SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4636
Printed Date: May 14 2024 at 10:26am
Topic: SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Subject: SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 3:05am
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Betsy Parr Clerk of City Council One Dear Mrs. Parr: This is to request that you call a special meeting of the Middletown City Council on Council will convene and receive and file the Special Meeting Documents. They will then consider a motion to direct the City Manager to prepare materials to participate in the Moving Ohio Forward Grant Program and will consider legislation authorizing the same as well as legislation authorizing signing the Memorandum of Understanding with the Butler County Land Reutilization Corporation for the cooperative acquisition and banking of nonproductive real property in Sincerely, file
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Replies:
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 6:07am
| Ok, so what is a "special council meeting". What is the criteria for such a meeting and will it be open to the public with public input? |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 7:44am
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This isn't a council and hasn't been one for years. It is cartel. You are witnessing DALLAS playng out in front of you twice a month (or more, when special double secret probation meetings are called). I find it quite disturbing and alarming---someone needs to pull the panic button. The cartel is getting cavalier and out of hand with their tactics. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 9:36am
Its to get that million dollars that they need to tear down the so called 3,000 houses.Since Picard wasnt at the meeting they want to vote on it again.Hope that A.J. and Mrs.Scott Jones dont show up.
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VietVet wrote:Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 10:17am
Got a little "do over meeting" since Mulligan and company didn't get what they wanted ehh?  Apparently, if it goes their way, only one vote is required. If not, keep whipping the horse til it complies with their wishes. A new low for this council among many new lows. No morals, no scruples, no class. Time for public lynchings down at Governors Square folks? We can re-create "Hang 'Em High" (after the Weds Bash of course) Mike, you can give the nod out the window overlooking the Square to pull the lever for the trap doors. 
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Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 10:32am
Hopefully since A.J. was on the fence when he voted that he VOTES NO this tme.I think its a damn shame that our spineless ones are allowed to do this.All because Curley(Joe M) and Moe(Lawrence) didnt get what they wanted.
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Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 12:49pm
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Even though I am in favor of the legislation, I've got to admit that this process doesn't "feel" appropriate. Everyone knew the rules when they took the vote. If they weren't prepared for the supermajority outcome that was needed, they shouldn't have put it to a vote when they did. "Do over" votes just destroy citizen confidence in their leaders.
My "guess" is that this meeting will not produce the change that the Mayor wants because Ms. Jones & Mr. Smith are opposed to the meeting. However, I do think that they will work out something with the county to allow them to participate. Time will tell. GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 1:32pm
| Can someone please summarize this for me? What did I miss? |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 1:55pm
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Here is the link to tonight's AGENDA.
http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/council/06262012_w.pdf - http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/council/06262012_w.pdf
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 2:48pm
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June 27, 2012 |
Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 3:00pm
| Was told that A.J.and Mrs.Scott Jones wasnt going to be there tonight so what happens now? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 3:03pm
Yep 1. The city is trying to procure grant money to knock down 300 or more houses in town in quick fashion. 2. Council took a vote that required a "super majority" without Danny Picard present and, with Laubach's no vote, failed to achieve the vote requirements for approval. 3. Mulligan and company didn't like the outcome and it was announced in the Journal that there were members of council, who, after voting and losing, want another vote that will eliminate the outcome of the first declining vote. 4. Tonight's "special council meeting" (is this legal?) is for the purpose of reversing the original rejected vote in "super majority" fashion. Danny Picard will, no doubt, participate for the purpose of supporting Mulligan's side. 5. It is hoped AJ Amith and Scott-Jones (who were against this special meeting) will not participate (or vote no with Laubach), denying once again, Mulligan's desires in s. maj. fashion. My best shot at what happened. |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 3:15pm
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As per usual, who knows what twists will occur.
Tonight's meeting is a first reading, so no vote will occur this evening.
This is a set up for next weeks meeting.
TV Middletown will telecast this evenings meeting.
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Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 3:19pm
How is it a first reading when it was voted on last week?Also if Im not mistaken they have to have it approved by the end of June.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 3:32pm
Good point. Since Landen and company are obsessed with declaring EVERYTHING an emergency and at times, hurrying up the process by skipping readings, I am surprised that this isn't a "super emergency" declaration to go with their "special meeting".
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Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 3:36pm
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I noticed the Ordinance & Resolution numbers have each been bumped up one number from last weeks numbers so they are considering these new items? Wow!
I believe a previous poster said the city only needs to notify Nancy Nix of intent by the end of the month.
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Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 4:52pm
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Remember….. The June 21st article in the Middletown Journal also had a paragraph that stated:
“But Butler County Treasurer Nancy Nix said Middletown may not need that meeting if city officials can say a resolution is forthcoming. “I think we’re still good,” said Nix, who met last week with a representative from the Attorney General’s Office. “The state wants to get this money out and is not putting up roadblocks. They’ve said, ‘We’ll work with you.’ ” This approach would not take “special meeting” that Smith & Jones are opposed to. GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 5:03pm
Thank you Vet, I do appreciate it! |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 5:21pm
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To Ms. Moon's point, this seems rather serious. Logically, how on earth could federal grants to used as funding for a state grant that matched what the federal grant provided? Why would not a city have to put some skin in the game to take care of the problem, or let the fed and state take care of it, with 0% funding? This is simply illogical. As Middletown is riding the back of Hamilton, and Butler Cty, is Hamilton not putting money in either, relying on HUD funds? And if Hamilton does put in funds, how much, if any, would Middletown get when all the funding comes from Hamilton? Something seems a bit off kilter here. I further read you can't carry greater than 50% of HUD funds forward into the next fiscal year. Is that what Community Revitalization has been doing, stock-piling cash to use for the down payment for free money, and do they know they can't use these funds as their part of the 'down payment" bargain? COURTESY OF HUD- the Taxpayer Shakedown leverage model.  ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 10:21pm
From MJ:
Middletown to support land bankBy Rick McCrabb, Staff Writer 10:00 PM Tuesday, June 26, 2012 In the matter of 15 minutes, the city took “a huge step” toward correcting years of neglect, said Les Landen, the city’s law director. “When you drive into the city, and you see blighted and vacant homes, does it make you want to move your family here, your business here?” Landen asked outside the City Building. “I don’t think so.” On Tuesday night, during a special Middletown City Council meeting, council voted 4-0 to support the county land bank’s application of a Moving Ohio Forward Grant from the Ohio Attorney General’s Office. The County Land Reutilization Corp., which is the still-forming county land bank, is applying for the $2.7 million state grant, and Middletown and Hamilton are potential beneficiaries of the grant, equally splitting the grant and the collective $2.2 million required match. Last week, council sought to pass a resolution as emergency legislation showing interest in the grant. A six-vote super majority was needed since it was emergency legislation, but council voted 5-1, with Councilman Josh Laubach dissenting. Vice Mayor Dan Picard was out of town. On Tuesday, with three council members — Anita Scott Jones, A.J. Smith and Laubach — unable to attend the meeting, there was little discussion and the vote took less than 15 minutes. If the city is able to match the $1.1 million in grants, Community Revitalization Director Doug Adkins said 300 vacant and abandoned homes — about 10 percent of its such properties — would be demolished by Dec. 31, 2013. He said the city is in the process of identifying possible dilapidated homes to be leveled. Mayor Larry Mulligan said the city will seek the “worse of the worst,” and hopes following the demolition of the homes, property values in those neighborhoods will increase. During the meeting, Dan Picard, who missed last week’s meeting, questioned how the city was going to match the grant. Landen told him the city would move the necessary money out of the city’s general fund, adjusting the budget. He called it “a pretty simple process,” then said the move was “perfectly above board.” The Moving Ohio Forward Grant is money that was part of a federal settlement with multiple mortgage providers. The Ohio Attorney General’s Office was given the state’s portion of the multibillion-dollar settlement and set aside $75 million for the grant program designed to demolish dilapidated and abandoned homes. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 26 2012 at 10:54pm
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What is the most used word in the dictionary spoken repeatedly by city leadership and council members? You have 10 seconds....tick....tick....tick. Time is up. HOPE. That says it all about Middletown. Hope it works, hope it gets done, hope it helps, hope it makes a difference. Hope----is not a vision, it is not execution. Hope is uncertainly praying for luck. 100% of this money laundered into the GF will be spent on Main Street. The cartel has spoken. God save the Queen.. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 6:16am
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"On Tuesday night, during a special Middletown City Council meeting, council voted 4-0 to support the county land bank’s application of a Moving Ohio Forward Grant from the Ohio Attorney General’s Office".
AND "Last week, council sought to pass a resolution as emergency legislation showing interest in the grant. A six-vote super majority was needed since it was emergency legislation, but council voted 5-1, with Councilman Josh Laubach dissenting. Vice Mayor Dan Picard was out of town" Well hell, if it was that easy to get what Mulligan and company wanted, why go through the exercise of emergency legislation and deal with a super majority vote of 6? Just wait, declare it a non-emergency, wait for your buddy, giving you the 4 votes needed and move on. Recurring theme with these clowns. Just change the theme, find the hole in the fence and slip on through. The Black Hole of Laundering came through for them again. That money in the General Fund, the city's "landfill" for wayward, whitewashed funds, has, once again, become the savior for their desires. Is there any limit to their backdoor thinking? Any limits to their underhanded ways? I like Leslie's comment.... “When you drive into the city, and you see blighted and vacant homes, does it make you want to move your family here, your business here?” Landen asked outside the City Building. “I don’t think so.” LIKEWISE, LES BABES..... WHEN YOU DRIVE INTO THE CITY, AND YOU SEE EMPTY, GREENSPACES ALL OVER THE CITY, LOOKING LIKE SOME DESERTED GHOST TOWN, DOES IT MAKE YOU WANT TO MOVE YOUR FAMILY HERE....... WORKS BOTH WAYS. ONE THING TO KNOCK DOWN EVERYTHING IN SIGHT......ANOTHER TO REPLACE THE EMPTY LOT LEFT BEHIND AND THIS CITY IS NOT DOING THAT. THE CITY IS ONLY SOLVING HALF THE PROBLEM AND CALLING IT QUITS. YOU HAVE YOUR LITTLE PLANS TO KNOCK 'EM DOWN. WHAT IS YOUR PLAN TO REPLACE? AND MULLIGAN, HAVING BLIGHTED HOUSES KNOCKED DOWN IS ALRIGHT BUT HAVING EMPTY LOTS IN THEIR PLACE SURELY ISN'T GOING TO INCREASE PROPERTY VALUES AS YOU MAY HOPE. JUST AS UNSIGHTLY IN A DIFFERENT ASPECT. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 7:25am
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Anyone with an ability to think knows this offers absolutely no solution to Middletown's chronic and irreversible woes. Assuming you took out 10% of stock, its will continue to increase as time goes by. As stated earlier, when you have lost so much demand in the market for property in Middletown, it will take depleting (removing) 75% of stock to elevate home prices.Simply maintaining pace with CPI (inflation) is all that you could expect in the absolute nicest areas in Middletown. Factoring in future present value, most don't know their house would have to sell for double to break even with what they paid 15-20 years ago. Its selling at less than what was paid two decades today. I know of countless examples. So, this knock-down will not accomplish anything, but help out Martin and others, whom the city throws some cash to for their support. It will be thrown downtown to raise the Main Street values (although demand will not rise- another fallacy in their thinking, but what else is new). This is an outcome when your city has no economic development strategy or know-how, and relies on state and fed funds as a revenue generator. Someone should put a new video up on youtube showing Ms. G, LL, DA, and council doing cartwheels. They won the lottery as all else has failed to have any impact on funds, so its plan B---the fed trough of handouts to state. So much for Butler Cty and the phony baloney of the Tea Party influence. Middletown has high taxes, terrible services, an ill school district, bad reputation, failing streets and sewers, and about 10 other very serious problems. For that Mr. Landen, your match on state funds using federal HUD dollars, required about $250 Mm in cash. But who knows, maybe its buried out in a coffee can by the airport runway, and you can leverage it for more bail out money to make Middletwn rise like a Phoexnix, out of its burning ambers. The land bank provides no traction, but when you are on soma as in Brave New World, there simply are no problems. Click both heels, .and wait a few seconds. Shut your eyes. There it is, I can see it. We all are back home in Kansas. It wasn't real, just a horrible nightmare. The Wizard of Oz brought us home. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 8:56am
| I don't bother watching most of the council meetings, but is anyone mentioning the savior that is the East End. What the heck is going on out there? Is there any developer involved anymore? For all the chatter about 5 years ago about how our success will be driven by the East End it sure is quiet. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 9:49am
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Bill, the efforts are there, Robinette, others; the market interest is not. All hyped when it began, then reality sets in. Same will be with the effects of the Land Bank. Hype in beginning, "property values will rise." Reality sets in- no net positive sum gain. Same hype, same outcome. Failure. If they can't take money washed in the General Fund from HUD, what will they do...take $1.2 Mm from a successful public safety levy to destroy property? This council is like a group of very poor golfers. They take mulligans on every hole, and hold back the players behind them (the citizens progress), while they dabble on the tee each hole trying to keep the ball out of the rough. They miss hit, take a mulligan, and do it on every hole. These actions are not something that builds a legacy Mr. Mulligan and the foursome you play (actually the five-some, but Ann Mort just is the caddy). It used to be council would say the city manager and staff take the lead on affairs, and they choose to approve/ disapprove, referring to council. It appears when Main Street is involved, that doesn't hold consistent. Well, this is the result when you have attorneys whom practice before city employees acting as judge and magistrate, and two sons had a father work in the city water department. They protect the city employees, not your welfare common citizen. June 21, 2012 Betsy Parr Clerk of City Council One Donham Plaza Middletown, OH 45042 Dear Mrs. Parr: This is to request that you call a special meeting of the Middletown City Council on Tuesday, June 26, 2012 at 6:30 p.m. in the City Council Chambers. Council will convene and receive and file the Special Meeting Documents. They will then consider a motion to direct the City Manager to prepare materials to participate in the Moving Ohio Forward Grant Program and will consider legislation authorizing the same as well as legislation authorizing signing the Memorandum of Understanding with the Butler County Land Reutilization Corporation for the cooperative acquisition and banking of nonproductive real property in Middletown. Sincerely, Lawrence P. Mulligan, Jr. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 10:58am
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What those 4 done last night was nothing but another smack in the face to the taxpayers.Just shows people what happens behinde closed doors at the city building.
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Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 2:56pm
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acclaro,
While I agree with others that the city handled this legislation is a very poor manner, I must disagree with your assessment that the land banking provides no solution to Middletown's woes. If I'm not mistaken, the first land bank was established in Genesee County Michigan about 8 years ago and has been so successful, that many states, counties, and minicipalities are scrambling to copy the concept. Below, are exerpts of an article that I found on the subject. As you will see, there are many listed benefits and I can think of others that are not listed. Land Bank Benefits While abandoned and vacant properties depress property values, discourage property ownership, and attract criminal activities in the surrounding area, a land bank provides tools to quickly turn these tax-reverted properties back into usable parcels that reinvest in the community's long-term vision for its neighborhoods. Land bank programs act as an economic and community development tool to revitalize blighted neighborhoods and business districts. Land banks can benefit urban schools, improve tax revenues, expand housing opportunities, remove public nuisances, assist in crime prevention and promote economic development. By transferring vacant and abandoned properties to responsible land owners through a land bank program, local governments benefit because they avoid the significant cost burden of property maintenance, like mowing and snow removal, as part of their nuisance abatement responsibilities. In addition, local governments benefit from increased revenue because the new property owners pay taxes on the property. Also, the local schools benefit because they receive more funding when there is an increase in property owners in their school districts. Land bank programs can increase the variety of mixed-income housing offered and provide more opportunities for affordable housing. Also, land bank properties, which become owner-occupied, discourage criminal activit thereby benefiting public safety and decreasing the cost burden on the local police and fire departments. Finally, the more residents and businesses that occupy property in a neighborhood, the more services and amenities will be needed, which boosts local economic activity. Case Study: Michigan's Land Banking Enabling Legislation To better understand how land bank programs work, it is helpful to review a case study. Following is a case study of Michigan's Land Bank Enabling Legislation and Michigan's Genesee County land bank program. It is important to first review a State's particular Land Bank Enabling Legislation because these laws provide land bank programs with the legal and financial tools needed to operate and maintain a land bank. Prior to January 2004, Michigan's tax foreclosure laws on abandoned properties were ineffective because local governments did not have the authority to effectively manage tax-reverted land and prevent blight. Now, Michigan has one of the most progressive land banking laws in the nation. In January 2004, Governor Granholm signed into law the Land Bank Fast Track Legislation, Public Act (PA) 258, to provide communities with better legal and financial tools to put vacant and abandoned properties back into productive use. This law establishes a state land bank authority while also enabling the establishment of city and county land bank authorities. In addition, the law permits these authorities to expedite quiet title on properties, which it possesses, and make them available at nominal prices for productive reuse in the community. The quiet title process is a legal action that eliminates all liens and past claims on a property and clears the title so a new owner may purchase the property without worrying about any unresolved claims. In conjunction with PA 258, the Governor also signed into law four other related Public Acts: PA 259 amends the Michigan Brownfield Redevelopment Act to allow any land bank authority owned property to be defined as "blighted property", which enables a tax increment financing board to provide assistance to a land bank authority with clearing or quieting a title, and disposing of property owned or held by a land bank authority. PA 261 creates the Property Tax Exemption Act, which exempts property, with titles held by land bank authority, from taxes and exempts property sold by a land bank authority from general property taxes for five years. PA 260 creates the Tax Reverted Clean Title Act to impose a specific tax, which would have the same rate of general property taxes for five years, on property sold by a land bank fast track authority. While one half of the revenue from this specific tax funds an authority's title clearance and land disposition costs, the remaining half is earmarked for local and state collecting units on a pro-rata basis. PA 263 amends the General Property Tax Act to permit a foreclosing governmental unit to request a title product other than an unreliable title search to identify the owners of tax delinquent properties at the time of foreclosure and describe a reasonable process for identifying these owners and providing public notice to them. Michigan's Genesee County Land Bank In Michigan, Genesee County has been a leader in creating a successful land banking program. Under the Genesee County Land Bank Authority, tax foreclosed properties are held for a period of time before being returned to the market. This allows for the grouping of parcels together to provide a more attractive resale opportunity and the assessment of potential property owners to ensure that they will contribute to the long-term vision of the community. The Genesee County Land Bank Authority has acquired title to more than 3400 land parcels, including nearly 6% in the City of Flint in the first three years of the program. They have successfully transferred 130 foreclosed tenant occupied properties to non-profit housing agencies, whose goal is to stabilize neighborhoods and encourage home ownership. In addition, the LBA has redeveloped a 30,000 sq. ft. mixed use building in downtown Flint, which has been empty since 1980, and they have assembled hundreds of empty lots for city development projects and local non-profit and community organization projects. Land Banks as a Smart Growth Planning Tool While other cities' land bank programs, like St. Louis, have been used primarily as a fiscal tool to stimulate growth in their communities, Genesee County's land bank program has been used as a planning tool to align with their communities' long-term redevelopment plans that provide the greatest benefit. When Michigan's Governor Granholm signed the latest land bank legislation in 2004, she said, "Together these new laws will help local planning officials to look at an entire area or region when developing land use plans." In addition, the Governor said, "To make headway against urban sprawl, we must think regionally and use new tools." Land bank programs are one of these smart growth tools that counter sprawl and revitalize the inner core of Michigan's cities. Based on Governor Granholm's state-wide smart growth goals, it is imperative that Michigan communities focus on city and region-wide planning instead of just fiscal objectives when implementing land bank programs. GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 3:17pm
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GG...
"While I agree with others that the city handled this legislation is a very poor manner, I must disagree with your assessment that the land banking provides no solution to Middletown's woes. If I'm not mistaken, the first land bank was established in Genesee County Michigan about 8 years ago and has been so successful, that many states, counties, and minicipalities are scrambling to copy the concept. Below, are exerpts of an article that I found on the subject. As you will see, there are many listed benefits and I can think of others that are not listed" That's right GG. Under NORMAL circumstances, this Land Bank idea may work for 99 44/100 of the communities including Genesee County Michigan. HOWEVER, keep in mind, this is Middletown and with Middletown you get city leaders who have a track record of screwing up most of what they try. Time will tell how well the city leaders will do on accomplishing success on this program (or where the money actually went when we discover they used it for other purposes) I would imagine most who can evaluate the city leaders and have a knowledge of their accomplishments, would come to the conclusion that, given time, they will add to their mistakes through sheer incompetence. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 3:40pm
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GG, I respect your opinion. If I may clarify my point, I'd like to distinguish Middletown for the Michigan case study. My only problem with this investment, is Middletown has enormous other problems it is facing, the least of which is it is running (so it says), near a deficit. Its rainy day surplus used to be 25%, that is now drained to 15%. There are tax levies coming forth, and its infrastructure, road system, and general population appeal, is sinking. Therefore, it is without justification, that the city will take $1.2 Mm in capital, and as I understand it, admittedly, I am not a HUD/ NSP expert nor will exert the effort to become one, out of the General Fund, when they openly state they are going broke. If they are going broke, who pays for fire/ police, or do they think the public will absorb that expense, based upon funds they don't have, on some opinion there is leverage? Granted, if Middletown has $15 Mm in surplus, and a targeted plan, it may be worth the investment, if nothing else, to stimulate the local economy. But they don't. Considering all factors, I simply see no justification for this added capital burden on a strained system, but I also admit, I am relying on the truthfulness of city council. Perhaps that is my error in judgment. I see no reason for this expenditure when they state they need a tax levy, when they used funds from public safety elsewhere, when the last levy was passed. That is the issue I have with this arrangement. It tends to destroy city credibility when espousing you are going broke, and then vote 4-0 (with 3 members obviously not wanting to be part of this effort), to spend $1.2 Mm you say you don't have. If you can explain that logic, I am all ears (or eyes). If I am wrong and the city can use federal HUD funds as a match, then why not put those funds to work on roads. This once again, appears on face, to be FIRE, READY, AIM. It would be worthwhile if they had a history of occasionally, hitting the intended target. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 3:52pm
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VV,
I'm sure that this is where we differ. Based on my limited amount of time following the city council, I am taking them at their word. They are on record that these funds will "ONLY" be used for this, specific, purpose and that they will only take possesion of the properties for a "BREIF" amount of time. I'm assuming that your experience tells you that it won't happen that way. For everybody's sake, let's hope that I am right on this one..... that stakes are big. GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 5:01pm
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greygoose, Here is the problem with taking this council at its word. The funds that they are transferring were designated for a specific purpose. Suddenly, when something else comes along, the "specific purpose" is shunted aside for the new purpose. That's why there is so much confusion about funding in Middletown and so little trust in government. Funds that are designated for a specific purpose suddenly become available for something else. We play the shell game and transfer funds from one account to another until it no one can decipher which funds are designated for what project. If they tear down 300 homes in Middletown, not only will our neighborhoods look like war zones, but you'll be beat to death traveling on the roads through those neighborhoods. Does anyone realize what Middletown will look like with bare property in the middle of a street? Why isn't this money being used to leverage rehabilitation instead of demolition? Do you honestly think that people are going to want to buy the remaining homes when there are empty lots next to them? You also need to understand that a "brief" amount of time doesn't have any meaning here. Look at all the downtown real estate purchased for Cincinnati State and then realize it wasn't bought for that project at all; it was purchased so city council can determine the "outcome"!!! You bet the stakes are big!!! When every levy goes down to defeat because Middletown was able to come up with funds to tear down buildings but doesn't have the money to pay for public safety, what do you think will happen then? |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 6:11pm
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TonyB, you make an excellent point which I want to amplify. The program is targeting for markets that have enormous problems in establishing market demand. Therefore, the solution, which arguably, is not even a band-aid, is to destroy capacity. In turn, some how, the economic theorists like Les Landen, which is not a macro-economist, states destruction of supply will spur elevation of valuation. That point, and fallacy, I have already made, as what remains unresolved, and simply, not properly focused, is the underlying need for demand. And therein is the problem. Taking down houses in Middletown does nothing for demand, but diminishes supply. If there was a reduction by 50% in supply, it would do nothing to elevate demand and valuation. A vacant lot isn't going to stimulate demand, in terms of new construction. There is an empty house now for two years, right across from Bill Triik who heads Middletown's Chamber of Commerce. Tearing down that house won't increase his valuation, as there is a glut of stable over-capacity around him. Until Middletown can increase demand, which is highly unlikely, this program will accomplish nothing. And, it deploys capital that can be used for other purposes, into destruction that impacts only supply, but does not elevate demand. If anything, some % of funding should go to raising demand, but that is marketing, and heavy lifting, that the city cannot seem to ever get traction. The slow drip has become a fast drip, and exodus, with AK, Atrium, and others leaving. There has been no back-fill. Therein is the problem. You bring up another good point on stabilization, but I am not certain if you mean stabilization associated with helping individuals avoid foreclosure or stimulating demand as you call it---rehabilitation. If I think I comprehend your term, the problem in that regard is quite simple. And that is you are using funds to fix up property that demand is just not there, in spite of the upgrades, and done at a capital loss, as the figures have shown. In reality, the rehabilitation efforts have driven valuation down, because the money put in makes that property, a more appealing acquisition target in a market full of over-supply, and just drives other property down associated with the investment in upgrades which aren't absorbed nor reflected, in higher price point. This vicious cycle will never cease until demand increases. That is the chronic problem city leaders and council don't comprehend, and they simply don't know how to create market demand. Rather,its their practices causing just the opposite, by lowering demand through higher taxation, no services, high water costs, and the other problems well documented. Pushing a ton rock uphill by yourself at 90 degrees is an impossible task to accomplish. That is the demand problem Middletown has, the weight, the anchor, and the incline...just too steep to navigate and make progress and gain traction. One step forward, and four steps back, never gets the city up the hill to the summit. And so it continues. Ever get your car stuck in snow 12 inches deep, and can't get out, the tires just spinning, going nowhere? That is Middletown's housing market. Demand is the removal of snow and a pull by a pick up truck to get back on dry asphalt. Supply fixation is plowing the main roads and awaiting for the temperature to rise in a few weeks, to melt the snow, to get your car moving again on a side road not plowed. Applying the wrong tool, and wrong use of capital to focus upon the wrong end of the problem. As Bill Clinton would say, " its the demand stupid." (not supply) Without demand, there will be a lot of houses being torn down...about 80% of Middletown---or the fire sale, which drives valuation downward. .Snow too deep, or quicksand, but the result is the same. You can't get traction, and just spin aimlessly. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 6:23pm
|
At the June 19th Council meeting, Mr. Adkins
clearly stated that the matching funds would be coming out of the General Fund. At last evening’s meeting, Les Landen clearly stated that “there
will be no transfer of funds” and that they were only “re-allocating” money but
that the monies are all “being used from the funds they are in”. It is perfectly clear that we have $1.1 million in the
General Fund that, with a little bit of “shuffling”, could be UN-allocated!!! Doesn’t anyone remember all of the crying and hand-wringing
last fall during the 2012 budget process when we were trying to find money to
avoid laying off police and firefighters, yet we had $1.1 million that could
easily have become UN-allocated and available to use!!! Doesn’t anyone remember all of the crying and hand-wringing
last fall during the 2012 budget process when we were trying to find money for
Councilman Laubach’s Street fund yet we had $1.1 million that could easily have
become UN-allocated and available to use!!! Doesn’t anyone remember all of the crying and hand-wringing
last fall during the 2012 budget process when we were trying to find money to
avoid deficit spending and to avoid spending down our cash reserves, yet we had
$1.1 million that could easily have become UN-allocated and available to use!!! Doesn’t anyone remember all of the crying and hand-wringing
last fall during the 2012 budget process when they discussed adding a FEE to
our water bills to pay for STREET LIGHTING (including the power for the 45 new, historically
inaccurate lights for the S. Main St. Historic District), yet we had
$1.1 million that could easily have become UN-allocated and available to use!!! Doesn’t anyone remember all of the crying and hand-wringing
last fall during the 2012 budget process when we were told that there is
definitely a DEFICIT projected for the General Fund for 2013??? Doesn’t anyone remember even
the last regular Council meeting on June 19, when our “Tax Budget” projected a 2013 General
Fund DEFICIT of $2,176,225, yet we are now told that we have $1,100,000 that could be UN-allocated, and CARRIED FORWARD to CUT THAT DEFICIT IN HALF!!! In just a month or two, Council and City staff will begin
the 2013 budget discussions. Who wants
to bet on when the CRYING and HAND-WRINGING over how broke we are will begin??? Who wants to bet whether we will be told there will be
enough money for public safety or infrastructure—the FIRST TWO purposes of
municipal government??? Who wants to bet whether or not we will be forced into
deficit spending, and must spend down our rainy day cash reserves??? Who wants to bet whether or not there will be additional
fees, taxes, increases in charges for City services, Speed Limit enforcement
cameras, etc., discussed to increase revenue to the General Fund??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 6:36pm
|
Acclaro, You are, of
course, correct. City Hall just
does not understand supply and demand. There is a “niche market” in Middletown for arts, antiques, and what I refer to as the “olde tyme high life”. That niche market is very passionate, and that is admirable. However, it includes some at City Hall, and a few of their friends, and they think that by keeping ALL OTHER BUSINESSES away, they will somehow be creating a much greater demand, and thereby will follow more of the stuff that they want. They can’t understand that it just doesn’t work that way and, in fact, keeping other businesses and industry away has just the opposite of the effect that they desire. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 6:38pm
|
Now now Mike We must have misunderstood Mr. Becker during the December 2011 City Council Meeting when he said “MIDDLETOWN IS GOING BROKE”.
|
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 6:38pm
|
Well...not really. Assuredly Larry Mulligan and the council just think the public will approve the unneeded public safety levy, and they'll take that cash or a portion of it, to use for the matching grant, or replace the funds they advance themselves, from HUD. So the shell game fix is taken care of by the levy. But, the levy goes down, a close eye kept on the HUD funds which HUD audits, and its a perspiration stare down at Donham Abby. Why pass a needless levy when they clearly have the money to waste, and took funds previously from the public safety funds. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 6:42pm
|
TonyB,
I understand your argument concerning the council’s history of diverting funds from their intended use and I also just witnessed our Mayor reversing a council decision because the result of the vote did not agree with his position. I am, in no way, trying to justify those issues. I am on record that the re-vote was just plain wrong and “if” the funds are not used as promised, I will be at the front of the line pushing for their removal come election day. With that said, I absolutely disagree with your perception that these demolitions will leave neighborhoods looking like war zones. We are told that they will start with the most impactful properties; the worst of the worst. When I hear those words, I interpret them as properties that are “beyond” rehabilitation. I have been a real estate investor for many years and, since my recent retirement, it is how I earn a living. I can tell you with 100% certainty that there are many dozens of homes in this city that are beyond rehabilitation. In other words, it would cost more to rehabilitate the properties than they are worth. What I envision from this program are blighted homes being demolished and the resulting “land” being split between the adjacent property owners as “side yards”. This process would turn an existing eyesore that was costing the city money to maintain into a property that would be maintained by its new owners who would also pay real estate taxes on it. I, personally, have two properties that are directly adjacent to vacant, “junk”, homes and would be thrilled if the city tore them down and “gave” me half or all of the land. I would be happy to pay the additional taxes in return for the “asset” and overall increased property value. Where there are several blighted properties together, the possibility of new construction is also possible (but much less likely). If things go as I hope, there will be 300+ properties that that will no longer cost the city money to maintain and, in its place, there will be 300+ parcels in which real estate taxes are collected not to mention the additional real estate taxes collected from the appreciation of thousands of neighboring properties. I know that there are many on this thread that disagree with that assessment but, if it is happening elsewhere, I see no reason that it won’t work in our hometown. At least….let’s hope so! GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 6:42pm
|
If the city is able to match the $1.1 million in grants, Community Revitalization Director Doug Adkins said 300 vacant and abandoned homes — about 10 percent of its such properties — would be demolished by Dec. 31, 2013. He said the city is in the process of identifying possible dilapidated homes to be leveled. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 6:44pm
|
Gee, do you mean to tell me that you think there still may be nearly $3 MILLION from the LAST "public safety" levy "tucked
away" somewhere??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 6:57pm
|
Heres a little history lesson about what caused much of the blight in large Cities
REDLINING Redlining is the practice of arbitrarily denying or limiting http://encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/1050.html## - - New Deal's Home Owners' Loan Corporation (HOLC) instituted a redlining policy by developing color-coded maps of American cities that used racial criteria to categorize lending and insurance risks. New, affluent, racially homogeneous housing areas received green lines while black and poor white neighborhoods were often circumscribed by red lines denoting their undesirability. Banks and insurers soon adopted the HOLC's maps and practices to guide lending and underwriting decisions. Further, the Federal Housing Administration, created in 1934, also used the HOLC's methods to assess locations for federally insured new housing construction. Like other forms of discrimination, redlining had pernicious and damaging effects. Without bank loans and insurance, redlined areas lacked the capital essential for investment and redevelopment. As a result, after http://encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/1384.html - Redlining's negative effects remained largely unrecognized by policymakers until the mid-1960s. http://encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/108.html - - Home Mortgage Disclosure Act of 1975 required the release of data on bank lending. Unsatisfied by the practical results of these laws, community activists in D. Bradford Hunt |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 7:00pm
|
First, the “land
bank legislation” has not yet passed!!!
Last evening was just the first reading.
All that passed was authorization to submit a “letter of commitment” to
Butler County. (Of course it will pass, with four MMF-ers firmly on board.) Next, you people
seem to somehow think that they are only going to demolish “houses”. You obviouly have forgotten that two lawyers
from City Hall are involved. They have
included a list of “definitions” for the purposes on this legislation. As I recall, they have defined “single family
residential” as having no more than FOUR residential units. Hmm…I wonder how
many apartments the Studio Theater or the Sorg Opera house have upstairs??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 7:12pm
|
GG, I man no disrespect, but you sound like Nancy Nix on your postulation. Do you actually think a property owner would desire to accumulate property vacated, and add that cost to the valuation at 35% from the county? If so, I recommend you find another avenue to supplement your retirement income, but investment strategies is not one of them. This year alone, there are 10,000 cases before the OHIO BTA associated with property tax appeals originating from the BOR in Ohio counties. Simply adding land does nothing to stimulate demand, and therefore, valuation. All one would be stimulating is more artificially elevated valuation by land, but the price point on selling the land, will not rise when including it in the property. 4500 sq ft on 3.5 acres now in Middletown sells for about $150,000., so no one in their right mind, from a business acumen perspective, would absorb land thinking it pumps up their property value. And I assure you, 99% of Middletown home owners, and commercial owners as well, understand that. They would have no interest in absorbing the land, so the city will have it, and pay no taxes on it, and it will sit, and sit....just like the C State property will. And with land, there is still mowing costs weekly. So, what is gained from the destruction of property? Vandalism reduction? There are more concerns about home invasions in Middletown, than vandalism to property vacated. And the upkeep on mowing will be a city responsibility. While you might buy the property, the vast majority will not, because of the burden of taxation with no upside return. You need to begin thinking like an economist, not a CPA accountant, with all due respect. Well, everyone should now know what the MMF business plan would be focused, and that is how to make $$$ off the buildings the city buys, and what return they will get. The cartel that drove the car into the ditch, now is driving your car into the ditch. And no one knows why there isn't market demand in Middletown? ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 7:49pm
|
To all,
The following excerpts were taken from an article written in the Pittsburgh Quarterly titled: “The Cost of Blight”. Although Philadelphia is a much larger city, the same principles hold true. Below, is a link to the entire article……. It is a very good read. Philadelphia is one place that has examined those costs, and the 2010 study it commissioned offers some idea of the economic toll vacant and abandoned properties imposes on communities. The news isn’t good for property owners in the city of 1.5 million people. Vacant property reduces market values by 6.5 percent citywide and by as much as 20 percent in neighborhoods with the most empty lots and structures. The report estimates that 17,000 vacant properties are tax delinquent and rob the city of $2 million in tax revenue each year. Vacant properties also consume $20 million in city services a year, $8 million of which is spent on code enforcement and maintenance, such as boarding up buildings or demolishing them. The impact of vacant property extends beyond economic loss. Its role in unraveling the quality of life in a neighborhood and dimming the outlook of its residents is well documented. Nothing signals neglect and disinvestment more than a street peppered with empty, overgrown lots and abandoned houses. Not only do neighborhood residents get the message, but the larger community gets it as well. And once that happens, restoring community pride and engagement and convincing others to come in and invest becomes a much taller order. - - http://www.pittsburghquarterly.com/index.php/Region/the-cost-of-blight/All-Pages.html GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 7:52pm
|
"The cartel that drove the car into the ditch, now is driving your car into the ditch. And no one knows why there isn't market demand in Middletown?" They think that, by driving everyone's cars into the ditch, they will create a demand for more ditches.
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 7:56pm
|
"...$8 million of which is spent on code enforcement and maintenance, such as boarding up buildings or demolishing them." So, they think that by demolishing them, they will save money by not having to demolish them???  ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 8:14pm
|
GG, I man no disrespect, but you sound like Nancy Nix on your postulation. Do you actually think a property owner would desire to accumulate property vacated, and add that cost to the valuation at 35% from the county? If so, I recommend you find another avenue to supplement your retirement income, but investment strategies is not one of them . This year alone, there are 10,000 cases before the OHIO BTA associated with property tax appeals originating from the BOR in Ohio counties. Simply adding land does nothing to stimulate demand, and therefore, valuation. All one would be stimulating is more artificially elevated valuation by land, but the price point on selling the land, will not rise when including it in the property. 4500 sq ft on 3.5 acres now in Middletown sells for about $150,000., so no one in their right mind, from a business acumen perspective, would absorb land thinking it pumps up their property value. And I assure you, 99% of Middletown home owners, and commercial owners as well, understand that. They would have no interest in absorbing the land, so the city will have it, and pay no taxes on it, and it will sit, and sit....just like the C State property will.
And with land, there is still mowing costs weekly. So, what is gained from the destruction of property? Vandalism reduction? There are more concerns about home invasions in Middletown, than vandalism to property vacated. And the upkeep on mowing will be a city responsibility. While you might buy the property, the vast majority will not, because of the burden of taxation with no upside return. You need to begin thinking like an economist, not a CPA accountant, with all due respect. Well, everyone should now know what the MMF business plan would be focused, and that is how to make $$$ off the buildings the city buys, and what return they will get. The cartel that drove the car into the ditch, now is driving your car into the ditch. And no one knows why there isn't market demand in Middletown? acclaro, I retired at the age of 50 and enjoy a six figure income from my real estate investments (90% of which are in Middletown). Unless you can state the same, I don’t need your advice when it comes to making sound real estate decisions. Your economic analysis makes sense EXCEPT it doesn’t account for the increased valuation as a result of removing the blight from your neighborhood. In addition, and over time, the demand that is lacking will come as a result. I said nothing about simply adding land…. I said that I would be adding land while removing nearby blight. That is the part that you obviously don’t understand. With all due respect…. this is what I know and if 99% Middletown homebuyers agree with you, then the odds are stacked in my favor. You should stick to business & leave the real estate to the pros. GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 8:23pm
|
acclaro, I retired at the age of 50 and enjoy a six figure income from my real estate investments (90% of which are in Middletown). Unless you can state the same, I don’t need your advice when it comes to making sound real estate decisions. Your economic analysis makes sense EXCEPT it doesn’t account for the increased valuation as a result of removing the blight from your neighborhood. In addition, and over time, the demand that is lacking will come as a result. I said nothing about simply adding land…. I said that I would be adding land while removing nearby blight. That is the part that you obviously don’t understand. With all due respect…. this is what I know and if 99% Middletown homebuyers agree with you, then the odds are stacked in my favor. You should stick to business & leave the real estate to the pros. GGWOW |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 9:49pm
|
GG, having spent 5 years in PWC's Global merger/ acquisition practice doing due diligence on corporate acquisitions, I think I know a few things or two, about how to quantify valuation. I won't boast, but the numbers you reference are not even an associate level within these firms, let alone Partner level in top tier firms, I have been a senior partner at McKinsey and PWC, lets leave it at that on income. As for real estate pro, there is no upscale renatl property in Middletown. You own rentals, most are slum landlords. You aren't the guy who bought the Booth property on Rosedale are you, that's been empty for 3 months. If so, get a paint job on the two story colonial, that house is a mess. They moved to Springboro and knew when to get out of Middletown. Wofford is a party school, and anyone can get it with money. Furmon is far superior. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 10:28pm
|
The Top Ten Things You’ll Never Hear A Consultant Say
10. “You’re right; we’re billing way too much for this.” 9. “Bet you I can go a week without saying “synergy” or “value-added”. 8. “How about paying us based on the success of the project?” 7. “This whole strategy is based on a Furman economics case I read.” 6. “Actually, the only difference is that we charge more than they do.” 5. “I don’t know enough to speak intelligently about that.” 4. “Implementation? I only care about writing long reports.” 3. “I can’t take the credit. It was Ed in your purchasing department.” 2. “The problem is, you have too much work for too few people.” 1. “Everything looks okay to me.” GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 10:36pm
------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 27 2012 at 10:57pm
|
I have
just expended the effort to re-read every post that Greygoose has made on this
forum, and had concluded my previous conclusion that Greygoose was actually Mr.
Adkins was in error. When I returned to post this
admission, and saw this recent exchange between he and Acclaro, I think that my
new conclusion is confirmed!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 9:42am
Mike: HINT- Need to build his own legacy, Father in Real Estate and Development, Need to Leave To Build his own Empire. "Blight" was the giveaway word. They just give him the talking points. His motivation- investments, to build what he could not in the south. And he thought Middletown was a better opportunity? I got in with a business partner early in HHI, I know a few things about real estate. DA complicit, but you had it right the first time. Carry on Dr. Watson.  ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 11:28am
|
I have just expended the effort to re-read every post that Greygoose has made on this forum, and had concluded my previous conclusion that Greygoose was actually Mr. Adkins was in error.
When I returned to post this admission, and saw this recent exchange between he and Acclaro, I think that my new conclusion is confirmed!!! MikeP, I’m most definitely not Mr. Adkins. I am a citizen, like you, that just wants the best for his hometown. Yesterday, I posted an excerpt that I read from the Pittsburgh Quarterly that really sums up my advocacy for the Moving Ohio Forward program. The impact of vacant property extends beyond economic loss. Its role in unraveling the quality of life in a neighborhood and dimming the outlook of its residents is well documented. Nothing signals neglect and disinvestment more than a street peppered with empty, overgrown lots and abandoned houses. Not only do neighborhood residents get the message, but the larger community gets it as well. And once that happens, restoring community pride and engagement and convincing others to come in and invest becomes a much taller order. We can disagree on what should be the priority for our city or the tactics used to fund those priorities but I seriously doubt that you don’t see the truth in the above statement. I truly understand that the city has other, pressing, needs. It is just “my” belief that this issue is the priority because, if not addressed, restoring community pride will be next to impossible to achieve and without it, what do you really have. For the record, I have a lot of respect for acclaro’s opinion’s and have stated so. Yesterday, I felt that his response to my opinion crossed the “courtesy & respect” line and just wanted to remind him of such. Nothing more & nothing less. GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 11:57am
|
Wofford is a swell school, my son almost went there before hitting Davidson instead. I'd find my fame in fortune down around KI, Charleston, or Corolla on the OB, but not Middletown. There is no place nor respect for a surrogate doing the bidding for DA, especially one venturing from W to seek fame and fortune.
------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 12:06pm
|
acclaro,
Are the Wofford comments directed toward me? GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 12:35pm
|
acclaro,
I get it…. first you thought that I was AJ Smith and now you think that I am Patrick Kay. I’ve been giving you way too much credit. I really don’t know why it matters. Why is it that someone with a varying opinion must be an “insider” or a “plant”? I tried to provide you proof one other time when I stated that I worked for Spider’s father in a south Dayton suburb back in the mid 70’s. Do you think that this is something that Patrick Kay would know? Based on his LinkedIn Profile, he was wasn’t yet born. I am nothing more than a citizen with strong roots to this city. Almost my entire family worked in “the mill” and I have the old yellow, plastic, flashlights to prove it. This town has treated me well over the years and I only hope that it has a prosperous future. There is no other agenda ……… get over it. GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 12:50pm
|
Easy "head-fake." Personally, I would have chosen CoC, Citadel, or Presbyterian College. http://youtu.be/IsXynepjTvc ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 1:06pm
|
Greygoose: The cost to the taxpayers EVERY YEAR for extra fake,
historically inaccurate lights on South Main Street will be enough to demolish
one additional blighted house. You say
that demolishing the blighted houses is more important than repairing our
streets. Do you agree that demolishing
blighted houses is more important than fake gas lights on S. Main St.??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 1:47pm
|
Greygoose: I think that
if you go back through my posts you will not find even one instance where I
spoke against removing blight. Where
that activity should rank on our city’s list of priorities is a whole other,
lengthy discussion. My gripe has
been that, once AGAIN the same people who say that we are broke and that there
is no money available (whether it be for streets, police, firefighters, sewers,
or a large vat of hot tar and truckload of feathers) have sudden “found” a big
wad of dough when it was needed for something that the “right” people want to
do ...
AGAIN!!! That and the fact that,
when it happened, NO ONE sitting behind the curvy counter even raised an
eyebrow…AGAIN!!! Perhaps you’ve
noticed that I’ve used the phrase “tucked away in one of our other accounts” in
quotes. That is because it actually is
an exact quote…of words spoken by the previous Finance Director a few years ago
when a previous Council had backed themselves into a similar corner. He proudly stated during a council meeting that
he had just found $350,000 “tucked away in one of our other accounts” and no
one in the room batted an eyelash. (I
was watching at home and nearly soiled my pants.) If I recall correctly, he “found” it right
after a tax levy that council was counting on had failed. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 1:49pm
|
Goose is obviously not one of the city team or a plant.
Obviously I either know him or know of him. We should be happy that he is sharing his thinking with us. We should all learn from each other, and we have never had much problem With disagreeing around here. Land banking? I have no clue Don't understand how tearing down so many old houses and leaving empty lots will help much in the near future. We have serious immediate issues that are being ignored conveniently, with land banking being our savior dujour. Surely would help if we could all get along and work together. Like Mr.A, but don't know if he can pull it off legally. The others down there---????? |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 2:33pm
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Greygoose:
I think that if you go back through my posts you will not find even one instance where I spoke against removing blight. Where that activity should rank on our city’s list of priorities is a whole other, lengthy discussion. My gripe has been that, once AGAIN the same people who say that we are broke and that there is no money available (whether it be for streets, police, firefighters, sewers, or a large vat of hot tar and truckload of feathers) have sudden “found” a big wad of dough when it was needed for something that the “right” people want to do ...AGAIN!!! That and the fact that, when it happened, NO ONE sitting behind the curvy counter even raised an eyebrow…AGAIN!!! Perhaps you’ve noticed that I’ve used the phrase “tucked away in one of our other accounts” in quotes. That is because it actually is an exact quote…of words spoken by the previous Finance Director a few years ago when a previous Council had backed themselves into a similar corner. He proudly stated during a council meeting that he had just found $350,000 “tucked away in one of our other accounts” and no one in the room batted an eyelash. (I was watching at home and nearly soiled my pants.) If I recall correctly, he “found” it right after a tax levy that council was counting on had failed. MikeP, I absolutely understand the point that you are making and do not dispute it. If you’ve read my recent posts, you will see that I was trying to support the “cause” but not the manner in which it was being supported (because I don’t). I am just trying to make sure that my viewpoint on the city’s leadership has a strong basis in fact. Keep throwing it out there…… your comments have more effect on me than you may think. Any statement that causes me to “ponder” my current opinion is a good thing and as I have stated before, my opinions continue to evolve because I am fairly new in this arena. GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 2:55pm
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Goose is obviously not one of the city team or a plant.
Obviously I either know him or know of him. We should be happy that he is sharing his thinking with us. We should all learn from each other, and we have never had much problem With disagreeing around here. Land banking? I have no clue Don't understand how tearing down so many old houses and leaving empty lots will help much in the near future. We have serious immediate issues that are being ignored conveniently, with land banking being our savior dujour. Surely would help if we could all get along and work together. Like Mr.A, but don't know if he can pull it off legally. The others down there---????? Spider, Based on past statements that you have made on this board, I am pretty comfortable that you are not hiding your identity to any great degree. With that said, I’ll let you know that we have met but do not know each other. If I am correct about your identity, your father opened a satellite operation in a south Dayton suburb in which I lived in the mid 70’s. The whole community was “buzzing” about a unique industry concept that I believe your father invented that took customer service to a whole new level. I was privileged to work for him. I appreciate your comments. I enjoy the exchange of ideas that this forum provides and will do my best to keep things civil. Don’t be surprised if someone taps you on the shoulder in the near future and introduces himself as Mr. Greygoose. GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 3:08pm
| Acclaro- Nice to here some one local hitting the books at Davidson. Sibling teaches there. I would encourage all to again contact your councilman and let them know that a vote is a vote. Beyond disappointed in this decision to "Vote again". What do you do with empty lots? What do you do with empty housing stock? Magic money! |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 3:59pm
| The "blight" is but one zit among many on the blemished face of our town (and we also have below the skin conditions and illnesses which are unseen but killers nonetheless). What no one has mentioned is that while hundreds of abandoned older homes are an eyesore, so are THOUSANDS of the occupied older homes. If we're worried about outside impressions, there are many occupied homes in dozens of sections around town that do our image no favors. Unfortunately, getting rid of a few hundred homes is a drop in the bucket in the rehabbing of this town's overall appearance. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 4:22pm
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GS, great school, your sibling is smart, Davidson is a tough school, 1000 kids that could have easily gone to Harvard or Yale. Bill, your point is well made, but again the fallacy here is once again, the lack of recognition it is not a supply issue, and blight, it is a demand issue. But, I think I get your point. And that is removing only part of blight leaves significant more, that hinders interest, and therefore, market demand. In sum, we reach the same conclusion. Net sum gain----a resounding 0. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 4:25pm
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Bill,
Stepped up code enforcement is needed but, if it comes to be, it won't be popular. GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 4:33pm
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A startling oxymoron. The worse offender in blight in the city of Middletown, is the city itself, Can it fine itself for its negligence, malfeasance, ineptitude? It is the cause of blight. Yet you GG argue property powners cause the problems. You haven't looked at the roads, the sewers, the curbs in disarray, and the terrible manner the city maintains its own assets. That is what you continue to miss in your solution, and adoption landlords are the cause of blight. They are a minor problem. The biggest culprit? The city itself. Lets try putting some asphalt down GG and cure the street blight, and work our way back to paint and a nail that needs to be reset on an apartment, how about it. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 6:05pm
GG... Code enforcement has already visited us in the form of rusty gutters, paint falling off of garages and more. City even had a low interest loan program for some to fix up their houses. Some couldn't afford that either. Happened a year or two ago, then, as quickly as it was announced, it disappeared. Haven't heard nor read where the city was hammering the people lately. The city has already demonstrated code enforcement for properties in need of repairs. In the last few years (can't remember when it was implemented) the city had inspectors out in the city and were writing citations for home repair. If interested in this subject, I will direct you to the section of this forum entitled Community Revitalization- page 5. There, you can read all about the program and the reactions. (there are other topics within this section that will give you an overview of what has transpired with code enforcement). |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 6:58pm
| GG You mentioned a while back that your thought process was evolving when it came to the leadership in this town that is the city manager. I thought you had also said you worked with several of the upper management people. My ? is what do you think of the leadership of our town. If you have reviewed this I apologize I have had other issues to attend to and have not been following much of these post. Acclaro- I am being told the Mens B-Ball team is looking very good this year I hope they show again in the finals. I'll message you so your son may avoid my siblings classes very, very tough, only joking. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 28 2012 at 7:15pm
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Ground Swat, thanks, he'll be glad to know. Actually, they are all great down there and do a nice job one on one. We watched Seth Curry and enjoyed that. They are really something, they had pulled out the former UVa coach and made him athletic director, and they always play UNC-Chapel Hill tough. It takes a smart sibling to teach at Davidson, you have to be smarter than the student, and those students are pretty darn smart. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 29 2012 at 8:38am
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A startling oxymoron. The worse offender in blight in the city of Middletown, is the city itself, Can it fine itself for its negligence, malfeasance, ineptitude? It is the cause of blight. Yet you GG argue property powners cause the problems. You haven't looked at the roads, the sewers, the curbs in disarray, and the terrible manner the city maintains its own assets. That is what you continue to miss in your solution, and adoption landlords are the cause of blight. They are a minor problem. The biggest culprit? The city itself. Lets try putting some asphalt down GG and cure the street blight, and work our way back to paint and a nail that needs to be reset on an apartment, how about it. acclaro, I would agree that the city is the single largest contributor to our blight problem. Does that invalidate my argument that landlords contribute heavily to the problem…. of course not. I will say, again, that I recognize the street and infrastructure problems. I would support street repair over demolition if the city was incentivized to do so. As it stands now, I feel that the bigger impact would be the removal of blight. For the record, I am not anti-landlord but the city must reduce its current percentage of rentals (currently 40%) as part of its strategy to get healthy. I am surprised to hear you state that rental properties are a minor blight problem….. we must be viewing different neighborhoods. Would you be OK with your next door neighbors renting their homes? GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 29 2012 at 9:03am
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GG You mentioned a while back that your thought process was evolving when it came to the leadership in this town that is the city manager. I thought you had also said you worked with several of the upper management people. My ? is what do you think of the leadership of our town. If you have reviewed this I apologize I have had other issues to attend to and have not been following much of these post.
Acclaro- I am being told the Mens B-Ball team is looking very good this year I hope they show again in the finals. I'll message you so your son may avoid my siblings classes very, very tough, only joking. ground swat, As you mentioned, my opinions are still forming. Currently, I would rank as follows on a scale from 1 - 5: Adkins 5 Gilliland 4 Landon 3 Kohler 0 Smith 1 Laubach 4 Jones 4 Mayor 2 Others 3 It is no secret that that I agree with most of what Mr. Adkins has been doing. I think that his strategies will benefit the city in the long term. My viewpoint on Ms. Gilliland is primarily based on my personal dealings with her. I know that this viewpoint isn’t shared by many on this board and I am looking into her performance otherwise. Landon doesn’t impress me but he appears to do his job of keeping the city out of hot water. Kohler should be fired tomorrow. He has done irreparable harm to the city over the years. Smith doesn’t have enough life experience to be in the position that he is in. Although I didn’t agree with his decision concerning the Moving Ohio Forward vote, Laubach took a step up in my mind by voting his conscience…. what he thought was best for the city. I think that Ms. Jones puts much thought behind her decisions. The mayor took a step back in my mind when he wouldn’t accept a council vote because it didn’t agree with his opinion. None of the other council members stand out to me one way or the other. JMHO GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jun 30 2012 at 12:20pm
| GG thnx for your honest answer- taking a break from cleaning up storm damage on the iPhone so I just wanted to get back to you. At some point I'll message you and explain some dealings with this city manager that I have had. |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Jul 01 2012 at 10:06pm
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From MJ:
http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/phillipsburg-receives-loan-grant-1399213.html - http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/phillipsburg-receives-loan-grant-1399213.html
Another wrinkle?
Excerpt:
Portman asks EPA to rethink regulation Sen. Rob Portman last week urged the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to rethink a regulation that demolitions of vacant properties be subject to an EPA rule governing asbestos removal. Portman, R-Ohio, said the regulation has effectively barred Ohio land banks and others from demolishing vacant and foreclosed-upon homes. The state has some 100,000 vacant properties awaiting demolition, and Ohio groups – led by the Thriving Communities Initiative in Cleveland – argue that the EPA’s reinterpretation of federal regulations governing asbestos removal has gummed up the process and made it costlier for cities and land banks to demolish such properties. In a letter to EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson, Portman said that the EPA has recently begun reinterpreting federal regulations to require nearly all demolition to be subject to rules on asbestos removal. Starting today, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine is scheduled begin releasing $75 million to Ohio counties and land banks for demolition purposes. Portman said because of the new rules, 25 to 40 percent fewer properties will be demolished with these dollars. “Given the staggering cost increases and the growing need for demolitions, I urge you to work with the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency and local stakeholders to reassess this regulation’s impact on local land banks and the communities they serve,” he wrote. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 02 2012 at 7:46am
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In a letter to EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson, Portman said that the EPA has recently begun reinterpreting federal regulations to require nearly all demolition to be subject to rules on asbestos removal. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 04 2012 at 5:16am
City to be part of county land bank
Grant program provides funds to tear down blighted properties
By http://www.middletownjournal.com/services/staff/1317913.html - Michael D. Pitman , Staff Writer Updated Two weeks ago, City Council rejected the idea to join the County Land Reutilization Corp., also known as the land bank, and have the quasi-public nonprofit organization apply for the
a $2.7 million Moving Ohio Forward Grant on behalf of Hamilton and Middletown. The grant would be split between the two cities so long each provides a $1.1 million match. On Tuesday, council voted 4-0-2 to pass the legislation. Council members Anita Scott Jones and A.J. Smith abstained; Councilman Josh Laubach was not at the meeting due to a death in
the family. “I think this is a great opportunity for the city,” said Vice Mayor Dan Picard of the grant and land bank. “We have so many properties that are in such terrible shape that we really need
to do as much as we can to get that under control.” vacant, abandoned, tax-foreclosed or other property for rehabilitation or reuse. The land
bank would then clear properties of all http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/city-to-be-part-of-county-land-bank-1400309.html## - The Moving Ohio Forward Grant comes from a multibillion-dollar mortgage provider settlement shared with all states. Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine announced he set $75
million of the state’s share of the settlement aside for the http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/city-to-be-part-of-county-land-bank-1400309.html## - With the grant, abandoned properties, about 10 percent of the city’s total. The city currently demolishes
about 40 to 50 homes a year. Picard said the grant isn’t just taking care of bad-looking properties either. “It’s not just an aesthetic issue, it’s a criminal issue,” he said. “These houses provide havens for heroin addicts and other drug addicts and all for kinds of criminal activity and illicit
activity. It eats up our other resources.” Scott Jones and Smith both abstained because they felt the legislation was being reconsidered because it failed despite receiving a majority vote. Council voted two weeks ago 5-1 on both
pieces of legislation, but since Picard was absent at that meeting, the voted needed to be unanimous. Laubach was the dissenting vote. “Although I was a proponent of this piece of legislation when it initially came before us, I am not an proponent of bringing back legislation so quickly because it didn’t go my way,” Scott
Jones said. Smith also abstained because he was one of three council members that were not at the special meeting last week.
“I have not supported in the past bringing back legislation once it’s failed, whether it’s something I supported or in opposition to,” he said.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jul 04 2012 at 10:10am
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This council has been such an incredible disappointment, the runaway train of nepotism, poor behavior, and blatant bully-ism. Mr. Picard, you amaze me with your commentary. Criminals are using houses for heroin transactions? Where do you come up with such nonsense? I state it again, for the upteenth time. When you have two brothers, an attorney (who practices before two Middletown employees), and a retired city police chief, all having one single tie that unites them all, in Red Crimson and Gold, you only have 4 out 7 that are solely with the city's agenda, and the city with their agenda. All that money going down to Main Street for the benefit of the Mulligans, and no one cares? This is unlike any city in America. Lets hope you all remember how they came up with these funds and pandering Dan voted to spend $1.2 Mm, when also saying the levy needed to pass because we needed the bloated fire department. This is the worst council in history, and openly self serving. It won't help your neighborhood, they'll divert the funds elsewhere, but who cares? I surrender, idiots rule. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Jul 04 2012 at 10:44am
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Safety levy passage = more city purchasing and renovation or demo of downtown buildings. |
Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Jul 04 2012 at 1:46pm
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Only in America |
Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jul 04 2012 at 2:39pm
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 04 2012 at 4:02pm
Nothing surprising here. Picard just doing what he is told to do by his bosses. We all knew the approval on the second go-around was a done deal. Scott-Jones and Mr. Smith standing their ground.  The good guys are still out-numbered 4 to 3 on council, at least on this one. The game remains the same.....until the people in this town wake up, give a crap enough to register to vote, educate themselves on what is happening, go to the polls and outnumber the MMF-sponsored voting block contingent who are ruining the city. Meanwhile, the city continues to go down the toilet with their game plan in place and the majority of the citizens seem not to care. The city leaders/MMF are counting on that to remain in effect.
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Date Posted: Aug 07 2012 at 4:01am
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