Verdin PAC
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: Economic Development
Forum Description: Local government efforts to develop the local Middletown area economy.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3101
Printed Date: Aug 05 2025 at 11:17pm
Topic: Verdin PAC
Posted By: squeemy
Subject: Verdin PAC
Date Posted: Jul 04 2010 at 7:52am
| just wondering what the nattering nabobs think of this one... |
Replies:
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 04 2010 at 9:42am
| As long as it is being done with Private Funds go at it. As a current business owner in Middletown I wouldn't do it, but that is just my opinion. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 04 2010 at 10:04am
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I'm with pacman
As long as this is on Verdin's/PAC's dime, I think that it would be a wonderful addition and anchor.
Could lead many new, innovative and fun locations in the area.
Still--the area is hard to reach, with many higher-end entities avoiding the location for that reason(along with the area demographics and current lack of amenities). That location dilemma won't go away.
Could open up the other entrances to the city:
Rt.4 north from Hamilton/Liberty--also south from Germantown/Dayton
W Middletown brige serving Madison and surrounding areas
Rt.73 from Franklin/Springboro/Dayton
We have too many primary needs to currently use public funding for an arts project that will only benefit a select few early on. Exactly how is the current refurbishing of the property being financed btw?
Remember--we can't afford to fix our infrastructure properly or without special fund-shifting and postponing scheduled road maintenence.
Revitalization through private funding is the answer.
Makes the new business addition much more motivated towards success when it is their own $$ on the line.
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Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Jul 04 2010 at 1:56pm
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Middletown doesn't strike me as the sort of town that you are going to sell $7500.00 or even $500.00 pieces of art on a regular basis. But hey if someone wants to put their own funds into this venture no problem. Isn't One in Middletown going to be awful close to the Cincy one and if I was a starving artist I would probably rent space in Cincy figuring there are more art buyers in Cincy then there are in Middletown.
http://www.pendletonartcenter.com/ - http://www.pendletonartcenter.com/ http://www.pendletonartcenter.com/ashland_ky.html -
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 04 2010 at 5:33pm
| I agree with everyone on the usage of private funds for any endeavor in the downtown area. I also agree with wasteful on the suggestion that Middletown, given the general populace of the town (ie- mostly working class/moderate to lower income), won't support the arts, both in concept and in the prices. Owning art, for the most part, is a luxury that, I would imagine, most Middletonians can't (or won't be interested) in purchasing. The idea of trying to get Middletown to be a fancy, upscale, "cultural" city just doesn't fit the "climate" of the town. I believe it is destined (and thought by most people) to be the working class city between two larger ones. JMO |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jul 04 2010 at 8:28pm
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There are a few in Middeltown that can afford to buy art. Not everyone is section 8 and welfare in this town. I'm sure there are a few drug dealers with money for investing as well as a few hookers. Once a few paintings are sold I'm sure someone will find another use for the building. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 8:06am
The police in this town are "selective" about the laws they enforce and who the laws pertain to. But that is a another topic. Yes it is pretty sad that a child has to be hurt for the cops to pay attention. Just like fireworks,only a few are lawful in Ohio but did we see any arrest or citations from last night ? Not a thing ! But don't let your grass get 6 inches high or rust on your gutters !! You'll go to jail and be harrassed by cops for the rest of your life !  ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
wasteful wrote:Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 10:08am
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I believe the City has already given a special loan or grant money to this company to remodel the building. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 11:23am
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Just some info in looking at the PAC in Ashland, Rising Sun and Cincy.
Cincy opened in 1991 they have 510 studios currently have 157 artists or about 30% rented.
Ashland opened in 2005 they have 40+ Studios currently have 22 artists or about 55% rented.
Rising Sun opened in 2000 they have 20 Studios currently have 20 artists.
Now they want 120 artists in Middletown, the question is will Middletown support 120 artists if they run at 100% capacity which is doubtful. 120 studios is a lot for a town in Middletown's condition. I don't see restaurants and supporting businesses opening to support what will more likely be 50 or more likely less starving artists. I also don't see supporting businesses opening to support an art community which is open to the Public maybe 10-15 hrs. a week on Fridays and Saturdays. They are expecting some business people to put an awful lot of money and hope into a big gamble on a city like Middletown and the arts. The city can't even support a Book store or a small mall with the basics and we are going to support an Arts Center to this extent. While it would be nice, I am just not seeing it under the current conditions.
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 1:13pm
Can an artist apply for section 8 ?
Just wondering.......  ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 1:38pm
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Pacman - thank you for the statistics. It is amazing the only center that is currently running at capacity is the one located next to the casinos - a major tourist attraction. We do not have that type of traffic in Middletonw to support the artists. I think the information that is was in the paper is reversed - you have a successful studio near an already established tourist area. Not a studio bringing in business to establish a community.
Thank of it as a business opportunity - if you were to rent a space as a starving artist and the spaces were within a hours drive of each other - would you pick a casino resort area, bad part of Cincy or Middletown - which they have probably never heard of.
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Posted By: Nelson Self
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 2:28pm
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Pacman -
I agree with Bobbie. Thank you also for the interesting statistical data.
NRS
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 2:56pm
| What is the dam infatuation with an arts district anyway? Don't understand why you would want to fashion a downtown theme after an interest (the arts) that would attract such a small percentage of the population.......and, in Middletown, the epitome of blue collar working people, no less!!! Most of us aren't interested in the arts. Most of us working people are interested in sports, movies and music, etc. as items to spend our disposable income (assuming any of us have disposable income anymore). Amazing, illogical thinking on the part of the city developers IMO. Much better, IMO, to do as Bobbie's post suggests and procure a casino.....THEN build the artzy thing, restaurants, hotels and supporting cast around that. A casino as a central theme and main interest drawing point makes much more sense. A casino is going to draw many more people to the downtown- 7 days a week-24 hours a day, as opposed to the smaller percentage, during limited operating times, that an arts studio would attract. Do you see more people at a casino, or around an arts district? JMO |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 3:10pm
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Can't disagree with anything said here
I love the concept and directional change if it could work.
Plenty of challenges
BTW--yer tax money is being used to refurbish that crappy old building(serious $$ probably), and there will be incentives(agin yer tax $$) offered to this private enterprise
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 4:09pm
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Vet Middletown leaders and the same old people who have always gotten their way have forgotten the basic building blocks of any community/city/town and that is to be a desirable place to live.
Have Good Schools
Have Good Housing
Have good amenities
Have low poverty
Have low crime
Have infrastructure that is well planned out and maintained
Have good Health care
Have the basics of Entertainment that people want today.
Have a good variety of retail and service businesses
Have a leadership and management that works for the people and not just for what they and a few of the old die hards want.
Have a well rounded religious offering
If you have all of these items and a few more, people will want to move here, they will want to live here and raise their families here. Having an Art Center setup as a bunch of studios is the gravy that comes after you have figured out the basics..
Right now Middletown can't figure out how to make the basics work that are needed. They don't want to listen to but a few of the cities citizens and basically say screw the rest of you. They keep trying to shoot for the moon, when they haven't figured out how to fix the roads to drive to the grocery store yet.
If you get the basics done the rest will come.
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 4:44pm
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SpiderJohn
I believe I heard the number of half a million dollars was given for this project.
If we can't support our local MAC how will we be able to support another art dealer? |
Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 6:06pm
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I'm optimistic about PAC filling the old Mabley and Carew department store only because it has the potential to attract a creative group of people. many are nostalgic for the downtown we remember from our youth - a downtown that existed because people worked there.
today's business doesn't require that sales be local. our Middletown facility has no local customers - only two in Ohio. but we sell all over the world. we're here because it's dirt cheap - something artists and start-up engineers love. should be interesting to see how the artists react to Middletown - can only hope they're not too disappointed at the entrenched provincialism. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 6:28pm
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So Squeemy you got any money invested in Middletown other than possibly a home, or do you even live outside of the city? What you call provincialism I call economic sensibility for the conditions in Middletown. Your problem like many others in town is you want the old days back and they aren't coming back, unfortunate but true. At what point do you all step into the 21st century and move ahead for the good of all of the citizens and not just yourselves. If you continue to lose 10% of your population every 10 years and that may escalate if there is not a turn around in the mindset of Middletonians and Middletown itself, it doesn't really matter what you put downtown does it.
The only businesses that will currently survive downtown are ones that do not rely on Middletown residents for sales. Beauverre and Waldon Studios don't rely on sales from Middletown to survive although I hear Waldon has moved back to his home to paint.
Do you really think that 6 months in, in the dead of winter First Friday and Second Saturday are going to be a big draw downtown at the PAC? It doesn't take a creative group to turn Middletown around, it takes a logical group to bring back the basics that people want and the creative endeavors will follow. Simple logic, nothing narrow minded about it.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 7:52pm
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Pacman nailed it Squeem.
First we need to fix our streets, eliminate being a nightly feature on the local news with constant low-end sensationalized crime, stabilize public safety and bring local jobs to town.
Past/current "leaders" have steered us very poorly, wasting both years and millions of $$ on failed economic development plans, and a subsidized housing strategy that has both entrenched us in a perpetuating poverty cycle which has also dominated our city admin in time spent and an addiction to it's funding.
A supposed $500,000 of citizen $$ so far to fix this building(another owner who skated out cost-free) and guaranteed more to put the tenant in(do we get our $$ back through assesments?). Sound like Beau Verre all over again, and the flocks of tourists coming in to visit the area? All at a time when we can't afford to fix streets, run the park programs, or control crime(primarily in the downtown "art" district). I don't remember this re-furbishment being discussed by Council or written up for the public.
Hey--I hope that this miracle works, and is the beginnin g of a new positive era in that neighborhood. I would like to open a business there myself. Still--I talked to a couplejust today, who have operated on Central Ave. in that area for as long as I can remember. Their comments were "business has stopped like never before, the only traffic is from the wrong element, and that they were ready to hang it up".
If these artists actually live here and patronize local businesses, then the favor will probably be returned. If they drive in and out daily and sell primarily over the internet, then the project won't work for Middletown.
jmo
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Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 8:59pm
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this Middletown native isn't too happy about how tax money is spent either - at any level, fed, state, county, etc. but I don't know anyone who is - so no rants here about that. I know many of those in local gov't - I know them to hold the best interests of the city at heart if not always their head. I have to be optimistic - moved a start up out of the house I own and into a building I rent - both in Middletown. hired a guy and might add a few more over the next year or so. any pessimism here is fatal. so as a native - I know the provincialism here runs deep - folks I know here are very set in their ways and don't see too far beyond their own predicament. but I guess if they weren't - they wouldn't be here. anyone up for the story of how George Verity got swindled into building a steel mill in Middletown? I suspect that if this forum were around in 1899, there'd be some serious ranting about the city kicking in $25k to get the mill here instead of Zanesville. some things never change. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 9:15pm
| Pac- you mention in your post " the same old people who have always gotten their way have forgotten the basic building blocks........" I remember a time in this town when the old guard was comprised of some people who actually made decent decisions while running a town that provided everything on your list of basics for this city and made this town a very enjoyable one to live in. The old guard of 40 years ago demonstrated some competence and direction for this city and actually saw to it that it was accomplished. Now, with the old guard gone, we have what I will term the "new breed outsiders" with the likes of Gilleland, Kohler, Robinette, Carolus, Landen and others who seem to be less competent, less able to make logical decisions, less able to find a town identity, less able to run the town in a quality manner. I, myself, don't blame the old guard for the demise of Middletown as much as I blame the new breed outsiders, who have trickled into town over time, assembled and basically brought the town to it's knees. They have failed to maintain the progress that was shown at one time many years ago. It has gone steadily downhill since the 70's. It will hit rock bottom soon, if we retain the quality of leadership we currently have. We must purge the outsiders through a new council that has cutting the deadwood out on their mind. JMO |
Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 9:38pm
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I was wrong the city provided Verity $75,000 in funding and the site - that's in 1899 dollars. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 9:42pm
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"I know them to hold the best interests of the city at heart if not always their head"- squeemy
If that be true, squeemy, why do these same people, who hold the "interest of the city", try their level best to destroy it by the mis-management of funds, mis-allocation of priorities, lack of sense of direction, non-provision of basics, and the town cancer called Section 8? What you have stated doesn't reflect in their actions. Yes, folks are set in their ways in this town. Been that way since I was around in the early 50's. Some are stubborn transplanted Kentuckians sprinkled with Middletown born residents here. Always has been that way. More reason for their representatives- (ie city leaders and council members) to stay in touch with the people's wants and needs and provide them with such. Trouble is, the current leadership refuses to listen to the people. (except a small select group, of course) All the more reason for the majority of us to dislike the people that run the ship. The consideration of a major steel employer providing viable jobs to the people years ago is quite different than the topic of considering an arts district in a dying downtown area. The arts district idea and impact doesn't have the same punch as that of investing in a major employer in town. Don't know about your comparison. JMO |
Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Jul 06 2010 at 7:00am
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there seem to be a couple of topics going on here ... allow me to broaden the context a little by stepping back and understanding Middletown compressed under the same forces as every other industrial American city - forces that are not new. what was our reaction in the past to similar circumstances? what was government's role? did it have one? but more importantly - is Middletown fallow ground for new seed? what makes for a fertile environment for growth? does the general disposition of the people make a difference? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 06 2010 at 7:34am
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"Is Middletown fallow ground for new seed?" What makes for a "fertile environment for growth?" "Does the general dispostion of the people make a difference?" I'll take a shot here....
Fallow ground for new seed- No other choice. Middletown has always been a blue-collar industrial town. People had many choices until the beginning of the end for the paper mills and for Armco as to prosperity. Now, with industry drying up here and in the Rust Belt, we, like all the other Rust Belt towns, must find a new identity and town theme. Should have started with city council in the 70's when Armco started it's downsizing. Should have become diverse to absorb downtrends in certain technologies. Should have gone after research centers, corporate warehousing operations, communication companies, fiber optics companies, enticed some big name companies back then to locate here BECAUSE of location along I-75, a major traveling route. But no, the Bill Donhams and others at the time, chose to not plan to offset the losses nor create a diverse economy for this town. Now, we are paying the price for the inactivity of the 70's and 80's. Fertile environment for growth- a cooperative city government that is truely business friendly, not just saying it as we have now. One who has enough forward thinking to have created sites around town with matching utilities and ammenities to have attracted companies by now. Wasn't thought of back then and isn't being acted on now either. (with the exception of a few piddly announcements by Robinette about 10 or 20 jobs here and there) A little too late in the game as there is severe competition from all cities for jobs, but we have to start sometime. Need to start from ground zero and establish a headhunter mentality to seek decent jobs- not the weak attempts we have been seeing so far from the Econ. Dev. department. General disposition of the people make a difference- sure.....but some of that dispostion is triggered by the people's reaction to how they are listened to by their leaders. That ain't happening in Middletown. What we want for our town and what we get are two totally different things. Years ago, the people and the city government worked better together and the people felt they were heard moreso than now. Now, we have a small entity controlling the town and totally ignoring the people's wants and wishes. People are frustrated that the city is not bringing in job opportunities. They are tired of working those lousy $7 to $10/hour jobs and want some hope and progress in their lives. It ain't happening for them now. Major frustration and dissatisfaction from people resulting in major negativity toward the town and it's leaders. When people start seeing that their city government is on their side and actually start providing them opportunities to succeed, there is more cooperation in the town. JMO |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Jul 06 2010 at 8:00am
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Squemy - Verity and the steel mill is not even a comparison worth mentioning with the Art center. Everyone talks alot about wanting the nostalgic downtown. But what age group are we trying to get in a starving artist center. If you talk to someone in their 20's you are going to see alot different picture then someone in their 50's. The age group that would be living in a downtown area (not commuting) would be the younger generation. My guess is they would like convenience, grocery stores, night life (not the bars we currently have), coffee/deli shops, stores they can shop in (not consignment). They would probably enjoy a place to live where they would not look out to the current drug dealers and prostitutes. Someone in their 50's would commute into town. So they would probably do their shopping outside of downtown. So if the big sales are internet drivin - then there is no justification for spending a large sum of city money on this venture. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 06 2010 at 9:47am
Big difference between a Steel Mill and an Art Center.
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jul 06 2010 at 10:01am
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When are we going to get a street car system ? A street car system is a must have to transport people from the arriving train to the New Downtown area (aka East Side)
Now that we are getting the artist studio building the tourist will surely flock here in groves.
Can our current taxi system handle the mass flow or will they open more jobs by adding taxi cabs ?
Look what the bicycle path did for us,I can't even find a parking spot in old downtown due to the influx of so many tourist. We probably need to install parking meters,that would help with the street repair funding. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Jul 06 2010 at 10:06am
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After all the negative posts I've made, I'm going to feel like a compete horses ass if this pans out, and Middletown does become a mecca for art and artists... |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 06 2010 at 10:22am
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Why is it when people don't automatically agree with something like an Art Studio for a town that is falling apart they are being negative? The only point I am making is that there are many other issues that need attention in Middletown and if $500k was given on this project I can think of many other palces to spend it rather than giving it to a Well Off individual to renovate a building downtown for 50 or so Artists to have a place to paint and display their artwork on the weekends. Like I said early fix the major issues and this type of venture will come.
I also don't think many people interested in Middletown are doing a search as to whether Middletown has a PAC. What they are searching for is the list I provided above and is Middletown the place for them.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jul 06 2010 at 9:57pm
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First, I actually DO AGREE with what so many others have stated!! If these folks are using their own (or anyone else's willingly provided PRIVATE money, I am behind them 100%, and I sincerely hope that they make a small fortune!!! (And, in my view, a LARGE fortune would be even better!!!) I even believe that City Hall should afford them every encouragement that they would afford any other industrial or existing business that was willing to make a similar investment inside our city.
HOWEVER, if they are using taxpayers' dollars (from any source):
WARNING!!! The following contains adult content that is SARCASTIC and cynical, and may be found by some to be derisive!!! If you are offended by such material, PLEASE--read no further!!!
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What we need is some NEW ideas to bulk up our BOOMING downtown--something that's never been tried before!!! I've got it!! A quaint, old-fashioned "downtown" with stores and "shoppes"!! Perhaps some antique dealers, artists, artisans, and crafts of all kinds! And of course a trendy bistro, or three, with some fine wines!!! And why don't we have a couple of coffe houses downtown??? We need at least TWO Starbucks, don't we??
Yeah...that's the ticket!!! NO ONE has EVER tried any of that before!!! Folks will be rushing in here in droves if we try THAT. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Jul 06 2010 at 11:07pm
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I guess not many realize what a crapshoot giving newby steel maker Verity $75k was way back when. the venture came very close to failing on many occasions in the decade before the eastworks expansion. but that's part of the point here - tax money was used to draw business to Middletown and it we're all aware it paid off. we also know there are many more that fail than succeed. provincialism here is less unsophisticated narrow-mindedness but a profound aversion to risk. back in 1899 the competition was Zanesville - now its South Korea, Singapore, Mexico and the rest of the developing world. these governments aren't buying into the US free trade crap anymore and are actively subsidizing emerging industries. |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Jul 07 2010 at 7:35am
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Squemy - what Verity proposed for the tax money would bring jobs - a proposal for an art studio would not create jobs. I know you say that business build up around the studio - but I disagree. The only art studio running full capacity at this time is the one in Lawrenceburg. Was the center there before the casinos or after?
Lets say we do run full capacity on the artists - where are they going to live. Not downtown right now, this area would have to be cleaned up. Not even a guarentee they will live in Middletown, so they may not even shop in this area. I really do not have a problem with the Art Center, however we need other things first. A cleaner downtown with other business, such as the ones Presta mentioned. We do not have money to waste - set the priorites and go in that order. If they have private money, go for it, but they should not use public money at this time.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 07 2010 at 7:48am
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So Squeemy now you are saying an Art Center is an emerging industry. You are mixing the message here. We are not talking about another steel mill with 2000-3000 jobs. We are not talking about a factory or assembly line with 2000-3000 jobs.
We are talking about an Art Center that at best may have 50+ artist in it and is open to the public Fri. and Sat. Hey if they want to go to Mexico and Paint take a right at the I-75 inter-change. I'll tell you what Squeemy you are hot to trot on this Art Center deal, when there are so many other things that need to be done to attract new business and residents, why don't you take $200-300K and open a restaurant in one of the vacant buildings near the Art Center. I am sure 50 starving artist will be more than enough to keep you going downtown. Though it seems others have failed at this endeavor.
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Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Jul 07 2010 at 2:51pm
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beggars can't be choosers.
I like the idea that there's some reward for sticking your neck out and trying to create value in a depressed area and applaud BVR studio for attracting Verdin to town. it's a shame so many see this as a threat to the MAC because this is not a zero-sum game. all these groups compliment one another more than they inhibit each other's growth. does anyone have any disclosures for the public funding going to this? |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jul 07 2010 at 9:29pm
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Disclosures for the public funding??? In Middletown???
Hoo hoo ha!! hee hee ho!!! That was a good one!!!  ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Jul 08 2010 at 8:47am
| then this thread's discussion regarding the funding issue originates from rumor. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 08 2010 at 9:03am
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no Squeem--I talked privately with a Councilmember who verified that the building re-hab funding was coming from city funds(possibly grants), and was a sizeable amount.
So--the public has skin in this game. Does this mean we get reduced rent? art discounts? a share of reciepts?
What exactly will Mr.Verdin have on the line here?
What more will he ask to be funded by the public?
How much tax $$, income and traffic is this venture estimated to bring in to justify the public cost?
Just exactly what do YOU really know about this project?
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Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Jul 08 2010 at 11:43am
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I don't know any more than what's been in the paper.
interesting to me because the PAC in Ashland KY is in the same block my family owned a men's clothing store for 75 years. if anyone thinks our downtown problems are unique - rest assured, the same stuff is going on in Ashland too - probably worse. good questions spiderjohn - I'm just as curious about it as you are. |
Posted By: Nelson Self
Date Posted: Jul 08 2010 at 12:13pm
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Spider John -
At the time of my resignation in January 2009, the City of Middletown had approximately $300,000 in the so-called UDAG Fund. By way of information, HUD funds were received in the late 1970's and used as a loan to help Wilson Foods (??) expand operations. As the loan was repaid, these funds were given out by the Planning Department for the stained glass operation on Central Avenue, Manchester Inn ($40,000 never repaid), etc. Maybe this money was allocated by Miss Judy and Marty for the PAC??
City of Middletown senior staff has several otherwise unknown sources of HUD funds at their disposal. I know of what I speak.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 08 2010 at 3:07pm
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Thank you for the response, Mr.Self.
Wilson Foods(RIP) replaced Mr.Moneysworth, which replaced Larry's Foods, which replaced Fazio/Rink's Supermarket in the location now functioning as Meander Thrift Shop on Roosevelt Blvd.
Tough business---now even harder than b4.
Once again--I am all for the new business in the area, and many others.
I love art--my home is filled with interesting pieces.
I would love to see the area move successfully in that direction, anmd I would love to be a part of it all(especially if someone else is paying for my project).
Still--we can't afford basic responsibilities in this community at this time, and in no way should the city be subsidizing this venture to a major degree. It is probably time for Council/Admin to lay out exactly what is going on in that location. From what work is being done and how it is being funded. What will transpire after the building modifications, and exactly who will have what stake in the project, along with what conditions must be met to justify the public expense so far and probably in the future.
Great topic for the next Council forum.
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Posted By: Nelson Self
Date Posted: Jul 08 2010 at 3:47pm
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Spider John -
There are reputable Middletonians who served on the former HUD Community Development Advisory Committee (CDAC) until it was suddenly abolished by Judy G. and Ginger Smith. They included: Paul Renwick, Walter Leap, Robin McNally French, Bert Grimes, Rosa Lean Lindsey, Wanda Glover, Cris Amburgey, etc.
Each of these members were provided with hard copy documentation regarding questionable expenditures of HUD funds and the lack of Housing Rehab Revolving Loan Program loan servicing procedures that led to the loss of nearly $1,000,000.
Thank you for your comments. I know way too much about what went on before my arrival and I assure you that senior staff at One Donham Plaza use insulting comments, etc. about me to shut me up. It won't happen anytime soon. As taxpayers, we all should be incensed by the cavalier waste of Federal funds.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 11 2010 at 6:59am
OK folks, here is another Barn Burning, Pulitzer Prize winning, informative and all telling article by our beloved Journal on The PAC. In other words it says and tells us nothing and asks absolutely zero questions of those "EXCITED OFFICIALS". But hey I have highlighted the important part.
New art studio excites officialsProposed center would enhance local art scene and attract new business, artists say.By Eric Robinette, Staff Writer
12:52 AM Sunday, July 11, 2010
MIDDLETOWN — Middletown has plenty of room for more than one arts center, local arts officials say. Although the city already has the Middletown Arts Center downtown, its executive director, Patt Belisle, would welcome the proposed Pendleton Arts Center, which may arrive a few blocks away this fall at 7 N. Broad St., a city-owned former commercial building that is now vacant. While the Middletown Arts Center offers exhibits and art classes, the Pendleton Arts Center would allow area artists to have studio space — and that could be mutually beneficial, Belisle said. “I believe it will enhance the Middletown Arts Center,” she said. “They’ll have studio space, and that means bringing in artists. Those artists could come over here to instruct.” At the same time, students at the Middletown Arts Center could set up shop in one of the new studios. Jim Verdin, founder of the Pendleton Arts Center, said, “If we have 50 to 100 artists at one time, they could talk to each other and pass information to each other.” Sue Rogers, director of the Art Central Foundation, welcomes the new center, too. The foundation coordinates events like the Main Street Art and Music Festival and summer arts workshops for local school kids. Rogers visits the Pendleton in Cincinnati often. “Because of all the artists located there, galleries pop up and restaurants pop up. It really has done wonders for the area,” Rogers said. Verdin hopes to have the center open by October or November.
Contact this reporter at (513) 705-2836 or erobinette@coxohio.com. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 11 2010 at 7:13am
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Although the city already has the Middletown Arts Center downtown, its executive director, Patt Belisle, would welcome the proposed Pendleton Arts Center, which may arrive a few blocks away this fall at 7 N. Broad St., a city-owned former commercial building that is now vacant.
So Mr. Verdin hasn't purchased the building ? How much money does Middletown now have invested in this project? How much money will Mr. Verdin have invested in this project or if the bussiness fails within the next twelve months can he simply walk away and loose nothing? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 11 2010 at 7:28am
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OK- I applaud the effort here to establish some theme for the downtown area. Yes, it would be nice to see some artzy type activity developing in an otherwise desolate area. I'm happy that all of these artzy people are excited about the thought of this happening.
BUT....... do they really think that a few arts centers/studios where "they will gather and talk to each other and share information" will be the saving grace for the downtown? Restaurants will follow ehh? And how'd the 59 Degrees or Quiznos work out downtown? In order for these proposed restaurants to MAINTAIN a customer base in sufficient numbers to KEEP them in business, I would think there would have to be other customer base sources other than the artzy crowd. Right now, and without attractions OTHER THAN the arts, what would that be? This whole artzy thing that some of them are wetting their britches over is a nice thing, but it can't be the main theme for downtown development and people attraction. The artzy scene just doesn't attract enough of the population to warrant the expectation of large numbers of people populating this area on a consistent basis. That "main attraction" need would better be filled by a 24/7 casino operation (s)which will benefit the artzy thing (as a secondary interest) by providing potential customers on an on-going basis.(THEN, stick the Quiznos and 59 Degree businesses down there) Plenty of customers then. JMO |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jul 11 2010 at 8:23am
WOW!!! This artsy stuff must be HOT, HOT, HOT!!! It's raised the temperature of the wine by THREE DEGREES (from 56 to 59) already!!!  ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jul 11 2010 at 9:03am
On a more serious note, ya gotta question Ms. Rogers' contention that:
If one asks Google maps about "dining" near the Pendleton Art Center, Cincinnati, one will find extremely few establishments within an area the size of the former downtown Middletown.
But don't believe me!!! See for yourself!!! http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=pendleton%20art%20center&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl - http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=pendleton%20art%20center&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl
Adjust the map to the 1000' scale and you will find that there are only TWO restaurants within a thousand feet (three, IF you count GLI Food services--the lunch counter at the Greyhound Bus Terminal-- YUM...can't wait to sample that cuisine...Got change for a $10, Ms. Rogers??? The vending machines won't take them.)
BTW, 1,000' is about the distance from Broad, west on Central to the Canal; or East on Central to Curtis. We already HAVE three reastaurants within the same distance!!! (The Manchester, Buck's, and the lunch counter at OUR city bus station!!!)
There are NO other "art galleries" within 1,000' of PAC Cinci. Middletown already has TWO.
Sorry Ms. Rogers, but this quick study seems to have shown that, not only have the galleries and restaurants that had "popped up" near PAC, Cinci already "popped down", but also that the much smaller former downtown Middletown is already OVER-SATURATED when compared with a similarly sized area immediately around PAC Cinci. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 31 2010 at 7:22am
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Well, well, well, it seems Mr. Self hit the nail on the head again. Posted: Spider John - At the time of my resignation in January 2009, the City of City of PURPOSE Authorize the City Manager to enter into a contract for Development with BACKGROUND and FINDINGS This project consists of selling real property owned by the City located at PAC to provide for the development of an art gallery/art studio and associated entertainment, recreational, and food service activities. The City will provide a loan to PAC in the amount of $200,000 from UDAG Funds for interior improvements and the City will make certain repairs and improvements to the property estimated to cost approximately $250,000. It is important to note that a number of the repairs being made by the City would be required for any reuse of the building. ALTERNATIVES Do not proceed with the project. FINANCIAL IMPACT The City will use UDAG and Downtown Funds to support the project which will promote economic development in opportunities and increasing the number of people living, working and visiting the downtown area. EMERGENCY/NON-EMERGENCY First Reading RECOMMENDATION Authorize Contract for Development with Staff recommends approval of the authorization to contract with ATTACHMENTS Contract for |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jul 31 2010 at 8:04am
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Whoa, Nelly!!!
Am I hearing this correctly??? This is coming up for a first reading on August 3 and for action on August 17, but the money is ALREADY BEING SPENT??????
Is THAT what I am hearing?????????????? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 31 2010 at 8:29am
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"(f) In order to facilitate the Improvements required by this Section, the City agrees to provide financing to assist the construction of the Improvements in an amount up to, but not to exceed Two Hundred Thousand Dollars ($200,000.00) from Federal UDAG funds (hereinafter the “Loan”). Loan funds must be used by Developer to construct the Improvements required by this Section. The Loan shall be evidenced by a promissory note in a form acceptable to the City. The Loan and promissory note shall be secured by a first mortgage on the Property in favor of the City. The Loan shall be for a term of ten (10) years. The Loan shall be interest free, non-recourse and forgivable; each full year during which the completed Project is in operation shall reduce the principal amount of the Loan by ten percent (10%). The Loan may be fully forgiven. If the Developer ceases operation of the Project during the term of the Loan, ownership of the Property shall revert to the City and the Developer shall vacate the premises within thirty (30) days of request by the City to do so." |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 31 2010 at 8:32am
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"(1) Sale and Purchase. The City agrees to sell and the Developer agrees to purchase the Property for the purchase price of One Dollar ($1.00) and the additional consideration as set forth in paragraph (a)(2) below, (collectively hereinafter called the “Purchase Price”), to be paid in cash, or by certified or cashier’s check, payable to the City simultaneously with delivery of the deed." |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 31 2010 at 8:54am
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"Developer’s obligation to purchase the Property shall be contingent upon Developer obtaining title insurance or report of a title examination, in the discretion of the Developer, which discloses good and marketable title to the Property in the name of the City, free and clear of all claims, liens or encumbrances and permitting Developer’s intended use which is an art gallery/art studio, subject only to the following “Exceptions”: (i) Any ordinance, municipal regulations, zoning or public law; (ii) Easements, restrictions, rights of way and conditions of record which do not, in Developer’s reasonable opinion, adversely impact Developer’s intended use of the Property; (iii) Installments of real estate taxes and assessments, both general and special, all liens upon the property, but not yet due and payable; (iv) Any mortgages or other monetary liens on the Property at closing which will be discharged by City on the Closing Date." According to Sheriff's sales docs amount owned on the property at the time of sale was about $156,000.00 in liens, taxes, Court fees, etc. when the city purchased the property. Did the City pay these fees or were most of them waived when the city bought the property on April 9, 2010 at Sheriff Sale. Butler County values this property at over $700,000.00 in 2009.Conveniently the paperwork listing what repairs the City must make to the property is unavailable for the Council Meeting.
Seems odd the Citizens can't get a deal on anything in this city, from having to pay for Public Curb, Gutter and Sidewalk repairs to infrastructure maintenance. Yet someone can walk into this city on a hope and a prayer and get about $1,150,000.00+/- in free money and a building from the city to build an Art Center.....absolutely amazing.
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Posted By: Nelson Self
Date Posted: Jul 31 2010 at 6:15pm
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Pacman -
Sad to say, it makes one wonder just how much that the City cares about local businesses such as yours, Spider John's, etc. I sure looks like one must be an out-of-town entrepreneur in order to be handed the keys to the city as well as access to its' pocketbook.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Aug 01 2010 at 8:24am
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From Classifieds in Cincy.
"I have a studio inside of the Pendleton Art Center and looking for artists/crafters that want to display their work for Final fridays and second look saturdays every month. We usually have a minimum of 700 visitors each month that visit to look and purchase artwork. Get ahold of me and we can meet up and you can see the space and we will go from there. 513-485-7090."
Question with a population of about 350k and 700 visitors a month. How many visitors a month can a PAC in Middletown expect at a population about 1/7th of Cincy's and declining?
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Aug 01 2010 at 5:44pm
Well, Pacman, that ought to be easy enough to figure out. You just need to put the figures into "the formula"!!! Let’s see…42% from right here in the immediate area, plus 17% who will travel at least an hour to see the wonderful art…carry the one…factor in the 12% who will come from out of state…multiply by the age of an old art critic… Yep, that’s it!! It comes up to over 60,000 people who will show up here every week to spend about $3.2 million in Middletown to enjoy the work of our new art colony!!! Figures don’t lie!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: angelababy
Date Posted: Aug 15 2010 at 10:22pm
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Isn't One in Middletown going to be awful close to the Cincy one and if I was a starving artist I would probably rent space in Cincy figuring there are more art buyers in Cincy then there are in Middletown. The idea of trying to get Middletown to be a fancy, upscale, "cultural" city just doesn't fit the "climate" of the town.I don't see restaurants and supporting businesses opening to support what will more likely be 50 or more likely less starving artists. ------------- Welcome to my paintings website - http://www.wholesaleartmall.com - Wholesale Art Mall . |
Posted By: angelababy
Date Posted: Sep 15 2010 at 1:56am
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I don't see restaurants and supporting businesses opening to support what will more likely be 50 or more likely less starving artists. I also don't see supporting businesses opening to support an art community which is open to the Public maybe 10-15 hrs. ------------- Welcome to my paintings website - http://www.wholesaleartmall.com - Wholesale Art Mall . |
Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Oct 03 2010 at 8:04am
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given what the Journal is reporting today about the Ashland PAC http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/kentucky-artists-excited-for-city-959526.html still wondering if the nattering nabobs are just as certain that the PAC is a condemnable act by local government or a reasonable partnership with folks who actually do things instead of just talk. |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 03 2010 at 8:28am
The only nattering nabobs here is you. I did not nor do I think anyone else here condemned the PAC. What they were against was the Taxpayers funding the project. A project which they even admitted was not viable if they had to pay for Capital improvements and rent on the building.
I could care less if the private sector wants to enter into such an endeavor.
On another note what exactly have you done for the community lately other than come here and try to insult people.
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Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Oct 03 2010 at 8:42am
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thanks wasteful that's one vote for "still certain" anyone else? |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 03 2010 at 10:08am
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Hey Squeem--I hope that this thing works!
Mr.Verdin seems to be the best thing we have going, in that he has successfully implemented his concept elsewhere. Al ya need to do is look around the formerly downtown area to clearly realize that the cityCouncil, Admin and those immediate area businesses haven';t been able to make anything happen. The area has regressed, offers less options than ever b4, and has been allowed to stay filthy(by the property owners who say that they care so much!
The taxpayer funding and property giveaway was flat-out a bad decision, and pretty much everyone realizes that now. It certified all surrounding properties as being virtually worthless. I was ready to buy one of them, however why should I pay a substantial price when ther city is giving things away?
Why take shots at the posters here?
They didn't create the area mess--totally done by Council,Admin, the long-time wealthy property owners and our disfunctional ED Dept.
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Posted By: jag123
Date Posted: Oct 03 2010 at 10:24am
| Did I miss something in today's article about how much Ashland gave Verdin to open there? I don't remember seeing a number. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 03 2010 at 12:00pm
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lol mtown--u r so predictable and easy!
[P Facts being:
I walk the area regularly and have looked at quite a few properties because I really want to be a part of something down there.
[ All that ya really have to do is look at the total area, think back to the tens of millions of $$ wasted over the last 40 years to really ? the direction and consistency of our city planning. It all falls into the lap of Commissions,Councils,Admins and the key property owners who have controlled every decision and $ spent in the area. The Lewis Group seems to be a strong local entity moving in the right direction. I expect them to continue improving the area. They seem to be wonderful people.
This mess was hardly caused by the average citizen, or those using the govt.services and living in the area,. ACF and MAMF have tried many cool projects, with little having any stay power. As I mentioned prior, Mr.Verdin may well be our best hope. I would like to meet him and work with him.
None of this waste was caused by anything posted on MUSA, and this forum may well lead to common sense improvements and overall total community benefit.
I want it all to work properly, and to benefit everyone, instead of a select few property owners deserate to protect their investments,. I care far more than you credit me.and most prople realize just that.
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Posted By: accuro
Date Posted: Oct 03 2010 at 12:06pm
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Comparing Asland to Middletown;s surrounding area is comapring an apple to cavier. No comparison. Anyone who knows anything about the 40 mile radius of Ashland knows the next closet "civilized" community is in Wheeling, or Potsmouth, hardly comparable to West Chester, Indian Hills, Montgomery, Hyde Park, Clifton, Mount Adams. The difference is Ashland has a few Dollar Generals, Walmarts, KMarts, and lots of farmland and rural areas in between. Middletown has 30 minutes of major shopping and other "destinations" which will compete with this. Other than the local few whom think they are Ross Perot, litt Big Men, there won't be sufficient traffic nor buyers. An initial sampling, perhaps, then the well goes dry. So the local traffic is goig to support this? Don't think so. Think those within 45 minutes will support this? Don't think so. Middletown is a destiantion for one reason, curiousity to see a city on is death bed, just like Solid Rock was an attraction for its Jesus statute after bing struck. ------------- An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out. - Will Rogers |
Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Oct 03 2010 at 1:06pm
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I wonder if anyone noticed in the MJ article this morning entitled KENTUCKY ARTISTS EXCITED FOR CITY that an artist and native of Ashland said:
“It’s tough to get it started, but once it gets going it’s really great. We still have people who don’t know we exist here,” Osborne said. This is five years later.
I wonder if anyone noticed at the last council meeting that the rule of WE'RE NOT SET-UP TO ANSWER QUESTIONS" was finally ignored. Democracy for a change.
I wonder if anyone noticed that there are gas lines going through sewer lines all over the city. Ask your plumber.
Paul Nagy
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Posted By: angelababy
Date Posted: Oct 28 2010 at 10:42pm
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I think the information that is was in the paper is reversed - you have a
successful studio near an already established tourist area. Not a
studio bringing in business to establish a community.
------------- Welcome to my paintings website - http://www.wholesaleartmall.com - Wholesale Art Mall . |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 08 2010 at 7:02am
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From today's Journal...
"Verdin's company ended up BUYING an eight story building that had been a factory in Over-The Rhine." BUYING, not having it given to them and rehabbed for them as in Middletown. Why didn't he buy Middletown's building? "Now, Verdin stands to make an even more resounding impression in Middletown via his fourth Pendleton Art Center, which is slated to at least partly open by the end of the year." Wonder how many spaces Verdin has rented? "Slated to at least PARTIALLY open"...thought it was due to open by the end of the year??? Article states that the general consensus is that Middletown is a dead city in the opinion of some of the surrounding communities. No surprise there, right? Verdin makes the suggestion that his art venture could have enticed Cinci State to come to town. He comments on the success of his arts venture in Ashland creating the anchor for bringing back life to the downtown there. Anyone been to Ashland? Is his view of the success of the Ashland downtown accurate? Was it as devastated as the Middletown downtown is now when he started there? According to angelbaby's post above, his arts center came in AFTER the downtown was already established. Guess we give it time and see what happens. |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 08 2010 at 10:21am
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 08 2010 at 11:54am
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Though it was to open in November 2010 for the Christmas shoppers.??? |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 08 2010 at 12:11pm
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^^
Supposed to be open in time for the Santa Parade/Holiday Affair on the Square Thanksgiving weekend.
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Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Nov 08 2010 at 1:34pm
| whenever I drive by I don't see any work vehicles. So I'm not sure how it will be ready any time soon. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 2:13pm
Wow, this Verdin Arts Center gets more bizarre as time passes. Now, Verdin wants to place 200 brightly colored car hoods on the Pendleton Center, procured from Cohen Brothers.  The idea was submitted today with Marty Kohler saying......
"The project first must receive approval from the city’s Council of Landmark and Historic District, because the Pendleton is located in “architectural district.” Kohler said. I didn't know that that area of downtown was an "architectural district" Marty! And pray tell, what constitutes an "architectural district"? or did you just pull a rabbit out of your hat again, Bullwinkle.
Verdin says..“It sounds a little goofy. With any piece of work of art, you’re not going to get 100 percent of people liking it. But you might get 50-50, which is great, because they’ll talk about it,” he said. Ya think? So 200 car hoods painted bright colors is deemed art? Really? City Manager Judy Gilleland said of the project, “The idea that Mr. Verdin came up with sounds like a really creative solution to adorning the Pendleton building and drawing attention in other parts of the state and country.” Wow Judy.....creative or absurdly tacky? How about a rattlesnake ranch with the world's largest ball of twine? Or some dinosaur statues like Pee Wee's Big Adventure to draw 'em downtown? How about some giraffe's like Traders World has? IMO...Tacky, cheap, and goes along with the image city leaders are trying their best to create for this town......a huge flea market/traveling circus environment. Anyone agree or am I missing some "artistic value" in doing this? I see this as being the talk of the area ala Touchdown Jesus and the talk won't necessarily be flattering about the town. Gilleland and company want to put something like this up on a building, but they object to banners and sizes of signs on existing businesses??? What the he--! |
Posted By: Rhodes
Date Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 2:38pm
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Agree VietVet, I couldn't believe what I was reading. All I could think of was Sanford & Son. Of all the things Middletown could known for, car hoods is not one of them. It's going to be from Cohen Bros.?, so that means it won't be exotic car hoods, it means it will be nothing but junkers. What a joke. I hope it gets approved just so I can see how bad it will look in person.
Based on the architect's theory of Middletown being a steel town and that's why he came up with car hoods, why not cover the building with toasters, refrigerators, washer/dryer doors, etc. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 2:58pm
Hey, great brainstorming Rhodes!!  To expand on the Sanford & Sons thing, they could place loudspeakers on the arts center and play the San. & Son theme and have Lamont drive the beat-up old pickup in on opening day. Heck, why quit there, the arts center could include clowns (selected from the city leaders doing balloon art for the kids), face painting and the return of the Girls Gone Wild Tour Bus with a kazoo band as musical entertainment. That oughta give the town a new identity....one that will be remembered for years by the surrounding towns.  I'm sure West Chester or Mason would have come up with the same ideas if it were their city being selected by Verdin. Think they would allow this car hood thing, given the types of communities they are?
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Posted By: Nick_Kidd
Date Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 5:46pm
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Maybe they could buy the whole junker. After removing the hoods for mounting they could surround the building with the rest of the junkers up on blocks. That would match the rest of the "improvements" that have been made downtown recently. ------------- Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem. |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 8:53pm
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Did you all see the rendering or are you basing your comments on what you read?
The Journal did have an rendering. I didn't know what to make of it at first. There were parts of the design I liked--such as the the second floor gathering area with all glass windows. Very cool. Very cool too are the exposed windows on the second floor that are currently hidden. As for the hoods. Not sure how I feel. It's certainly "interesting." I can see how it could be perceived as junky. But also as an artistic flair to what is a pretty boring building. Then I was reminded of the following: http://www.heidelberg.org Never seen it. Heard lots about it from people who have. It's gained national attention. Perhaps Verdin is trying to do the same with this design. Credit him for at least thinking outside the box in considering it. Still, not sure I love it. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 9:15pm
| This is actually a good idea. Its all centered around 'buzz', just what pr folks get paid to create. They'll have lots of tv coverage, youtube, maybe national coverage, with the hoods, maybe even painted (lets hope so). Can't say I can see art being a big hit when there are so many quality artists and reproductions you can buy all over the tri county area, but maybe they can bring some bluegrass area artists up who make ducimers or appalachian pieces that will be a hit. Although quite tacky to see hoods adorn the building, good way to get free advertisement. First budget item cut in a company in bad times is pr/ communications, and in a sour economy, can't see volumes of $$$ spent on art. What if a hood falls off the building, will the city say it has no responsibilty for damages as they do destructive potholes. Can't wait for the youtube show of Middletown's hoods. I have heard rumors if this works, they will move the exhibit out to 75 as the new "gateway" for the city---car hoods hanging off the overpass, instead of Union Centre UC), multi cooled car hoods. |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 9:56pm
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If a bunch of ugly car hoods appear in downtown, and no one sees them, are they really offensive? |
Posted By: SupportMiddletown
Date Posted: Nov 09 2010 at 10:22pm
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Cool idea.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 1:58am
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The convoluted logic of City Hall, and especially Mr. Kohler, never ceases to amaze me!!! Does anyone else find it ironic that, for enterprises that are actually in the legitimate business of selling used auto hoods, it is ILLEGAL in Middletown for them to be displayed in this manner!!! To paraphrase George Orwell: ALL BUSINESSES ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME BUSINESSES ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS. Will this qualify for a “historic façade” grant??? We taxpayers might as well pay for this, too. I wonder what Mr. Kohler (or some of the other local PAC supporters) would have to say if auto salvage yards attempted to display this type of “art” in front of their businesses??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Rhodes
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 4:21am
| LOL Presta. You're right, it is illegal. It's definitely going to be something to get used to. I wouldn't mind some junk piled on the outside if it looked cool in the end. I wish they went the route of the Walt Disney Concert Hall in LA. That's a really cool use of steel. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 4:22am
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Yep...that’s just what downtown Well I think I will need to add one of those big square cubes of junk that comes from the crusher and place it on the corner and call it "The Rust Belt". Yep...It’s a shame Mrs. Mulligan won't be able to see the new PAC building from her front porch. |
Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 4:47am
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You..just..have..to..love..that..Kentucky..humor..that..Miss..Vivian..shares..with..us..from..time..to..time. Thanks..for..helping..us..to..keep..a..smile..on..our..faces..in..this..oft-times..difficult..world.
Long..live..Miss..Beattyville!
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 4:49am
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So--if this wierdness is approved, does this mean that I can hang a professionally-made Pepsi advertisement sign on my property, or do I first need to add "/Art Gallery" to the name of my businesses?
I don't care what the PAC does down there as long as other businesses are equally free to "express themselves".
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 5:21am
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Well Spider since I'm an artsy kinda person I think we could get a twenty foot pole and dangel a few hundred Pepsi cans from it in front of your business and the City would see what a real art lover you really are. I can hardly wait to see what kind of art work Auto Zone will display in front of their business. Yep I can see that I will need to set up my old drafting board and dust off the old sketch book cause my business is going to boom. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 6:40am
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acclaro- good idea with the car hoods hanging from the overpass! I would like to suggest that after the ramps are in place, along with the car hoods, place the half-buried Cadillacs in a row along side the ramps with business signs attached. Kinda like the old Burma Shave signs along the roads back in the day. Hopefully, the water fountain will have something spiffy to offer for people to notice? If they do the car hood and Cadillac ideas, this "gateway" thing Kohler has come up with is going to enhance the Middletown entrance just as West Chester's Union Centre entry has and will be just as professional looking too, I'm sure. I would go as far as to say that Union Centre will look a little "dull" compared to our entryway.
Yeah, acclaro, it will receive alot of coverage all right. The wrong kind of coverage, remininscent of the You Tube Laura Williams/ Schiavone fiasco that is a testiment to the kind of "Deliverance" mentality we sometimes see in this town. Nothing like having a backwater reputation with the surrounding cities and then proving it with this kind of crap. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 6:48am
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Can you imagine Mr.Kohler's/Admin/Council's response if this idea originated from Richie's Pawn Shop, a gold re-seller or a junkyard?
Wow--over a million $$ of taxpayer $$ spent toward PAC to start a viable business with employees , revenue and subsequent feeder businesses, and all we will get so far is a display of junker car hoods? Is this display how our tax $$ will be used?
Let Mr.Verdin "decorate" the I-75 gateway--I like that idea!
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 7:00am
No you may not hang Pepsi signs on YOUR property, Mr. Spider. At least not without the approval of the Council of Landmark and Historical District, Mr. Kohler and Miss Judy's approval. Keep in mind, your stores must be in an "architectural district" as Mr. Kohler has stated, and to gain Miss Judy's approval, your Pepsi signs must have really creative solutions to adorn your buildings and they must draw attention to other parts of the state and country, whatever the he-- that means????  According to the article, Kohler must be convinced that you have a well-thought out plan for approval. There was also something about the city manager having a gleem in her eye about the idea too. If she ain't got that, forget it mister.  We can't go willy-nilly letting legitimate, long-established business owners "express themselves" by putting up anything that would construe helping their business without getting the proper approval like this Verdin car hood idea is doing now. They're doing it by the book. No room for independent, renegade business people in Mr.Kohler's world bud.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 7:27am
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All true, Vet---HOWEVER
Since my businesses are located in areas that are pretty much "history" as far as business conditions and ED/Admin support, I would take Ms.Moon's excellent suggestion to adorn these signs with old Pepsi cans, expressing artistic creativity with a gleam in my eye, and also surely the eyes of my neighbors.
My well-thought out business plan is to bring more customers into my busInesses(which are actually OPEN and with EMPLOYEES--ALL OF WHOM PAY TAXES ON PURCHASES) and actually sell more Pepsi!
Then again--maybe I can feed off of all the locals and out-of-town visitors headed to the former downtown area to do their holiday shopping at the various unique assortment of "artsy" options(along with a $6 cup of foofoo coffee of course!).
Tax $$ to put up car hoods on a business exterior instead of creating viable retail options and jobs.
Hmmm..........
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Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 7:59am
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when I first read about the PAC's "Hoods in the 'Hood" concept, it reminded me of Cadillac Ranch - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Ranch - car parts in the desert. A desert is the right metaphor here for this one too. Also reminds me of Marshall McLuhan: "art is whatever you can get away with calling art" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan Go for it Verdin! Art should be controversial. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 10:09am
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squeemy says "art should be controversial". Yes, and it should also contain just a semblence of class, taste and decorum too, shouldn't it? This car hood thing doesn't fit into any of those descriptors does it? Guess "early junky flea-market" art makes the grade here in this town. Certainly goes along with their town destroying theme of a "once vibrant industrial steel town turned poor appalachian welfare ghetto slum in just 30 years" Haven't done it lately.....but, Thank you for that, past and current city leaders! Hey
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Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 11:27am
An early Veteran's Day salute to Viet Vet plus others of us who served our country.
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Posted By: FmrMidE
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 1:35pm
| At least it will provide a landmark for the Cincy State students (both of them, at best)-"Look for the vertical junkyard and you're in the right area!" |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 1:55pm
If this is what you get in Middletown for $1 million plus, someone needs to be fired:
 http://www.panhandlebandshell.com/ - http://www.panhandlebandshell.com/
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 2:39pm
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Since the city doesn't object to the PAC car hood idea does that mean that the 4 ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 3:03pm
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Thank you Nelson for the veteran acknowledgement. I would imagine there are others here that deserve your acknowledgement also. I remember a time 40 years ago when being a GI wasn't cool- actually we were hated by some. Still having a tough time with the loose use of the word "Hero" all the time now. To me, a hero is a Medal Of Honor recipient. A person who laid his life down to save his buddies. The way they use the word now, EVERYONE is a hero- GI's, firemen, police... hell, go to work and you're a hero now.....no......you are not a hero by merely doing your everyday job...ya gotta do something.....lets see......um....HEROIC to earn the moniker. Everytime people throw out the word hero, they lessen the impact of the deeds done by the Medal of Honor winners.
Now, on to Hermes. I will tell you the same thing I told the Spider about his Pepsi signs on his business properties. Are your cars parked in an "architectural district". Probably not. Did you submit to the grand poobah of Planning- Marty Eugene Kohler, a business plan of how you wished to display those junker cars as they are parked in your driveway? Probably not. Did you approach the Council on Historical Landmarks for approval. Probably not. Did you get that approving "gleem" look from Judy Gilleland signifying her support for your junkers parked? Probably not. Then what makes you think that you can call your junkers- aka "artful cars", legitimate pieces of artwork? You certainly don't have Verdin's insight as to what constitutes art like, say, brightly painted car hoods standing tall on a building. How dare you step on the toes of our artzy bretheran who really know their car hoods, mister.
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Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 4:39pm
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Just a question or two. Why can't this city just be normal or I would settle for Quasi Normal in doing business and improving the City? Why must it always be off the wall crap for which we end up footing the bill for?
You would think this city would have learned by now from its many past goof ball projects not to do something that is so out of the norm when you are trying to revive your city. But they never learn each project becomes more ridicules than the last one.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 5:36pm
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but… Let’s put this into perspective: If you want to have aluminum or vinyl siding professionally installed on your home, that would be considered tacky by most of these “art patrons” and would also be ILLEGAL in the city or Middletown. However, if you want to use “multicolor car hoods from junk yards for siding” in the Downtown historic district and you get a certificate of appropriateness from the Historic Commission, that makes it a “work of art”. Also, does anyone remember the criticism of the brightly colored storefronts on Central Avenue as being “tacky” (and worse)??? But now “multicolor car hoods from junk yards for siding” will be a thing of great beauty. Amazing, simply amazing!!!------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 6:21pm
| If the Historic commission allows this to go through how could they turn down anyone's outrageous request in the future or even a modest request for that matter? |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Nov 10 2010 at 6:32pm
| my concern is that, even if this is thought to bring some attention to the center and a little "wow, that's kinda cool" that it will fade quickly once the novelty wears off and it ends up looking ridiculous after awhile. Can't they just hang some cool murals up on the outside or hire that Franklin painter who did the TV Middletown building? |