Orman Building Demo
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Category: Middletown Community
Forum Name: Fun Pictures and Video
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URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4714
Printed Date: Apr 23 2024 at 8:50pm
Topic: Orman Building Demo
Posted By: 409
Subject: Orman Building Demo
Date Posted: Aug 14 2012 at 1:04pm
Apparently they decided to stabilize the wall by taking it down! This morning....  |
Replies:
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Aug 14 2012 at 6:12pm
This afternoon....    |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Aug 14 2012 at 7:32pm
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At the last council meeting they said they couldn’t use
this approach, due to the widespread existence of asbestos that had to be
removed before the building could be demolished. They said that they didn’t have time to get
the asbestos removed prior to delivery of the Wausau equipment. That is why they were going to stabilize the wall instead
of demolishing that section of the building. I don't know what changed. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Aug 14 2012 at 8:09pm
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Surely they aint that ignorant?
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 14 2012 at 8:22pm
EPA issue? Fine for not removing asbestos prior to demolishing building perhaps? |
Mike_Presta wrote:Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Aug 15 2012 at 12:09am
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I could just imagine the fines that they would invoke on this city I pray thats not the case.
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Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: Aug 15 2012 at 12:57am
| Asbestos? I don't see no stinking asbestos. chmoore |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 15 2012 at 6:28am
Could happen again in this town Bo. Back when they attempted Lake Middletown, someone in the city building (we never knew who made the decision), approved the removal of the temporary dam that separated the lake from the Great Miami River BEFORE the Army Corps Of Engineers told the city they could remove it, and the city paid a $300,000+ fine for allowing silt to be released into the river. Part of the track record this city has accululated for botched projects. If a project has disaster written all over it, look no further than the city building for the culprits. |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Aug 15 2012 at 7:22pm
Talked to one of the guys & he said there was no asbestos in that side of the building.  This is as far back as they are going to go for now.   |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Aug 15 2012 at 9:30pm
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: John Beagle
Date Posted: Aug 16 2012 at 2:51pm
Great photos!
------------- http://www.johnbeagle.com/" rel="nofollow - John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio. |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Aug 16 2012 at 3:39pm
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Thanx John! This is the finished product for now. Wonder what the price tag was for this?   |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 17 2012 at 12:56pm
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409
I believe this demo will cost the city between $225,000 and $300,000.
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Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Aug 17 2012 at 1:00pm
thats crazy |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Aug 17 2012 at 1:22pm
For less than 3 days work + some planning ! I've been in the wrong business !!!
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 19 2012 at 2:38am
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CORRECTION
I drove past the building and realized that only a small section had been removed so I email Russ Carlos and requested the cost of this demo.
The city paid upto $75,000 for this demo to be paid from the dowtown fund. |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: Aug 19 2012 at 2:55am
| Well, wasn't that cozy? Up to $75,000. Our pictorial log started (above) on August 14th---Tuesday---and was broom clean by 3:39 Thursday, August 16th. Three days, one hoe/operator, debris removal, one guy hosing the area, three sidewalk superintendents. Not bad for $25,000 a day. How many bids did they have, again? chmoore |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 19 2012 at 8:51am
How about the MMF'ers giving the city back the $75,000 to pay for this? They're high rollers. They claim they care about the city, right? I'm sure they wouldn't mind footing the bill out of their own pockets, would they? 
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Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Aug 20 2012 at 4:04am
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Have any of you paid for disposal lately? I paid $875 for disposal of just a 1 1/2 car garage that my brothers and i tore down. Having the ability to get rid of the debris is where the cost/profit comes in. |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: Aug 20 2012 at 12:44pm
| lrisner: I agree that disposal is costly, but that isn't over $50,000 of disposal material. chmoore |
Posted By: John Beagle
Date Posted: Aug 20 2012 at 1:38pm
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Were there no steel I beams to be recycled? ------------- http://www.johnbeagle.com/" rel="nofollow - John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio. |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Aug 20 2012 at 4:56pm
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In this round of demolition there was no debris disposal. With the exception of salvaging large wood beams, the debris was simply compacted with a bulldozer into the lower level. This section had wood beams instead of steel, similar to the old Sorg buildings. This was posted above. (Bobcat carrying a large wood beam) |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Aug 22 2012 at 10:59am
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Ms Judy stated at last nights council meeting that City Hall paid less than $50,000 for the demo of this small section of the Orman Building. |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: Aug 22 2012 at 6:45pm
| Still pretty high for 3 days work. chmoore |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Aug 22 2012 at 9:04pm
| Details......unless you do this for a living. It's expensive when you have to call on a emergency. Hauling/Dumping to clear it quickly costs $$. You want quick service you pay. This town doesn't know what pro-active means. |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Aug 22 2012 at 9:25pm
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"Still pretty high for 3 days work." Spoken like someone who has never run a business. This kind of equipment costs big time money, plus the quick, emergency service premium as mentioned above.
I wonder if the city got multiple bids and tried to negotiate. Guessing not.
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Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: Aug 23 2012 at 2:25am
| Ground/Bill: I have experience with "emergency" work. First, this wasn't really "emergency work"---they had several days to line this up. "Emergency" is, this water main broke and you need to respond within one hour, and stay on the job 24 hours a day until it is finished." Whatever it takes. Send me 10 men and let's go. By photo evidence, it started on the morning of August 14th. One hoe, one operator, one worker hosing the dust, and, perhaps, a third operating a front end loader. Apparently, whatever wasn't reclaimed (large beams) was dropped in the basement and not hauled off. Project was finished by 3:39, August 16th. No evidence of overnight work. So, hoe and operator at, say, $200.00/hr (hoe $125.00, operator $75.00/hr.) X 24 (8 X 3 days) equals $4,800. 24 hours labor for 2 other employees @ $50.00/hr. each equals $2,400. Move-in, move-out, 4 hours (generous) @ $50.00/hr. equals $200.00. Misc. materials (plastic protective fencing, etc.) say, $2,000 to be generous equals $2,000. Water for hosing, let's say $1,000 to be generous (water might even have been supplied by the city at no charge). Even if some disposal was involved, let's again be generous and say $5,000. Let's see what we have: $4,800 + $2,400 + $200.00 + $2,000 + $1,000 + $5,000 = $15,400. Yeah, that really gets close to $50,000 real fast. Can you think of anything that was left out for $35,000? Also, don't forget that the city has to have an agreement with a demolition company to respond to this type of project relatively quickly. With as many buildings as the city has demolished recently, this should have been relatively routine. Just for the sake of argument, let's up the equipment cost to $200/hr., up $75/hr. X 24 hours; add another $1,800. Total, $17,200. Uh, yeah, I did do project estimates for a number of years. chmoore |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Aug 23 2012 at 8:59am
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CHMoore, Not to nit-pick or to start an argument, but just to
clarify: There were actually TWO backhoes working this
project. The large Caterpillar and a
smaller hoe (I can’t recognize the make—see the picture on the left posted by
409 on14 Aug 2012 at 6:12pm). I haven’t done any estimating since 1996 or ’97, but back
then your hourly rate figure would’ve been too high for the smaller hoe, and
maybe about right ($150 to 200, renting by the hour) for the big Cat). Your guess for inflation since 1997 is as good as mine (and probably better, if you've been doing estimating since then). Also, the big hoe (the Cat) used a hydraulic shear, not a
bucket, part of the time. There is an additional
rental/equipment usage charge for shears and/or hydraulic rams that can run as
high as 50% of the charge for the hoe.
(Hard to believe, I know, but it is true.) This second hoe also means that another operator is needed. Finally, to be fair to the City Manager, I recall her
saying at the last council meeting that she wasn’t certain of the exact cost
but was sure that it was LESS than $50,000.
Maybe it was way less??? Let’s
wait and see—hopefully it will be less than $25,000. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Aug 23 2012 at 9:30am
 Photo copied from 8/14/2012 Facebook post by W. Pence, showing both backhoes. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Aug 23 2012 at 11:05am
The hoe on the left is a Kobelco SK200. The Bobcat I referenced in an earlier post is actually a Mustang. |