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AK Steel Blast Furnace Could be New Green Energy

Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown Area Business
Forum Name: AK Steel in Middletown, Ohio
Forum Description: AK Steel in Middletown Discussion
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4395
Printed Date: Oct 16 2021 at 8:03am


Topic: AK Steel Blast Furnace Could be New Green Energy
Posted By: Middletown News
Subject: AK Steel Blast Furnace Could be New Green Energy
Date Posted: Feb 22 2012 at 11:53am
AK Steel of Middletown wants to build a $310 million power plant that would use the foul gases from its blast furnace as a fuel rather than a waste gas that it must by law now flare.

Ohio lawmakers are considering a measure that would call blast furnaces a source of green energy and instantly pit steel makers against wind farm developers.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/02/blast_furnace_waste_gas_could.html - http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/02/blast_furnace_waste_gas_could.html

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Replies:
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Feb 22 2012 at 3:14pm
Interesting news.  Funny how the local news did not report this.


Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Feb 22 2012 at 6:14pm
This project was actually initiated around June of 2010.
            http://dis.puc.state.oh.us/TiffToPDf/A1001001A11D08B64057A07777.pdf - http://dis.puc.state.oh.us/TiffToPDf/A1001001A11D08B64057A07777.pdf
The blast furnace gas was previously burned in the boilers at AK's #2 Boiler House next to the blast furnace to generate steam. This steam was generated at approximately 400 psi and superheated to about 750 degrees to run the blast furnace turboblowers, auxillaries, and process steam.


Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Feb 22 2012 at 9:40pm


Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Feb 22 2012 at 9:40pm
This does sound familiar now.  My apologies.


Posted By: viper771
Date Posted: Feb 24 2012 at 3:37am
They just now thought of this???


Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Mar 10 2012 at 8:25am
This is old Technology and has been used in Europe for many years.  The Blast Gas has a low BTW value (about 125btw/cu ft in AK's situation) but is used, with the supplemental Natural Gas, to fire the Boiler house boilers to make steam to generate, via Turbines, the "Blast" part of the blast Furnace. The Blast furnace gas also is burnt in the Stoves at the BF to heat the blast air to 2000 degrees before it enters the furnace. The Blast gas alone will not get the stoves hot enough in the time allowed to reach 2000 degrees so natural gas is added here also.

The process being discussed here is one where the blast air is preheated, off site, with the burning of the  excess Blast gas that is now being burnt off at the the flare stack, where more time is available and then sent to the furnace complex where it is heated again to the 2000 degree level needed for current operation parameters. This will save Natural gas and reduce the Carbon footprint of the Blast furnace.

Now the part you Obamy haters won't like. This has not been done before because it was not economically feasible. It only is now because part of the money comes from the "green" portion of the stimulus so many of you bitched about and said didn't work.

I hope none of you bamy haters run to get your cut of this project. LOL.


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Mar 10 2012 at 11:04am
So how is it cost effective if we have to borrow money from china to subsidize it (stimulus funds) I must have missed something.


Posted By: squeemy
Date Posted: Mar 10 2012 at 1:07pm
what's interesting to me is that the Cleveland link that JH posted to start this thread (written by a Plain Dealer reporter) has a lot of commentary - none on the Middletown Journal page from an article written by Tom Gnau.

it's also interesting that this thread hasn't touched much on the controversy: should AK-Air Products proposal be regarded as Alternative or Renewable energy?

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/bill-would-update-definition-of-renewable-energy-for-steelmaker-1332753.html




Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Mar 10 2012 at 6:32pm
Wasn't Air Products looking at getting involved or was that something else?


Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Mar 11 2012 at 2:52pm
Bo, you are a typical Neo-con knothead.

It was not cost effective for AK, that is why AK never did it. As far as borrowing money from China, I agree with you. Of course it is just as stupid to borrow money from China to give tax cuts to millionaires also, but somehow idiots like Romney don't see that part.

Air Products is involved because they have been contracted to run the Facility. It will also displace the #2 Boiler house at AK for purposes of providing cold Blast air to the Blast furnace.

I am sorry to be so blunt, but i think IDIOTS, on both sides of the political spectrum, are going to be our down fall. My own sister has become so brain washed by Rushbo and others that someone could start a rumor that Obama was signing an Executive order outlawing calling Christmas anything but the Winter Solstice Celebration, and she would believe it. I love her, but she has turned into an idiot just like MANY on this site. I am a conservative, i just have not went over the deep end like most  neo cons have.

  Salem Mass had a general insanity invade the Community centuries ago and we  have a similar situation now, occupied by extreme idiots on both sides.


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Mar 11 2012 at 3:37pm

Neo-con? I wont even bother to respond to that.I only call them as I see them sorry that you agree with presidents that borrow money like a drunken sailor that stole donald trumps American express.



Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Mar 11 2012 at 5:44pm
Once again, you go with emotion rather than fact. I said I agreed with you about borrowing from China.

So, now explain your comment here.. You won't as you can not. you are like so many others,having been fired up by Elmer Gantry types and you can only respond with emotion without even thinking thru whatever position you are espousing.

As far as you being a neo con...you sure talk the neo con nonsense just like you were one.

I am just sick to death of all the stupidity in our political system today. If you would clear your head long enough to think, you might see that this kind of BS can lead to some really bad things, given historical precedent. I mean things FAR worse than borrowing too much money. Of course that would require logic on your part and your neo con devotion has probably rendered that part of your brain useless by now.


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 2:24am
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

Once again, you go with emotion rather than fact. I said I agreed with you about borrowing from China.

So, now explain your comment here.. You won't as you can not. you are like so many others,having been fired up by Elmer Gantry types and you can only respond with emotion without even thinking thru whatever position you are espousing.

As far as you being a neo con...you sure talk the neo con nonsense just like you were one.

I am just sick to death of all the stupidity in our political system today. If you would clear your head long enough to think, you might see that this kind of BS can lead to some really bad things, given historical precedent. I mean things FAR worse than borrowing too much money. Of course that would require logic on your part and your neo con devotion has probably rendered that part of your brain useless by now.
 
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 2:24am
Originally posted by Bocephus Bocephus wrote:

Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

Once again, you go with emotion rather than fact. I said I agreed with you about borrowing from China.

So, now explain your comment here.. You won't as you can not. you are like so many others,having been fired up by Elmer Gantry types and you can only respond with emotion without even thinking thru whatever position you are espousing.

As far as you being a neo con...you sure talk the neo con nonsense just like you were one.

I am just sick to death of all the stupidity in our political system today. If you would clear your head long enough to think, you might see that this kind of BS can lead to some really bad things, given historical precedent. I mean things FAR worse than borrowing too much money. Of course that would require logic on your part and your neo con devotion has probably rendered that part of your brain useless by now.
 
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
 
Neo lemonheads


Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 1:29pm
Humor is an emotion, right?        You made my point


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

Humor is an emotion, right?        You made my point
Shirley, you jest. LOL LOL LOL

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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 4:04pm
I hear Ya mike. I should have known better than to post on here. I just had personal knowledge of the project in question and offered to share it. My mistake was in not adding some anti O'Bama bias. Without that bias, it is not considered legitimate info on this site.

You and Paccy, and Bo, and others on here are like Play Ground bullies. You stick together and spout ur nonsense. That is, sadly, where internet  forums have went. Basically they are now nothing more than sites pandering to the views of the site owner. The only worth while discussion any more is when someone like me rocks the boat of all you like minded "thinkers".

You blow all your garbage and criticism without offering a single decent opposing idea. You bring up things, maybe it makes sense to you, but generally they are shallow thoughts completely unworkable in a modern society. Section 8 is a perfect example. I don't like it either, but without it we wouldn't have 3000 empty house, we would have 4000 empty ones.


Any way, go ahead make your childish jokes. The real people of the World will keep trying to solve the problems of the World. When we are done, you all can post on here how it would have worked better your way.






Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

I hear Ya mike. I should have known better than to post on here. I just had personal knowledge of the project in question and offered to share it. My mistake was in not adding some anti O'Bama bias. Without that bias, it is not considered legitimate info on this site.

You and Paccy, and Bo, and others on here are like Play Ground bullies. You stick together and spout ur nonsense. That is, sadly, where internet  forums have went. Basically they are now nothing more than sites pandering to the views of the site owner. The only worth while discussion any more is when someone like me rocks the boat of all you like minded "thinkers".

You blow all your garbage and criticism without offering a single decent opposing idea. You bring up things, maybe it makes sense to you, but generally they are shallow thoughts completely unworkable in a modern society. Section 8 is a perfect example. I don't like it either, but without it we wouldn't have 3000 empty house, we would have 4000 empty ones.


Any way, go ahead make your childish jokes. The real people of the World will keep trying to solve the problems of the World. When we are done, you all can post on here how it would have worked better your way.




No, Irisner, once again you’ve gotten it wrong.

I offered no comments, nor took any position, on the “personal knowledge of the project in question and offered to share”.  I neither “bullied” anyone nor did I “stick together” with anyone.  Nor did I “pander to the views of the owner of the site”, nor did I mention one single word either in favor of or against our present president.  All of that is abundantly clear to anyone who can read the thread up to this point.  (At least it should be...I had made no posts at all up until my one short attempt at humor.)

I merely responded to one direct question in your comments on this PUBLIC forum, “Humor is an emotion, right?” I tried to do so in a humorous fashion, but apparently that was lost on you.  I feel badly for you about that…I truly do.

I believe that humor is a quality, or the ability to perceive, enjoy, or express what is amusing, comical, incongruous, or absurd.  I suggest that you lighten up a bit and try to enjoy what short bit of time we mere mortals have left on this mud-covered ball of iron.  I am sorry if I have offended you by not having been more surly.

Oh…and I promise never again to call you “Shirley”!!! LOL LOL LOL



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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 7:50pm
B.S.!, Mike.......you are one of the "Panderers" here. Please don't feel bad for me. I feel very superior to you, to be honest.

 I am "cursed" (in our society, anyway) with awareness. A quality far too rare in American Culture today. Sadly, you will not have a clue of what I speak until it is too late. 


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 13 2012 at 3:11am
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

B.S.!, Mike.......you are one of the "Panderers" here. Please don't feel bad for me. I feel very superior to you, to be honest.

 I am "cursed" (in our society, anyway) with awareness. A quality far too rare in American Culture today. Sadly, you will not have a clue of what I speak until it is too late. 

Oh, Irisner, you are so great!!!  I apologize for quoting your actual words and responding to them point-by-point.  I should have known that questioning someone of your high “awareness” and “superiority” was folly.  Please excuse me for not having “a clue of what I [you] speak”, but I notice that you were not able to actually cite even a single actual quote of mine to back up the things of which you accuse me.

(If expressing gratitude to the purveyors of this forum for making available the single local website of which I am aware, that commoners are permitted to express their opinions without being censored is “pandering”, then I happily plead “guilty”!!!  Aside from that I’d say that your “awareness” is convoluted, and is, indeed, a “curse”.)

Regardless of the forgoing, might I remind you that you are perfectly free to simply ignore my posts if they cause you such consternation, and turn your valuable time and superior intellect toward the musings of other liberal thinkers with whom you seem to be more in agreement?   To use your very own words, if you “should have known better than to post on here”, and if it troubles you so, then don’t.  That seems to be quite a simple solution.

I am sincerely sorry that I have seemed to trouble you so.



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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 13 2012 at 3:29am

"Every man I meet is in some way my superior, and in that, I learn from him." … R. W. Emerson 



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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 13 2012 at 7:14am
Irisner, your comment including "others" opens the door for comment.

Irisner..."You and Paccy, and Bo, and others on here are like Play Ground bullies. You stick together and spout ur nonsense"

Hey, you forgot me bud. I'm one of the biggest play ground bullies here. Just ask the teacher named sickofthebull. Why, I've had just as many arguments on this site as anyone.


Irisner..."The only worth while discussion any more is when someone like me rocks the boat of all you like minded "thinkers".

Yep, "like-minded thinkers".....as in "how do we turn this town around because we give a crap about it and want it to change for the better". As in, "We dislike what they are doing to the town and the direction it is going and want it to change" In those respects, we are all "like-minded" I see nothing wrong with that. Why would you?


Irisner..."The real people of the World will keep trying to solve the problems of the World. When we are done, you all can post on here how it would have worked better your way".

You flatter yourself by your inclusion to the "real people of the World" We are all in the same boat. We just have a different perspective of what we are seeing and how to deal with it.

"Problems of the world?" Hell, we're still trying to work on the problems of this town. Forget the world right now. Actually, most of the ideas and "how it would have worked better our way" have been supported by actual facts of what is happening currently, followed by suggestions on corrections. Posts by folks on this forum have been rooted in logic and common sense, something the city leaders severely lack.

Mike, I think I have found someone who is as bitter, antagonistic and as argumentative as I am.











Oh, Irisner, not all people on this forum are anti-Obama. Our family, registered Dems, voted for him last election. However, his stance on helping illegals gain rights, giving minorities all his focus while ignoring the majority, the bailouts with no paybacks, and his pandering to greedy unions are some of the reasons we will not be continuing our support.


Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Mar 17 2012 at 9:21pm
Thank you all for responding. If I provoked some emotion from you, I have done something. All the "sameness" on sites like this are useless. One can get all that he/she needs in any blue Collar Bar were they solve the World's problems on a daily basis.

I am sorry if you were offended by the :"Superior" comment. However, time has taught me that it is true. I was tested as a Genius in the 4th grade after all.....LOL.

In all seriousness, my middle of the road positions, while most of the Country is polarized to the extreme, should show that my thoughts are more main stream than most of you. It seems that FOX News and MSNBC has gained control of the average American's mind.

Most of what you hear on TV is wrong, regardless of what network you watch. I watch them all, then believe a composite of what I hear. Maybe some of you should try that.

Additionally, I am a REAL conservative. It amazes me how LIBERAL some conservative can be if his/her Super Rich buddies are going to have a big payday out of it. That is not conservatism, that is plain Greed.


I bet most of you would be surprised that I was a promoter of Kemp\Roth. At that point in history, Federal Income Taxes needed to be cut. To cut those same Taxes today is pure stupidity, yet the so called conservatives promote it all the time. It is no longer about sensible Tax Policy, it is now about getting all they (the greedy) can get while the masses are believing the BS .

So laugh and boast all you want....it may make you feel better, but it won't do sh*t to solve our problems.


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 18 2012 at 12:51am
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

"Every man I meet is in some way my superior, and in that, I learn from him." … R. W. Emerson 

On the other hand, neither I nor Mr. Emerson have ever actually met Irisner.

DesiSmileys.com


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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 18 2012 at 7:46am
Now wait a minute Irisner......let's think about the statement you just posted.....

IRISNER:

"Most of what you hear on TV is wrong, regardless of what network you watch. I watch them all, then believe a composite of what I hear. Maybe some of you should try that".

If most of what you watch on TV is wrong, why would you believe a composite of a news source that is wrong in your opinion? Why would you waste your time watching the news at all?

IRISNER:

"Additionally, I am a REAL conservative. It amazes me how LIBERAL some conservative can be if his/her Super Rich buddies are going to have a big payday out of it. That is not conservatism, that is plain Greed".

GREED IS IN POLITICS (PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SECTOR POSITIONS ALSO) ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. POLITICS IS AN ARROGANT, EGOTISTICAL, GREEDY GAME OCCUPIED BY ARROGANT, EGOTISTICAL, GREEDY PEOPLE. WE THE PEOPLE CAUSED THIS SITUATION, MAINLY BECAUSE THERE ARE NO GOOD CHOICES TO VOTE FOR IN EITHER PARTY AT ALL LEVELS AND HASN'T BEEN FOR DECADES. POLITICIANS- ALL SCUMBAGS....JUST COMING FROM A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

IRISNER:

"So laugh and boast all you want....it may make you feel better, but it won't do sh*t to solve our problems".

OK, WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE, GIVEN ALL YOUR KNOWLEDGE, TO SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN US. WE ARE EAGER TO LEARN.


Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 18 2012 at 10:19am
Irisner,

So, the "radical" returns! I didn't think it was possible to be a conservative and "radical" at the same time so I applaud your intellectual gymnastics. Of course, anyone who considers themselves a "genius" can justify any seemingly contradictory point of view. That doesn't make you a genius, that just means you can fool yourself into believing you are.

You come here to explain the blast furnace mechanics (which was well done, btw) but just couldn't resist a dig at those who don't share your political affiliation. That seems rather strange that a "conservative" genius like yourself would support economic stimulus of any kind. I thought such "conservative" genius would reject any notion of governmental interference in the free market capitalist economy. Yet, when government makes it economically feasible to invest, you seem to be all for it. Nice "flip" on that and you stuck the landing as well.

I'm also struck by your assertion that you are a "real" conservative. What does that mean? Does that mean everyone else is a fraud? Lying? Delusional? Ignorant? What, exactly, is your definition of a conservative? Are you a social conservative? An economic conservative? A foreign policy conservative? Or, are you just a "real" conservative so you can hide behind a label?

You are correct in your assertion that greed knows no party or ideological affiliation. It isn't just politicians who are greedy; anyone who puts personal wealth before the benefit to society fills that definition. That brings me to your assertion that you supported the Kemp/Roth idea about cutting taxes. The conservative theory of "supply side" economics and the trickle down effect of tax cuts for the wealthy has been debunked by the last decade. Conservatives scream about the deficit but don't have any idea how to solve it other than cut spending. Yet our economy is based on consumerism; more money spent, the more the economy grows. The more people with disposable income you have, the stronger the demand for goods and services and the creation of jobs and wealth. No matter how much the wealthy have in terms of disposable income, they are too small a percentage of the population to create economic prosperity. In ten short years we went from a decreasing debt and government budget surplus to pay off the debt, to an exploding debt crisis and an economy destroyed. The Kemp/Roth idea would simply have started the economic decline 4 years earlier.

Someone who is truly a "genius" would never have to tell someone. It would be on display through their ideas and actions. You have fooled yourself with this notion for long enough; a true "genius" knows how profoundly ignorant he truly is. Your ego stands in the way of attaining any true measure of enlightenment which is "genius" personified. The person humble enough to recognize that no one has all the answers is the person on the way to achieving the "genius" label you seem to covet. It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that really matters.





Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Mar 18 2012 at 11:20am
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

Thank you all for responding. If I provoked some emotion from you, I have done something. All the "sameness" on sites like this are useless. One can get all that he/she needs in any blue Collar Bar were they solve the World's problems on a daily basis.

I am sorry if you were offended by the :"Superior" comment. However, time has taught me that it is true. I was tested as a Genius in the 4th grade after all.....LOL.

In all seriousness, my middle of the road positions, while most of the Country is polarized to the extreme, should show that my thoughts are more main stream than most of you. It seems that FOX News and MSNBC has gained control of the average American's mind.

Most of what you hear on TV is wrong, regardless of what network you watch. I watch them all, then believe a composite of what I hear. Maybe some of you should try that.

Additionally, I am a REAL conservative. It amazes me how LIBERAL some conservative can be if his/her Super Rich buddies are going to have a big payday out of it. That is not conservatism, that is plain Greed.


I bet most of you would be surprised that I was a promoter of Kemp\Roth. At that point in history, Federal Income Taxes needed to be cut. To cut those same Taxes today is pure stupidity, yet the so called conservatives promote it all the time. It is no longer about sensible Tax Policy, it is now about getting all they (the greedy) can get while the masses are believing the BS .

So laugh and boast all you want....it may make you feel better, but it won't do sh*t to solve our problems.
 
Nothing but a forum troll LOLLOLLOLLOL


Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Mar 23 2012 at 6:36pm

Well written Tony! I agree that a lot of what you say is true. The comment "a true "genius" knows how profoundly ignorant he truly is." is my personal main stay. That seems odd given my boldness here, but if one is in France, one needs to speak French. I am simply adapting my linguistic approach to the audience I have. Being modest would only inflame most of those on here into thinking they were indeed effectively rebutting my argument. You may well be an adversary worth debating with. You were way off course with your “dig at those who don't share your political affiliation” assumption however. My dig was at small minded people who wouldn’t know a Watermelon from an ear of corn if some Political Pundit didn’t tell them the difference. It was a dig at inexcusable ignorance.

"I'm also struck by your assertion that you are a "real" conservative."

 

Why is that? Could your contemporary concept of conservatism be wrong? I think so. Words get changed meanings over time. My Grandmother would routinely use the word “gay” to describe someone energetic and playful, with no sexual connotation. Could your idea of “conservatism” be equally altered contemporary just as “gay” was?

 

My conservatism recognizes that Human beings need time to adjust to change. That applies to economic theory as well, since without human beings there is NO economics at all, let alone theory. To insure a stable, gradually adjusting economic system, we have to rely on consistent economic Policy and gradual change. Your assertion that free markets reign is an example of how neo conservatism is a contemporary ideal and not traditional conservatism.  I actually think this neo con idea that free markets are so great is a quite stupid idea.

 

Free Markets do have a place in an overall economic Policy. However, they are just as flawed as any other economic idea that one could come up with. Look at the ungoverned portioned of Africa and you will see what unrestrained Free Markets are about. Anyone wanting that has to be crazy. Free Markets only work when government is there to keep them civilized and prevent the creation of lawless Boom Towns that we saw in our own history in the old West, when the abundance of natural resources overwhelmed our then immature Government.

 

Tony, you mentioned the consumerism that has driven our economy. I am pleased you see that. Tell Paccy and the other knotheads that don’t realize that the Middle class has to be economically successful for the general economy to prosper.  Mr Kaisch and his cronies are trying very hard to continue the idiocy that brought about the decline of the middle class and the resulting decline in our economy. Most of the people of this site promote those ridiculous ideas without realizing that their own personal decline is the RESULT of those policies. THAT is the brainwashing I am fighting on this site.

 

 As to my solutions for Middletown, I will repeat them AGAIN. ACCEPT the decline. It is demographic in nature and no one’s fault. That fault lies in spending money to try and bring back what will NEVER come back.  Cut Staff by 30%. ALL Staff.  For God sakes, quit subsidizing things like the Golf Course. Sell the damn thing!!  Don’t do MiddFest, we can’t afford it. We have no money for any thing!  I disagree with Josh usually, but support his Infrastructure Budget proposal as we have no choice but to keep the roads.

 

Now to Kemp/Roth….that was 30 years ago and Tax structure was pretty much opposite of what it is now. At that time, it was an appropriate action and needed to be done. Cutting taxes now for the wealthy is absolute stupidity and the support for it we see on sites like this is nothing more than validation of my “brainwash” theory.

 

You all emotionally react to me defending the Unions against such things as SB5. That is because you are NOT adults and just want to whine! I never said the Unions shouldn’t have to take cuts. It is simply THEIR decision, by virtue of legal contracts, as to HOW those cuts take place. Management has the right to control levels of employment but not the right to change the terms of contracts that they have already agreed to.  Your whining about the Medical benefits and your REFUSAL to discuss the concept of TOTAL COMPENSATION proves my point about childishness. I am NOT against cuts to the Union, I AM against childish attacks on their contract.

 

Anyway, any more from me would require you all to pay tuition, LOL.

 

If that pisses you off, then you have no sense of humor in addition to being childish.

 



Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 23 2012 at 8:07pm
Irisner,

One should never underestimate his audience. If you have to change your linguistic style to adapt to the audience, be sure the audience can't tell or your arguments will be dismissed as condescending. Talking "down" to the level of someone else is lying about who you are.

My "contemporary" view of conservatism is that I have no clue as to what it is anymore. Based on the definition of conservatism as articulated by the potential nominees of the Republican party; I want absolutely no part of it. The "conservatism" you articulated as in needing to take time to adapt is a pipe dream. If you can't adapt to a changing environment and set of circumstances quickly in our age; you will be left behind! The economic system is being changed right before our eyes as wealth is being concentrated into the hands of an "elite" few. A free market system will work so long as regulation keeps "too big to fail" companies from occurring. Yet conservatism today doesn't seem to be about conserving anything except money and making sure that the rich get richer.

Let me ask a question here. Does anyone here see the correlation between lower tax rates for the rich and the decline of our infrastructure? Anyone see how quickly incomes skyrocketed for top 1% yet we now have no manned space program? Anyone see the correlation between wealth being extracted from America while Americans increasingly struggle for basic necessities? Anyone remember the oil embargo of 1973? Why 40 years later do we still run our transportation on oil? Does anyone remember the "original intent" of the 16th Amendment? How did we go from that to the insane tax code we have now? How can this country spend more on its defense than the next 16 highest spending countries and still be unsafe? How can we still be talking about women as if they are not people capable of making their own decisions?

I'll be interested in the answers to that, although this really isn't on the topic of this thread.


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Mar 23 2012 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

Well written Tony! I agree that a lot of what you say is true. The comment "a true "genius" knows how profoundly ignorant he truly is." is my personal main stay. That seems odd given my boldness here, but if one is in France, one needs to speak French. I am simply adapting my linguistic approach to the audience I have. Being modest would only inflame most of those on here into thinking they were indeed effectively rebutting my argument. You may well be an adversary worth debating with. You were way off course with your “dig at those who don't share your political affiliation” assumption however. My dig was at small minded people who wouldn’t know a Watermelon from an ear of corn if some Political Pundit didn’t tell them the difference. It was a dig at inexcusable ignorance.

"I'm also struck by your assertion that you are a "real" conservative."

 

Why is that? Could your contemporary concept of conservatism be wrong? I think so. Words get changed meanings over time. My Grandmother would routinely use the word “gay” to describe someone energetic and playful, with no sexual connotation. Could your idea of “conservatism” be equally altered contemporary just as “gay” was?

 

My conservatism recognizes that Human beings need time to adjust to change. That applies to economic theory as well, since without human beings there is NO economics at all, let alone theory. To insure a stable, gradually adjusting economic system, we have to rely on consistent economic Policy and gradual change. Your assertion that free markets reign is an example of how neo conservatism is a contemporary ideal and not traditional conservatism.  I actually think this neo con idea that free markets are so great is a quite stupid idea.

 

Free Markets do have a place in an overall economic Policy. However, they are just as flawed as any other economic idea that one could come up with. Look at the ungoverned portioned of Africa and you will see what unrestrained Free Markets are about. Anyone wanting that has to be crazy. Free Markets only work when government is there to keep them civilized and prevent the creation of lawless Boom Towns that we saw in our own history in the old West, when the abundance of natural resources overwhelmed our then immature Government.

 

Tony, you mentioned the consumerism that has driven our economy. I am pleased you see that. Tell Paccy and the other knotheads that don’t realize that the Middle class has to be economically successful for the general economy to prosper.  Mr Kaisch and his cronies are trying very hard to continue the idiocy that brought about the decline of the middle class and the resulting decline in our economy. Most of the people of this site promote those ridiculous ideas without realizing that their own personal decline is the RESULT of those policies. THAT is the brainwashing I am fighting on this site.

 

 As to my solutions for Middletown, I will repeat them AGAIN. ACCEPT the decline. It is demographic in nature and no one’s fault. That fault lies in spending money to try and bring back what will NEVER come back.  Cut Staff by 30%. ALL Staff.  For God sakes, quit subsidizing things like the Golf Course. Sell the damn thing!!  Don’t do MiddFest, we can’t afford it. We have no money for any thing!  I disagree with Josh usually, but support his Infrastructure Budget proposal as we have no choice but to keep the roads.

 

Now to Kemp/Roth….that was 30 years ago and Tax structure was pretty much opposite of what it is now. At that time, it was an appropriate action and needed to be done. Cutting taxes now for the wealthy is absolute stupidity and the support for it we see on sites like this is nothing more than validation of my “brainwash” theory.

 

You all emotionally react to me defending the Unions against such things as SB5. That is because you are NOT adults and just want to whine! I never said the Unions shouldn’t have to take cuts. It is simply THEIR decision, by virtue of legal contracts, as to HOW those cuts take place. Management has the right to control levels of employment but not the right to change the terms of contracts that they have already agreed to.  Your whining about the Medical benefits and your REFUSAL to discuss the concept of TOTAL COMPENSATION proves my point about childishness. I am NOT against cuts to the Union, I AM against childish attacks on their contract.

 

Anyway, any more from me would require you all to pay tuition, LOL.

 

If that pisses you off, then you have no sense of humor in addition to being childish.

 

 
Yawn


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 24 2012 at 1:20am

Irisner:

Your latest load of puffery and self-aggrandizement has convinced me of your fragile grasp on reality, and made me sorry that I have ridiculed you. 

I sincerely apologize.


-------------
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Mar 24 2012 at 10:00am
Was CVS closed Yesterday??


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 24 2012 at 11:21am
Irisner:

"The comment "a true "genius" knows how profoundly ignorant he truly is." is my personal main stay. That seems odd given my boldness here, but if one is in France, one needs to speak French. I am simply adapting my linguistic approach to the audience I have. Being modest would only inflame most of those on here into thinking they were indeed effectively rebutting my argument".

C'MON IRISNER, WHY THIS APPROACH? WHY THE POMPOUS APPROACH AND "HOLLIER THAN THOU ATTITUDE"? PROFOUNDLY IGNORANT? LINGUISTIC APPROACH? EFFECTIVELY REBUTTING MY ARGUMENT? FAIRLY ADVANCED PHRASES. DID YOU START READING A COPY OF ROGET'S AND LEARN SOME REALLY BIG WORDS, OR DID YOU START A NEW CAREER AS A LAWYER?

IRISNER:

"Tell Paccy and the other knotheads that don’t realize that the Middle class has to be economically successful for the general economy to prosper".

WE ALL REALIZE THAT. AGAIN, WHY THE NAMECALLING?

Irisner:

"Mr Kaisch and his cronies are trying very hard to continue the idiocy that brought about the decline of the middle class and the resulting decline in our economy. Most of the people of this site promote those ridiculous ideas without realizing that their own personal decline is the RESULT of those policies. THAT is the brainwashing I am fighting on this site".

NO, MR. KASICH IS TRYING TO REDUCE SPENDING, CUT OUT THE FAT IN STATE GOVERNMENT AND LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD WITH THE UNIONS IN THIS STATE, PROPOSING SB5. IT WOULD HAVE ASKED THE UNION PEOPLE TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE OF THE BENEFITS PREMIUMS THROUGH PAYROLL DEDUCTIONS AND TOWARD THEIR RETIREMENT LIKE THE REST OF US WORKING PEOPLE HAVE TO DO IN NON-UNION WORKPLACES. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT? RIGHT NOW, UNION PEOPLE HAVE A DISPROPORTIONAL AMOUNT OF THEIR BENEFITS PAID FOR BY THE PUBLIC. TIME THEY PAID THEIR FAIR SHARE. THE RESISTANCE LABELED AS "AN ATTACK ON THE WORKING PEOPLE" BY THE UNION FOLKS WAS, IN REALITY, A MOVEMENT BY THE UNION PEOPLE TO PROTECT THEIR LITTLE UTOPIA, WHICH MOST OF US DON'T ENJOY.

IRISNER:

"Cutting taxes now for the wealthy is absolute stupidity and the support for it we see on sites like this is nothing more than validation of my “brainwash” theory."

I AGREE. IF THE RICH CAN'T SHOW THAT THEY ARE REINVESTING IN AMERICA (CREATING JOBS FOR WORKING AMERICA) WHILE GETTING THESE TAX BREAKS, THEY SHOULD IMMEDIATELY BE TAKEN BACK TO THE HIGHER RATES.

IRISNER:

"As to my solutions for Middletown, I will repeat them AGAIN. ACCEPT the decline. It is demographic in nature and no one’s fault. That fault lies in spending money to try and bring back what will NEVER come back. Cut Staff by 30%. ALL Staff. For God sakes, quit subsidizing things like the Golf Course. Sell the damn thing!! Don’t do MiddFest, we can’t afford it. We have no money for any thing! I disagree with Josh usually, but support his Infrastructure Budget proposal as we have no choice but to keep the roads".

AGREE AGAIN. SOUND LOGIC IMO. WHAT'S THE PROBLEM IRISNER? WE CAN AGREE ON THINGS WITHOUT ALL THE DRAMA, THE EGO/SUPERIOR ATTITUDE AND NAMECALLING, CAN'T WE?

IRISNER:

"You all emotionally react to me defending the Unions against such things as SB5. That is because you are NOT adults and just want to whine! I never said the Unions shouldn’t have to take cuts. It is simply THEIR decision, by virtue of legal contracts, as to HOW those cuts take place. Management has the right to control levels of employment but not the right to change the terms of contracts that they have already agreed to".

NO, UNIONS SHOULDN'T HAVE TO TAKE CUTS ON THE CURRENT CONTRACTS. BUT, WHEN THOSE CONTRACTS RUN OUT,IF THEY CAN'T TAKE LESS, THE UNION PEOPLE CAN TAKE A HIKE AND TAKE THEIR GREED WITH THEM, UNLESS THEY WANT TO SUBMIT TO SOME OF THE SB5 CRITERIA AND START PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE. AND YES, MANAGEMENT HAS THE RIGHT TO CONTROL THE LEVELS OF EMPLOYMENT. WE SEE IT NOW, EVEN WITH THE DEFEAT OF SB5. COMPANIES JUST CAN'T AFFORD THE UNION GREED ANYMORE, SO THEY START THE DOWNSIZING OF PERSONEL. HOW'S THAT VICTORY OVER SB5 WORKIN' OUT FOR YOU UNION FOLKS NOW? NOW, INSTEAD OF KEEPING YOUR JOBS AND PAYING A LITTLE MORE ON YOUR BENNIES AND RETIREMENT, SOME OF YOU HAVE LOST YOUR JOBS COMPLETELY AND ARE STANDING IN THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE NOW. WHAT DID YOU GAIN, AGAIN?

IRISNER:

"Anyway, any more from me would require you all to pay tuition, LOL."

"If that pisses you off, then you have no sense of humor in addition to being childish"

AGAIN, WHY THE EGO TRIP BUD? PAY TUITION TO LISTEN TO YOU? DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH SON. ALOT OF FOLKS ON HERE JUST AS SMART AS YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU ARE. EVEN IN A HUMOROUS POSTURE, YOU ARE NOT GETTING YOUR MESSAGE ACROSS AS ONE TO LISTEN TO.

HAVE A NICE DAY PROFESSOR.




Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Mar 25 2012 at 5:01pm
Yawn

Smile


Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Mar 25 2012 at 5:01pm
God, that was easy. It required no thought what so ever. 


Posted By: Richard Saunders
Date Posted: Mar 25 2012 at 7:04pm
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

God, that was easy. It required no thought what so ever. 
"No thought what so ever."
 
The same as all of your posts.


Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Mar 31 2012 at 2:49pm
Well, DICK, I haven't heard from you on this issue till now. Did it take you that long to come up with something at least symbolically witty?


Posted By: Richard Saunders
Date Posted: Mar 31 2012 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

Well, DICK, I haven't heard from you on this issue till now. Did it take you that long to come up with something at least symbolically witty?

Well, IRIS, if by “this issue” you mean AK’s blast furnace gas project, I refrained from commenting because the two posts you made relating to that subject contained at least bits of accuracy and I saw no need to correct you on a rather esoteric subject.

If by “this issue” you mean your irrational braggadocio, I refrained because you were doing such a good job of making a fool of yourself that I felt you were in no need of assistance in doing so.




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