 11:19am
So Duncan is going to redevelop the parcels of property on the south side of Central from the RR tracks to Grimes, including the the strip center that houses Jacks and the Revelos building.  City will purchase property and turn it over to Duncan.  In exchange, Duncan will tear down structures and turn over the property they own around the train station (including the old Office Outfitters building) to the city after it is demolished.  


Posted By: insider
Date Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 7:58am
Seems like swohio75 is an insider at city hall.


Posted By: Mr. Dave
Date Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 8:58am
Seems like insider is trying to figure out who SWOhio75 is, With a name like insider one might think you are the city worker. Are you upset that SW might be leaking info you'd rather not see leaked?


Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 9:05am
Originally posted by swohio75 swohio75 wrote:

So Duncan is going to redevelop the parcels of property on the south side of Central from the RR tracks to Grimes, including the the strip center that houses Jacks and the Revelos building.  City will purchase property and turn it over to Duncan.  In exchange, Duncan will tear down structures and turn over the property they own around the train station (including the old Office Outfitters building) to the city after it is demolished.  
Roger that! This is what I was refering to in earlier posts.


Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 11:01am
Originally posted by insider insider wrote:

Seems like swohio75 is an insider at city hall.

I am hardly an insider, trust me on that one. Everything I said is a matter of public record. You just need to know where to look. It's on the City Council agenda this week, and the development plan is part of the Workbook available on the City's Web site. Use Butler County Property Records to determine which parcels are included.



Posted By: SupportMiddletown
Date Posted: Nov 29 2009 at 1:16am
I wonder why the Revlos building needs to be included. You would expect the strip center to provide a large enough space for the planned development. I'm all for removing the strip center, current gas station, and offiice outfitters building, but I don't think demolishing the historic Revlos building is necessary.
 


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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 29 2009 at 7:58am

Well it seems the “Manchester Plan” is moving right along.
Now they just need to move the back lot of Ted’s Rental and they can demo all the old housing down
Manchester Ave.
to “Their New Downtown Core”.
Then they will only need their I-75 Manchester Exit to connect it all together.
While I’m all for cleaning up the properties around the train tracks I do not believe that the new train and station will have an impact on the economy of
Middletown
.  I’m afraid we are into another “build it and they will come” project.



Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 29 2009 at 9:25am
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

I’m afraid we are into another “build it and they will come” project.


But Middletown is not the only community rushing to this. Look at Springfield.

Granted, it's a risk. But I guarantee you folks here would be screaming that the city had no vision ten years from now if we did not get the station and Hamilton did and it was a major success.



Posted By: nezitiC nwotelddiM
Date Posted: Nov 29 2009 at 11:52am
I was in the Revelos Building last year.  It was in bad shape.  I would estimate maybe 100,000 + would be needed to fix that place up.  I doubt any developer has that kind of money  to invest in a failing town.  


Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Nov 29 2009 at 12:50pm
I guess I'm an old fuddy when it comes to this train deal,I don't get the excitement about something that is non-existent. Final plans and conclusions have not even been drawn up by anyone yet,but yet here you have towns and cities ready to build muti-million dollar train stations for a ghost train !! And what happens when Hamilton,Middeltown and Dayton all build their ghost train stations and then the politicians decide the train will follow I-71 ? What then ?
 
Stupid is as stupid does.


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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Nov 29 2009 at 1:20pm
What happens Hermes is Middletown City Hall and Council, go oooppppps we screwed up again, so sorry we wasted more of your money and time.


Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Nov 29 2009 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by wasteful wasteful wrote:

What happens Hermes is Middletown City Hall and Council, go oooppppps we screwed up again, so sorry we wasted more of your money and time.
 
Yeah it's only tax payer money,no big deal,if they need more they know where to get it. Besides,all that money coming from DC is all FREE !! They grow it on tree's in DC and then just pass it out ! LOL


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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Nov 29 2009 at 5:43pm
I heard today that Jacks pool hall closes tomorrow.

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Posted By: SupportMiddletown
Date Posted: Nov 29 2009 at 6:33pm
Hermes, there is no serious discussion about routing the line up 71 between Cincinnati and Columbus. That may have happened a long time ago, but the current plan is to connect via Dayton. This is the final plan that was submitted to the federal government for stimulus funding.

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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 9:06am
With Hamilton being the home of Butler County offices and a larger city than Mddletown, would this train by-pass Hamilton for Middletown? Is this local stop a sure thing?
 
Seems like connecting County govt. and state govt. in Columbus would be a more natural/functional route. Would this train stop in both Hamilton and Middletown?


Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 10:50am
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

With Hamilton being the home of Butler County offices and a larger city than Mddletown, would this train by-pass Hamilton for Middletown? Is this local stop a sure thing?
 
Because it is more of a direct route.  If you look at the proposed route, it would have to "jag" a bit to the west to stop in Hamilton.


Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 11:40am
Ok the train is coming ! A new deal will be made to acquire the Shamrock station in order to do what ? Build a new train station ? Sorry about the negativity folks but I see a gigantic blunder coming. I wish I could be more positive but I've seen to much stupidity coming out of the city building. I'll leave it alone and walk away, I wish the best for everyone who thinks Middeltown will boom by getting the train stop and the multi-million dollar bike path. Good luck !
 
"And thats all I got to say about that"  Sleepy


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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 3:18pm

I'll reiterate what I said in another post on this topic:

Folks, I hate to burst your bubble, but it has never been part of the plan to build a new train station.  All documents I've read related to the Ohio Hub and 3C Line indicate using EXISTING stations.  And that includes the existing Middletown station.  Now, I have no doubt that the city will need to acquire the historic train station from the Finkleman family, and likely at a pretty penny.  But there is not going to be a new train station.
 
You can view a conceptual plan for the Middletown Station on page 5 of the following document:
 
http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/ed/dsp/dsp_chapter3.pdf - http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/ed/dsp/dsp_chapter3.pdf


Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

With Hamilton being the home of Butler County offices and a larger city than Mddletown, would this train by-pass Hamilton for Middletown? Is this local stop a sure thing?
 
Middletown also has one other thing that Hamilton does not.  An established, functional and funded mass transportation system in the city that can easily be modified to accomodate rail passenger traffic. 
 


Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 4:32pm
true swohio--however if you take the local bus, your destination would be? Atrium? MU-M?
Those headed to these locations might prefer a taxi, and we aren't that strong in that area.
Or they would have a pre-arranged pick-up.
We still need a few destinations and reasons to get off of the train.
 


Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by swohio75 swohio75 wrote:

I'll reiterate what I said in another post on this topic:

Folks, I hate to burst your bubble, but it has never been part of the plan to build a new train station.  All documents I've read related to the Ohio Hub and 3C Line indicate using EXISTING stations.  And that includes the existing Middletown station.  Now, I have no doubt that the city will need to acquire the historic train station from the Finkleman family, and likely at a pretty penny.  But there is not going to be a new train station.
 
You can view a conceptual plan for the Middletown Station on page 5 of the following document:
 
http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/ed/dsp/dsp_chapter3.pdf - http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/ed/dsp/dsp_chapter3.pdf
 
 
I lied I can't stay away from the topic,sorry. swohio do you really believe what your saying ? If the city has no plans to build a new station (and yes I read the flyer) then why the land deal with Standard Oil ? Can't the depot operate with the gas station in it's present location ? Plus in order to meet safety standards and regulations a whole lot of work will have to be done to the present depot if it stays. Who's kidding who here ? And like everyone says, what is this train going to do for the city ? Everything that has been built new is on the east side of town, anything coming to town will no doubt want to locate over there. There is nothing in Middletown that would attract anyone ! If you ride the train into Middeltown and need to go to a business or the hospital then you have to find a way to get there because the train just dumped you 5 miles from your destination and that my friend is stupidity.
 
But you know what the dumbest thing is about the train & street cars ? 40-60 years ago everyone had them and got rid of them !!! Unlike Europe who has maintained trains & streetcars for over 100 years, we the people of the CAPITALISTIC USA decided we didn't need them due to automobiles !!!!!
 
I guess the next big thing Middeltown will want is to bring back the streetcars. Wacko


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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: John Beagle
Date Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 6:17pm
Sticking everyone on Trains is exactly what the terrorists want. They love it when lots of people are forced into small places where they can do the most harm.




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Middletown USA

News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio.


Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by John Beagle John Beagle wrote:

Sticking everyone on Trains is exactly what the terrorists want. They love it when lots of people are forced into small places where they can do the most harm.


 
Where did that come from John ? Shocked ↑↑↑↑↑


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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Dec 01 2009 at 5:28am
I bet if we requested that each council member invest $100,000 of their own money in this new rail deal here in Middletown when they vote tonight we would get a different outcome to this vote….however they don’t mind gambling with our tax money.


Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Dec 01 2009 at 7:07am
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

I bet if we requested that each council member invest $100,000 of their own money in this new rail deal here in Middletown when they vote tonight we would get a different outcome to this vote….however they don’t mind gambling with our tax money.
 
Vivian - Thats not tax money they are using, the money the city gets grows on a tree in DC just down from the street from the capital. Thats all free money, they prune that tree several times a year and what they prune off they pass out to places like Middletown. Yes sir-ree ! Free money from the DC money tree !! Big%20smile


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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Dec 01 2009 at 7:42am
Hermes
What funds are going to be used to purchase all this land swap deal?
What funds are going to be used to purchase Denny Lumber, Insurance Company and Diver’s to complete this new rail vision.
Where will these bussinesses locate?


Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Dec 01 2009 at 8:31am
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

Hermes
What funds are going to be used to purchase all this land swap deal?
What funds are going to be used to purchase Denny Lumber, Insurance Company and Diver’s to complete this new rail vision.
Where will these bussinesses locate?
 
I don't think Denny & Diver will be affected by this, I thought the land was BETWEEN Central & First and down to Grimes ? Denny & Diver are all on the south side of First Avenue. I'm assuming the money will either come from the general fund or the feds in a form of a grant or something.


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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!


Posted By: John Beagle
Date Posted: Dec 01 2009 at 1:09pm
Mass transit is a way to socialize a population. Socialist societies are seen as weak by terrorists. A recent event that comes to mind is that nice little socialist country, Spain and their 2004 Madrid Training Bombings killing 191 people and wounding 1,800.

During peak Madrid AM rush hour on Thursday, March 11, 2004, ten explosions occurred aboard four commuter trains. It was later reported that thirteen improvised explosive devices (IEDs) had been placed on the trains.

Prosecutor Olga Sánchez asserted that the bombings happened 911 days after 9/11 due to the "highly symbolic and qabbalistic charge for local al-Qaida groups.

Source: http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/factor/cabalistico/eleccion/fecha/matanza/trenes/elpepiesp/20050310elpepinac_2/Tes/ - Un factor "cabalístico" en la elección de la fecha de la matanza en los trenes, "El País", 2005 March 10th (Spanish)

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Middletown USA

News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio.


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Dec 01 2009 at 2:12pm

Hermes
The New Five Year Plan will close off
First Ave
at the tracks and the current businesses are gone from the cemetery to the tracks.



Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Dec 01 2009 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by John Beagle John Beagle wrote:

Mass transit is a way to socialize a population. Socialist societies are seen as weak by terrorists. A recent event that comes to mind is that nice little socialist country, Spain and their 2004 Madrid Training Bombings killing 191 people and wounding 1,800.

During peak Madrid AM rush hour on Thursday, March 11, 2004, ten explosions occurred aboard four commuter trains. It was later reported that thirteen improvised explosive devices (IEDs) had been placed on the trains.

Prosecutor Olga Sánchez asserted that the bombings happened 911 days after 9/11 due to the "highly symbolic and qabbalistic charge for local al-Qaida groups.

Source: http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/factor/cabalistico/eleccion/fecha/matanza/trenes/elpepiesp/20050310elpepinac_2/Tes/ - Un factor "cabalístico" en la elección de la fecha de la matanza en los trenes, "El País", 2005 March 10th (Spanish)



Give us a break John. Mass Transit is a something that just comes with Population Concentrations. It is not some Geo-Political Evil. Geeez....


Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Dec 01 2009 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

Hermes
The New Five Year Plan will close off
First Ave
at the tracks and the current businesses are gone from the cemetery to the tracks.

 
I was unaware of that ! Are these people stupid or what ?!!! What is the purpose of closing First Avenue ?? That is going to make it very hard on those of us who live west of the tracks. ShockedAngry


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