AIN'T NO WAY!!!!!!!!
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Printed Date: Apr 29 2024 at 5:51am
Topic: AIN'T NO WAY!!!!!!!!
Posted By: VietVet
Subject: AIN'T NO WAY!!!!!!!!
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 7:01am
The Municipal Court in Middletown has hired Schiavone to do some "projects" like develop a plan for when the frikkin' power goes out and, no doubt, when the toilets don't flush in the restrooms. WHAT??????? Russy Carolus says the city didn't hire him--- that he falls under the court jurisdiction. Then why did the Council develop an ordinance creating this special job for Schiavone? This hiring would not have happened if the council had not created the position. If it doesn't involve the city, as Carolus says, why is Council getting involved? Why is he being hired when his past record in Mason and Hamilton, in the court system, has led to two terminations for poor performance/goofing off on the job related issues? He has been a liability on his past jobs- why take the chance? He is being held to 35 hours per week at a $24.66/hour pay rate to keep him part time. Is Schiavone even qualified for this job? Was the job position bid out or was it "specially created", given to him by his council cronies? This has got to stop people. This council behavior only opens the division even more between council and the residents. Just adds to the "no trust" label given to our city government.  This reeks of back room politics. Enough is enough! Kick those who approved this off council- NOW! A recall, as soon as law will allow, is in order here for those who agreed to this. 
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Replies:
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 8:59am
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Wow--did anyone do a backround check on this individual?
Might uncover a very ?able work ethic and honesty issues.
Will his work time be monitored, and by whom?
Mr.Rossi?
So--the court has this much extra $$ in a budget crisis, while the city lays off 7(with 5 weeks severance INSTEAD of simply working these employees 5 more weeks!).
Did Dave Schiavone vote to create this position during his last Council meeting, then accept this position as soon as his Council term expire?
I wonder if there were any other applicants or interviews for the position?
Council, the court system and Admin all look bad on this one, and obviously they aren't in need of $$.
Please remember this one when the city asks for additional tax revenue.
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Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 9:08am
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I am looking into this as we speak. Have a few emails out there right now, waiting for a responses. I got a call from a city official this morning on this subject and there were not happy. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 9:20am
I'm going back to sleep. I am obviously dreaming and this is part of a terrible nightmare. Later, I will awaken, fully refreshed and feeling fine.  ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Nelson R. Self
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 10:15am
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Josh & A.J. --
The image of Middletown's government gets another black eye on this one. I wish you both well as City Council members. You both have what it takes to make our government transparent and accountable.
Thank you!
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Posted By: A.J. Smith
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 10:28am
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Folks, I apologize for the way this has all happened. When this ordinance was put forth, I personally was not privy to the info that David Schiavone was going to get the job, or even be considered for that matter. Had I known, I would have voted the emergency down and hoped for it to be tabled it for two weeks. I'm very frustrated about this and I understand everyone's frustration. Once again, my deepest apologies. |
Posted By: Jlaubach
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 10:45am
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Council was not privy to the hiring of Mr. Schiavone. I am extremely upset over the matter and how it reflects on our city government as awhole. There are questions to be answered and I intend to find them. Mr. Self. since you cannot attend the meetings, I will be glad to bring up the issues you have outlined. |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 10:51am
| I am not surprised you did not know this AJ, but I guarentee some of your counter parts there did. This is really a shame and about as low as you can get. I don't wish any bad on Schiavone - but this is not right. Was this a posted position that anyone could apply for? If so was it posted in December prior to his leaving counsel? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 11:05am
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City Leaders and Councilmembers........How was this whole scenario presented to Council for ordinance adoption? Who were the originators of the Council proposal for ordinance adoption? What was the reason to justify this special event to occur? IE- that ONLY Schiavone be permitted to assume this special job opening? Who made the decision that Schiavone was qualified to do this job? Was his past questionable work record considered before he was offered the job? Who, in the Municipal Court, approved his hiring? Was anyone else interviewed for this position or was it a done deal? Seems awfully convenient that as soon as Schiavone vacates the Council seat, he is set up with a decent paying job within the Municipal Court building, perhaps doing a job that he is not qualified to do. Why was there no hesitation to investigate the situation and another rubber stamp issued on this? SOME Councilpeople just say yes to anything and everything that comes down the path, don't they?
Do you city leaders know how bad this looks to the citizens? It reeks of impropriety, convenience and favoritism. Not a team building/favorable communication exercise with the general public folks! You've opened up another scandal saga on this one.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 11:30am
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Another glaring example of the improper usage of emergency lwgislation.
So--what exactly was the emergency here?
Every election campaign, Council wannabes talk about how they will end the mis-use of emergency legislation, however once elected, none ever follow through on that campaign promise.
Mr.Laubaugh and Mr.Smith were both very vocal about this concern.
What happened guys?
So--we have retained Ms.Ford as a new member of the Board of Health, and Mr.Schiavone in this new position.
Any thoughts on where/how Mr.Marconi will re-surface?
Council/Admin communications liason or spokesperson?
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Posted By: Smartman
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 11:31am
Here we go again Vet!! Same ole same ole
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Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 12:15pm
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Taken from the Middletown Journal
Finance Director Russ Carolus said Schiavone stands to make around $5,000 for working several 35-hour weeks. The approved position pays around $24.66 per hour.
Carolus said the city typically tries to keep all part-time employees below the 35-hour threshold to ensure nobody will claim the position is actually full-time. The city had “absolutely no say” in Schiavone’s hiring, Carolus said, as the municipal court appoints and fires its own people without city input. “They’re not part of civil service, so we have no ability to say ‘no’ or ‘yes’ or anything like that,” Carolus said. I am confussed: I the city had no say in the matter, why were they asked to pass an ordinance creating the position of Special projects Manager? Someone please explain that to me.------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Jlaubach
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 12:24pm
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SJ, Others,
No excuses. I am furious. Council gave the Staff Report credit for what it said ( and this is that the position was needed to meet Ohio surpreme court Standards while having no financial impact. The money was already in the budget for 2010) Why Mr. Schiavone was hired is beyond me (Council did not hire David. The court side did after we ok'd the temp postion. Had I and at least two of the other council members known this, there is no way this would have passed.) I have many questions as well.
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Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 12:32pm
| Can we also find out why the journal took off the comments section on this article? |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 12:54pm
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As I stated in a previous posting here when I asked about this position I said something to the fact about a "flunky getting the job" and apparently I was 100% correct. People this is more of the same, the good ole boy syndrome. I have no doubt that AJ & Josh were in the dark about this back room deal because if they had knowledge of it I believe they would have fought this tooth and nail.
Again I questioned the reason for the emergency declaration and now we know why. Landen pushed it as fast as possible before anyone could ask questions. I'm sure you all would agree with me when I say it's time or past time to vacate several positions in city hall once and for all. Demand a new law director and new city manager. Like Vet said this crap has to stop and stop now !! ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Nelson R. Self
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 12:57pm
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Thank you Joshua! It's been nearly one year since I "RESIGNED??" my position as Community Development Administrator thanks to the considerable "encouragement" of Ginger Smith and Miss Judy. And, the last 18 months of my life have included some of the darkest emotional moments that anyone of sound mind would care to experience. Thanks to the help of my doctors, family and friends I'm trying to rebuild my life.
I actively campaingned for you Joshua and still believe that you're that "breath of fresh air" that our City Council so badly needs. You may be young age wise but, you display much wisdom, common sense and a commitment to transparent/accountable government.
My only advice is to keep an "eye out." Your predecessor was seeking answers to some of the HUD mess before certain senior City staff, a couple of key City Council members, and some politically influential power brokers in the community intervened. Tony told me that last March that he'd no longer be able to ask questions or seek answers to most of the "swept unde the rug" matters involving HUD. He stated that the politically powerful were after him and were supporting you or other potential candidates for the Ward 3 City Council seat.
Keep an eye out, Joshua. I have also told A.J. the same thing. I know of what I speak.
Thank you again Josh! I, too, believe in a constitutional republic and empowering all citizens!
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Posted By: A.J. Smith
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 1:09pm
Sir, here is the information that we had to make our decision. Now that there is a huge uproar in the community, as it should, more information has surfaced that we should have known before we voted on this ordinance. I assure you that I am just as upset as you about this. Once again, I apologize to all of you, and this is something that we're going to try and make right the best we can. file:///C:%5CUsers%5CTJ%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_editdata.mso - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CTJ%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CTJ%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml - S T A F F R E P O R Tfile:///C:%5CUsers%5CTJ%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml - For the Business Meeting of January 5, 2010 file:///C:%5CUsers%5CTJ%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml -
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CTJ%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml -
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CTJ%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml - TO: Judy Gilleland, City Manager
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CTJ%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml - FROM: Louis A. Rossi,
Director of Court Services file:///C:%5CUsers%5CTJ%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml -
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CTJ%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml - |
VietVet wrote:Posted By: Nelson R. Self
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 1:23pm
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A.J. -
I also have faith that you and Josh will be competent, fair-minded City Council members.
By the way, I can remember two former and one current City Council members telling me that I wouldn't be forced out of my former job in July 2008 at luncheon meeting on Roosevelt Boulevard. Of course, those turned out to be empty promises..
This hiring deal sends another bad impression about what goes on in Middletown. And, why is the City Council always asked to approve legislation on an EMERGENCY basis? Maybe certain senior City staff should start having periodic DIALOGUE with the citizenry of Middletown?
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 1:59pm
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OK AJ and Josh. You and others adopted an ordinance proposed for emergency legislation by Landen, for the purpose of satisfying a Special Projects Manager to the Courts. You made this decision based on the info. provided from Landen in this post. Next thing everyone notices is that Schiavone is hired to fill the position without Council's knowledge. (Bet some on Council knew it was Schiavone before the hiring took place)
Question: Now that we know it is Schiavone who got a golden parachute after his stint on Council, and we know what kind of working background Schiavone has (ie- a supervisor in the court system, both in Mason and in Hamilton and, more recently, a real estate agent) and we know that he was dismissed from BOTH supervisor positions for performance issues/ goofing off on the job- (this is documented in previous Journal stories)--- who made the decision to hire him based on his qualifications/abilities to write court manuals on Emergency Preparedness, Continuity of Operations, Implementation of a Court Security Policy/ Procedures Manual, and what in his past working experience, gives him sole candidacy for this job over others? Does he really have the experience from his previous jobs to write this documentation? Perhaps a meeting with Rossi for an explanation on qualifications?????? Why did Rossi hire him with so much baggage, anyway? Hmmm. A suggestion- in the future, when Landen asks for emergency legislation, instead of MOST OF COUNCIL, sitting there like a bump on a log, start asking why the emergency is needed, ask specifics about the necessity of the legislation, ask in-depth about the SPECIFICS AND INTENT of the legislation and ask who is currently being considered for the position. If a name like Schiavone pops up, bells and whistles should be going off and an immediate reluctance on your part should occur. Would also suggest that a clause be included to recind your decision to protect and correct any back room antics like this from happening and to lessen the hassle of future explanations. |
Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 2:40pm
I think its time for ole Les and Ms Judy to pack there bags and move out of there postion's they hold. After they are gone then start working on Jimbob,and Billyboy. No wonder no bussiness wants to come to Middletucky we have a few clowns in office. All these so called "EMERGENCY" is just a crock of $$$T.Hope the knew members can start putting the breaks on what has been happening in the city.But as of many,I wont believe it till I see it.
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Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 2:58pm
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I have attempted to contact all council members to ask about this situation. I have spoken with a few and a few could not be reached or haven't returned my calls. Those I have spoken to are not happy about what looks like a trick being played on them and causing even more distrust by the citizens. The next council meeting should be very interesting. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 3:35pm
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Go figure how this happened what are Schiavones qualifications for this job? Just goes to show that anything is possible.Don't forget that Dave has a brother that is well known around these parts. |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 3:40pm
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Does anyone know what the standards are for something to considered an emergency legislation. In hindsight - if this position is really needed, did it have to be declared an emergency. Emergency should be more a life or death type of situation. Not to get an ex counsil man a job.
Randy can you list which ones you have spoken with and which ones have not returned your calls. I would bet the ones that have not called you back are the ones that knew who was getting the job.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 4:18pm
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why get bent out of shape by the sos?
we had 3 new Council members(1st meeting) who were suckered into a seemingly normal vote on a mandated situation(or so "they" say).
The ?s should probably directed at the judicial dept. and their hiring practices(particularly in this incident).
Our judge is an elected official(and a good, honest man) with the buck stopping at his desk.
He should be the "answer man" in this situation(as I see it).
This situation just came about.
I would expect answers/explanations to come, especially if the public continues to ? and turn up the heat(understandably).
Hey--maybe the guy will do a good job!!!!
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Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 4:26pm
------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: MerrellWood
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 6:15pm
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Freshman Council Members: A.J. Smith & Josh Laubach Do your homework. Don't assume anything. Say nothing unless your prepared to eat you words. Are you? |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 6:36pm
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Why are you only mentioning Smith and Laubach, there is another Freshmen in a seat. Not only that Mr. Wood you are calling out the two Council members that have been willing to come here and talk about today. Cant sat that for any others, Only one other member has a reason for not being on the site today and thats because she is out of town. So lets give this two some credit for stepping up to the plate ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: MerrellWood
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 6:50pm
| I'm not calling anyone out ... They are doing their job by responding to their constituents. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 6:57pm
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Mr. Wood, like most I am not happy about this new development, not that David got the job but that it seems that no one else was interviewed for the job. It was just handed to him. I give a lot of credit to Smith and Laubach much respect for coming here today, we should Be talking about the members that are silent tonight. To me that speaks volumes. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 6:58pm
| Sounds like a threat to me Mr. Wood. If you have something to say spit it out. |
Posted By: MerrellWood
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 7:46pm
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Wastefull .... I doubt that A.J. or Josh would interpret my advice as some kind of threat. As to having "something to spit out," it's nothing more than advice that has served me well and I would offer it to anyone, including yourself.... |
Posted By: MerrellWood
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 9:08pm
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Come-on guys, it was just a little advice. Let not beat this thing to death...Spider, obviously I stand by my piece about new blood on council. Don't you folks think I took some heat over that? As to coming in last in the mayors race...someones got to.. Love to you all. . |
Posted By: transplant
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 9:17pm
| if this doesn't put an end to the "emergency" pieces of legislation nothing will. what did senior staff know? what questions did they ask the court about this position? why was there no staff report in the legislative packet? did senior staff or members of the commission ask about the process that would be taken to fill the position? can the commission rescind this piece of legislation to make sure a proper process is followed? |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 9:30pm
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I have basically been speechless since this news surfaced. (Yes, I am aware that this is a condition that many find refreshing,)
I do have one thought to add:
It was apparently known that "The money was already in the budget for 2010." That means that this position was know about since the 2010 budget was prepared and submitted to council for aqpproval EARLY IN THE FOURTH QUARTER OF 2009.
This begs two questions:
1. By voting to approve the 2010 budget including this new position, did Shiavonne cast a de facto vote for creating a position that he now occupies?
2. How could this possibly have been an "emergency"? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 10:31pm
| Don't forget the 50ks that he conned to open a 6 month BBQ joint that went under. Also has anyone ever found out what the law suits were about and if there was ever any outcome. Yea I will feel better knowing that if the power goes down that he is leading the charge. Can you say generator? |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jan 11 2010 at 11:37pm
If we don't know anything else about this apparent back-room deal we do know this.....Why Schiavone didn't run again for council. 
And it would seem that the so called emergency declaration was imposed so Schiavone could go to work immediatly and start getting a paycheck. Hhhmmmm....------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Nelson R. Self
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 12:11am
| I hope City Council members question certain senior City staff as to what's really going on at City Hall? The truth will set the captives free! |
Posted By: Nelson R. Self
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 12:18am
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Mike -
Once again you've done your homework! Thanks for shedding light on the real issues!
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Posted By: rngrmed
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 1:36am
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I worry about this turning council in to another "Jerry Springer" episode. I'm sure some of the good ol boys took advantage of the new guys and are probably somewhere laughing at them and us now. Call them out on it and it turns in to a debacle and the new guys are termed "troublemakers".
I think Merrill Woods is right, choose your words wisely and be prepared to have them thrown back at you.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 7:10am
Just a suggestion......AJ and Josh....... Would you be able to research the ordinances that pertain to creating new positions, paying specific attention to any mention of council being able to recind any ordinance creating that position? Is there any action that can be taken by you to get this thing reversed? If reversable, how many councilmembers would it take to support this decision? This whole thing, heaven forbid, might be a done deal and we may never see Schiavone leave the position. Think this "part time" job of his may develop into full time down the road after the smoke has cleared and we citizens have forgotten about it? They have tried that little trick several times in the past, haven't they?- put one of their buddies into a cake walk job on a temp. basis, let it slide out of sight for awhile, and then, down the road, surfaces as a full time ride on the gravy train?????? Don't let 'em do that in this case. Make sure that if Schiavone does stay in the job, he stays for the 5 weeks or so and leaves. Don't trust these  's a bit. Let's make an issue of this on behalf of the citizens. As Merrill says- DO YOUR HOMEWORK- MAKE SURE YOU ARE FOLLOWING THE RULES- PRESENT YOUR CASE- WAIT FOR THE LEGALITY BULLCRAP FROM LANDEN AND THE VINDICTIVE BULL FROM GILLELAND TO HIT YOU and STAND YOUR GROUND! If they keep showing their posterior as to attitude, start the initial phases of termination for both of them. The town would benefit from them being gone anyway. JMO
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 7:16am
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Some people live and learn.
Others just go on living.
No need to over-react to this situation.
As mentioned, maybe Mr.S will do a good job(as long as his hours worked are clearly monitored and documented).
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 7:46am
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Hey...remember the totality of his fiasco at the County!
He knowingly falsified timecards (his own, and approved those of people he supervised), but I've heard that the total amount of manhours times the salaries involved would've raised it to felony level.
Also, they had to BAR HIM from the workplace because he was going around trying to coerce co-workers into testifying (and I doubt testifying truthfully) for him.
This is the kind of guy that should be working in the court system? He should have been thrown off city council. He also should have been prosecuted, instead of merely been "permitted to resign". ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 7:48am
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People, somewhere, this all has to STOP!
Landen, Kohler, Schiavonne, Gilleland, the Historical Society, MMF...why in the world do we stand for all of this??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 8:47am
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Just an FYI, on January 1st, 2010 David Schiavone became a private citizen...people making slanderous comments about a private citizen aren't protected from being sued by that person, unlike they would be if he were a public official.
Also, a few other points:
-$5,000 total pay for 6 weeks of work does not equal a golden parachute in most peoples books, nor does it "explain" his reason for leaving council...I don't know about you, but I've never heard of anyone buying a house in the bahamas for $5k...after taxes $3,500....are you kidding me?
-City council has absolutely NO say in the appointment of a judicial employee, they are 2 entirely separate entities. The council doesn't appoint the judge, the judge doesn't answer to council. The only reason for the emergency legislation is out of courtesy to the council. The judge can and will do whatever he wants with or without the support of council.
-AJ and Josh, the cities unemployment is sky high, people are fleeing the city in droves (or they would be if they could sell their houses), the tax base is shrinking...and this is the kind of thing that you want to waste your time on. Read the charter before you overstep your bounds anymore and put yourself in a position where you inexperience/immaturity to the entire community. This is why nothing gets done in this city, no one wants to face the real issues, they just want to create noise and look like they know how to do their job.
-So there is no confusion, COUNCIL HAS NO SAY IN THE APPOINTMENT OF JUDICIAL EMPLOYEES, NONE, ZERO! IF YOU READ THE ORC YOU WOULD KNOW THIS.
-For all of you conspiracy theorists out there, get a life!
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Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 9:38am
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If people are joining the site to state their opinion on this thread and tell others to “get a life” then we must be on point about something and getting under someone’s skin. And for the record there are no slanderous comments being made here, if you believe there are, please point them out and I will take the proper action. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 9:47am
| I don't know who you are Murray - but I did not slander him in anyway. However like you said there are a lot of unemployed individuals in this city that would have jumped at this job - had it been posted properly. Schiavione has no more experience in this field or a good track record as alot of citizens. You say the city has nothing to do with the courts, I am sure on paper you are right. However, this money was put in the budget for 2010, those budgets were finalized in 2009 - correct. Schiavonie had knowledge of the budgets (see the conflict) .This was put in front of council as an emergency - state why this had to be an emergency. Making sure lights stay on for the 72 hour required arrainment time is nothing new. Why did he get the position in 3 days - others were not given the opportunity to provide their resumes for this temp position. This was a good ole boy handout to an excouncil member and you know it. If he really is the best qualified for the position (5000 means a lot to some people by the way - maybe not you) have your friends open it up and let others apply as well. |
Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 9:49am
People need to realize that it might have been safe to say these things 2 weeks ago, however that's not the case anymore, he's a private citizen. Spout off all you want, but know that you are risking legal action against you.
I don't know of the details of his hiring, however I do know he has a background in criminal justice as well as the judicial system...sounds qualified to work a part-time job without benefits for several weeks.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 9:52am
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Ms.Andrew calls us the "enemy camp"
Mr.Adkins calls us "vultures"
Mr.Marconi calls us "liars"
Mayor Mulligan states that Council "is not set up to answer ?s"
sticks and stones...blah blah blah
so--we must be doing something right to be viewed as such a threat, and this site obviously has the attention of our detractors, AND is perfectly set up to answer ?s.
so--watch what u say
do it carefully and as factually as possible
and most importantly of all--turn up the heat on our public figures!
they took an oath to represent our concerns
They appreciated our support towards their election--so why turn on us now?
Smith,Laubaugh and Picard just started.
One meeting so far.
I think that they have already learned an important lesson.
Hopefully they will grow from this situation, and "Won't Be Fooled Again"
"Meet the New Boss
Same as the Old Boss"
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Posted By: justwatching
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 9:55am
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Murray,
I'm not sure who you are... but I know you're a moron. That comment by tomahawk is in no way slanderous. Maybe someone should have bought you a dictionary for Christmas. And as far as anyone being "risking legal action", well.... DUH. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. I can sue you because I don't like your haircut and it causes me emotional distress. That doesn't mean it's a valid lawsuit and that the courts won't throw it out immediately. Take a hike Murray, no one is listening to your BS. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 9:57am
I don't have a degree in anything nor am I the smartest guy in Middletown (my Brother might be though) so Mr. Murray can please enlighten me as to what is slanderous about this comment?
And once again I am sure there many people in this town that are qualified to do that job, tell us, in all your infinite wisdom why these people where not given the opportunity to apply? ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:01am
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Thanks for the advice, got a dictionary...
slander - a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slander - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slander
What word do you think I should be using?
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Posted By: Jlaubach
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:04am
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Murray, Thanks for the feedback. However, just some clarity; I dont feel that I am wasting my time on this issue. People have concerns and so do I. Also,I don't feel your labeling ( inexperience/immaturity ) are reasonable. Disagree with me you may but I ask that you address me on substance and not names and assertions. I am mature enough to come to this site and have true discussion with people who dont agree with me. To be fair, I invite you to next Tuesday's council meeting. I have no issues with addressing anyone and having a full conversation in light of public record.
I understand the charter well and have read it many times. This is not about council telling the judge what to do. You are correct, we dont have that authority( As a matter of fact this is not about the Judge at all). This about the appearance to the community on the hiring of an ex-commissioner less than six days after we agreed to create this positon. My point is this; I and other members, created this position with good faith that we were given all the proper information. Looking back, I ( and other council members) dont feel this was the case. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". It wont happen again.
To your other point, I and other people on council are extremely motivated. There is business to get done and we will get it done in a professional mannger. As we speak I and others are addressing the pressing matters you stated above. We are not incomptitent and can multi-task.
Thanks,
Josh
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Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:23am
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The fact of the matter is this Josh, there is absolutely no law that says the Court has to go to the council with this matter at all. The court does it out of courtesy to the council. If they wanted to circumvent council all together, they could do so without any issue.
If the council is going to try and micro manage the court, it is overstepping its boundaries and could cause the court to not involve the council in future matters.
Regardless of who the judge hired, it doesn't matter. He could hire his son/sister/brother/neighbor for the job, he could know DS from a prior life and knew he would be a good fit, in no way is that illegal or unethical.
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Posted By: justwatching
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:27am
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Murray,
As you've just clearly stated, no comments are on here slanderous per your definition (which is the one I use as well). That lack being malicious, which, as the definition says, is required. The word your looking for is: opinion. These are people's opinions. That is all. |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:27am
| Illegal - probably not, but what happened was very unethical. |
Posted By: Jlaubach
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:36am
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Murray, Let me try again. I nor anyone else on council is making this about the Judge or the court. I get that. Please don’t put words into my mouth or imply that we are trying to stir relations with our court. Nor are we saying that this is a specific ethics violation(even though I was briefed by city staff that an ex-commissioner could not do business with the city for up to 12months following the end of a term). What I am saying is that most likely someone knew Mr. S was going to get that job before we approved it and did not make all of council privy to that. Again, had I known that was the deal, I would not have voted for that. (Nothing against David but that DOES NOT pass the “smell test”) However, I made a mistake and assumed I was getting the info that everyone else had. No excuses for me. It won’t happen again. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt until they lose that privilege. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:38am
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Murray- Don't know who you are but you sound like you come from the problem children camp located at the city building. FYI, we are all private citizens away from the job site. However, when one occupys a municipal court position, or any fed, state, or city government job, they come under the scrutiny of the public and therefore incur the mercy/wrath of the public. If Schiavone chooses to work in a government position, he is a target for scrutiny. The comments that have been made here are published facts and are in the public domain of information. It is not slanderous to state what is public record and to state what the man actually did on previous jobs. The Municipal Court is a public entity. The judges are elected by the voting public. The whole court system is public domain INCLUDING the taxpayer funded employees. If Schiavone is now an employee, he is in the public domain.
The $5000 pay is not the point. No one ever said that the salary was the issue. The alleged "back door" hiring, council not being given all the information to make a decision on approving the position, whether Schiavone is qualified, the need for emergency legislation by Landen and the convenience of the hiring are the issues. Council may have no say in the appointment of the judicial employee but they certainly had a say in whether the position should have even existed. They could have denied this request. If they would have known it was Schiavone, and all the improprieties it presents in giving him the job, all of this may have not happened at all. You only see this as a Schiavone hiring disaster. It is much bigger than that. This fiasco is an example of the bigger picture of the games being played by the childish leaders of this town. It is much more serious than just a Schiavone meal ticket and favoritism/council nepotism. It is the special little group of insiders that have, once again, backdoored the citizens by taking care of one of their own in a secretive manner that is not above board and should not be tolerated anymore. There is nothing wrong with AJ and Josh checking on the ordinances to see if this could be recinded and made right. At the very least, they will learn something in the process. It does not hurt to call them on this. As to conspiracy- the city leaders do their best to do things in this town to promote the feeling of conspiracy. If they were honest, communicated openly with the people, assigned all their buddies to committees/key positions in town and stopped all of this closed door session crap, we, the people, wouldn't be thinking conspiracies all the time. Until they change, we have no choice but to think that way. We have a life, bud, and part of it is to monitor the underhanded schemes that your low-life buddies are always trying to lay on the citizens of this town. |
Posted By: Mr. Dave
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:39am
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My God, Murray you may just be the biggest @#$hole I have ever read a post by. And thats hard to beat considering some of the comments people make here. How can you say there was nothing wrong with how all this went down? You are either David or his well known brother, either way this is why people dont trust this city. You do things like this and expect the citizens to just say OK thats fine. Then when someone says something you dont like you talk lawsuit, if you wanna see slanderous I can no doubt give you that, and you can sue me all you want, nothing from nothing is nothing which is just what you would get. Idiot !! Mr. Laubach, dont sweat it, the good ol' boys scored one now you just have to score two. We have faith in you.
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Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:41am
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Is it unethical? No one has any information other than what was in the paper. Everyone wants it to be unethical so that there is something to gripe about and entertain everyone for a day or two. "Smell test" or not, if you had voted NO and the court still wanted to hire him, they could do so without issue. They can hire and fire at will, without the consent of cousil.
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Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:54am
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As a non-elected city employee, he does not fall under the same umbrella as the judge. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:54am
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Is it unethical...no!! Is it right hell no!! If council had known all the facts then they could have voted accordingly, but they did not have that info. Now you can say what you want about he courts, had council voted it down then the courts could have hired him anyway and it would have been done with out the council's approval and then we as citizens we see that a new council has taken over and wont just rubber stamp everything in front of them.
People can say what they want I know that some on council knew what was happening while others were keep in the dark. That Sir is a fact, I know some people in the city building and you and I both know that went down as a back door deal. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:56am
| Murray- doesn't the salary to pay for Schiavone's position come from the city budget? And isn't the city budget worked up by the city manager and submitted for COUNCIL'S APPROVAL? And isn't it a possibility that Council could come back and revise that budget to reflect a change to not allow the approval of the salary for this position therefore, in essence, canceling the position altogether by cutting the funding? True or not? If true, council does have some control over this position. The court can place whoever they want in the position without council's approval, but if the salary funding is cut off, it negates the court's placement, doesn't it? |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:57am
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Murray - I can't even believe you would say this was ethical. I would love to know your real name because your statements really show what type of person you are. I am sure all of us are speculating who you are, I have my opinion of who you are - which does explain to me why you would think this was handled ethically.
The time line is proven in more ways then just reading the Journal. You get approval for a position onTues night and you hire someone on Fri. Prove us wrong on that. If he was not already choosen for this position then provide information that states they had looked for individuals that could provide this assistance to the courts.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:00am
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Nothing unethical at all. The Court had this option.
The credentials of the person chosen have understandably created public concern.
Mr.S did not have a favorable resume from his prior court system employment.
The conditions that led to his Butler County exit SHOULD cause concern for EVERYONE, considering this new position and how Mr.S will be monitored. As mentioned prior, let's hope that he does an excellent job.
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Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:12am
| I can neither prove, nor disprove...but neither can you. The thing that concerns me is that everyone on this blog is feeding off of one another when no one (admittedly, including myself) has all of the information. So to be making accusations of back door dealing is both premature and irresponsible, in my opinion. |
Posted By: justwatching
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:16am
| I have to agree with that statement Murray. Good point. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:17am
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That may be your best statement in a post Mr. Murray, but it does look bad. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:37am
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Murray:
First, I don't recall anyone here making this about the judge except YOU! You seem to be the ONLY one who keeps bringing that up. The rest of us understand the relationship between a municipal court and the legislative authority of that municipality.
Next, as far as your definition "slander against his good name.", well, one would have to have a good name before it could be slandered. Check the record.
Also, a "public figure" does NOT cease being a public figure, in the case of a politician, on the day that he leaves office! Get a grip! There are people who have been retired from public life for decades and are dead and buried, yet they are still considered "public figures". (You seem to like definitions. try this one from West's Law Dictionary: "A description applied in http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Libel+and+Slander - Libel and Slander actions, as well as in those alleging invasion of privacy, to anyone who has gained prominence in the community as a result of his or her name or exploits, whether willingly or unwillingly. One does not "lose prominence" overnight, especially when one continues one's exploits!!!)
Lastly, if you, or Hizzoner "Honest Dave", want to file suit, I guess the easiest target would be ME!!! After all, I post over my REAL NAME, Mr./Ms. Murray. I've got some time...BRING IT ON!!!
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:37am
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Murray - As many have stated and I also echo the statements,I don't know you & I don't care who you are. You could be Schiavones brother,his attorney or chief of police,I could care less. Your talk is nothing more than a scare tactic to intimadate the people on this site, and as you can see it doesn't work here.
The people of this town have a right to know the truth. If the court & city council have no dealings with each other as YOU state then why did council have to present the emergency declaration and create an ordinance for this job ? With Schiavone's record of past jobs and his involvement in criminal activity makes him the least qualified to be working for or in the courts.
Nothing you say even makes sense. Your lack of outrage in this case is suspect & questionable.
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Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:43am
| I personally have no intent/nor reason to sue anyone, I'm merely stating there are legal remedies to this situation if one so chooses. |
Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:45am
| Everyone wants blood...deep down you all know that if this isn't a back door dealing like you think it is, you will all be disappointed, not happy (as you should be) |
Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:49am
Why don't you ask Josh, AJ, or any other council member if the court had to go to council with this...I assure you I'm not making things up.
I think your use of the phrase "criminal activity" is used rather loosely. I'd like to see your evidence of said illegal activity...what information do you have regarding criminal activity? Are you talking about the issue with the county court? 1. ) there were absolutely no charges ever made, if there was crime committed against you, wouldn't you prosecute? 2.) If there was criminal activity, why was he hired at another court? Must not have been such a big deal, hmmm.
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 12:03pm
No one wants blood,what we all want is an explanation !! There are way to many questionable dealings going on here. Certain council members and no doubt other city officials kept this whole thing hush,hush. As Mike stated that the salary for this court job was without a doubt added to the budget last year without everyones knowledge,and plans for the ordinance was without a doubt created probably about the same time. How are we suppose to see this ? Especially when the job was never announced so that others could apply !! There was no public discussion,debate or anything else,it was open & closed before anyone could even realize what was happening. And how do you explain that a sitting councilman who was soon to be retiring from his position is suddenly granted a new job without explanation to anyone and possibly created just for him ??!!! Explain that conspiracy Murray,thats all we want is an explanation.
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Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 12:06pm
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Out of curiousity, if I asked you to quit your job in exchange for a 35 hr a week job for 6 weeks, would you do it?
To want an explanation is fine, but to start a witch hunt is an entirely differnt matter.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 12:13pm
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 12:14pm
| Murray - What planet are you on ? Everyone knows Schiavones record and how he was fired from two jobs for what he did and yes it was criminal ! And no he was not prosecuted but in my opinion he should have been from what I know of both incidents. Again Murray you offer no explanation,reasons or anything else. If you would prefer,send me a private email and explain all this to me. If I am wrong I'll admit it and offer a public apology,but until then your statements are futile. |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 12:22pm
Murray - Thats an easy one,if I am a sitting council member and the job being offered to me is being created just for me or my connections to the courts will get me that job and if I have no morals and could care less what the public thinks,then yes,I'll take the job. If I am honest & sincere and care about the general public whom I serve & have served,then NO,I would not even consider a back-room deal like this.
Does that answer your question ?
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Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 1:07pm
| So is all of this fact? Or are you filling in some blanks here? That's all I'm saying...see previous posts. |
Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 2:02pm
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I find rather amusing that before this so called"EMERGENCY" came up that someone didnt mention that DS was already placed in the job. Murray as someone stated "What planet are you from?" Are council seems to only place a "EMERGENCY" when they dont want the citizens to give feedback on it. But again they have been doing it for along time. I myself didnt get into this nonsense until are council decided to rezone land for a damn pollution pit. When they decided that AK Hellhole is worth more than the health of the kids,the seniors at Garden Manor,and the people that live in the surrounding. Before you say it Im Not from Monroe,hate to admit it but Im from Middletucky and hopeing like hell I can sell and get the hell out of this deadtown. |
Posted By: jag123
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 2:48pm
What do I say about all of this................ DAMN BENGALS
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 5:04pm
I'm with you jag....Damn Bengals !!!
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Posted By: stewieboy
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 12:25am
| I believe Court maintains their own budget separate from the city's budget. Court employee salaries are mostly paid for by the county, not the city. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 7:27am
| stewieboy- I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say that this position funding was configured in last years city budget? Is that right or not folks? Is stewieboy right? Does Schiavone's salary come from the county budget? If so, why is this issue before the city council, why was an ordinance adopted and why was it declared an emergency by Landen? |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 10:59am
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Mr. Murray, you have yet to answer the one question that I asked more than once, If council has no say so in this matter why bring them an emergency ordnance in the first place? And please dont say out of courtesy , it the decision council made that day didn't really matter in the first place why waste their time and quite frankly mine as well as I sat there listening to the ordnance being read. So please explain to me ans the rest of our readers Why?? ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 11:11am
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My post did answer it...it said out of courtesy (although I don't think I spelled it correctly, my fault)...not out of curiosity. From my understanding it is faster to have it approved by council, but not necessary. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 11:29am
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So pretty much it was a waste of time. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 11:31am
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OK well what was the rush to create this job? if you can explain that to me (in a logical way) I will leave this subject alone till more facts come out. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Murray
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 11:37am
| It is my understanding that the rush to create the job was because Middletown Courts were dinged for lack of appropriate security by the Ohio Supreme Court and told to fix it. In light of what happened in Las Vegas a few weeks ago, I could see why that is important. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 11:45am
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Ok, I will wait for more infor to come out before voicing my opinion any more, but in closing you and I both know that something funny went down. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: stewieboy
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 2:11pm
From the Court Directors staff report to City mgr:
" There is no financial impact to the city as the funds for this position would be available from the Court’s Special Projects Fund. The Municipal Court would stay within their approved 2010 budget."
The court's special project fund is not part of the city budget. I think it is partially funded from court fines. The city has no hand, unfortunately, in this fund.
I'm going to go against the grain here in being slightly dissapointed in the way that AJ and JL are reacting to this issue. By being "extremely upset", "furious", and "deeply apologizing" seem like grandstanding and melodramatic. This might very well be warranted, but not without first knowing all the facts first. Coming out with guns blazing first seem very insincere to me. I'm not a politican and not a fan of this cities management, but in 20 years of business I've seen it too often where the new "kid", though well intentioned, comes out making the most noise, but end up stumbling. Let your actions speak for you. You build credibility that way, and the noise you make after that will be taken more seriously.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 2:23pm
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stewie's final paragraph pretty much says it all.
couldn't agree more--and hopefully our new Council members have learned a great deal from this situation. I expect them to modify their stance and act accordingly. Time to vote down un-necessary "emergency" legislation at each and every meeting.
Still--sounds like Mr.S was aware of this opening b4 leaving Council and jumped on the opportunity after leaving Council. As to whether it was discussed with Mr.Rossi et al in advance, who knows? Obviously no one else was considered for the position, and Mr.S does have a backround within the court system. He has been hired, and will hopefully do an outstanding job.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jan 16 2010 at 7:46am
From the Journal today, the most interesting part of the quote to me is in red:
Thumbs down to a contentious hire"While we have a great deal of respect for Judge Mark Wall and other officials in Middletown Municipal Court, we have to bestow a “thumbs down” over the recent hiring of former Middletown City Council member David Schiavone by the court. Granted, Schiavone will only be working for the court on a part-time and temporary basis, but even the appearance of impropriety — that Schiavone possibly used his influence to get the job — should be avoided. Critics of City Hall have enough ammunition without giving them a gift-wrapped grievance like this."
Must be some credence to what is said on this board.
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jan 16 2010 at 9:39am
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Good post Pacman !!
And I agree with you,must be something to it.
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