Cincinnati State
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: Economic Development
Forum Description: Local government efforts to develop the local Middletown area economy.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3682
Printed Date: Oct 02 2025 at 7:43pm
Topic: Cincinnati State
Posted By: 409
Subject: Cincinnati State
Date Posted: Feb 20 2011 at 9:25am
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It seems the Cincinnati State deal will cost us more than expected. (Act surprised!) The HVAC system could be made operable for $300,000+, however replacement for $1,000,000+ for a new efficient system seems to be the better option. This supposedly includes the Chappell building. Who knows what other issues prevail in these buildings` Or the cost to remedy` Of the other buildings, Cincinnati State is most interested in the CG&E building. I wonder what shape this building may be in` While I hoped this Cincinnati State deal would work, I have to question the final cost. Look out for March 1st` |
Replies:
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Feb 20 2011 at 10:46am
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409,
Thanks for the info; forgive my ignorance, but which building is the Chappell building? Is that the 1 N Main building? I can see why they would want the more efficient system, however; is that the cost just for the Manchester or all of the buildings that the city purchased or will purchase in this deal? Quite a public works project for the city, they'd better make it happen or the people who put this together should lose their jobs and seats on council.
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Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Feb 20 2011 at 12:12pm
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The Chapell building is the one next to the Nachester and is at the corner of Manchester and Main. Looks like it is a storage facility.
We all could see this coming, right? I don't know what's so difficult about this. They should have had the Thatcher Estate quietly bring in someone to do an estimate on renovation costs. No one would have known about it publicly. Once it was deemed too pricey, the discussions with CSt. would vanish. But they put the cart before the horse -- a lot of public discussion about it, council approval for purchases of buildings that weren't part of the C St deal, and only THEN do they gather the data needed to make a sound financial decision. A better use of all this $$ would have been to simply build AK HQ a free building out by Atrium.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Feb 20 2011 at 6:09pm
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I don't agree this won't go through, although it surely was done totally incorrectly, no due diligence until back-end. If this building is appraised for $800,000, which seems staggeringly over valued, and the city buys it for $225 Kk, they said they'd issue bonds for restoration, and lease it back to Cincinnati State.
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 1:25am
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When I was growing up on the farm we had a "wagon-looking-thing" that we would fill up with manure and it was called a "manure spreader".You hooked it up behind the tractor and pulled it out to whichever field you wanted to fertilize then you would engage a lever on the spreader and by the large cog wheel of teeth on the very end it slug sh*t every where !
Wonder who in city hall is driving the tractor ?? Cause they are sure slinging some sh*t. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 10:29am
Hermes....what the city needs is a new position created down at Gilleland's Isle. A DIErector of Manure Spreading. Say about the $90,000/year range with at least $100,000 worth of benefits and retirement. Selection shouldn't be a problem for them down there as just about everyone is qualified to do some type of spreading. Some demonstrate it each day. Just pull the money from the "General Fund"....you know, the fund where money goes in and out faster than water through a goose.  Hey, the schools can do it with "Spokesperson" Albericco at $98 thou a year. Why not the city? 
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 11:15am
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Gentlemen We have been lied to from day one about this entire deal. How much do we still owe on the Downtown Mall Debt? We were told that the 1.2 million dollar demo of the Garage and Swallen’s would save $90,000 a year which would be put toward the Downtown Mall Debt. They haven’t saved a dime instead they have purchased more empty buildings for us to pay upkeep on and the debt load of the City has only increased. The City Council approved $500,000 to purchase buildings for I questioned this $500,000 number because I had heard that the Manchester Inn had over $400,000 in liens against it. Did anyone from City Hall go to Now we are told that the price of the So now we are up to 8.5 Million Dollars and we still need to restore the other building that How much money are you willing to pay for a hand full of jobs in the downtown area? Everyone involved in this deal needs to be fired!!
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Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 12:17pm
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By my reckoning, money spent/saved on the Swallen's Building and parking garage have a while to go before the savings offsets the spending and we're actually saving some money.
Using the numbers given above, we spent $90k a year on upkeep on these two structures, which seemed to be more than we wanted to spend annually. So city government determined that the structures weren't cost effective and rather than continue to spend $90k annually on upkeep, we would demolish the structures at a cost of $1.2m. I can't remember the exact date the buildings came down but let's just say that by July 1st 2010 the spending mode had switched from maintaining to demolition (because it is an easy date to work with). So we spent $1.2m to save $90k annually. In the long term, it makes sense financially. But to me, we don't save anything until that $1.2m laid out for demolition is paid off. So $90k into $1.2m is 13-1/3 years, so using that July 1 date that means we won't be actually saving any money on this until November 1, 2023. (Obviously this is very general because it isn't exact dollar amounts to the penny. And if you want to lump in the money spent on upkeep ever since the city took over the vacant building and the parking garage was uneeded because the City Centre Mall was demo'ed...) |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 2:07pm
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Middletownscouter, |
Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 2:40pm
| Fired and sued! |
Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 3:36pm
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Not disagreeing with you at all on that, I'm sure the buildings purchased recently will have upkeep costs of at least what the cost of upkeep was on Swallen's and the garage.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 10:39pm
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In reality, in the private sector, Ms. Gilleland would have been fired within a week of this situation, and probably held accountable for the misuse of funds. Just like the public sector, and the hiring of the MHS football coach. This guy makes $75,000 annually, most of it reporting truancy and absentee problems. I can't wait to see the whole public sector revamped and re-engineered, what an incredible waste. hy oh why, did I not get a gig in the public sector as a city manager. Ms. Gilleland pulling down $135,000 annually for doing nothing.
Everhart will serve as the Attendance Coordinator at Middletown High School. In that role, he’ll work with teachers to engage truant and chronically tardy high school students. Everhart will be paid $55,890 for the attendance coordinator position, $6,833 to coach football and earn $13,697 to supervise the weight room at MHS. |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Feb 22 2011 at 1:59am
Attendance Coordinator,$55,890 per year ?? 
I'm sorry but thats hilarious ! That job must be similar to the one Vet suggested above,director of manure spreading aka sh*t slinger.
Hey maybe he could cover that job too,Attendance Coordinator,coach,supervisor of weight room and director of manure spreading. It just don't get any better than this. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Feb 22 2011 at 6:03am
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"Attendance Coordinator"???
Back in the "olde" days, wasn't this known as a TRUANT OFFICER??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Feb 22 2011 at 6:26am
Mike- back in our school days, there wasn't that much of a problem with truancy because we had CORPORAL PUNISHMENT at school and the PARENTS who disciplined at home. At MHS, we also had the mean Stan Lewis, as Dean Of Boys, who presented an intimidating presents. Step out of line with ole' Stan and get the behind burnt a little. Pain?- some....embarrassment?-- major.
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Mike_Presta wrote:Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Feb 22 2011 at 7:00am
| Hermes....I would think, judging by the behavior (especially lately), that this new Attendance Coordinator (Krause had this job too, didn't he?) will have his hands full trying to keep track of all the kids that decide to be no-shows at school each day. Between the hair burning, assaults on bus monitors, kids fighting on the bus and the no-shows at school, I think we have us a jim-dandy, out-of-control school district where issues are either being handled with no affect or are being completely ignored. No one wants to clamp down on the little monsters anymore. What they need are some ex military drill instructors to ride the buses, giving the kids the same treatment that the recruits get in basic. That ought to scare the hell out of 'em. Too bad they can't inflict some pain as a wake-up call. Again, kinder-gentler doesn't work folks.....not on the trouble-makers. They are laughing at you school officials. JMO |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Feb 22 2011 at 7:32am
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Gentlemen please notice the date of this article that was posted on this blog. Source MiddletownJournal.com By Jessica Heffner, Staff Writer
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Feb 22 2011 at 7:52am
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Documentation was included in the board of trustees packet Tuesday for Dan Cayse, vice president of strategic initiatives and entrepreneurial development for Talks have centered around Many trustees expressed feared the college may be entering “into a money pit” with a new campus in Trustee Robert McKenna Jr. said in light of possible state funding cuts, he had concerns of updating buildings in a city he called “a museum.” “Transforming a museum into a profit-making organization is going to be a task,” he said. School President O’dell Owens said he has no intention of entering into an agreement that would hurt the school financially. He added Michael Oestreicher, trustee chairman, said trustees need more information on project costs for both renovation and operation. “I think it’s pretty clear from the comments we are not against the project, but we are extremely concerned with the liability of this project,” he said. The college is collecting construction estimates. However, Cayse said initial projections show the new campus would not break even for a few years. “In my opinion, it doesn’t necessarily have to. I believe we’re going to have to find partners to offset those costs to turn things around three to four years from now.” Cayse said he expects that deal to close within the next 30 days. |
Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Feb 22 2011 at 9:27am
| Do you think its past the 30 days ? hmm |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Feb 22 2011 at 9:38am
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Cincinnati State has only delayed this until they can have an outside contractor access exactly how much money is reuired for renovation. Its a bad deal made by people whom know little about accountability and assessment. That includes Cincinnati State. Whay on earth, woud you lease a hotel that is no longer functioning, 7-8 miles off the interstae, when you could have one built, or lease space and have it retro-fitted with exactly what the needs and requirements to be.
Both the city and State exemplify the complete incompetence of public servants, and the rationale for a complete overall of collective bargaining. Look at the city of Middletown and council---giving Bill Becker the city manager's job so he would have a higher pension, then a dip over in Warren Cty. These people are paid entirely too much and would not last a month in the private sector.
No, State is not going away. They are awaiting on the budget hits Kasich is bringing, and their numbers associated with renovation, but from all I have read, their motivation simply, is to help Middletown. Spending tens of $ Mm of taxpayer money doesn't do that, and I just don't see the value in the Manchester. But, they will spend the cash, because they simply don't know better, they weren
t trained, they were not held accountable. Just like all of council that think no one knows the reason they hired Bill Becker as city manager was to give him a gift of a higher pension and the hospital, a gift of $5 Mm of city expense, while boasting they kept the Atrium "partially" in Middletown.
Time to break the backs of this nonsense in the public arena, and that includes the school district with all their redundancy. A spokesperson in every district, coaches getting padded with $80 Kk jobs checking hall attendance, assistants to the assistants. ad nauseum.
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Mar 05 2011 at 12:27pm
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Word on the Street…. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 08 2011 at 2:23pm
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Well, they went and "done" it now.......
City closes deal on Manchester Inn MIDDLETOWN — The city is now the owner of the historic Manchester Inn & Conference Center, but its future as a hotel and banquet facility still remains uncertain. (how much was that amount to bring it up to speed with repairs and updates?) "However, the city is forgiving the unpaid portion of a loan granted to the Manchester in 1993 as well as other debts totaling $154,782.45". Uh, shouldn't Ms. Garrett and the Thatcher estate be paying this in return for the city taking all this "mothballed", apparently non-usable, essentially worthless property off the estate's hands? "Within the next month, Cincinnati State is expected to make a decision on which buildings it will use for the branch campus, Gilleland said". (IF....IF the Cincinnati State trustees vote to proceed with this at all Ms. Gilleland). Still to this day, no guarantee that they will start a campus using these buildings. Only a handshake as Mulligan once said in a meeting. Scary finances. Spend all that money to entice a college to come to town. Doubt if the mothballed buildings will ever be used and will fall into disrepair, eventually having to go the route of the wrecking ball from Raush. Looks like too large of risk, too much money spent on a "wing and a prayer". What else is new? Then again, the city officials said years ago that the city would never get back into the real estate business again, didn't they? 
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Mar 08 2011 at 2:36pm
| How much did the City pay for the Manchester Inn? Please remember that Ms Judy only had $225,000 left in the piggy bank for this deal. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 08 2011 at 3:00pm
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Oh my! The Manchester Inn bought $50,000 under budget. Wasn't it appraised for $800,000. and bought for $175,000, with about $155,000 of "loans given" forgive, in other words, wink, you don't have to pay tye money borrowed back to the tax payer Thatcher estate and Mr. Akers. So, property appraised at $800,000 is bought for $175,000. Is anyone surprised, if so, please raise your hand.
Now my questions are:
i) Who gave the city the authority to forgive $150,000 in debt?
ii) Did council vote on this?
iii) Why would an estate valued at $15,000,000 receive $150,000 in debt forgiveness?
iv) Is there recourse for the taxpayer in a breach of fiduicary responsibility on passing back $150,000 on a loan>
v) What was the motivation for the city giving the Thatcher estate $150,000 freely KNOWING the estate had $15,000,000? Who owed whom what and why?
And is anyone going to remember this when the levy is brought up and needs to be turned back to 1.5%?
Call Cincinnati State and ask them what they see in all the renovation money in this property. Now throw in the water tap hookups, gauging us with water bills, and no one can sell a house. They sure lowered property values, on hown many square ft did the city pay now for $175,000?
Blows my mind, and it should others, but par for the course. And council will actually be telling each other what a good deal they got. Clap shoes twice, please take me back to Kansas.
Oh, and are we be setting up to build a new middle school for Vail---I think so, as enrollment declines. Welcome to Youngstown and Wilmington. Is Glenn Beck broadcasting soon downtown?
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Mar 08 2011 at 4:28pm
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What about the Chapple Building?
Was it included in this deal also?
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 08 2011 at 4:55pm
| $50,000 under budget, all buildings. When will Mr. Verdin's loan be forgiven? By the end of the year maybe. Nice te city is handed out checks with 0% financing. Is it a city or a car dealership or a sunsidiary of GM maybe? BTW, trash pickup costs 0 in Blue Ash. Seems like so many staying away from Middletown for a reason. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 23 2011 at 6:45am
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Today's Journal...
A hint of "Trouble in paradise" perhaps?????? "Cincy State weighs money matters with Middletown campus" CINCINNATI — Money matters continue to be the main concern slowing plans to open a new college campus in downtown Middletow "The figures should help Cincinnati State better anticipate “what kind of debt (the school) can manage” as it negotiates a final financial agreement with the city, Owens said" "College officials are still compiling renovation costs for the five buildings Middletown acquired for the potential campus" Time will tell. Hope it works out for our city and its leaders or heads should roll on this one. Same with Verdin's art center. Will there be more than 5 artists interested in this by the opening on April 1st? More importantly, when will those car hoods be decorating downtown Middletown? I'm anxious to see part of Cohen Brother's scrap yard tacked on to the side of a building.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 23 2011 at 10:30am
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Vet-
Middletown Journal Quote "College officials are still compiling renovation costs for the five buildings Middletown acquired for the potential campus. Dan Cayse, Cincinnati State’s vice president of strategic initiatives and entrepreneurial development, said the college is being cautious by not releasing figures for the project yet, but added that “regardless of what those numbers are we will find a way to move ahead.”
This is like art, two peope can see (and in this case read) the same article and have differing interpretations. I I read an affirmative YES: College officials are still compiling renovation costs for the five buildings Middletown acquired for the potential campus. Dan Cayse, Cincinnati State’s vice president of strategic initiatives and entrepreneurial development, said the college is being cautious by not releasing figures for the project yet, but added that “regardless of what those numbers are we will find a way to move ahead.” The question is: regardless of the final numbers, why are they investing? What is driving this Vet, they haven't even done a feasibility study, no idea on the impact of students, are partnering with Butler Tech for culinary classroom, and actually expect the Manchester will be a hotel and restaurant in a functioning manner? The President of C State is a coroner. This is one that makes no sense from a numbers perspective. I ask you----what is driving this?
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 23 2011 at 11:34am
| Vet and acclaro - For something not driven by money, old Ben Franklin sure seems to be in the driver's seat, doesn't he? Regardless of the numbers? Really? If Cincy State has such a desire for this project that they will proceed no matter what, I'd say someone sell this venture short, 'cause they'll be out of operating revenue quickly in the present economy. When funding for education is being curtailed at the state level, where will the money come from? Are we going to wind up financing a bond issue to make this happen? Do they really think that the public will fund this venture? Maybe Daddy Warbucks just showed up and they have a "secret partner" who's financing this whole thing? At this point, it is pointless to speculate further!!! lol |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 27 2011 at 7:04am
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Today's Journal...
Cincy State presence on hold in Middletown MIDDLETOWN — Time conflicts will likely prevent Cincinnati State from having any sort of presence in Middletown until the fall. The college is still reviewing financial data to reach a final agreement with Middletown leaders on creating the branch campus and renovating buildings purchased by the city for the project, Owens said. LET THE DELAYS AND THE "DRAGGING OF FEET" BEGIN! (Kinda like the PAC) Greg Pratt, who was hired by City Manager Judy Gilleland to work as a consultant on the project, has been talking to Cincinnati State officials “at least on a weekly basis” to speed up the process and answer questions. IF PRATT IS BEING PAID, WHERE DID GILLELAND FIND THE MONEY IN THIS CASH STRAPPED CITY? HOW MUCH IS HIS "CONSULTING FEE"? HAS THIS BEEN PUBLICIZED? Nice bit of coined, buzz-phrase crap here..... “(He’s been) helpful because he brings focus on the project to the targeted group in Middletown,” Cayse said FOCUS ON THE PROJECT TO THE TARGETED GROUP...
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Posted By: Middletown News
Date Posted: May 19 2011 at 10:39am
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From the desk of Judy:
Cincinnati State Works continues with the Cincinnati State project. Several staff members, Greg Pratt and I continue to meet with consultants and/or CS staff members to further refine the scope of the project. We will have an update in Executive Session tomorrow night as well. The Economic Development Department is assisting Maguire Associates, Inc. to complete an analysis of potential enrollment for Cincinnati State. Maguire is a research-based consulting firm serving educational institutions. Cincinnati State hired the Boston-headquartered company to evaluate the dynamics of the Dayton-Cincinnati metro area. ------------- Please like our http://www.facebook.com/middletownusa" rel="nofollow - Middletown USA Facebook Page |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 19 2011 at 12:04pm
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Interesting....
"Cincinnati State hired the Boston-headquartered company to evaluate the dynamics of the Dayton-Cincinnati metro area". YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT WITH CINCINNATI STATE IN THE AREA FOR MANY DECADES, THEY WOULD ALREADY HAVE A HANDLE ON THE "DYNAMICS OF THE DAYTON-CINCY AREA" BY NOW. I THOUGHT THE ORIGINAL INTENT WAS THAT THEY WERE LAND-LOCKED WITH NO GROWTH ON THE CAMPUS AND WERE LOOKING FOR AN OPPORTUNITY IN MIDDLETOWN AS A CENTRALIZED LOCATION THAT WOULD ATTRACT STUDENTS FROM DAYTON AS WELL AS CINCY. TAKING A LONG TIME TO WORK THIS OUT AS THE MESSAGE A WHILE BACK WAS THAT THEY WERE READY AND EAGER TO GET GOING ON THIS. BABY STEPS NOW, ISN'T IT, AS OPPOSED TO GOING FULL BORE ORIGINALLY. |
Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: May 19 2011 at 1:54pm
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"Several staff members, Greg Pratt and I continue to meet with consultants and/or CS staff members to further refine the scope of the project. " Before long the scope of this project will only be viewable with a magnifying glass.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 19 2011 at 2:29pm
| Oh my....we now have scope creep!!! No, the scope Ms. G, has never changed. The determination of what, if anything, Cincinnati State intends to lease/ use, is what remains, and that is not "scope", it is called "commitment." Where else but Middletown, could you make $150 Kk annually with car allowance, after buying $500 Kk in buildings, and awaiting a suitor called Cincinnati State to determine with a Boston firm, how many students they might have in Middletown before even commiting to anything? Only in public sector, only in Middletown. In private sector, fired on spot, lucky to have two week severance. Surreal how this plays out. And we sit back and tolerate it all. Shame on all. |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: May 19 2011 at 8:26pm
| Boston firm? Isn't this something Cincy St. should have been doing before any of us ever knew about this? This whole thing is bassackwards. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: May 19 2011 at 10:59pm
Bassackwards??? That depends. It depends upon whether or not the whole Cinci State thing was really the main goal or if it just popped up as an opportunity for a convenient cover story for the long-desired and often regurgitated plan for a quaint, olde tyme down town area. Here was a chance to “save” three of the four “historic” buildings at the corner of Central and Main, as well as our “historic” olde tyme hotel, while at the same time acquiring space for a “museum of history” and a grand home for the Historic Society!!! (And all with taxpayer funds, to boot--no fundraising required by the local history buffs, most of whom see fundraising as an activity which is beneath them.) And let’s not forget who the City Manager’s main squeeze is. Consider how many other vacant buildings are available around town with commercial kitchens that would be easily adaptable into a culinary school. Most others locations would be: Cheaper; more conveniently located to a larger number of commuting students; better parking; etc. Examples:
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 01 2011 at 7:01am
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Now wait a minute....
Today's Journal.... College study results pending for Middletown campus MIDDLETOWN — An enrollment study SHOULD....SHOULD help the city and Cincinnati State define student levels and potential revenues if a new branch campus WERE to open downtown It will tell us where the growth is in the market in terms of jobs and what the business needs are and the needs of the students,” Cayse said. HARD TO DO IN AN ECONOMY WHERE EMPLOYERS ARE NOT HIRING AND WHERE HAVING THE RIGHT JOB MARKET SKILLS ARE HARD TO IDENTIFY. The Maguire Associates enrollment study report SHOULD.....SHOULD indicate how the Middletown campus project would fit into the college’s budget and how it may impact enrollment, said Mike Geoghegan, vice president of finance for Cincinnati State. WOULDA, SHOULDA, COULDA..... As for the possibility of classes being held in downtown Middletown this fall, Cayse said he “wouldn’t anticipate that happening.” WAIT A MINUTE....DIDN'T THIS SAME GUY SAY THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME ENGINEERING CLASSES STARTING UP IN THE FALL? AND WHAT ABOUT THE CULINARY CLASSES AT THE MANCHESTER? THOUGHT THAT WAS IN THE WORKS ALSO. Everything still "up in the air". Nothing concrete or finalized. No signatures on the dotted line. Still no commitment with the city still holding on to four vacant buildings which may very well remain vacant for a long time. This is a 50/50 crapshoot at best with the city already sacrificing on a "hand shake" as Mulligan put it. No way to broker a deal, is it? |
Posted By: Middletown29
Date Posted: Jun 01 2011 at 7:56am
| The Cincinnati State deal is DOA (Ciny State Board will kill the deal at their June meeting). Pratt was the wrong person for the project but Ms. Gilleland needed a scape goat. |
Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Jun 01 2011 at 8:20am
| Judy won't be able to explain this failure away. Time to start looking for a new city manager. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 01 2011 at 11:54am
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"As for the possibility of classes being held in downtown Middletown this fall, Cayse said he “wouldn’t anticipate that happening.” http://youtu.be/1HRa4X07jdE
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jun 01 2011 at 4:42pm
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What ?!! Cincinnati State is giving the Middeltown plan the heave ho ?!! Say it aint so Judy !! What time is the next train to Dayton ? I can't be late for my class at Sinclair. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Jun 02 2011 at 10:02am
| Without a doubt the move by Cincy St. to turn to a consultant smells like an attempt at a graceful exit. I'm guessing some of their board are against this move and are looking for a consultant to crunch the numbers to prove them right and allow O'Dell cover to bail out of this deal. In the end, Judge Judy and Middletown will be left holding the bag. (And Pratt will make a tidy little fee.) |
Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Jun 29 2011 at 7:01am
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From Journal website: MIDDLETOWN — An adequate base of students exists in
Middletown to support the creation of a Cincinnati State branch campus here, an
independent market study unveiled Tuesday shows.
Cincinnati State was recommended to “proceed with establishing a campus in downtown Middletown” based on the data collected by Macguire Associates, a Boston-based company which specializes in market research and analysis for higher education institutions. The study was presented to the college’s board of trustees at Tuesday night’s meeting. Cincinnati State could project enrolling between 3,560 to 8,879 students at a Middletown campus based on growth expectations for those seeking some college and post-secondary education, the study said. In addition, the study stated a regionalization strategy into Butler and Warren counties “makes sense” because of the higher projected population growths in those counties versus Hamilton County, where the college is based. Although Middletown’s downtown is located seven miles from Interstate 75, Macguire researchers were “confident” the site would be desirable due to its proximity for some students and adequate transit services. The campus would likely attract young female students who choose not to commute to the main campus, the study said. The information “validates” what city officials already knew, said Middletown City Manager Judy Gilleland. “Now we will be entirely focused on making the deal work rather than continuing to answer the question: ‘should the project be in Middletown?,’ “ she said. School officials just received the report and are still reviewing the information, said Dan Cayse, vice president for strategic initiatives and entrepreneurial development at Cincinnati State. He called the study “an important and necessary step” for the project. “I thought (Macguire) did a great job and I think the information was really helpful to our board,” he said. A financial agreement is still being negotiated between the city and the school. Middletown purchased five buildings for $450,000 and has been holding them for a potential campus. As of Tuesday, neither Cayse nor Gilleland thought it likely a deal would be struck to hold classes in Middletown this summer. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jun 29 2011 at 9:25am
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hopefully a huge move in a good direction
let's work for the best result!
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 29 2011 at 10:14am
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"School officials just received the report and are still reviewing the information, said Dan Cayse, vice president for strategic initiatives and entrepreneurial development at Cincinnati State." "He called the study “an important and necessary step” for the project." I do not think the Board is sold on this idea. The info was helping the President wh ants to help a blighted urban area, sell the Board. The sell is very tough. With the bridge into Warren County, if this is done, the campus will be out by the highway where they will begin working initially with Greentree.
A question to the Board will be what effect, if any, will MUM hav on the numbers State has, unless they are inflated using pre-existing student population from the study. The Board is making the decision, they are not sold. They will start out in baby steps, so this project will take many years to have an impact. Think about it: these numbers reflect a population either Cincinnati State can double its growth, or its population available for enrollment which also is competing with MUM, MUH, all the West Chester campuses, including Miami WC, et al.
Ms. G's version is too optimistic vs the Board's position. We shall see, but it buys time, smiley faces, and keeps the flames stoked by the two down at State who are really pushing this idea, for reasons which seem questionable. Building the chasm between Warren and Butler makes more sense to build out by the highway, not downtown, unless Middletown starts running shuttle buses, perhaps building a parking lot out by the Atrium.
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Posted By: viper771
Date Posted: Jun 29 2011 at 6:51pm
| If it does happen, I would rather see homes rented to college students rather than section 8. Hopefully things will work out for the best. |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jun 29 2011 at 7:50pm
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As stated in another post, what does the City know and aren't telling the investors. This is so ass backwards Disney couldn't make this up. Is Pratt still involved in this, did we not just pay him for services. I am not knocking Mr. Pratt, without a doubt I trust his leadership more then our city managers. Buy buildings before a market study? A 5,319 difference in enrollment? Thats a big number. I know I coudn't pass that off on my last regional manager without questions. We all hope it will turn out for the best but this is a huge gamble with MY money and the PR dept. of this town sucks! Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 3:54am
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Being the sensitive guy that I am, I will try to put this as inoffensively as I can:
Is it possible that the spin doctors have been at work, either here in Middletown or in Cincinnati, or possibly both???
You have all read the article above from a local newspaper website, with quootes from Middletown officials. Now consider this article from cincinnati.com (the Enquirerer's website), and don't believe me--check it out for yourself at ( http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20110628/NEWS0102/106290333/ - http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20110628/NEWS0102/106290333/ ):
Report: Middletown campus would boost Cincinnati State CLIFTON - A new campus in Middletown could attract at least 460 new students, and potentially many more students who live in fast-growing Butler and Warren counties, a consultant told Cincinnati State trustees Tuesday. But the report from Massachusetts-based Maguire Associates didn't address the millions of dollars it will cost to lease and renovate several downtown buildings there, the key barrier in the college's plan to open its fourth campus. Cincinnati State says it won't take the risk of losing money on the deal. It hopes the report shows the demand is there, and Middletown officials were on the main campus in Clifton to make it clear they will provide the buildings and raise the private support needed to make the numbers work. "Middletown wants Cincinnati State," said Greg Pratt, an attorney working on the deal for Middletown. "They don't want anybody else. They want Cincinnati State." The college says about 1,700 students, or about 15 percent of its total, commute from the region's northern stretches. The Maguire report suggested that even if some students currently attending main campus decided to attend the Middletown campus, it would present new growth opportunities on the main campus. "We believe Cincinnati State needs to expand its profile," said Larry Butler, a consultant with Maguire. The city already owns several key buildings in downtown Middletown. The deal originally was to include the now-closed Manchester Inn and Conference Center as a base to expand Cincinnati State's culinary and hospitality programs, but cost estimates on renovation could put that into doubt. The expansion also could provide new chances to expand developmental education and attract female students straight out of high school who are reluctant to make the drive south, Butler said. The study included a review of Cincinnati State enrollment records and Butler and Warren county demographics, but not any new surveys. I wonder if we could get the same person who wrote the Cincinnati.com article to evalute the TRAFFIC STUDY that ranked the streets in the Highlands Historic District and S. Main St. ahead of so many other seemingly more logical streets to be paved here in our fair city??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 4:34am
|
The most amazing statement, at least to me, in the Cincinnati.com story is:
Since I have returned here in the summer of 1998, I am unaware of anything that the wannabe heavy hitters in town have wanted that they have been able to support totally privately!!! Not any of their risky downtown schemes, none of their faux historic storefronts or facades, not museums, not their Arts centers. Not even the latest olde tyme faux gas lights on South Main (a relatively inexpensive project) are without costs to the taxpayers!!! The highly successful Broad Street Bash is the only exception to the rule, and even if City Hall legislates a way to confiscate all of the proceeds from that (usually donated by the organizers to a worthy cause at the end of each season) it won’t come near to being enough to bankroll the Cinci State deal. Please excuse me if I am skeptical as I await the details of this “PRIVATE” financing plan!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 6:12am
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Ahhhh Mike, please remember that Cincy State already has a presence in Butler and Warren counties since they are part of Greentree that is now being built.
Private Funding for downtown!!!! I think not. The City will ok a multi million dollar bond for this deal and WE will get to pay for their vision |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 7:23am
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This project continues to astound me. Are a few of State's executives owners of development property in Middletown? West Chester is full of schools, including Miami U and Indiana Wesylan, to name just a few. Hamiltion has MUH. Middletown has MUM. Dayton as Miami Jacobs, UD, Capital University, others. Blue Ash has UC- Blue Ash. This is so illogical. The growth in Butler County? Minimal, but higher than state losing 500,00 resdients and won't be improving as Mr. Nenni's excellent article in the paper articulated about the tax index (Ohio 46th---and Middletown's need to outsource---tax department and IT refenced, one of many functional areas to be targets).
This is solely to create the firewall on High Street and position the city into people thinking they need to retain the levy at 1.75% or higher, as an influx comes to town. I should have become a college prof, make bad decisions, use consultants to tell you how many existing students you have that would be staying in the northern point than driving to Clifton---a net sum gain.
At least a year or longer from having any thing off the ground. MUM's rate of growth dwarfs MUH, and State can't see those numbers? There must be some investors down at State buying property wanting to fill them with two year students. The project makes no sense downtown, none. State hasn't figured out Middletown's population is retirement age, not young hip college kids, or older adults wanting to go back, and for those, MUM is in town.
Undoubtedly, city hall has already modeled how much money can be made off traffic citations, including cameras. The city will end up giving the buildings away. Why did city pass on AK's offer to give city their building? The answers from the city's part, are here.
What remains baffling is what is leading State here? Philanthropy, desire to tap into the 74% poverty, or other moves below the surface. Lets hope State doesn't read about the description of the Manchester by Palin, and rethink what the Manchester legacy has been by shutting down. Rather ironic a school with a green energy program willing to move into a completely unrenovated energy efficient facility in desperate need to retrofits and updates.
Astounding Ms. G already knew the results of the study before Macguire, think how much money she could have saved them. Don't think M factored in the competition in the area, including 3 Miami U campuses within 20 minutes of their new hub.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 7:27am
| I add, the motto of State and city: "Buy It and Lease It, and they will come." Field of Dreams, and they make ethanol from corn and baseball fields. Dazed and confized, but was else is new in Oz. Tap, tap. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jul 02 2011 at 6:29am
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I see that yesterday (Friday, July 1, at 4:00 pm) the local newspaper “updated” their June 29th story on the Macguire Associates’ Cincinnati State study. They did so by republishing essentially the identical story, but changing this sentence: “Cincinnati State could project enrolling between 3,560 to 8,879 students at a Middletown campus based on growth expectations for those seeking some college and post-secondary education, the study said.” To this sentence: “Cincinnati State could project enrolling between 500 and 2,000 students at a Middletown campus based on growth expectations for those seeking some college and post-secondary education, the study said.” This does bring the local spinmeisters’ story into better agreement with the attendance figures in the Enquirer article that I cited, which stated: “A new campus in Middletown could attract at least 460 new students, and potentially many more students who live in fast-growing Butler and Warren counties, a consultant told Cincinnati State trustees Tuesday.” However, the local paper’s “updated” story remains silent on these other issues raised in the Cincinnati.com story: “But the report from Massachusetts-based Maguire Associates didn't address the millions of dollars it will cost to lease and renovate several downtown buildings there, the key barrier in the college's plan to open its fourth campus. Cincinnati State says it won't take the risk of losing money on the deal. It hopes the report shows the demand is there, and Middletown officials were on the main campus in Clifton to make it clear they will provide the buildings and raise the private support needed to make the numbers work.” You can read both the Cincinnati.com story and the original story from the local newspaper, along with my original comments, near the end of the first page of this thread. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jul 02 2011 at 10:01am
|
Mike, perhaps what the Macquire report also omitted, and lets see how intelligent an assessment State can make on its own, that the GROWTH in Warrent County is Springboro and Mason, Lebanon flat. The growth in Butler County is West Chester. How many stidents then will come from Mason and West Chester, to attend Cincinncinati State, when the distance is as close to the Clifton campus than Middletown. Add to the fact MUM is in Middletown, MUH, MUWC, and the study would narrow that figure of potential "new" students down drastically.
Now compare the programs. State offers a fine culinary school which I see the only "differentiator" of any propgarm they have. MUM's engineering programs just as strong, if not better, that State. Same with IT. Same with life/ health sciences, with exception of nuclear medicine and surgical specialization, ergo, the Greentree partnership.
Hence, what programs are going to be put in downtown Middletown and WHY? Compete against an existing school offering the same program---WHY, and how does that produce GROWTH? Every aspect of this initiative has been backwards. Kets announce a movement to Middletown, and then figure out why. Its like building the hypothesis in a math formulation and answer and offering a PROOF to tyhe HYPOTHESIS. It will take years to put that PROOF together. I personally don't see it happening, no matter of Middletown GIVES them every building downtown. Which Middletown would by the way.
Bad deal State, look at where your growth to be, either out on 71 in Lebanon as your "marker" site, or West Chester. Middletown won't be attractive to West Chester for a downtown campus unless its pure culinary.
State just helping Middletown spin this while the levies are in play. I do like State's green program, better than Miami Jacobs.
In sum, this is: "we want to come to Middletown, if only we had a reason to do so." Grotwh not in Middletown, its Mason and West Chester. Blue Ash UC has that covered, or MUWC to west. State needs to involve a market analyst in the calculus, as they will never be able to derive the PROOF needed for their HYPOTHESIS. But, the way they are attacking this, maybe its just not needed, they make their decision on the "gut" instinct. Don't think the Board does that. But again, when offered a whole downtown, Main Street, throw in the golf course and pool down there, maybe the Middletown tennis club, and you have a campus. For good measure, maybe Ms. G. can buy the UDF and throw that into the deal to sweeten it. Insane approach to this.
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 02 2011 at 10:46am
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Acclaro |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jul 02 2011 at 11:18am
| The problem with the "test" run" is unless its the culinary program, the other schools around downtown, including MM, dwarf their present and make it very unattractive as a magnet to attract students. Its all or nothing if they start with engineering or th programs they have vs what can be obtained 15-20 minutes away. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 03 2011 at 12:39pm
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TODAY'S JOURNAL....
City buildings to be shaped into campus Developer intends to renovate them for Cincinnati State branch. Industrial Realty Group LLC signed a letter of intent June 27 to purchase the former CG&E, First Financial Bank and Bank One buildings at Main Street and Central Avenue from the city for $275,000. According to the agreement obtained by The Journal, the all-cash deal also would repay the city for all building operating expenses incurred since the structures were acquired in December. The city paid more than $400,000 for the buildings and the Manchester Inn. NOW WAIT A MINUTE. CITY BOUGHT THE BUILDINGS FOR $400,000. SOLD THEM TO THIS DEVELOPER FOR $275,000? IS THIS A COMMON BUSINESS PRACTICE FORUM BUSINESS PEOPLE? THIS IS A SIZABLE LOSS, ISN'T IT? Peter Goffstein, the company’s senior vice president, said the campus would “help continue the redevelopment of Middletown at that intersection” and the buildings could be used for other businesses or in future phases as the college grows. “It will be market-driven,” he said. “Just think of all the people you are going to have now at that intersection.” OH YEAH, THERE WILL BE SO MANY PEOPLE AT THAT INTERSECTION, WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE THE COPS DIRECTING TRAFFIC 24/7. MARKET DRIVEN? HAS THIS GUY SEEN OR READ ABOUT THE "MARKET DRIVEN" PROPERTY ATTRACTION IN DOWNTOWN MIDDLETOWN? LITTLE TO NONE, ISN'T IT? THIS AREA HASN'T BEEN "MARKET DRIVEN" IN DECADES. If the IRG deal goes through, it will effectively move the city out of the landlord business — at least for this stage of the project, said Greg Pratt, a local attorney who has been hired as a city consultant. WHAT DOES PRATT MEAN BY "AT LEAST FOR THIS STAGE OF THE PROJECT"? IS THERE MORE PLANS BY THE CITY TO PURCHASE MORE PROPERTY DOWN THE ROAD? HAVEN'T THEY HAD ENOUGH OF THE RISKY BUILDING PURCHASES? “If Cincinnati State agrees with IRG — if they make an agreement with IRG — the deal is going to close,” Pratt said. “That will be it and that is what we want — for Cincinnati State to be here.” IF PRATT......A BIG "IF". OTHERWISE, THE BUILDINGS SIT.....FOR HOW LONG? AND. AS TIME GOES BY, YOU AND THE CITY CROSS YOUR FINGERS AND HOPE THIS LITTLE "PIE IN THE SKY" CONCOCTION YOU CAME UP WITH GOES AWAY ALA CITY CENTRE MALL AND LAKE MIDDLETOWN. YOU WILL BE COUNTING ON THE PEOPLE FORGETTING OVER TIME. SOME OF US DON'T DO THAT. A conceptual cost estimate completed in March for the college by AEC Emersion indicated it would cost more than $29 million to renovate and upgrade the Manchester Inn, CG&E building and former Middletown Senior Center. WHETHER IT BE IRG OR CINCY STATE THAT RENOVATES THESE BUILDINGS FOR AN ESTIMATED $29 MILLION, WHAT DO EITHER EXPECT TO GET FOR EXPENDING THAT TYPE OF MONEY AND HOW MANY YEARS FROM NOW WOULD THEY ESTIMATE A RETURN ON INVESTMENT? DOES THIS APPEAR TO BE A SOUND FINANCIAL INVESTMENT TO ANY OF YOU BUSINESS PEOPLE OUT THERE? The base building estimate for the CG&E building alone came to $9,231,254, according to the March report. FOR ONE BUILDING....THAT MUCH? A BUILDING WHO'S REAL ESTATE VALUE IS WHAT......SEVERAL HUNDRED THOU AT MOST? DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD SINK 9 MIL IN A PIECE OF PROPERTY COSTING SEVERAL HUNDRED THOU. CHEAPER TO TEAR IT DOWN AND REBUILD, ISN'T IT? IS THIS LOGICAL? Cayse said the school is in “continuous discussions” with IRG on a financial arrangement for the campus. If the deal falls through, the letter of intent does allow the city to continue working with Cincinnati State to reach a financial agreement to open a campus downtown. NO CONFIDENCE YET THAT THIS DEAL WILL HAPPEN. IF IT "FALLS THROUGH",THE CITY (ACTUALLY THE TAXPAYER) MAY BE STUCK WITH THESE BUILDINGS FOR DECADES AS THEY SIT AS MONUMENTS TO FUTILITY......ANOTHER PATHETIC CITY LEADER FIASCO. |
Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Jul 04 2011 at 2:25pm
| This just gets curiouser and curiouser. A study comes out that I thought would torpedo this project but actually is favorable. The Manchester was supposed to be the primary attraction for CS's culinary program, now it is not even among the buildings being sold to IRC. And after this city breathlessly has repeated that we will throw $$ at them including privste funds, are we now to believe that we will not be on the hook for all the renovation costs? Head scratching stuff...What in the heck's going on? |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 04 2011 at 3:43pm
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Stanky
I believe the City was looking for a large amount goverment fuding for this project and these grants are now gone due to budget cuts.
I didn't understand the purchase of the Manchester Inn from day one, it is a money pit. I believe the City may get stuck with this big white elephant. |
Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Jul 04 2011 at 3:50pm
| Mrs. Moon, you may be right. IMO, it seems to me that the best use for the Manchester is demolition. It's hard to move forward to revitalize downtown when too many want to look back in time. I'm sure the land alone is more appealing to CS than an outdated hotel. Sorry but true. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jul 04 2011 at 4:03pm
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I) How do you know if Cincinnnati State aren't investors in IRG and this is just creating a cloaked windfall for them?
2) How do you know there are not Middletown employees in IRG making it a windfall for investros, a little like "insider" trading?
3) How does Greg Pratt come up with IRG as an investor, from califormia? Lenny Robinson, others? How long has this IRG deal been in negotiations?
4) Why did the city flaot this money for an IRG play on acquisition?
It doesn't pass the smell test. Just a humble opinion.
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 04 2011 at 4:15pm
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Acclaro |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jul 04 2011 at 4:51pm
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Follow the trail....unlease rhe hound noses. This is what we know and don't know:
1) Pratt provided attorney/ client privilege for city and State as deal maker, rounding up IRG investors. Who is IRG and can a private investor in Middletown or an employee who works at Cincinnati State also be a private investor in this deal as an individual? Of course. I get calls from San Francisco monthly in private equity about buying in massive foreclosed property in Arizona.
2) How long has Pratt been working on this "deal" with IRG? Think it happened in a week, and that a California based company came looking for a deal? Know, they were contacted to look for investors in a deal.
3) City floats money right?
4) Where's the Manchester in the deal---a no show.
5) If deal falls through, fall back with city.
Something not smelling right according to the hoiunds chasing the fox. Just an opinion based upon "circumstantial" evidence.
Lets see what the next play to be. Anyone even find IRG in a search? How big is their cash portfolio? The hounds chasing the fox...and the $$$ to be made where, by whom, by city float, and why?
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 04 2011 at 7:03pm
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This IRG story is pretty amazing, more so about the parts left out than the scant details revealed.
Anyone think that this deal might have been in the works when the properties were purchased? Or that we might know many of the names involved? Will the MJ or Enquirer do any real follow-up on this situation? At first read, absolutely nothing here makes sense or passes the smell test. does Council have any say or comments about any of this? The on-going saga of the former downtown area gets more bizarre every day. I think that I Have figured out who will get the shaft on thus deal though! |
Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jul 04 2011 at 7:08pm
People of Middletucky will get the shaft as we always do.How do we know are spineless ones are lieing? When they open their mouths.
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Posted By: Middletown29
Date Posted: Jul 05 2011 at 11:28am
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Hope Pratt realizes he cannot directly or indirectly profit from his deal with IRG. My guess is he thinks he can get paid by City and from IRG in some form.
Be careful Pratt. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 11 2011 at 5:54am
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City buildings to be shaped into campus Developer intends to renovate them for Cincinnati State branch. Industrial Realty Group LLC signed a letter of intent June 27 to purchase the former CG&E, First Financial Bank and Bank One buildings at Main Street and Central Avenue from the city for $275,000. According to the agreement obtained by The Journal, the all-cash deal also would repay the city for all building operating expenses incurred since the structures were acquired in December. The city paid more than $400,000 for the buildings and the Manchester Inn. Any news about the |
Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Aug 14 2011 at 2:10pm
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Anyone else tiring of the occasional rah rah article about Cincinnati State when those same articles leave more questions than answers?
Among the unanswered issues than the Journal doesn't seem able to clarify for us: * Who is going to be paying for the $5MM in renovations? And isn't it cheaper to simply tear down those buildings? * How in the world is this town supposed to be able to afford that? * What skin does Cincy St have in this game if Dr. Owens' claims that his board his authorized him to pursue the project only if there is educational risk (whatever the heck that means) but not financial risk? * Why should M'town commit to anything as long as Cincy St. continutes to bat their eyelashed at Hamilton? If we're going to dive in headlong into this relationship can't Owens and his board at least remain "monogomous" to us in return? * With the visible and attractive Austin Blvd development beating the pants off of a largely hidden Renaissance for future business, why will we continue to throw what little $$ we have into the downtown black hole? * When will we realize that decades of focus on downtown is like a Madoff like ponzi-scheme? |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Aug 14 2011 at 5:07pm
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The Cincinnati State scenario remains a complete bafflement, amusing on one hand, and a mystery on another. To be clear, put this matter in its proper context. The city has sold the property it floated money on, to IRG. Cincinnnati State is not willing to do anything with IRG associated with a net 25% ROI IRG wants, and the added cost of remodeling absorbed by the developer, and then passed back to CSU.
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 16 2011 at 7:41am
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Acclaro |
Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Aug 16 2011 at 9:08am
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Middletown absorbs all the risk and wastes a lot of time and $$ while Hamilton swoops in at the 11th hour to pick our bones clean. Not a shocker, folks. |
Posted By: Richard Saunders
Date Posted: Aug 18 2011 at 6:08am
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It numbs the mind to consider how our leaders can be
willing to risk millions from the public treasury for the stated purpose of “higher
education” when the basic education of our children by the Middletown City
School District is ranked number 587 out of 609. Who do these charlatans think will be the beneficiaries
all of this “higher” education?
Certainly not the product of our schools. Would it not make more common sense to sink
that money into the basic education of our own children, than providing for the
higher education of the children of all of the neighboring communities who are
properly educating their children prior to college age? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 18 2011 at 6:40am
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Today's Journal concerning Cincy State, the downtown area and the Manchester Hotel.....
Manchester Inn still faces uncertain future. IN THE END, IT WILL BE BULLDOZED TOO IF GILLELAND AND COMPANY HAVE THEIR WAY. MIDDLETOWN — It could be at least another year before the fate of Middletown’s historic Manchester Inn is decided. In the meantime, officials have spoken with private developers who may be interested in redeveloping the building as it has stood for years — an operating hotel and banquet facility — or to entertain other options which may include the conversion of the building into upscale loft apartments....UPSCALE LOFT APARTMENTS- AND PRAY TELL, WHO WOULD BE RENTING THESE UPSCALE LOFT APARTMENTS, MS. GILLELAND? IF THE DEVELOPERS WANT TO GO AHEAD WITH REDEVELOPING THIS, MAKE SURE YOU AND COUNCIL CONDUCT YOUR TYPICAL NEGOTIATION OF TAKING ALL THE RISK, NOT SIGNING A CONTRACT TO COMMIT THE DEVELOPERS TO ACTION AND BY ALL MEANS SPEND MORE CITY MONEY ON THIS SO THE DEVELOPERS DON'T HAVE TO WASTE THEIR MONEY.
Cincinnati State officials estimated it may take about $19 million to fix up the building. Gilleland said city officials are mindful of the public’s attachment to the former hotel....19 MIL TO RENOVATE A BUILDING WORTH HOW MUCH? AND NOW, THE CLENCHER OF ALL COMMENTS...... “Our downtown area is the heart of our community (OH, YOU MEAN THE AREA OF THE CITY WHERE THE ONLY ACTIVITY IS ON A WEDS NIGHT-OTHERWISE, DESOLATE AND DESERTED FOR THE MOST PART. WELL THEN, WE ARE IN BIG TROUBLE IF THIS IS TRUE) — City Council and I are sensitive to the fact that we need to preserve our historic aspects,” she said ( OH, HISTORIC ASPECTS LIKE THE CEMETERY VAULT, ROOSEVELT SCHOOL, SUNSET POOL OR THE BUILDINGS TORN DOWN FOR THE YET TO BE BUILT DUNCAN OIL AREA) NOW THAT'S COMICAL COMING FROM A CITY OFFICIAL AND COUNCIL WHO HAVE AN AGENDA OF TEARING DOWN EVERYTHING IN SIGHT AND LEAVING EMPTY LOTS. GOOD ONE JUDITH! YEAH, YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB IN NOT TEARING DOWN ANY HISTORIC STRUCTURES SINCE YOU'VE BEEN HERE. MERCY! |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Aug 18 2011 at 7:11am
| I smell a Jim Verdin in the room. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 18 2011 at 8:29am
|
Vet |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 18 2011 at 8:40am
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Well fellers before they start building all them high end condos in downtown Middletown I would strongly advise the City to buy a few semi truck loads of them little green Xmas tree air fresheners and hang them from all those old time decorative lamp post downtown so all them high class people can’t smell the ---- aka our sewer system…. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Sep 03 2011 at 3:42pm
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According to an article in today’s Middletown Journal, City Manager Judy Gilleland has sent an email to City Council stating that the Cinci State deal is progressing and that “we’re one step closer to making this vision a reality,”. From the recent dust-up over the airport dealings, we all know how particular Ms. G is about who our city deals with. So, this begs the question:
http://ymlp.com/zE33vz ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: middleman
Date Posted: Sep 04 2011 at 1:17am
| It will be interesting to see if anything ever materializes from the cinci state deal. I would like to see it, but how can you not be leery about this deal ever happening. We shall see. |
Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Sep 04 2011 at 7:50am
| If the city had any more say in this, which it may not after selling the buildings to IRG, is to insist that this campus not receive other competition from a Cincy St. prescence in Hamilton or elsewhere. |
Posted By: Middletown29
Date Posted: Sep 04 2011 at 12:30pm
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Stinky
The city didn't sell buildings to IRG IRG has an option which they will not execute if Cincy State chooses to work with someone else. Get yours facts straight or shut up! |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 04 2011 at 12:55pm
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wow mtowm u surely are tough glad that u r my friend!
In respect, it is hard for the citizen to know and understand just what is happening with this project, since the city has been less than open about the potential land transfers/arrangements, associated costs, and just whom is really involved(nothing new--HOWEVER most of the past similar arrangements haven't gone very well). Since it is all publicly funded, we might have the right to know the details and possiblilities to some degree. There aren't many positive reasons for keeping the public in the dark. The public is much smarter than given credit by our govt., and maybe our govt. isn't always that smart and operating in the best interests of the public(along with wasted $$ and opportunities). jmo
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Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Sep 04 2011 at 1:08pm
| M29, you sure know how to win friends and influence people don't you? The point is Cincy St. should commit to an exclusive agreement with M'town for a radius of maybe 20 miles. With the time, effort, and $$ this city has invested in the endeavor we should not have to hear at some point that other programming will be occuring in Hamilton, West Chester, or Springboro when it could be part of the existing offerings at the new Middletown "campus". |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Sep 05 2011 at 9:41am
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What is it you peope don't get? This is just a smokesreen, a cloak, a coverip, for the failures in Middletown elsewhere. The hosuing bubble broke Middletown's back with the departure of AK executives, and the Atrium has not been the stellar rainmaker propostion espoused. The council people downtown want the firewall. The city and State did all of this backwards. Fire, REASY, AIM. In a year. State hopes to have 200 students----I say again...200 students. Dr. Owens is blind, not a visionary, and they don't have a clue what their curriciulum will be next year.
Maybe the train deal was the hope and prayer game-changer, where students would have taken a train into town, attended class, et al. There is too much competition from Kettering, West Cheser schools, the regionals at MU, to make this a stellar, win-win, scenario. The ones pulling the strings are the Moorman's downtown, and Middletown will never be an art mecca, nor will Ohio.
The effort and backroom maneuvering over a project which just doesn't have legs to make it meaningful, is astounding. Did not someone write Wausau bolted to Harrodsburg Kentucky on a major epansion project because Middletown was so focused on this effort? The reality is so much time and effort has been put into the train deal and the downtown shuffle, this is just an attempt to salvage something. MUM has enormous excess capacity---what benefit does State bring to the tabe? Enough cars to sustain UDF, enough traffic tickets to sustain the court's remodeling effort? Middletown is so desperate it is placing its bets on anything, and making anything associated with State as Shakespeare would say, "Much Adou About Nothing."
In this smokescreen, no one has said a work about a retired banker from Barnitz and a retired school psychologist, the Fishers, in their early 80's, accousted at gunpoint in a fine Middletown neighborhood, within 200 yards of the Middletown's Police Chief's resident off Rosedale. Crime like this is a wake up call for everyone that the city is not patroling, and crime is horrific. State just is a smokescreen, and why anyone is jumping on this wagon boggles the mind.
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Posted By: Middletown29
Date Posted: Sep 05 2011 at 9:44am
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Stanky
Agree But you previous statement had nothing to do with this latest point. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Sep 05 2011 at 10:09am
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Hello All!
I'm back from computer exile!!!
I have a question. Is anyone aware of the fact that the city has evicted all tenants of 2 N. Main St.? Why did they evict paying tenants? Why are they putting this building into mothballs? It is my understanding that this building isn't even part of the plans for Cincy State. Anyone with information about this?
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 05 2011 at 10:36am
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ok mtown/stank--as a local lifer, taxpayer and long-term business owner---
what exactly do we own in the area formerly known as downtown?
what has been sold, to whom, and for what $$ amount?
what are the plans for the remaining properties, and what is the monthly upkeep?
should I order in a few truckloads of mothballs, or has that purchase been out-sourced quietly to an out-of-town crony?
will city employeees have to sign out on their many runs to the new UDF(I don't believe that we have timeclocks or monitoring in the city building-emember--these trips will be documented on video and time-stamped!)
on 9/22, will you attend the Owens "coronation" or the Middie football game?
easy choice
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Sep 05 2011 at 12:08pm
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Spider- what exactly do we own in the area formerly known as downtown? what has been sold, to whom, and for what $$ amount? what are the plans for the remaining properties, and what is the monthly upkeep? Spider |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 07 2011 at 6:56am
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Today's Journal...
Plan to bring Cincinnati State to Middletown expected by month’s end MIDDLETOWN — The president of Cincinnati State said he will present a plan by the end of the month to his board of trustees detailing an arrangement to bring a branch campus to downtown Middletown. The city acquired the First National Bank, former Masonic Temple, Bank One and former CG&E buildings in December following interest generated by Cincinnati State. The Manchester Inn was acquired in March. The city paid more than $400,000 for all the buildings. Legislation allowing council to spend up to $75,000 more than it initially budgeted for the buildings is expected to be addressed Sept. 20. If approved, it would fund the upkeep of those buildings. Officials have estimated it may cost about $100,000 to maintain the buildings for the rest of the year. As of Aug. 24, there was about $66,000 set aside in for the Downtown Improvement Fund, a fund designated for expenditures in the downtown area. Gilleland said she did not expect the acquired buildings to turn into a collective money pit. Moving forward, yearly maintenance costs are all together estimated at approximately $10,000 a year. OK- LET'S TALK ABOUT THE COST........ REMEMBER, IN THE VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH, CS PRESIDENT OWENS SAYS HE IS GOING TO PRESENT A PLAN TO THE BOARD. HASN'T HAPPENED AS YET AND NO COMMITMENT HAS BEEN MADE AS YET OTHER THAN A "HANDSHAKE" WITH CITY OFFICIALS. THE COST TO THE CITY SO FAR..... $400,000 FOR THE 4 BUILDING PURCHASE FROM THE THATCHER ESTATE $100,000 TO MAINTAIN THE BUILDINGS FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR ACCORDING TO THIS ARTICLE $10,000 PER YEAR FOR UPKEEP ANOTHER $75,000 ON COUNCIL'S PLATE FOR MORE UPKEEP 
ONLY $66,000 IN THE DOWNTOWN BUDGET FOR "EXPENDITURES" THAT'S OVER $500,000 + ANOTHER $75,000 PROPOSED + $10,000 PER YEAR FOR UPKEEP FOR HOW LONG? OVER HALF A MIL ON A HANDSHAKE AND A "PROMISE" FROM OWENS THAT HE CAN CONVINCE THE BOARD TO GO AHEAD WITH THE PLAN. WOW....I THINK I'D HOLD OFF ON SPENDING ANY MORE MONEY UNTIL SOME TYPE OF CONTRACT INDICATING COMMITTMENT WAS SIGNED, WOULDN'T YOU? WOULD YOU GIVE THE COMPANY THE MONEY UP FRONT TO BUILD YOUR HOUSE BEFORE THE FIRST CONCRETE TRUCK SHOWED UP TO POUR THE BASEMENT? IMO, THE CITY HAS ALREADY OVERCOMMITTED, GIVEN THE LACK OF A FIRM AGREEMENT FROM CS. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Sep 07 2011 at 8:27am
| So the city is about to get a "plan" from Cincy State. Does anyone have an idea what that "plan" will entail? Furthermore, the Journal article states that some of the buildings costs will be paid by tenants. Why then, was 2 N. Main St. emptied of it's tenants? Why are ANY buildings being mothballed? Is this project, already a half million dollars in the hole, ever going to be explained to the citizens of Middletown? What are the opinions of council candidates about this project? |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Sep 07 2011 at 9:51am
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Today's Journal... Well Ms Gilleland you’re a little late.. it has already turned into a money pit. |
Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Sep 07 2011 at 11:13am
| I thought that the cost to demolish the garage and swallens building was $90k and that the maintenance cost was significantly less so that the savings will not be realized for at least a decade? |
Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Sep 07 2011 at 11:41am
| I believe the yearly upkeep was $90k and the demo costs were roughly around $1 million. |
Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Sep 07 2011 at 12:18pm
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You're right. I searched and found a Journal article April 2010 that said the cost of demolition was $950k and that the upkeep for the garage was $90k per year (no figure was given on upkeep of the Swallen's building in the article).
So we're still going to be into the 2020's before the city actually starts saving money on that property. Probably longer when you factor in the additional upkeep on the new "greenspace." |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Sep 07 2011 at 1:03pm
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Let's take The Manchester building out of the equation, as IRG and some entity, is going to buy the buildings that Cincinnati State wants for its initial "downtown" campus right? So, lets ssume arguenedo, the cost is either wrong on Swallen's or wrong on all the properties the city bought for State. If indeed, State leases the buildings, if the Swallen building is the model for cost, and inflation and utility expense has risen considerably since the Swallen "demo", then it is safe to ASSUME the mothball expnse for the Manchester and lets say six months before IRG or another party BUYS the city buildings (minus the Manchester- that's saved for verdin some 5 years down the raod when he builds his clone of Dallas hybrid modeling), there will e anywhere between $200 KK- $250 KK, on additional expense on the buildings. Add to that the capital loss in usage (COCD) on the Manchester, and it will be decades before any return is seen on State and the city's purchase on the buildings from the Thatcher estate.
Yeah, this project is one that really is a winner, that and residents paying $100.00 a plate, for the coronation of Dr. Owens at State. Really disappointed in Mr. Laumbach's answers in another post. The pool was a loser, not ROI, but you support the golf course, and the airport? How sad. State a winner, PAC a destination? Good grief, where is Augusta Rodin when needed! Not one of the buisness entities referenced was an outcome of new business, but existing business, save Paychex and its 30 jobs, in comparison to about 1500 lost over 10 years. Cincinnati and Dayton merging and Middletown is stratgically placed? Sorry Mr. Laumbach, you must not realize Dayton is ranked no. 5 in foreclosures in the nation, and the Dayton area has lost in excess of 300,000 jobs since 2000. So the explosive growth is occuring WHERE? Not in Ohio councilman. And surely, not in Middletown.
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Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Sep 07 2011 at 6:31pm
| Acclaro has pounded away at this most ass backwards BUSINESS deal and I applaud the posts. 200 students looking for a tech degree. Verdin standing stage left! Several months ago I was lucky enough to talk with a rep. from the firm who did a enviromental study on The Manchester and other buildings, good grief. Whats happening with the highway? Acclaro brought up which I noted many times but forgot when talking about our exit is how freakin ugly it is. High tension wires, 55gallon barrel, Street signal poles ready to fall over at the union road intersection. Question- Have asked this before to council people , please tell me how to get in line for some money. Do we have to THROW money at ideas and hunches? I'm a little concerned about the "New blood " on council. But they have and I haven't. Enough with downtown!!!! |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Sep 07 2011 at 8:01pm
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Not to be disagreeable, but the deal has been done. City owns the buildings and is responsible of the upkeep. Basically there is nothing that can be done now. This doesn't mean I agree with the purchase, but that's just the way it is. If I'm not mistaken it was stated at the Council meeting on Tuesday that the City was requesting additional funds to mothball buildings that were not to be used to bring down the cost of maintaing them. Personally as far as the Manchester Inn goes, I would set a time line for someone buy the building/remodel it or if there is no interest in the building it should be torn down. And if one of the pre-historic foundations want to save the hotel, tell them to come up with about $25 million to purchase and restore it themselves. PACMAN  |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Sep 08 2011 at 5:17am
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Acclaro |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Sep 08 2011 at 7:20am
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Good point Pac and I will try and envision the "Glass half FULL". But how much more are we going to spend before Cincy state signs on the dotted line. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Sep 08 2011 at 9:11am
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The most alarming aspect of the Cincinnati/ PAC deals are who is driving them and why. No one can possibly evaluate the manner the deal negotiations have been handled and not question the logic. Buildings bought before they are even conceptualized what will be used, if thye will be used, and for how long used. That should be a significant concern as to the direction and basic ability of the city to operate in a manner that is logical and fiscally responsible. None of the actions to date have exemplfied "fiscal repsonsibility."
The city is paradox. On one hand, it closes the pool and estroys its foundation after 80 years based upon attendance. Does attendance have anything to do with uncertainty? If the pool is open for a summer only, there is lack of uncertainty and desire for use. Of course, weather impacts usgae. Yet, PAC is established, buildings bought, on the uncertainty associated with the future and financial return. The Manchester is savced for....historic significance---its legacy? But the pool destroyed as it won't pay for itself. And the golf course is a better expenditure because....?
Vivian, not one entity, IRG, you name it, will pay anything for back maintenance expense other than a fixed, on surface, inexpensive amount, something like the $10,000 used, in contrast to the $90,000 on annual Swallen expense. Why the difference is the $$$ used? It defies logic and fundamental commonsense.
To add insult to injury to these paradoxical whims, the airport situation was telling. Emails dated a day or so before the event with resignations bashing the management of the city leadership. the Manchester acquisition, led to a parachute jump as planned and no resignation? Why was this handled so rapidly and with a solution? The only way to get the city's attention is to drop emails of embarrassment?
The city continues its journey making the wrong turn. The Bermuda Triangle impacting compass and direction is alive and well in the city called Middletown. Where up is down, and east is west, and good is evil.
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Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Sep 09 2011 at 2:45pm
| I thought Cincy St. was going to announce some sort of plan by yesterday? |