Your distaste for the public unions has been well documented on this blog. I appreciate your POV but your argument seems to always come around to "be like the private sector". From what I've read, you not only do not believe the arguments of the opponents of SB5, you don't care what those arguments are. It seem that your only concern is for those workers to "get screwed" just like everybody else. I just don't understand that.

 

If there is any doubt that workers, workers rights and the middle class in general are the target of these type of attacks on unions and bargaining, that doubt is rapidly fading. Everything that is happening around the country is the Republican attack on working men and women at the expense of the wealthy. From the limits on unions to attacks on voter registration and voting rights to wanting to tax the poor, the wealthy have perpetrated a class war against the working class. They have the propaganda spin machine (FOX News) running all out to convince Americans to vote for their own servitude.

 

If these ideas are allowed to sway the day, it won't be long until the middle class will be a thing of the past and we will have nothing but the ruling class and the poor. Then you'll see rights removed by edict and the poor left to die. We've already seen and heard first hand from the Republicans how they feel about health care, capital punishment and worker rights. Let's stop this before it starts and defeat SB5!!!

 

If your democrat comrades are so worried about working men and women of America then why did this President decide to stop deporting non criminal illegal immigrants and issue them work permits instead and why is this President still allowing 150,000 legal and I did say "legal" immigrants a month to come to this Country for jobs ?

 

My support for working men and women is the same as always. I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT NOR A REPUBLICAN!!! Get it straight. I think BOTH parties should be voted out. If you took the time to read what I've written in previous threads you would have figured that out by now. I've said it before and I'll say it again; WRONG IS WRONG!!! I don't care which party is "For" or "Against"; if it's wrong, it needs to be called what it is. It is wrong to disobey the laws of this country concerning immigration. If you're not supposed to be here, IMO, you have no protection under the Constitution because you are not subject to those laws. Any other consideration is secondary to the fact that you are in violation of US law simply by being here!!! You need to be deported, humanitarian reasons are a factor but are minor to the fact that you are violating the law. Besides that, why are you trying to sidetrack this issue? This is about stripping workers the very right to organize; what the hell does this have to do with immigration?!!!

 

VietVet,

 

As was reported in the Journal just a few months ago, negotiations between the MCSD and the MTA (for which Mr. Packert is on the negotiating team) went to a fact finder.  Both sides accepted the fact finder's recommendation for a 3 year contract: first year, 1% pay reduction and increase from 10% to 15% in employee share of health insurance premium; second year, another 1% pay reduction; third year, increase from 15% to 20% in employee share of health insurance premium; no step increases all 3 years.  Both unions agreed to this, and it was also applied to all non-union employees. 

 

Many school districts in Ohio have negotiated pay freezes but I think maybe only 1 other district negotiated a reduction.  The willingness of the unions to accept these concessions was critical for the financial health of MCSD. 

 

Marcia Andrew

You seem so worried about the repblicans killing off the unions and the middle class just what the hell do you think flooding our jobs market with millions of legal and illegal immigrant workers is doing to the middle class? Or is it just that you are pro union and to hell with the rest of the middle class? How ever I can agree with your statement about both parties being voted out as they both are corrupt as all get up,maybe term limits should be imposed.

 

My friend, I think that we have the same target but different point of view.

 

Your employment story would be different, IMO; if there had been a union. Hard to know for sure, of course; it's easy to speculate about the imaginary. I would hope that you see the benefit of workers being able to negotiate as a group instead of individually. I've worked in union and non-union environments and even if the union is ineffective, you as a worker have certain basic rights. The whole concept of "work-for-hire" is essential to our modern society.

 

I also understand that it seems odd that government employment is a better life than private employment. I wonder why police, fire, other governemnt workers make far more money and enjoy better benefits. I imagine that it depends on the private sector job you have. If you work in the private sector and make more money than teachers, police, fire, etc. , then I guess you're doing ok. If not, you're like me and a number of others. I don't begrudge anyone their living and for the most part, I don't envy anyone's job and the responsibilities that go with it. IMO, Vet, you've been undercompensated for the work you've done both in the public and private sector. You've certainly done more just by having a job and paying taxes than what you've been compensated for. While working class wages stagnated, management "compensation" exploded. I don't think they shared the results of success with the workers who made it possible. Instead, wealth is now being systematically extracted from this country and neither political party is doing anything about it. In fact, both parties are living off off the fat while doing exactly what their political contributors want. The only playing field this levels is the one we'll all be begging on for food, shelter, and the possibility of tomorrow being better than this. Plus, the very thought that we are watching the disentigration of our country as though there is nothing we can do to change it. We can and must do something about it. We must vote down any attempt to restrict the rights of workers to organize. Then we must vote out those that would attempt to perpetrate such laws. This will not end it!!! If Kasich and every legislator in Columbus is not voted out at the first opportunity, they will see it as a vindication for their point of view. They will attempt again to deceive voters of their intent and only after they pass something are they willing to "negotiate"! I certainly think that labor and management in the public sector can accomplish a better outcome than this attempt to censor worker rights.

 

The Democrats, IMO; are just as guilty of deceiving the American people and working rights including unions. MSNBC has some conservative elements but for the most part is as much a propaganda machine as FOX. I no longer read much into the comments of "pundits" or experts. Just because the Democrats suddenly found an issue that will resonate with voters doesn't mean that they support unions. Politicians will take money from anyone who wants to influence their vote and if you don't believe me, do a little cross-checking between contributors and legislative votes that influence the contributor. That's why they ALL MUST GO!!! It is the only way that we can have REAL CHANGE!!! Vote anyone out with a Democratic or Republican affiliation and perhaps reasonable INDEPENDENT legislators can go about correcting the abuses and excesses that these two parties are currently inflicting upon us. Never have I seen this country more divided and never have I seen more people trying to profit by it. I will gladly take up the role of "Crusader" if that word didn't have such a negative connotation!!!

 

Millions of illegal immigrants in this Country willing to work for lower wages lowers working men and womens ability to earn a liveable wage.Once they gain legal (status which is what this administration wants to grant them) then they can compete even more with American citizens for jobs not to mention the 150,000 or so a month of legal immigrants that come here every month for jobs I wonder where they all work at?when millions of Americans are unemployed? So lets see hmmm...Maybe by flooding our economy with cheaper foreign labor? Hope that answers your question.

 

I think I answered your question you can view it how ever you like

       It seems that the discussion has gotten sidetracked from SB5 to Illegal Immigrants to middle class jobs and they are all entirely different issues with a little overlapping (imo). However, I think the discussion is worthwhile. To answer your question, "What current middle class job has been taken over by illegal immigrants?" I would name a few but they overlap with low income jobs in some areas also. How about those that are doing carpentry, asphalt driveways, siding and roofing. Those are middle class jobs aren't they?

        Thanks for the posts. I think this discussion is relevant in light of the present political issues.

             pn

 

I believe it was M29's question. You are correct that it is extremely relevant. Illegal immigration is a serious crime that deprive ordinary Americans of the rights of citizenship. When Americans don't have jobs it seems unconscionable to me to allow employment by those not legally here. The real point is that if we are going to be a country that enforces its laws and borders, allowing amnesty to lawbreakers is not the message that America should be sending.

I think there is enough blame to go around without oversimplyfying things and blaming everything on 1 or 2 institutions alone, i.e., unions, banks.  We have messed things up together, we need to make it right again together.  Country before party, not the other way around.

 

I would have hoped that our elected officials and the people who negotiate with the public employees unions would provide those checks. Based on the competence with which the city has pursued the Cincy State deal, it's a wonder that they don't have even better benefits!!!