Conversation With a Council Member
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3535
Printed Date: May 13 2024 at 6:35pm
Topic: Conversation With a Council Member
Posted By: randy
Subject: Conversation With a Council Member
Date Posted: Dec 14 2010 at 4:18pm
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I had a phone conversation with Vice Mayor Scott- Jones yesterday and I am sad to say that she has informed me that she will no longer take part in responding to questions asked of her on MUSA. She feels lines were crossed and things were said about her on a personal level. When I first meet Mrs. Scott-Jones and asked her to join us here and hear what the citizens had to say about decisions being made by council, she agreed and was the first and most frequent sitting council member to come to MUSA and answer questions. I am sorry that she has made the choice to no longer take part. I did explain to her that things are said in the heat of the moment and that people are aggravated by the things council are doing. From the PAC deal, Anita and I had become friends over the years, friends aside I take this site and the right of the people to say what they feel, within the rules of the site very serious. I just wanted to inform all of you that do not expect her to return any time soon. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Replies:
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Dec 14 2010 at 6:04pm
| And how many times did we all hear during council meetings words to the affect of, "I don't care what people have to say or think". Those were Mrs Scott-Jones famous last words over and over again. I think lines are crossed many times in this city, but that hasn't stopped many of us from posting. If you are that thinned skinned maybe it is time to get out of the game. Obviously she did care and can't handle some who may cross the line in disagreeing with her. |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Dec 14 2010 at 7:16pm
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Years ago someone in the public eye could avoid most criticism that wasn't in the newspaper. Now with websites and blogs the temptation to check out what is being said is hard to ignore.
It's unfortunate that she won't respond anymore. I will say she is a fine, dedicated member of council but think she creates some of her own problems with a frosty, demanding attitude toward people during council meetings as well as airing some of her own dirty laundry and problems when no one asked. That laundry later gets thrown back in her face.
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Posted By: Smartman
Date Posted: Dec 14 2010 at 7:17pm
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How right you are Wasteful. She does not like people disagreeing with her. I was not going to comment but saw this first hand. It was a major retailer here in town. I was behind her in line at the customer service counnter and she did not get her way. She said to the clerk " Its obvious you do not know who I am! I am the Vice mayor of Middletown" Trying to throw her title around. Then she said Im going to call the Middletown Journal and report this lack of customer service.
Special treatment because you are Vice Mayor Ms. Jones? Really?? You are no better than AJ Smith. You need to go too!! Bye Bye Now!!!! ------------- |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Dec 14 2010 at 7:45pm
| Liked Ms. Scott-Jones. Liked the way she asked questions and had the mini-battles with many on council about a variety of topics. I still think she is a breath of fresh air compared to Becker, Mulligan, Picard, or Allen. Perhaps that's not really saying alot. At least she didn't appear aloof on a consistent basis as they seem to do. Disagreed with some of her thinking on certain topics. She was always willing to talk to you. Let you have your say, then responded. Still, at times, if she wanted to play the role of representing the common citizen, would like to have had her offer more information to those common citizens for our understanding as to why the decisions were made as they were. She, along with Mr. Laubach, would have been a nice resource in the fight against the camp hell-bent on ruining this city, including the above-mentioned council members. Even though she has chosen not to participate here any longer, I do hope she continues her inquisitive nature on council. Perhaps someday, the truth about all that is hidden now, will be revealed by an honest group of people on council, instead of what we have now. |
Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Dec 14 2010 at 9:18pm
| I say don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out. |
Posted By: Mtown
Date Posted: Dec 14 2010 at 9:54pm
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Another example how the MiddletownUSA regulars are focused on tearing the community apart for their own misguided personal gratification.
Businesses should boycott advertising on this site. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Dec 14 2010 at 10:02pm
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Mtown, why dont you boycott this site please!!! ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 6:30am
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I've grown to respect and support Josh Laubach because of his integrity, courage as well as fiscal responsibility.
This isn't true of three past members who exploited (not helped) city staff who tried to expose waste and mismanagement.
Their primary objectives were were mostly about ousting two high-ranking city staff and not to address millions in lost funds.
Then, there's a current member who betrayed the confidence of city staff who was being forced out because they knew too many secrets.
Stay the course, Josh! Your one bright ray of hope in an otherwise dark, dismal sky hovering over all of us.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 6:45am
Here we go again with Mtown. Always trying to poke the bear through the bars aren't you? How about using the same line from Mtown and putting a different spin on it. "Another example how the city leaders are focused on tearing the community apart for their own personal anti-citizen agenda/misguided personal gratification." Amazing how you, Mtown, can look at the same situation and end up with a 180 degree view of what is happening. I know you don't know how to respond to questions, but here's one for you anyway. Is there ANYTHING the city leaders have done in the last 5 years, that you have disagreed with? Demolition perhaps? The train (that ain't coming now) land acquisitions? The business on the Vail alley that was to move to Central and the price paid to move that business + the questionable overpricing of that building? The lack of jobs, the poor roads, the cluster out by I-75? How about this Cincy State deal and the high risk it carries for the city should it fail? How about the freebie given to Verdin? Anything that frosts your monkey? OR, is it you really don't care one way or the other about the city, but rather, you are here just to cause a reaction and aggravate the MUSA folks? Do you have any intention of actually participating in a real discussion, or are you content to aggravate and offer little to nothing here? If you really believe the city is correct, offer your opinions and I'm sure you will find an ample number of people here that will participate with more than adequate data to back up their side of the story. "Businesses should boycott this site" Nope, ain't gonna happen. Did you notice the number of members. That number has grown over the last 2 years and almost doubled. More factual reading here than the Journal. Not influenced by the city leaders here, unlike the Journal which constantly lays down and prints what they are told to print. The truth is, that as the word spreads about this site, people will get information here that they would never have gotten from the Journal. This site has become the new Journal as to what is really happening in this city and as the new member numbers grow, the site will become even more influential, especially with all the anger building with city government/city leaders. We will all watch the numbers grow. You can either join us, or stay with the eventual losers living at the city building. It is a matter of time before they hit the wall of reality. JMO |
Mtown wrote:Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 7:10am
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Mtown, Neil Barille, Murdock, Etc. --
Are you too quick in spewing negatives at MiddletownUSA contributors without knowing all of the facts first.
Do you have a tendency to criticize/belittle average Middletonians who are frustrated by local government?
Have you taken a look at recent and upcoming residential Butler County Tax Sale offerings lately?
Are you apprised of the multitudes of vacant, foreclosed residential properties still on the market?
What research have you done about time of residential listings on the market plus property value trends?
Please elaborate how the city's expenditure of $2,144,000+ in NSP funds are rejuvinating the housing market?
Only verifiable, market-based residential data is requested in your awaited responses!
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Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 7:30am
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Nelson, the more you post robotically about NSP "waste", the more we see why you were fired. |
Posted By: Mtown
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 8:38am
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Nelson Himself
Is Barille correct? Were you fired? Is that why you are so obsessed with the NSP program? |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 9:06am
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Neil - Mtown,
Nelson has more integrety in one hand then either of the 2 of you put together. He spoke about what was going on instead of being a robot and agreeing with everything. Something I would doubt that the 2 of you would even understand. I would much rather sleep at night knowing I stood up for the right.
As for Anita - Like any public figure there is going to be as many that despise you as like you. You have to be thick skinned. I must say, I appreciate the questions you ask, sometimes agree with you, sometimes don't. By not posting because someone took a low jab at you is letting them win - you are better then that.
Just like now - I am sure that Neil or Mtown will say something back at me for defending Nelson - but consider the source. They won't bother me at all.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 9:12am
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As for Ms. Jones, I really don't mind her taking her opinions and communications and moving it elsewhere. I have seen too many rolling eyes when Larry Mulligan speaks, and a degree of pontification on other matters. I view her nothing more than a city council person, elected to serve the people. If true what was stated above about an incident, all I can sayI personally, would be quite embarrassed to state to anyone I was a council man or woman, a city employee, or a Vice Maypr. These positions are "rodney Dangerfeld's"- they get no respect.
As for Mtown's post on Nelson Self, from my recollection Mtown, Mr. Self was forecd out of the position by revealing mismanagement, waste, and what has the underpinning of a "whistle blower". Under such consequence, he would be protected under Ohio law associated with whistle blwoing andretaliation in direct contradiction to public policy.
He should contact Ann Lugbill, a UVa law grad, who does extensive work in qui tam federal corruption and farud, including medicare/ medicaid. I suepect Mr. Self is not the first in the nation to be "down-sized", let go, terminated, or fired under a retalitory act. I have no facts, but that is my recollection of events as conveyed.
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Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 10:18am
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Neal Barille and Mtown --
Tell us how the city's expenditure of $2,144,000+ in NSP funds are rejuvinating the housing market?
No character defamations; verifiable, market-based residential data is requested from your replies!
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 11:04am
| Nelson you know as well as I do that using $2.144 Million dollars in NSP funds to buy and rehab 15-20 houses is not going to revive the real estate market in Middletown, so why continue to harp on it constantly. As a matter of fact not one Real estate agent that I have talked to is excited about the Middletown market and each has said the Middletown market will probably be the last to have any revival,if it has one at all. |
Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 11:07am
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Motown and Nil-Bore-Eel,
I began working for the city on 1/2/2007.
I inherited a budget where nearly 50% of HUD funds were spent for administration plus program
delivery (HUD term for other administrative costs).
It remained an administratively top-heavy situation until I resigned my position on 1/20/2009.
Note: my supervisor and department head always had the final say on budgets and personnel.
Ginger Smith was named head of the new Community Revitalization Department on 8/15/2008.
From that time until the end of the year her salary/fringe benefits were quietly paid from Public Works
Enterprise Funds!
Beginning 1/2009 her salary/fringe benefits (substantially higher than mine) began being paid out of
HUD funds.
Without a reduction in her staff, this meant that more than 60% of HUD funds would be spent for
administration plus program delivery!
At the time I departed Ginger Smith planned to work two more years before retiring at her significanlty
higher salary.
Only two plus weeks later Doug Adkins was transferred to be her special assistant.
Three weeks after that Ginger Smith suddenly and unexpectedly announced her retirement from city
employment effective the end of March.
Doug Adkins was then named Interim Director of the department and the rest is history.
Only certain senior staff knows all of the hidden details of these backroom personnel manueverings.
My hope is that these city staff will someday soon get a harsh taste of her own reprehensible actions!
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Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 11:40am
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I knew that I could count on you Pacman to post another less than favorable critique of me.
Isn't it you who always reminds us about waste and mismanagement of government funds?
Are you telling us that you're satisfied with the expenditure and impact of NSP-funded activities here?
May I remind you that the city had an alternative HUD-approved plan for using of millions of NSP funds.
It projected 75 purchase/rehab projects instead of only 11 costly purchase/rehab/resale ventures.
Most importantly, it would preclude the city from expanding its' involvement in real estate purchases.
Do I know you? If so, why do you appear to have an axe to grind?
Is your office close to the intersection of Roosevelt and Breiel Boulevard?
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 11:55am
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Nelson it is not a critique. It is a fact that this amount of money and 11 houses is not going to revive the Real estate Market in Middletown. If they had purchased 75 low income houses and moved in 75 low income families the local market still would not have been revived. No matter how you cut it rehabbing 11 homes or 75 or 175 houses when you have 2-3000 houses that need to come down, about 1000 in some state of foreclosure and the rest of the headaches that Middletown is plagued with many which are just glossed over by local leaders and admin, $2.144 Million is a drop in the bucket as far as the amount of money Middletown needs to right itself. No matter how many times you post your NSP tales and complain about me it will not change the facts. Nelson. I have no axe to grind, some of us just get tired of the same old post, when you know most people on here probably have no clue what you are even talking about. Do you know me no. Breiel and Roosevelt no.
Me an axe to grind you have to be kidding. You are the one grinding the axe and by the way if you feel the city had a HUD approved plan for 75 homes and has somehow gone off on their own spending these NSP funds file a complaint with HUD. Bet you find they are within the guidelines as set forth by HUD., but you never know.
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Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 3:14pm
Its no big suprise that she has done this.IMO as soon as she got asst.mayor she went to the dark side.She cares so much about the people of Middletucky.Hogwash.She cares only how she can advance in the political spotlight.Talks from both sides of her mouth.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 4:07pm
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Nelson, it is not a surpise nor shock, anything the city would do albeit underhanded, in their self interest, or unethical wold surprise anyone the the city. You have keen insight, and if I may offer what I can constructively, put Middletown behind you as best you can. There isn't anyone but a select few, who haven't dealt with the "gotcha" mentalility of the city. There is no one in city hall nor council, who is worth having your life any further nagatively impacted. Do some consulting work for a municality, the feds, HUD, as you have enormous knowledge in this area.
As for Ginger Smith, I am uncertain what you are stating. Is it illegal and violation of state statutes to have her move to that position? Was it motivated solely to enhance her retirement, like council did the favor for terribly unqualified Bill Becker, and if so, and I may be misunderstanding your point, but then what you are stating is someone at the city took action, either realied she was over her head, or was not going to allow someone unqulaified to run that department. Or maybe she simply wanted to retire? Or, maybe an internal battle between Mr. Adkins and the legal team against Public Works. I have no idea.
But, for the sake of your continued health, put Middletown behind you. If you have a cause of action, pursuit it. You may be outside the statute of limitations and I've read enough of your scenario to know you feel you were unfairly retaliated, but you hve talents in housing, have recourse if wronged (and within the statute of limitations), and this city is not worth having your blood pressure or mental health and anxiety impacted by those the majority know have caused ruin and destruction to their own personal assets. Middletown will take decades to recover, if it ever does. Ohio also is in dire shape. We all know that.
The recession was the greatest blessing the city workers ever had, but it will be drying up. If you know of specific malfeasance or illegal activities, there are many mechanisms available to report that to those whom will/ would take action.
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Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 4:13pm
Pacman --
I prepared the alternative concept plan and gave it to Ginger Smith 30+ days prior to the HUD grant
submission deadline (late October 2008). It had been reviewed by NSP staff in Washington, D.C. and
determined to be in full compliance with prevailing rules and regulations. Unfortunately, this NSP
concept was ignored with the eventual grant application (prepared by an Illinois-based consultant)
being sent to the Columbus Field Office instead.
The above is yet another example of the city's continuing waste tax dollars on consultants. Pacman,
I thought you'd want to know since your knowledge of HUD programs is growing exponentially. In my
defense, I only have more than 30+ years of experience that dates back to the early 1970's.
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Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 4:43pm
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Acclaro,
I thank you greatly for your advice and concern.
People like Vivian Moon, VietVet, John Soppanish, Bert Grimes, , Bobbie, Suzanne Hayes, Hermes,
Tom Rapp, Walter Leap, Debbi Fish, you and several others have helped me so much during these past
two difficult years.
I've only attempted to provide verifiable facts on local expenditures of HUD funds. I've only attempted to provide insight into the prevailing culture and motivations of some senior staff inside city hall.
I wish those citizens who seek transparency, honesty and competence in local government the best.
NRS |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Dec 15 2010 at 7:30pm
Nelson, no need to defend yourself we are all aware of what your job was at City Hall. Since you have the expertise in HUD matters you most definitely know where and whom to see to get answers to your questions. I would suggest that since this is a burning matter with you, that you seek out the appropriate personnel in Columbus, Cleveland and Washington D.C. if need be to get your answers. Then you will be able to come back to MiddletownUSA with the answers to your questions and this matter can be put to rest. I would appreciate your taking on this endeavor so that you may further educate all of us on these matters.
Thank you
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Posted By: Mtown
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 7:59am
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Nelson Himself
Please move on or take some action. Your babbling about NSP really is a waste if time and energy. |
Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 8:48am
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Nelson Himself, Nelson R. Self, NRS, Mr. Paranoia,
It is nice to know someone is interested in this program, however, how many times must you be told: (a) no one else understands these government programs so our eyes glaze over when you post, (b) what can we do about it?, (c) you have far more contacts within this industry and can spur on far more change than any of us can.
What do you think is being accomplished by posting about the NSP funds, knowing no one will respond? Isn't that the definition of insanity -- doing something over and over expecting a different result? The citizens of this town barely register outrage at the city missteps that we DO understand. We certainly aren't going to bring about change with a program NO ONE but you understands.
Some on this board feel you would benefit from increased professional help. You certainly aren't finding peace on this blog.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 10:07am
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Nelson, if it is cathartic for you to post on NSP, post on it, nor harm in that at all.
Take contructive action; if wronged, pursue it.
We all know Middletown is run highly inefficiently, with pork and waste, and some allegations made about gas funds used inappropriately, and so on.
Just don't let this city's faulure's linger into ruining your life.I could write many books on many fine, talented senior executives who got caught in the cross-fires if an empty suit business executive, and was let go. It happens daily. Enron, Worldcom, one of the hottest markets today is forensic accounting.
You did your job and evidently did it well. The city doesn't typically reward such action, they like the politics and others pulling their strings.
Move forward. Take action. Heal.
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Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 10:46am
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Some of us do understand about the NSP funds - and if you don't you should - it is your tax money at waste.
Acclaro - you are correct in what you have said Nelson don't let the city ruin your life. But speak about what you know - people do need to hear it. People like Neil and Mtown just don't want the truth to come out. If they know something different they should share - rather then criticize someone for speaking the truth. Again if they are so uninformed about NSP, then they should not be posting about it.
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Posted By: Mtown
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 10:56am
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Maybe Nelson and Vivian could run as a team the council election next year. Then we could find out if the electorate supports them.
My guess is they are afraid to toss their hat in the ring just like the other MiddletownUSA regulars. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 11:27am
Ok Bobbie explain NSP and tell us how it is being wasted in Middletown currently. Spare us the $2.144 is going to save the Real Estate Market as we are all smart enough to know that isn't going to happen.
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Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 12:03pm
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Mtown,
What we have learned from you on this forum is that you have:
0% of the knowledge of Nelson Self
0% of the compassion of Nelson Self
0% of the passion of Nelson Self
0% of the integrity of Nelson Self
0% of the credibility of Nelson Self
0% of the importance to the city of Nelson Self
So, in the spirit of Christmas, why don't you slither back into your closet and see if you can
find a shred of decency to show when you slither back out.
Paul Nagy
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 1:18pm
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wow--what an amazing turn that this forum has taken over the last few days.
did we have posts deleted or removed?
I read where I am also posting as Mtown and/or mtown(didn't realize there to be two).
So--I have been going back and forth with myself?
Yep--you really have ole Spider figured out--you must be a city detective!
I have used one screen same here since beginning 3+ years ago.
I do not know the identity of any mtowns, though I have a pretty good idea.
I concentrate on the message as opposed to the messenger, though since the MJ trolls have arrived as mtown,Barille, guest and such, there have been many attempts to distract, denigrate and discourage.
So--the messages here are obviously resonating loudly.
Council and Admin are obsessed with this site, particularly the postings of Mr.Self.
Very unsavory personal attacks and baiting, as opposed to refuting any of his "facts and figs".
Nelson--I defend your information and appreciate your posting of them. I don't enjoy your personal insults toward others any more than I like those same insults directed at you.
Now we don't like Anita, AJ, Judy, Sam and MANY other public figues?
I know them all, appreciate their efforts and like them all very much.
Anita has be a savior to the citizen by hanging tough with the right ?s and bringing the touchy issues to the public Council forum instead of the shady executive session dealings. She has done us prtoud as a representative of the entire public. Sure--we could lose some of the drama and repeated personal disclosure, and I expect that we will lose just that, while turning up the heat for public answers and basic information.
The city manager serves the will of Council. They theoretically guide her decision-making--she implements those policy decisions. The lady seems happy here, and seems to want to be here(more than we can say for many Admin/public safety employees). I hope that she remains, but with clear consistent direction from a very un-clear, zig-zagging Council.
Acclaro, I thank you very much for your kind words lately.
You and I have agreed and disagreed on many topics, however we have been dead on concerning long-term east end and now west end devopments. We must stand firm against the new brand of bullying coming from the hypocritical trolls. Still--they have only hurt their own cause by representing themselves and their cronies in the negative, insensitive manner of their choice.
Hopefully PAC and Cin St(long way off) will help turn around an area that has been destroyed by wasteful spending, un-imaginative planning and property owners who have refused to keep up their holdings. Everyone down there seems to think that we are responsible to fund their follies, mistakes and private ventures. Not going to happen. Time for Council/Admin to make a sweep of delinquent loans, taxes, and performance clause incentives tied to grants, loans and other funding. Those in arrears and non-compliance should be dealt with to the agreed specifications.
Time for more attention towards the business areas between the former downtown and the new interstate interchange. The retail/restaurant/professional void has become a serious "quality of life" issue to those still choosing to reside here.
It has been a very difficult year for many, with little comfort on the horizon.
Ohio will pay the piper this year with massive govt.spending cuts.
Cities,schools,non-profits and citizens will feel it.
The rough spell is far from over.
And here we are during the season reserved for thanfulness, appreciation, family and helping others--
sniping back and forth like never before.
Appreciate whatever you have, help whomever you can, and never forget about doing the right thing and the reason for the season.
As Mick said repeatedly at Altamont(a sad end to a wonderful era of peace/love):
"Why are we fighting--And what for?" |
Posted By: Mtown
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 1:45pm
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Spider
Nelson Himself doesn't put out any current or relevant facts and figures. He puts old info out there no one cares about and simply ask questions about the NSP program as a way to make subtle accusations. MiddletownUSA regulars love to rant about the mall downtown and lake Middletown and on and on about the past. Get over it, move on, look forward. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 2:50pm
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Yea Spider and you Middletownusa regulars stop complaining about the past and look forwarded to the future.
PAC is here and going to adorn our downtown with car hoods, Cincy State is coming and is going to stick us (the tax payer) with more useless buildings when they bailout in a year or so. Middletown City leaders our wasting time and money making goofy Xmas videos for facebook (see http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3536 - Great Video From The City ) And don't forget the 10 + business that closed this year.
Gosh Spider and MUSA faithfully why aren't you guys dancing in the street with pride for our city? ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 4:39pm
Baw Humbug !!  ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Dec 16 2010 at 9:46pm
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Well said spider.
For Nelson Self- just adopt "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." No control over anything that is happening, so all one can do is Hang 10.
All I want for Christmas is my two front teeth....or a buyer for the homes sitting empty in my neighborhood now for 1.5 years, with prices falling $25,000. each month.
Butler Cty is in bad shape. Dreamworld and confederate money is ending January 2011. So glad they got the bike track to Franklin completed before the money tree died, but see a money pit awaiting on the acquisitions.
Remember as we move into the season of giving. Bright past. Brighter future. They know. All is well.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Dec 17 2010 at 7:06am
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WybIhLJjlTY - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WybIhLJjlTY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0qLqh8ilxM&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0qLqh8ilxM&feature=related
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Posted By: What A City
Date Posted: Dec 17 2010 at 7:31am
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Problem is Spider.....most of the people in that huge crowd listening to the Youngbloods, wanting harmony and peace among people. all grew up, went into corporate America management, city, state and federal governments, politics and other "people screwing" capacities after college, and became what they once distrusted/ despised. Most of the "radical, protesting, anti-government, don't trust anyone over 30" crowd of the sixties ended up just like the ones they once hated. In the end, this song had no long lasting effect on the generation it was suppose to apply to. The friends I had in the 60's all went off to college, got a degree, went to work for the man, obtained some type of authority position and became the power-hungry , suburb living, country clubbing , BMW driving snots they once threw rocks at. All of the defiance left after this time period. Now, we have sheep who follow like some of the posters here, who believe Gilleland's crew telling them everything is alright in the world.
Their politics changed also. They went from liberal, protesting anti- government radicals to conservative party line thinking and now abhor the people who are like them before they got "conservative religion"
 JMO |
Posted By: Eleven
Date Posted: Dec 17 2010 at 2:21pm
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Sorry to interrupt but back to thread topic.. Very sorry to hear that she will not be posting here anymore. Yes, it takes a thick skin to be a politician. But you know what? It also takes a little backbone to say somethings to peoples faces and not from behind a computer screen.
ASJ- while I was disappointed in your involvement and lack of involvement in the "Union City Council Meeting" I want you to know I am satisfied in most of your actions. Please keep asking questions and bringing things to light for the public. A lot of residents do support you. Thank you for your service
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Dec 17 2010 at 3:33pm
Eleven, that is a mighty strange first or last name, are you by chance looking for a backbone.
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Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Dec 17 2010 at 4:19pm
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Ok Bobbie explain NSP and tell us how it is being wasted in Middletown currently. Spare us the $2.144 is going to save the Real Estate Market as we are all smart enough to know that isn't going to happen. [/QUOTE]
Sorry Pacman - missed that you had asked me this question. NSP - Neighborhood Stabilization Program - to help communities that have been severly damaged from Foreclosure. That is your brief definition. I have never said the 2.144 million would save Middletown, as a matter of fact I was never a fan of the program. But 11 homes will never stabilize the community - only jobs will - and that is a recovery that will take time. The city has not followed what their plan was - which is a big waste of money. Nor did they take into consideration any suggestions (from Mr Self or anyone else) on how these funds could better provide for the community within the quidelines for what the money could be spent on.
As a matter of fact is it not a waste of money to have a plan approved - then pay a consultant to draft another plan. You know, the one they are not following - but paid for.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Dec 17 2010 at 5:22pm
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Bobbie I have read the NSP info on the city Web site a number of times and I am well aware of what it is. I agree it is a waste of funds in Middletown with only $2.144 Million. Why the plan has been changed I don't know. But the current plan has been approved by HUD and follows HUD guidelines. The fact that the city went in a different direction than Nelson wanted is immaterial and their prerogative since he is no longer employed by the City.
Personally I think they should have taken the money and torn down about 300-400 homes, they would have gotten a bigger bang for the buck but that is a nono with HUD. The way HUD operates, their funds come with far to many strings attached. I am no fan of taking these small amounts from HUD period. This city needs in the 10's of Millions of dollars now not over the next 25 years.
That being said I have no problem with the city buying middle income housing and selling them to families that make 120% of the Median income for the area. I much prefer that than buying 50 houses and selling them to families making 50% of median income. Who is more likely to make a go of it a family making $80-85,000.00 or one making $30,000.00.
Just exactly what has happened to the last programs that the city instituted selling the homes cheaply. The $1.00 program etc. Are any of the original buyers in those homes still? Have any of those homes gone into foreclosure? Have any been abandoned?
The current plan buys both types of homes and not just homes for low income families, I see no issue with that when HUD is basically pulling the strings.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Dec 17 2010 at 6:17pm
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NSP is the least of the problems in Middletown. Funds drying up. Desperate "hail mary's" on PAC, Cincinnati State, others. Moving day for CS& H. I'm sending out my SOS.
http://youtu.be/6zXwaqJgRV8 - http://youtu.be/6zXwaqJgRV8
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Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Dec 18 2010 at 9:42am
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acclaro, when you are talking about the fact that the city is in need of over $100 million just for road repairs etc and another $15-21 Million just to tear down the dilapitated homes, I would say PAC is the least of the cities problems.
Much of Middletown's problems can be tied back to HUD and their programs and the Cities lack of understanding what they have done to this town with little regard for the outcome. Now we can all be Politically correct and deny the problems but they are there and it appears that they are not going to be resolved anytime soon.
Personally I'll take a $1.1 Million, including the building, PAC problem over a $120 million infrastructure problem any day of the week.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Dec 18 2010 at 10:21am
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Wasteful, I am not certain I understand your premise/ hypothesis. Are you saying it is less of a problem to take $1.1 Mm in expenditures for PACand Cincinnati State, and the estimated $15 Mm for renovation fees, over the hole that is a crater, which is $120 Mm for neglected infrastructure? Perhaps AJ Smith and others, could have gotten $120 Mm in Obama's "stimulus" funds for sewers and streets. The figures you are using are also dated, that was anout 3 years ago. Oil and other natural products going into asphalpt has risen significantly on the spot market, and i'd project the new estimates are > $165 Mm and rising.
So, you are suggesting the street and sewer lack of oversight and preventive maintenance has caused a $150 Mm problem, therefore greater than a $16.1 Mm ependiture than the buildings and renovations? Okay, I'll conced that point.
Memo to Vivian Moon: use the cities own figures for lack of maintenance for streets and infrastruture which reflects the city hasn't maintained its own infrasrructure, which the voters did approve in the late 1980's, but they do have an obligation under the Ohio statute to maintain the cemetary. Better be pulling up some case law on that ordinanceas well. "Reasonble" has a distinct interpetation- an escape clause which puts your effort on a very slippery slope, and Mr. Wills.
In summary, its a mad city; its a made world. I state the lack of anyone putting pressure on the city to rescind the ordinance allowing the city to spend money on themselves, including salaries, is what destroyed Middletown, as well as fool-hardy decision making wasteful, HUD, others, just part of that problem called ineffective leadership and lack of vision.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3N1MlvVc4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3N1MlvVc4
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Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Dec 19 2010 at 2:15pm
bingo |