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Middletown to cut 26 first responders

Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5519
Printed Date: May 14 2024 at 4:10pm


Topic: Middletown to cut 26 first responders
Posted By: ktf1179
Subject: Middletown to cut 26 first responders
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 8:03am
I saw this on the morning news on Channel 2 WDTN talking about Police and Fire Fighters cuts.

http://www.wdtn.com/news/ohio/middletown-to-cut-26-first-responders" rel="nofollow - http://www.wdtn.com/news/ohio/middletown-to-cut-26-first-responders



Replies:
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 9:13am
Now wait a minute. That's more than has been discussed isn't it? Still waiting to hear from Gilleland on how many Directors, Managers, Assist. Managers and Supervisors she will include in her budget cuts. The last I saw in Public Works, she had 2 or 3 managers supervising 2 or 3 workers. If this is a standard practice in her city building, the hierarchy is WAYYYYY too top heavy. Unload the big salaries in management admin. paper shufflers and keep the fire and police folks. How many fire and police Captains and Lt.s do we have in each dept? Do they contribute out in the field or do they stay in the office and do paperwork? Are they needed in the number that is currently staffed? Will they go out in the field if you cut the officers and fire dept. folks?

Whenever there are cuts to be made, be it public or private sectors, they always seem to decimate the worker bees and barely touch the management drones. Cut one manager....save two workers.

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 11:12am
These actions by the public  safety unions do more harm to publicizing Middletown's problems in a 20 minute press conference and accompanying news coverage than all efforts to spend money for downtown glorification, open fresh vegetable 'farmers' markets, build a UDF, PAC, new schools, restore Sorg, have Middletown Christmas songs and cd's, and pay young professionals to move to 'upscale' downtown.
 
When one wakes up daily, you should realize in Middletown, you are on a train without a conductor, a plane without a pilot.
 
How Dan Picard could rally with those bringing such negative visibility to Middletown is astonishing. The contract doesn't end until 2014; what does this reflect to business and individuals who see this on the news? Simple----stay away from Middletown, it has bad schools, high crime, poverty of nearly 69% in the school district, roads that are unsafe and in disrepair, and public servants highlighting crime and how bad it will be with reductions.
 
Bright Future doesn't fly when you have public servants with mouthpieces stating the city is going to have even more explosive crime, when it is already nearly 5x the Ohio and national average.
 
Exit stage right....fast.    


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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill


Posted By: AKBobby
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 11:23am
that's a fair question Vet and a good one ---- I know the MPD has one chief, two deputy chiefs and four shift lieutenants and 9 street sergeants. They have cut three supervisor positions in the last ten years. The sergeants and three lieutenants are all field supervisors which means there are three on each shift and they do handle calls, disturbances and all the good stuff that happens in Middletown. One of the sergeants is the vice squad supervisor and is a field worker too.
 
The only paper shufflers as you call it in the pd are the Chief and two deputy chiefs. each deputy chief has their own divisions. one is in charge of patrol (the biggest part), dispatch, chaplain program and red light cameras and the other one has the jail, detectives and records. There used to be three deputy chiefs in the 90s and they cut that one and a lieutenant.
 
That's the big diffferenc between MPD and a lot of places. the supervisors generally are working field supervisors and stop cars, handle reports and also supervise.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 11:39am
AKBobby:

"The only paper shufflers as you call it in the pd are the Chief and two deputy chiefs."

So, the Lt's, Sgt's and the patrol officers handle the field work out in the streets. Between the Lt's, Sgt's and officers, how many are working the streets per shift to cover the city? How many does the city want to cut from each shift and what will be left "uncovered" in the city that is now accounted for? How much time is taken from city coverage for the police personnel to go to court to testify? Is it a significant amount of time taken out of a normal weeks work?

Are the detectives overloaded with work or could they be back out on the street as patrol officers if the cuts become too much to overcome?

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: AKBobby
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 11:51am
Vet Im getting this from my brother so if its not 100% accurate I apologize in advance
 
There is a lieutenant and two sergeant on each shifts. Between the three of them and their two days off per week, they always have the shift covered. I don't think any supervisor wuld be cut due to police work being high liability in everything. But any cuts to lower seniority people that means those supervisors would have to pick up the xtra work. I was told the MPD had over 55000 calls last year so that's a lot to cover per shift. Not sure about how detectives work. I know detectives was cut already and they lost a juvenile officer along with a regular detective to work cases.  I do know the officers spend an ungodly amount of time in court but that's out of their hands as they have to do what the court orders them to do. That's a great point though on your part
 
I guess detectives could go back to the road patrol but that means those types of followup cases would not get followed up. Yes. I have family on there but I also know they are understaffed as is most places. I don't know what the answer is. I know they too concessions in raises the last few years but cant tell you how much or what.


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AK - What is going on with that?


Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 11:53am
Solutions to:
 
1- Police: Butler Cty Sheriff
 
2- Fire: Volunteer Fire Force, outsourcing EMT
 
Painless (with exception of pecking order for promotion).
 
BTW, if you eliminate staff in these areas, with the exception of the two solutions provided; don't you increase OVERTIME? 


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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 12:02pm
Butler County Sheriff......Volunteer Fire......

I see the response time being atrocious and unacceptable in very quick time. How would an emergency medical issue be handled and what would the response time increase be? If that ever occurred, I could see a lawsuit or two against the city if there is a death attributed to extremely long waits. I know of one that would happen immediately.

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: eastsider
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 2:42pm
Acclaro
Are you serious? Your response/suggestion is asinine! Are you blind to the ridiculous and unnecessary spending going on downtown and elsewhere by our city manager and some of council? Are you one benefiting from this bc your comments make it obvious you are not someone that needs/uses public safety and god forbid the time you do need someone whether it be a fire company, medic unit or police officer! There is a reason fire/ems departments go from volunteer to part time and to career as well as the point in time where MPD stepped away from the sheriff god knows how long ago! Response times play a huge part in this decision! Just ask surrounding communities about how their public safety is provided and if its received in adequate time. There is nothing wrong with a volunteer fire department/sheriff system but if you look at cities with crime, fire and medical needs as this city has, public safety employees here are barely getting by and making ends meet and some would say are already not able to provide the best service possible- reference the increase in response times and why don't you look into fire department mutual aide use as well as how long some PD calls go before they are attended to. Your scenario will only multiply these problems! The problem once again is not public safety! We all know it is a big part of the budget(PS is in every city, just ask Detroit- in bankruptcy yet still hiring police and FF's) that's been discussed/shown enough, the streets are also very important but come on Acclaro, where are your tax dollars being wasted? Its not in public safety, look at the run numbers for police and fire departments!

The city manager and council once again said they would not cut public safety if a levy was passed and are going back on their word! Quit attacking the people that provide/maintain your safety and find other ways to cut or how about this, make money! Which for damn sure wont happen if you keep cutting services that help to bring people in! Who wants to move their residence/business somewhere where we have the problems now that will only get worse with more PS cuts?


Posted By: AKBobby
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

Solutions to:
 
1- Police: Butler Cty Sheriff
 
2- Fire: Volunteer Fire Force, outsourcing EMT
 
Painless (with exception of pecking order for promotion).
 
BTW, if you eliminate staff in these areas, with the exception of the two solutions provided; don't you increase OVERTIME? 
 
you do know the sheriff has less staffing on patrol than just about anyone? they cant even take their own calls out in the rural areas with city help. But you do know that right?


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AK - What is going on with that?


Posted By: AKBobby
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

Butler County Sheriff......Volunteer Fire......

I see the response time being atrocious and unacceptable in very quick time. How would an emergency medical issue be handled and what would the response time increase be? If that ever occurred, I could see a lawsuit or two against the city if there is a death attributed to extremely long waits. I know of one that would happen immediately.
 
great points. the Sherrifs office cant even handle their own calls. Middleotwn handles many of their calls in the Madison Twp area as it is on mutual aid.  Plus do you really want volunteer firemen coming from 30 minutes away from their homes instead of right around the corner?
 
I agree with you on this Vet


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AK - What is going on with that?


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 3:34pm
Again, for purely selfish reasons (and because my wife has needed quick response to the Atrium Emergency Room several times in the past 4.5 years), we must have quick response or she may die. Now, to be fair, if our family did not require quick medical response, it would matter less. If the old house catches on fire, I wouldn't want to wait for the volunteer firefighters either while I stare at the fire hydrant directly across from my house. And, if we have a police issue with someone breaking in, I'm not willing to wait for the sheriff either as I unload a clip into the clown who is violating my space, if you get my drift. Need a tad bit better response than what the sheriff could provide. We have had great responses to date from the medic/fire unit sent and the police. One of the better aspects of Middletown IMO. Money spent on them seems to be a better deal than our money spent on the priorities of city hall. The police and fire services seem to benefit the citizens more so than most offered by the city.

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 10:15pm
How many dying cities with our minimal budget have our level of public safety positions?  The fire service is where the trimming can be done.  Time to go EMS and volunteer, as Acclaro mentioned.  I usually don't see many burning buildings very often...or ever. 
 
But it won't happen in this aging town.  Too many old people who want a fire station around every corner to make them feel "safe", hence spinning the levy as a "safety levy". 
 
Funny, why is it that most of the smart people flocking over the years to Mason, WChester, Springboro, etc. don't bring up the fire staffing and # of fire stations during their house hunting?


Posted By: eastsider
Date Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 10:53pm
Mr Barille

Once again, your point is not supported by facts/statistics! Before you compare Middletown safety services to the other jurisdictions you speak of, look at the #'s.. You're clueless! West Chester has more fire stations and staffing than Middletown and make less calls, Mason only has 2 stations but once again, make a lot less calls- maybe half the amount of Middletown. Now, you bring up Springboro- interesting you do this- if you want to do some research, call the Clearcreek(provides fire for Springboro) fire Chief! They make less calls than Middletown, not even half as much, have 3 stations, close to the same daily staffing and here's the kicker- are transitioning to an all FULL TIME FD because of turn over rate and cost savings to the township! Quit making BS comments/comparisons without doing research first! Hell, Liberty TWP has a minimum staffing of 13, 3 station for less than 2000 calls a year! This is the proposed # of on duty staff for Middletown for 10000+ calls a year!

Now, compare the amount of fires Middletown has vs these other jurisdictions!? I don't think you want to, because they don't compare! Are there as many fires as once before-NO, but there are still fires in our city! There is nobody around here that you can compare your fire or police departments to other than Hamilton(size of city, staffing snd call volume)


Again, complain about the wasteful spending! Get rid of Gilleland and her crew


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 6:38am
Neil B:

"How many dying cities with our minimal budget have our level of public safety positions?"

FIRST OF ALL, IF INDEED THIS CITY IS DYING, IT IS BECAUSE OF THE DECISIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE BY PAST/CURRENT CITY HALL PEOPLE. IT IS BECAUSE PAST/CURRENT COUNCIL/COMMISSION HAVE BEEN INEPT ON THE DIRECTION THIS TOWN SHOULD HAVE GONE YEARS AGO. INEPT IN PRIORITIZING, NOT BEING ABLE TO DECIFER WHAT IS IMPORTANT AND WHAT ISN'T. SECONDLY, I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THIS TOWN MAY BE STAFFED ABOUT RIGHT BASED ON THE INCREASE IN CRIME CREATED WHEN CITY LEADERS DECIDED TO MAKE IT LOW INCOME/SECTION 8 AND STAFFED ABOUT RIGHT DUE TO AN AGING POPULATION REQUIRING MORE AND MORE MEDIC RUNS THAT WILL ONLY INCREASE AS TIME GOES BY.

Neil B:

"The fire service is where the trimming can be done. Time to go EMS "

WRONG NEIL. THE CITY BUILDING WITH ALL THE TOP HEAVY SALARIES AND DUPLICATION OF PAPER-SHUFFLERS IS WHERE THE TRIMMING CAN BE DONE. YOU DON'T CUT WORKERS, YOU CUT ADMIN. PAPER-FLOW PEOPLE WHO GO TO ENDLESS MEETINGS TO DECIDE TO MEET AGAIN BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MAKE DECISIONS AND PASS ENDLESS INFO BACK AND FORTH. YOU DON'T NEED MULTI-LAYERS OF MIDDLE MANAGEMENT. THEY ARE EXPENDABLE. AGAIN, WE MUST KEEP THE EMS AND MEDICS DUE TO AN AGING POPULATION THAT AIN'T GETTING ANY HEALTHIER.

Neil B:

"But it won't happen in this aging town. Too many old people who want a fire station around every corner to make them feel "safe", hence spinning the levy as a "safety levy"

NO NEIL, too many old people who NEED a fire station WITH A MEDIC UNIT SO THEY WON'T DIE. "WANT" DOESN'T NECESSARILY FACTOR INTO IT.....MORE LIKE A "NEED" GIVE IT TIME BUD. IT WILL BE YOUR TURN SOMEDAY WHEN THE OLD HEART ATTACK HITS UNEXPECTANTLY AND YOU'LL BE GLAD THE MEDIC UNIT SHOWS UP AT THE HOUSE TO GET YOU TO THE HOSPITAL SO you won't die. THINK IT WON'T HAPPEN TO YOU? THINK AGAIN. WE HAD NO IDEA HOW OUR DAY WOULD TURN OUT 4 YEARS AGO EITHER. WHAT HAPPENED TO PAC IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW YOUR LITTLE WORLD CAN CHANGE IN AN INSTANT. OH, AND BY THE WAY NEIL, YOU ARE GETTING OLDER TOO AND WILL EVENTUALLY NEED THEIR SERVICES. IT IS INEVITABLE. YOU ARE NOT IMMUNE TO AGING.

THIS IS NOT A LUXURY TO EASILY DISMISS NEIL. MEDIC CARE IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH AND A NECESSITY WHEN YOU'RE DYING. DON'T LAUGH. COULD HAPPEN TO ANYONE AT ANY TIME. YOU?, ME? WHO KNOWS WHO WILL NEED THE SQUAD NEXT?

AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH UNION SUPPORT ON MY END. I THINK THE UNIONS ARE OVERBEARING ON THEIR DEMANDS SOMETIMES. I VOTED TO SUPPORT SB5 WHICH FAILED.......BUT I STILL APPRECIATE THE HELP THEY CONTINUE TO GIVE US AND, WITHOUT THEM, I WOULD BE WITHOUT A WIFE RIGHT NOW. THEY ARE STILL A BIGGER BANG FOR THE TAXPAYER BUCK THAN PAYING THE SALARIES OF THE CLOWNS IN THE CITY BUILDING. I WOULD FEEL BETTER GIVING THEM 10 BUCKS OF MY MONEY THAN 1 BUCK TO ANYONE IN THE CITY BUILDING OR THE SCHOOLS. AT LEAST I'M GETTING SOMETHING FOR MY MONEY OF VALUE.

SO.....GO AHEAD AND CUT THE POLICE AND FIRE/MEDICS TO THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS. GO AHEAD AND GET THE 1.1 MILLION AND RETAIN THE DEADWOOD IN THE CITY BUILDING........BUT AFTER THAT HAPPENS, DON'T BITCH AND COMPLAIN WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR HEART ATTACK OR A HOME BREAK-IN AND THEY DON'T RESPOND FOR AND HOUR OR SO DUE TO THE CUTS MADE. IF THE RESPONSE TIME IS TOO LONG, AND SOMEONE DIES OR IS SHOT AND KILLED BY THE HOME INVADER WHEN IT COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED, I SEE SOME LAWSUITS AGAINST THE CITY AROUND THE CORNER. GET IN LINE WITH THE REST OF US ON THAT.

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 6:49am
eastside, the difference is that the areas you mention are on much better financial footing than Middletown and can afford the level of staffing they have.
The real point is why isn't there a better way to evaluate staffing -- do we really need firefighters sitting around cooking chili, washing the big fire engines, shopping at Marsh, unnecessarily going on medical runs?  Most runs are medical emergencies, not fire.  This is all about protecting union jobs for people who probably live out of town.  Gotta love the lecturing and threats coming from fire/police many of whom don't live in this town.


Posted By: What A City
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 7:41am
Originally posted by Neil Barille Neil Barille wrote:

eastside, the difference is that the areas you mention are on much better financial footing than Middletown and can afford the level of staffing they have.
The real point is why isn't there a better way to evaluate staffing -- do we really need firefighters sitting around cooking chili, washing the big fire engines, shopping at Marsh, unnecessarily going on medical runs?  Most runs are medical emergencies, not fire.  This is all about protecting union jobs for people who probably live out of town.  Gotta love the lecturing and threats coming from fire/police many of whom don't live in this town.
The fire dept positions are unique. They are not standing at a production line where one is constantly busy trying to keep up with the product coming off the line. They are not going from patient to patient as a nurse in a hospital, tending to the needs of the people who are ill, constantly busy. They are not going from meeting to meeting like management does in corporate America. They are not in a cruiser going from call to call like the  police do. If there are no calls, what would you have them do, other than clean, run errands in the fire unit, cut grass, catch up on sleep or tend to fire dept. business. Ya can't send them somewhere else without their equipment. Gotta be around it all the time .....you know.....to provide adequate response.
 
Depending on the frequency of the daily runs, there may be some "lag time" where they are cleaning vehicles, restocking the fire house with the groceries from Marsh or Kroger, cutting grass at the station, etc. . They are there, I believe, 72 hours at a time and do not leave the station to go home like most of us do  after the day's work ends. They do not solicit work. Work comes to them in the form of medic or fire needs. I was told that it is a requirement that a fire unit go on call with the medic.....unless the fire unit is on a fire call. I asked the same question concerning a fire unit showing up with a medic unit. The fire personnel may assist the medics in certain situations where more "muscle" or manpower is needed for lifting such as attending to a call on the third floor with only steps and no elevator.
 
Union jobs or non-union, the need for their services is vital and must exist or people die and houses burn down without attempts to extinguish them. They are necessary, be they union or non-union. Protecting union jobs isn't the issue here, is it? More like making sure the public is protected against threatening situations like medical emergencies and your house burning to the ground. It just so happens that we are dealing with the union sector here which adds another dimension to the picture. Living out of town? I don't care where they live, as long as they show up for work each day and attend to their fire and medic runs in an expedient manner. Isn't that what is really important,  rather than where they live? I'd give them credit if they do live out of town based on how this town is run, wouldn't you?


Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 8:55am
Middletown's public unions are absolutely to the point of behavior exceeding the vulgarity and disgraceful behavioral of the Wisconsin [public union thugs. You cost Middletown $ I M or greater in tax revenues associated with residents and businesses leaving or moving to another city with childish, mob like tactics. Its infuriating.
As Neil correctly states, people has two significant problems; these are-
1) 69% of students are at poverty level, rather, their family income is at poverty. It makes purely from a demographic perspective the impossibility of hitting the magic 75% obtainment Ms. Andrew described a challenge. I add; for those like Vet that bash Section 8; should the city mandate those that cannot afford or don't want to pay for visiting angels or move into the Gables assisted living, leave Middletown as they are a burden upon other's pockets as well, ergo, Senior Citizen Center? You have repeatedly made Ms. Andrew's point on rather stunning hypocrisy unless it benefits you, there is opposition. Many, including I, will vote yes for the new school building solely on behalf and impression Ms. Andrew has the principle of conviction, and that alone, means a great deal to me.
2. > 60% of Middletown's population is aged 55 or older. They buy into this ridiculous notions of scare tactics taken from the social security playbook. If you don't vote for us, you are going to lose valuable seconds. Nonsense. I have seen the multiple trucks that make their runs, staff of 5-7 fire fighters, for countless false alarms. That's where these numbers come from. 80% of activity is running the transport service, not fire fighting. Also, the numbers of staff are about where they were in the mid `980's, when Armco was in better shape, and the city finances. And effort to improve processes, cut, move into the real world, are met with temper tantrums and outrageous negative outbursts in the paper and media, destroying the already dismal and unacceptable image Middletown has already created for itself.
 
I have a suggestion- if you think and are concerned about getting to the hospital quick, move into the  Gables or assisted living. I also add- you want statistics? I will throw statistics that will show the wait to get into the ER jeopardizes one far greater than the time to get to the hospital. JEMS, or any number of outsourced services can provide service well.
 
Further, many docs live around Brown's Run. If I live on a farm in the country, what your argument truly is, is that one would be better to liove next to a hospital, because the distance is shorter, and speed is critical. When one's healt gets to that state, move to assisted living or a nursing home.
 
Council's problem is it has kicked these problems downstream for years. Cowardly behavior. No valor or honor in raising  'fake outrage' and fear. "Throwing granny off the cliff" doesn't work.
 
Stop the publicity, stop the threats, and make concessions to keep numbers, instead of the bully tactics. And STAT. 


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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill


Posted By: Observer
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 9:03am
I wonder if we are debating the wrong question here.  I think if everyone could choose we would all choose to keep staffing levels where they are at.  I suspect what the city admin. is asking is for the unions to take a pay cut.  It seems the vast majority of Middletown residents have taken a pay cut in the last 5 years.  AK workers were locked out, car dealers are going out of business and selling less cars, real estate agents really struggled through the recession, contractors going out of business left and right countless small businesses just making it.  Why can't these folks be asked to give a little bit too?  They take a slight pay cut across the entire dept and/or pay a little more for benefits and the staffing levels can stay at a point where we are all happy.  I don't know much about their contract but i think these contracts take up 70-80% of the budget.  With 2 depts. take up that much money how can they not be impacted when the city has a sizable deficit.  I'm sure there's places we can trim in the admin (and we should) but I doubt there's enough fat in the other 20% to make up $1.5M (i think that's the correct amount).


Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 9:11am
85% of city budget Observer comes from police/ fire.
 
You could eliminate 40% of admin support (non public safety in Donham), and not miss a beat.
 
Cuts are a negotiating tactic of course.
 
Governor Kasisch elimination of Homestead credit/ reduction, of 2.5%, will be game changer- those levies now hit  seniors harder. Recruit Wainscot from AK for a year sabbatical to take care of the union problem. It would be fixed. 


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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill


Posted By: johnnyp26
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 9:22am
The Fire Department has 1 Chief (although I use that term loosely), 1 secretary, 1 EMS Training Captain, and 1 Fire Marshall.  Those 4 work 40 hour work weeks (5 days a week).
We have 3 deputy chiefs who are shift commanders and respond to fires, vehicle entrapments, and other calls for service.  They work 24 hours on 48 hours off.
 
Station 81, Station 82, and HQ have a Captain and 2 Lieutenants that ride on the engine on their platoon day.  For example, at Station 81, the Captain works platoon 1 (24 hour day) on the engine with a driver and firefighter/paramedic;  a Lieutenant works platoon 2 (24 hour day) on the engine with the above staffing; and a Lieutenant works platoon 3 same as above.  We have a 3 platoon system.
The Captain at Station 81 also is in charge of Station 84, which now just houses an ambulance.
The Captain of Station 82 also is in charge of Station 85, which now just houses an ambulance.
We used to have engines at those stations with their own captain and lieutenants. 
Those positions and engines are GONE.
Also GONE are the following positions: Fire Training Captain, Fire Marshall, Assistant Fire Chief.
We do pay more for benefits. We pay more for our pension now.  We have had 0% raises for years.
The REAL question is:  Is the income tax collection REALLY flat? Or is it artificially flat as the City allows some businesses to pay a FEE that can be used anywhere instead of the income tax?


Posted By: scovik888
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 10:27am
Acclaro, although I agree with you on many of your posts,bringing Mr. Wainscot in would not be the right thing to do. Although he is a brilliant business mind you cant expect the firemen and policemen to take people from all over the world, yes world, and train them to do their jobs as the union workers at AK were forced to do. I will refrain from using the word we used for these "replacement workers" but teaching people to run a steel mill is not quite on the same level as teaching people to save lives, or fight fires and crime.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 11:35am
acclaro:

"I add; for those like Vet that bash Section 8; should the city mandate those that cannot afford or don't want to pay for visiting angels or move into the Gables assisted living, leave Middletown as they are a burden upon other's pockets as well, ergo, Senior Citizen Center?"

So true. I do my fair share of bashing Section 8 for good reason IMO. I have stated that I voted for the Seniors Levy for selfish purposes, IE. we use the handicapped van. If that need wasn't there, and if the only reason to vote yes was to support the mis-managed funding of the Senior Center, then I would have cast a no vote. PURELY SELFISH MOTIVES BASED ON A NEED FOR THE YES VOTE ACCLARO. No one should be mandated to leave the city. I might add that, from your posts, I get the feeling you are not too fond of Section 8 either. I voted for the Seniors Levy as there was a personal need. You voted against it for your reasons. I voted no on the Safety Levy because I thought unions were a little too big for their britches, DESPITE having a need for their medic services. At the same time, again for selfish reasons, and because we use the medic service all the time. I also voted for SB5 and against the union negotiation mentality. I am supporting the service they provide, but don't necessarily support their union thought process.

acclaro:

"You have repeatedly made Ms. Andrew's point on rather stunning hypocrisy unless it benefits you, there is opposition. Many, including I, will vote yes for the new school building solely on behalf and impression Ms. Andrew has the principle of conviction, and that alone, means a great deal to me."

WHAT???? DID I READ THIS CORRECTLY? YOU, AFTER ALL THE NEW SCHOOL/OLD SCHOOL BASHING....ALL THE POOR PERFORMANCE BASHING AND ARTICLES SUPPORTING YOUR POSITION, YOU WILL VOTE YES TO SUPPORT A NEW SCHOOL BUILDING? AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO MENTION HYPOCRISY ON MY PART? YOU SUDDENLY HAVE A CHANGE OF HEART AND SUDDENLY SEE MS. ANDREW'S POSITION ON NEW SCHOOLS? YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT? AND WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE ABOUT "CONVICTION MEANING A GREAT DEAL TO YOU" DID YOU SUDDENLY BECOME "SAINTLY"? THE ULTIMATE EXAMPLE OF CHANGING DIRECTION AND BREAKING ONE'S NOSE. WHERE IS YOUR CONVICTION?

acclaro:

2. > 60% of Middletown's population is aged 55 or older. They buy into this ridiculous notions of scare tactics taken from the social security playbook. If you don't vote for us, you are going to lose valuable seconds. Nonsense. I have seen the multiple trucks that make their runs, staff of 5-7 fire fighters, for countless false alarms

TELL YOU WHAT, NEXT TIME WE CALL 911, I'LL CALL YOU AND YOU CAN WITNESS HOW FAST THEY GET TO THE HOUSE AND GET HER TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM. HAS HAPPENED NUMEROUS TIMES IN THE PAST 4.5 YEARS AND, AS SURE AS THE SUN WILL RISE TOMORROW, THERE WILL BE MANY MORE 911 CALLS TO COME. AFTER YOU SEE WHAT THEY DO FOR HER AS TO EFFICIENCY AND TREATMENT, YOU MAY JUST CHANGE YOUR MIND. I KNOW YOU WOULD IF YOU WERE IN MY PLACE, TRYING TO KEEP YOUR WIFE ALIVE. YOU WOULD APPRECIATE ALL THE HELP YOU COULD GET.

acclaro:

"And effort to improve processes, cut, move into the real world, are met with temper tantrums and outrageous negative outbursts in the paper and media, destroying the already dismal and unacceptable image Middletown has already created for itself."

WOULD YOU FEEL THE SAME WAY IF THE MEDICS, FIRE PERSONNEL AND POLICE WERE NON-UNION? ISN'T THIS JUST A VENDETTA ON YOUR PART BECAUSE YOU AND OTHER MANAGER/EDUCATED/REPUBLICAN TYPES CAN'T STAND THE WORKING PEOPLE OF THE WORLD AND THEREFORE, WANT TO DRIVE A STAKE IN THE HEART OF ANY WORKER REPRESENTATION? ISN'T THAT THE REAL PICTURE HERE ACCLARO? WHY THE CONSTANT ATTACKS FROM "BIG ME MANGEMENT" AGAINST "LITTLE YOU WORKER" ALL THE TIME? I'VE HEARD AND SEEN THIS TYPE OF CRAP SINCE 1967 WHEN I ENTERED THE WORKFORCE. IRONICALLY, I'VE NEVER BEEN A PART OF A UNION, BUT I HAVE SEEN THE GAME PLAYED BETWEEN MANAGEMENT AND WORKER IN PLENTY OF NON-UNION SHOPS. IT AIN'T PRETTY.

acclaro:

I have a suggestion- if you think and are concerned about getting to the hospital quick, move into the Gables or assisted living

WHY MOVE? ALREADY LIVE WITHIN A FEW MILES OF THE HOSPITAL AND CAN GET THERE IN A FEW MINUTES. OH, AND DON'T QUALIFY FOR ANY ASSISTED LIVING. MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY....HAVE TOO MANY ASSETS ACCORDING TO ALL PROGRAMS CONTACTED. HELL, CAN'T EVEN GET HOME CARE FOR THE SAME REASONS.

acclaro:

"I will throw statistics that will show the wait to get into the ER jeopardizes one far greater than the time to get to the hospital."

ACTUALLY, WITH HER MANY AILMENTS, THERE IS NO WAIT ONCE SHE REACHES THE ER. THEY TAKE HER RIGHT IN. TIA'S, STROKES AND HEART ATTACK PATIENTS DON'T WAIT IN THE WAITING ROOM OF THE ER. IT AIN'T LIKE SHE HAS THE FLU.

acclaro:

"Further, many docs live around Brown's Run. If I live on a farm in the country, what your argument truly is, is that one would be better to liove next to a hospital, because the distance is shorter, and speed is critical. When one's healt gets to that state, move to assisted living or a nursing home"

YES, LOGICALLY, WHEN ONE LIVES CLOSER TO A MEDICAL FACILITY THAN NOT, THE DISTANCE IS SHORTER AND THE SPEED IS CRITICAL, DEPENDING ON THE AILMENT. AGAIN, WE DON'T QUALIFY FOR, NOR CAN WE AFFORD ASSISTED LIVING OR A NURSING HOME. HAVE YOU SEEN THE PRICES OF THOSE PLACES? FUTHERMORE, SHE IS NOT AT THAT POINT AS YET BUT MAY BE THERE AT SOME POINT IN HER LIFE. SHE HAS BEEN TO MT. PLEASANT TWICE, BUT DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR PERMANENT CARE THERE.

I FIND YOUR AGGRESSIVE ATTACKS SURPRISING BASED ON YOUR PAST DEMEANOR ON YOUR POSTS. I AM SORRY THAT MY POSITION HAS OFFENDED YOU SO, BUT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT BEING DEPENDENT ON THE SERVICES PROVIDED IS LIKE UNTIL YOU WALK A MILE IN MY SHOES. COULD HAPPEN ANY DAY FOR MANY. BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE WITH A TOTALLY DEPENDENT PERSON, I PRAY THAT IT DOES NOT HAPPEN TO YOU OR ANYONE FOR THAT MATTER. YOU WOULDN'T WANT THAT PART OF MY LIFE ACCLARO.




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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 12:05pm
Vet, to be clear:
 
1) I support the movement of the school to a central locations, NOT because of any financial payback, nor belief the system will see EXCELLENCE ratings, as I see the demographics so skewed in an unfavorable position (69% poverty for kids), rather, because without them, it makes the situation worse. That's it....a vote to mitigate damage, not conviction of improvement. I believe in Ms. Andrew, and her honesty to call a spade a spade. While losing money, its less money by building, than doing nothing.
 
2) Education and positions on unions and non unions has nothing to do with calculus. Heck, 5 or so generations of teachers/ admin in family, fire chiefs, you name it. But, burden of pensions and liabilities too much. Companies re-engineer, so should states and municipalities. Not many like the approach and tactics taken.
 
3) Health- we all confront heartache and hardship. There is no dispute on need and desire for police and fire; the question and debate is expense vs their need/ desire for retention of benefit. I believe the word compromise is what the issue, negotiation, bargain. The yelling, scream, positioning, and pounding by the unions are not constructive, and don't serve their position well, nor the residents of Middletown. 
 
Bargain----and staff remains consistent, or ask Doug McNeil for $ 5 Mm back for the 10,000 jobs that did not show up at Atrium. Or....raise taxes to 2-2.5-2.5%. Hint----its the latter.    


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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill


Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 1:22pm
AKBobby,

I appreciate your response to the earlier question, but both the chief and deputy chiefs do respond to calls (obviously not with the frequency of a patrol officer)...they're not merely "shuffling papers".  
   


Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Nov 01 2013 at 5:59pm
Marianne, they may respond....along with 5 or 6 other guys who have nothing else to do with their time.


Posted By: johnnyp26
Date Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 8:44am
WOW acclaro, you sure are the fire service expert.  We should make you head of public safety  The fire dept makes almost 11,000 calls for service a year.  We don't ask for them, people call for all kinds of reasons.  Maybe 911 should be re-directed to your phone and you can decide who gets police or fire.
Don't blame cops and firefighters for the public expecting someone to repsond when they need help.  The public voted overwhelmingly to support police and fire.  Is it our fault that the people in power choose to spend money differently?  Remember Lake Middletown???  the roof over Central???  City leaders have wasted money before, don't act so shocked that it could be happening again. 
Do you really think JEMS could handle our call volume?  We already tax the mutual aid agreements with surrounding communities asking for help to cover calls for service.  Franklin already charges $400 a fire run, not long before others do the same.
 
I could on and on, but I know this will fall on deaf ears.  Know the facts, the REAL facts.  If the majority didn't value Public Safety, they would have voted that way.....TWICE!


Posted By: johnnyp26
Date Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 8:50am
And for Neil Barille..... do you know why you might get 2 paramedics on an ambulance AND 3 firefighter/paramedics on a fire engine?  I didn't think so.  Don't speak like an expert or like you have all the answers when you don't.
How about you stop by a firehouse (you should know where they are since you know such about us) and ask a firefighter.  Ask the guys there how much money we save the city by testing our own equipment, when most fire departments don't do that anymore.  Ask about State mandated training we need to have.  Who do you think cleans the firehouses, cuts the grass, and shovels snow?  It's not the City, I can tell you that.
 
Sleep well knowing that there are police and firefighters in the city willing to risk their lives for YOU, and everyone else, regardless of who they are.....


Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 8:51am
Nice of johnny and others to join the discussion every couple of years when it's levy time or budget cutting time. We don't hear a peep from them about anything else having to do with the city. Where do you live johnny?


Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 10:45am
Coming Soon to Middletown:
 
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Cincinnati_Pension_Reform_Charter_Amendment_Initiative,_Issue_4_%28November_2013" rel="nofollow - http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Cincinnati_Pension_Reform_Charter_Amendment_Initiative,_Issue_4_(November_2013 )
 
'Go ahead, make my day....'
 
 


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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill


Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Nov 02 2013 at 11:20am
I'm going to stick my neck way out here but, it looks like some folks don't mention the fire and police any other time of the year either. They just take them for granted that they will be there when they need them. So if a few knowledgeable people want to express their opinion more power to them, it just might enlighten some of us.IMO


Posted By: middie83
Date Posted: Nov 04 2013 at 11:33am
  WEST CHESTER KETTERING 2011 MIDDLETOWN 2012 MIDDLETOWN* MONROE FRANKLIN MADISON
FD BUDGET FOR 2011 $10,741,929 $10,739,900 $9,706,684 $8,779,607 $3,689,430 $1,362,872 $640,000
Per capita $176 $191 $199 $181 $297 $116 $76
Cost per call $1,984 $1,393 $924 $836** $1,553 $1,603 $819
               
Authorized Personnel              
# of Civilian Personnel 3 4 1 1 0 0 0
# of Uniformed Personnel 66/73PT 54/56PT**** 81 72 35 7/25PT 40V/15PT
# of Administrative Personnel 9 4 4 4 2 1 2PT
# of Operation Personnel 60 96 78 69 33 6/25PT 40V/13PT
TOTAL AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL 142 114**** 82 73 35 32 55
               
SHIFT MAKEUP              
Max. # of Personnel on Shift 27 26/16**** 26 23 11 5 2
Min. # of Personnel on shift 23 20/12**** 19 16 7 4 2
Min. # Per capita (1,000) 0.38 .36/.21 .44 .33 0.46 0.08 .24
Min. # Per call (1,000) 2.35 2.59/1.56 1.81 1.52** 2.94 4.71 1.28
               
STAFFING              
Ambulance Staffing 2 2 2 2 2 0***** 2
Truck Staffing 2/3 3 3 3 2 or 3 3 0
Engine Staffing 3/4 3 3 3 2 or 3 3 0
               
# OF RESPONSES IN 2011            
Fire (Please refer to attachment) 1,605 2,098 1,992 1,992** 574 850 161
EMS 3,810 5,610 8,513 8,513** 1,802 0 620
TOTAL RESPONSES 5,415 7,708 10,505 10,505** 2,376 850 781
               
DEMOGRAPHICS:              
Area of City (Square Miles) 34.5 18.74 26 26 19.2*** 18***** 45
Population 60,958 56,163 48,694 48,694 12,422 11,771 8,448
# of Stations 5 6 5:4F, 1M 5:3F, 2M 2 1 3
               
MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME $86,328 $49,350 $38,461 $38,461 $68,655 $40,425 $61,056
               
Community Make-up by %:              
Residential 55.8% 66% 52% 52% 55% 60% 90%
Commercial/Industrial 23% 23% 48% 48% 30% 40% 10%
Other 21.20% 11%     15%    
               
Cross-trained personnel Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Provide both Fire & EMS response Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes No Yes
Privatized EMS No No No No No No No
Work Schedule 24/48* Varies**** 24/48 24/48 24/48 24/48 Vol/PT
Part-time Firefighter/Paramedic Yes Yes No No No Yes Yes
*West Chester part-time work 12 hours every third day or 24 every 6th day
**Middletown 2012 estimates using 2011 data
***Monroe data includes contractual service to Lemon Township
****Kettering 0700-1700 M-F/1700-0700 M-F + 24 hrs weekends. Does not include on-call personnel;
          includes 54 career personnel + 56 parttime; 17-24/48, 10-4/10, 56 - part-time "On-Call"
***** Franklin is currently working toward providing EMS to the City of Franklin.  This number is subject to change.
***** Franklin data includes contractual service to Franklin Township.


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Chris Klug
Vice President
Middletown Firefighters Local 336
middieff165@gmail.com


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 04 2013 at 12:21pm

MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME

$86,328

$49,350

$38,461

$38,461

$68,655

$40,425

$61,056

I believe that the stated Median Middletown Household Income clearly shows what our problem is really all about.



Posted By: middie83
Date Posted: Nov 04 2013 at 5:57pm
Even with that median income the residents of Middletown are still getting the best bang for their buck compared to anyone around. Include that Fire brings in 36% of its budget through revenue which I just about guarantee no other fire dept in the state of ohio does.  Also Mayor Mulligans claim that income tax revenue is down is a flat out lie. Now it is not as high as they "projected" but it is not down as compared to past years its over that. The doom and gloom that they portray is not factual. 

Acclaro: just so you know fire and police increased their pension contributions in June and will do so again the next 2 years. Our members are not exempt from the financial downturn as you make us out to be.  


-------------
Chris Klug
Vice President
Middletown Firefighters Local 336
middieff165@gmail.com


Posted By: middie83
Date Posted: Nov 04 2013 at 6:02pm
As I have stated in the past I don't hide who I am when I post and am always willing to talk to anyone that has questions. 

-------------
Chris Klug
Vice President
Middletown Firefighters Local 336
middieff165@gmail.com


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 6:25am
Mr. Klug, one thing that may hurt your cause is the very city that you all work for. Gilleland and company PROMISED that if we voted for the last safety levy, that that yes vote would MAINTAIN the workforce in the police and fire departments. The levy was approved under that premise. Now, we hear that they are planning to cut safety people. The city leaders have lied to us again. As the 60's group The Who say in their song.......we won't get fooled again. Do the city leaders care what their actions are doing to your levy winning chances?

Another issue that may be hurting your cause is the perception (or a fact for some) that the unions, be it fire, police or teacher's, is all about taking and not giving. All about iron-handed tactics at the bargaining table, all about non-concession when things aren't going right with the city finances. Be it factual or not, this perception is hurting you in the eyes of the public. Be it factual or not, when the public sees the fire truck parked at Kroger or Marsh, it hurts your cause. They think "goofing off" not "they're restocking the firehouse". PERCEPTION, Mr. Klug, be it real or imaginary, can be your enemy in winning over the public. How do you go about changing that perception to win over the people who question your actions?

My family needs the service you all provide. Your group have provided topnotch response to our 911 calls. HOWEVER, I'm torn between a yes vote due to the need and a no vote because the people have been lied to as to the retention of manpower and I just flat out don't trust the city. Their word is dirt. The people in the city building are your (our) worst enemy. But then, that shouldn't surprise any of us. They have lied to us before and will continue to do so.

The household income does look rather anemic compared to the other communities as Vivian's data pointed out. Again, shouldn't surprise any of us because the city leaders have made no effort to bring decent paying jobs to the city either.

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 6:42am
The ONLY hope we will have for maintaining adequate public safety forces going forward is to elect council members who will make prudent fiscal decisions on ALL matters, not just public safety.
 
The ONLY person running today that has any ACTUAL record of even partially doing so is JOSH LAUBACH!!!
 
The others have only SAID they will do so at election time...but have NEVER actually done so!!!
 
If you REALLY believe in PUBLIC SAFETY for Middletown...Vote for Mr. LAUBACH!!!


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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 6:50am
Been hammered here lately by Danny Picard. Got a flyer on the old door handle the other day and a nice little card in the mail from Danny and Dora Bronston claiming they are the only ones supporting the safety folks. Also got a nice little pre-recorded phone call on Sunday from Danny telling me how he supports the safety people. Danny is working overtime to convince me to vote for him. But, alas, Danny is still Danny and a puppet for the all encompassing MMF. No thanks, Danny. Your track record proceeds you. You are one of the problems, not the solution. JMO

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 7:00am
Vet,
 
Agreed!!!
 
I was considering a vote for Ms. Bronston, UNTIL she teamed up with Mr. Picard!!!
 
I think that the best move is to vote for JOSH LAUBACH ONLY...and hope that the rest of council is smart enough (probably a longshot) to analyze the results and realize that a large number of the voters only cast ONE of their two possible votes...deciding instead to withhold their vote from ANY "in crowd, MMF, flunkie" candidate.


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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 7:14am
Got an older lady living next door. We have talked on occasion and she seems very nice. Next thing I know, she has two Mort signs in her yard. Wonder what happened to her? She seemed so reasonable.

Yep, I too was going to vote for Bronston. Then, when I saw she had teamed up with Danny, I kinda lost a little enthusiasm for her. I hate to go to the polls today and leave most of the ballot blank, but, for me, there really isn't very much to choose from. Guess Laubach comes the closest to agreement, but he still has some issues I disagree with him on. Sometimes, his statements in the paper support exactly what is wrong with this town. I am surprised at some of his positions on matters. Really not anyone on council nor school board that will offer what this town really needs IMO. No one to offset the common thinking pattern around here.

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 7:32am
Vet,
Just because you can't find candidates as perfect as WE would be (LOL) doesn't mean you shouldn't vote!!!  Sometimes you just have to look for who is likely to do the least harm.
 
At least vote for Josh!!!  If you don't and he doesn't win, you'll be kicking yourself every first and third Tuesday for the next two years!!! 


-------------
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 7:55am
is Josh a tea partier? Just asking!!


Posted By: ktf1179
Date Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 7:58am
I will be voting for Josh and Ms, Bronston. Time to start to kick out the old guard.


Posted By: Justsayin
Date Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 10:28pm
Get rid of Judy and Marty and the financial picture gets better.


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Nov 06 2013 at 1:50am
Bronston and Picard are going to save the 26 police and firemen's jobs. I received several phone calls days before the election stating so...I just hope they can crap Benjamin Franklins. LOL 


Posted By: ktf1179
Date Posted: Nov 06 2013 at 4:53am
Sure they can, after all the federal reserve is doing it as we speakLOL


Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Nov 06 2013 at 6:43am

And so the union tactics win again.  More bloated staffing, more deficit spending, hello bankruptcy.  At least with a vote for the school bond issue we would actually have something to show for it.  Not now.



Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Nov 06 2013 at 8:50am
Dan Picard pulled one out of Tony Marconni's old playbook - he got in bed with the unions.


Posted By: ktf1179
Date Posted: Nov 06 2013 at 8:55am
Right to Work will probably be on the ballot in Ohio for the next Fall Election. If that passes say goodbye to Union Power. Even though Unions won this battle, they are loosing the War.

-This is from the Columbus Dispatch Oct. 15th 2013

----------------------------------------------------------------

Supporters of a proposed “right-to-work” issue on Ohio’s 2014 statewide ballot said they have gathered 100,000 signatures and plan a big push next month for more names.

Ohioans for Workplace Freedom said it has about 200 people collecting signatures of Ohio registered voters who want to vote on the issue next year as a citizen-initiated constitutional amendment. To get it on the ballot, the group must collect 385,247 valid signatures by next year, along with a minimum amount from 44 of 88 counties. The group estimates it will have to submit more than 500,000 names, to account for invalid signatures that are discarded.

“Right-to-work” has been a flashpoint for union members in Ohio since 1958, when citizens rejected a statewide initiative.

The proposal, if approved, would not eliminate unions but would ban mandatory union membership and the practice of allowing unions to assess nonunion members for union dues, or an equivalent.

The proposed amendment says, “No law, rule, agreement or arrangement shall require any person or employer to become or remain a member of a labor organization.” Similarly, no one could be forced to pay dues or an assessment as part of a labor agreement. Anyone who is “directly or indirectly affected or threatened by harm” as a result of violation could file civil legal action and receive payment for damages and attorney fees.

Bruce Hull, a Greene County man who is coordinator of the petition drive, said in an email that this year’s Nov. 5 election is “the perfect opportunity to make huge progress on right-to-work Ohio. ... Done right, I believe we can obtain 100,000 signatures in one day.”

He said that will require having 10 to 15 people gathering signatures in each Ohio county on Election Day. The group has backing largely from tea party affiliates and other conservative organizations.

Some state lawmakers have tried to spark interest for right-to-work legislation in the General Assembly. Bills have been introduced by Rep. Kristina Roegner, R-Hudson, and Rep. Ron Maag, R-Lebanon, addressing the public sector. However, legislative leaders, also Republicans, have shown little interest.

Democrats and unions, including the Ohio AFL-CIO, are pushing back hard, slamming the proposal as worse than Senate Bill 5, the public-sector collective-bargaining law Ohio voters rolled back in 2011.

The full text of the proposed amendment is available at:

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/ballotboard/2012/WF_SummaryFullText.pdf" rel="nofollow - www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/ballotboard/ 2012/WF_SummaryFullText.pdf .




Posted By: Nick_Kidd
Date Posted: Nov 06 2013 at 5:31pm
This is part of a report I saw on WLWT 5 news Monday Nov. 4, 2013:
 

"Middletown tops the state in property crimes.Dead

Nationally, compared to other cities the same size, Middletown had the second-most burglaries, thefts, motor vehicle thefts and arsons, per capita.

Middletown reported 4,039 crimes against property last year.

Also, in both cities, police departments have been forced to make cuts. Middletown was down 17 officers; 21 in Hamilton.

"So we don't have as much discretionary patrol time where we can have officers out there in the community trying to suppress crime," Reeve said.

Although Middletown is number one in the state, its overall crime rate has dropped from the previous year by seven percent."

This report will certainly help our image and reputation. Council allowed Judy to lay off patrol officers earlier this year, even though we were just starting the fifth year of a five year levy that guarenteed no lay offs. Those lay offs brought the number of officers on the streets to the lowest number in about 50 years. Also, remember that every time they hired a patrol officer, another patrol officer moved up to Sgt. and a Sgt. up to Lt. Therefore MPD had more chiefs than indians, and the average officer in Middletown cost us more than any other average officer that I could find(including New York City). Thanks council and Judy for one more nail in the coffin of Middletown.

Oh, I almost forgot, Middletown was number 3 in the whole country for the most property crimes. Since the police don't answer their phone (other than 911) I would have to believe that the true crime nubers are much higher.


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Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem.


Posted By: Iron Man
Date Posted: Nov 06 2013 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

The ONLY hope we will have for maintaining adequate public safety forces going forward is to elect council members who will make prudent fiscal decisions on ALL matters, not just public safety.
 
The ONLY person running today that has any ACTUAL record of even partially doing so is JOSH LAUBACH!!!
 
The others have only SAID they will do so at election time...but have NEVER actually done so!!!
 
If you REALLY believe in PUBLIC SAFETY for Middletown...Vote for Mr. LAUBACH!!!


Very good post!

The same cuts will obviously have to be made under Picard and Bronson.

Unfortunately though, they'll be damaging, unplanned, reactionary cuts. Unlike the responsible, prudent fiscal responsibility we enjoyed under Councilman Laubach, the best City Councilmen Middletown has had for decades.




Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Nov 06 2013 at 5:43pm
Did Josh's Tea Party views cost him relection?


Posted By: Iron Man
Date Posted: Nov 06 2013 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by ktf1179 ktf1179 wrote:

Unions won this battle, they are loosing the War.





Posted By: Iron Man
Date Posted: Nov 06 2013 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by over the hill over the hill wrote:

Did Josh's Tea Party views cost him relection?


Looking out for the taxpayers best interests in the face of powerful, out of control special interests didn't help him.




Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Nov 06 2013 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by Iron Man Iron Man wrote:

Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

The ONLY hope we will have for maintaining adequate public safety forces going forward is to elect council members who will make prudent fiscal decisions on ALL matters, not just public safety.
 
The ONLY person running today that has any ACTUAL record of even partially doing so is JOSH LAUBACH!!!
 
The others have only SAID they will do so at election time...but have NEVER actually done so!!!
 
If you REALLY believe in PUBLIC SAFETY for Middletown...Vote for Mr. LAUBACH!!!


Very good post!

The same cuts will obviously have to be made under Picard and Bronson.

Unfortunately though, they'll be damaging, unplanned, reactionary cuts. Unlike the responsible, prudent fiscal responsibility we enjoyed under Councilman Laubach, the best City Councilmen Middletown has had for decades.


AGREE !!  To my memory (not great at times), the last time we had someone of this caliber was Ray Fening in the late 60's or early 70's.


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Every morning is the dawn of a new error...


Posted By: Iron Man
Date Posted: Nov 19 2013 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by 409 409 wrote:

Originally posted by Iron Man Iron Man wrote:

Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

The ONLY hope we will have for maintaining adequate public safety forces going forward is to elect council members who will make prudent fiscal decisions on ALL matters, not just public safety.
 
The ONLY person running today that has any ACTUAL record of even partially doing so is JOSH LAUBACH!!!
 
The others have only SAID they will do so at election time...but have NEVER actually done so!!!
 
If you REALLY believe in PUBLIC SAFETY for Middletown...Vote for Mr. LAUBACH!!!


Very good post!

The same cuts will obviously have to be made under Picard and Bronson.

Unfortunately though, they'll be damaging, unplanned, reactionary cuts. Unlike the responsible, prudent fiscal responsibility we enjoyed under Councilman Laubach, the best City Councilmen Middletown has had for decades.


AGREE !!  To my memory (not great at times), the last time we had someone of this caliber was Ray Fening in the late 60's or early 70's.


Josh just presented an alternate budget that can save Middletown.



Posted By: middie83
Date Posted: Nov 19 2013 at 6:50pm
VietVet: I could not agree with you more, Judy and Mulligan did promise that they would not cut. Even though I have called Larry out on this recently and he admittedly denies that he ever said this. It angers me that they had my members go door to door and tell residents this and then pulled back on their word. 

Just so everyone is clear, we have taken 0% pay increases, we have increased our health care payments, we have increased our pension contributions. We did spend countless work hours doing a staffing model study and looking at alternatives that showed the model that we have now is the most cost efficient. We have made concessions and continue to look and see what we can do. However, I can't imagine many people in the FD or anyone on here being able to swallow something such as a 20% pay cut on top of all that we have already given. 

I did ask Larry what about supplementing the golf course? His response was "that is next." REALLY!! We are going to look at the golf course AFTER layoffs to PUBLIC SAFETY!! 

The city manager continues to try and put the blame on the union. The mayor points his finger at the union. What have they done to turn the city around??? They cheer and say their not dying and have so much new business but then cry poor. Which is it?? 




-------------
Chris Klug
Vice President
Middletown Firefighters Local 336
middieff165@gmail.com


Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 19 2013 at 10:12pm
Charge Of The Light Brigade, Rode The 600 (AKA AK union v. 2.0)
 
Going down swinging.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhG-vLZrb-g" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhG-vLZrb-g


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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 6:45am
Bottom line....we need fire and police services despite the issues discussed here concerning the union mentality, the debate between the union saying they are giving up pay, paying more into their benefits packages, etc. and the city saying the union will not give up anything in negotiations. Who knows which side is telling it the way it really is?

Gotta have the services, Unfortunately, they are expensive and take most of the general fund budget money. Who knows how it would have faired if, in the past 4 or 5 decades ago, the city and the unions would have both been reasonable at the negotiation table. Didn't happen. Either the city negotiators were too weak and gave in to every demand, or the union was too stubborn and insistent on having it their own way. However it went, we all know now that the situation has hit the fan and each side will pay a price. Did the city see the high dollar costs coming each year as they pulled more and more from the general fund? Sure they did. Did they address the situation years ago and work with the union to lessen the impact........nope.

Shouldn't surprise anyone. The city hasn't been good money-managers for decades. They have spent revenue on unnecessary pet projects and have totally ignored placing the basics on top of the priority list. Golf courses, bike paths, downtown revitalization, fancy lights for the S. Main St group, buying buildings with no plans other than to "mothball" them, money lending to select groups, you name it, they have wasted millions that should have gone to sewers, streets, infrastructure and the basics, It was ignored for decades....now we shall pay the price.

A budget ain't rocket science....

1. Collect money coming in. Total the money
2. Pay all bills first- a must do
3. Total the money left
4. Place money into funds that address the basics-street/sewer/police/fire services
5. Any remaining money? Place in emergency fund
6. DO NOT DEVIATE AND REMOVE MONEY FOR PET PROJECTS.
7. WHILE DOING STEP 1 THRU STEP 6.........BUILD REVENUE THROUGH ADDITIONAL EMPLOYMENT BY ESTABLISHING ADDITIONAL COMPANIES IN CITY COLLECTING CORPORATE AND INCOME TAXES ALONG THE WAY. MAKE IT IRRESISTABLE FOR BUSINESSES TO LOCATE HERE, FILLING EMPTY BUILDINGS AND CREATING MORE JOBS WITH PAYROLL/BUSINESS TAXES. AS THE REVENUE BUILDS AND REACHES A CERTAIN LEVEL, THEN LOOK AT SOME EXTRAS. LEAN AND MEAN UNTIL THERE IS MORE MONEY. BACK OFF THE IDEA TO TAX EVERYONE LIVING IN THE CITY TO DEATH AS YOUR ONLY IDEA FOR A SOURCE OF REVENUE. NO ONE WANTS TO LIVE IN A CITY WITH NO OFFERINGS AND HIGH TAXES.

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 9:38am
     If everyone would look closely at what Josh Laubach has proposed, what Vet has pointed out and what Chis Klug has observed we will find most of our solutions to our public safety and financial problems in the city of Middletown. The answers are not in the proposals of city council and the lunatic administration that has brought this city down.
     I want to add some more things to consider. Some of which I have been proposing for years.
      1. Josh Laubach ought to be written up in Profiles of Courage. He fits all of the criteria. I'm proud of him.
      2. I have never found the fire and police unions in this city to be unreasonable. They have always been tough but not unreasonable. Their services have been excellent. However, as I have pointed out in the past they are short sighted. They need to start thinking long-term. Nothing stays the same. Everything changes. So do our economies. The city needs to establish a bonus program that is used only to supplement public safety employees. When finances are low we would dip into the bonus account  instead of annual raises. We need to have only the number of safety employees that it takes to serve a city like Middletown both population wise and square mileage wise. Then do like Josh Laubach says and operate from a balanced budget. Both the city and the employees would share any gravy or sacrifes to be made. Also, the police and Fire employees (most of whom live outside of Middletown need to quit going door to door art election time. That is interfering with municipal elections and I believe a good case could be made for interfering with local elections. (Note what Chris Klug said about them being asked to go door to door ( asked by whom?). Where is our city attorney on all of this type of unethical behavior.
      3. Viet Vet's comments on this page along with Josh's budget proposal point out enough items that would reduce many of our financial problems and at least put us into a balanced budget. We all support our public employees but we all need to be reasonable. Cutting some administrative staff on all levels is imperative. We would then make adjustments to those positioned salaries and hire less staff.  I hate to see anyone lose a job but many were hired only to support a weak and failing administration.
       4. We must all be outraged by the audacity and deceit of our city manager. She is always using public safety funds and threatening public safety when she has to cover up some of her outrageous spending sprees and incompetence in keeping city finances under control. She should resign or be fired immediately and city leaders need to show some leadership and remove her instead o alllowing our city to go down and down and down. Its just plain stupid. Now is the time.
        5. Our Mayor needs to step down now. I ran against him years ago because I sized him up as a very nice, humble guy but who was not a leader and couldn't sell our city strongly enough. I was right. Now, we see him doing and saying all kinds of things that show lack of leadership.
         6. Dan Picard its time you step up to the plateand show some leadership with or without your notes and join Josh and work for the citizens of this city and turn it around. If you have the courage to do so you also will be a profile in courage . This is your time. You now have the public safety unions behind you and you could turn the tables and take the city in a new direction withour MMF or the city leaders. You have made a good first step.You would get the public support. Please do so.
          7. I disagree with those who think things are over. A new day is coming. A new industrial revolution is in the very near futurefor our country thanks to 3d printing.  Get ready and don't miss the boat.
          Finally, we need to recognize middletownusa and those who post on it for their long term commitment to the city of Middletown. May their tribe increase. We don't have to agree with each other about everything. But we all need to work, pray and answer with the best that is in us to make our city and society better.
              Paul Nagy

     


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 9:45am

Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Josh Laubach is heading in the right direction….however….I believe these cuts should also include City Hall.
JL Question: What happens if
Middletown’s revenues continue to fall?



Posted By: ktf1179
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 9:56am
   Josh Laubach for Mayor


Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 10:06am
What were Josh's proposals?  Some of us don't watch every council meeting.


Posted By: Perplexed
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 10:11am
Very well stated, Paul.  Wishing your wife and you the very best.  Be well.


Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 10:12am

I see an article about this on the Journal website.  Sounds fine but unrealistic.



Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 10:14am
I agree with you VIVIAN, didn't here a WORD about cuts in administration in the city building. If Judy thinks our city is worth saving then step up to the plate and do some hard cuts in salaries. P.G. again we all know Judy should be gone,but we also know our "paper" mayor doesn't have the B-lls to do it. Because he likes things the way they are.I have never seen someone like him who can hide his head in the sand and ignore the rest of the city like it doesn't exist.Poor excuse of a mayor. IMO Well, Josh stick around in 2 years you may be Mayor.


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 10:50am
Posted: 8:02 a.m. Wednesday, Nov. 20, 2013

Council member’s proposal: Cut police, fire salaries

By http://www.journal-news.com/staff/rick-mccrabb/" rel="nofollow - Rick McCrabb

Staff Writer

MIDDLETOWN —

On the night City Council was expected to approve the city’s 2014 budget, an out-going member threw a curveball.

Josh Laubach, who wasn’t re-elected to his second term earlier this month, proposed what he called a “sustainable alternative” budget at Tuesday night’s council meeting. Laubach told council that based on increased expenditures and reduced revenue, the city could be bankrupt by 2016.

He said it was time the city got off the fiscal “roller coaster.”

Based on projects, he said, the city would have an ending balance of negative $1.7 million by 2015, and that number would jump to $4.9 million by 2016. He said under the current trajectory, cost of the city’s “most valuable services,” police and fire, will increase up to $26 million a year in the next decade and that would consume nearly 95 percent of today’s general fund revenues.

He said a moderate tax levy and economic growth would not be enough to offset the rise in personnel costs.

Laubach said the city needs to balance its budget annually, and maintain public safety within a 65-68 percent window of total general fund expenditures.

Based on his alternative proposed budget, Laubach said the city could avoid layoffs to the police and fire departments, add five patrol officer positions, add two full-time and five part-time positions in the fire department and maintain a 15-percent balance for long-term stability.

To reach this goal, he said the average cost of a police officer would have to drop from $107,000 to $92,000 and the average cost of a fire fighter from $104,000 to $87,000. The average cost of all other city employees would remain at $83,000, he said.

The unions that represent those in public safety would have to rework their contracts. City Manager Judy Gilleland had said earlier the unions refused to renegotiate the contracts.

Vice mayor Dan Picard, a vocal supporter of public safety, which he credited for his re-election, doubted whether Middletown could attract police and fire fighters to work in the city if the wages were significantly lower than surrounding communities.

Laubach argued they’d work in Middletown if they knew the city was on solid financial footing.

Mayor Larry Mulligan said he thought the budget proposal was “worth pursuing.”

Laubach then was critical of Picard for supporting public safety, but never proposing ways to financially support the police and fire departments. By the end of the 2 1/2-hour meeting, Picard and Laubach, who sit next to each other, rarely made eye contact.

Council approved the 2014 budget, and said it would consider Laubach’s proposal and discuss further at the next meeting, Dec. 3. Picard tried unsuccessfully to get the overtime money from the police and fire departments removed from the budget and he wanted Gilleland to reapply for public safety grants, but no one on council would second his motions.

The city is considering eliminating as many as 22 public safety positions, 15 from the fire department and seven from the police department, by 2015. City officials say budget projections won’t allow the city to sustain its workforce, and since 70 percent of the general fund is earmarked to public safety, that’s where the majority of cuts must come.

Cris Kelly, president of the FOP Local 36, and Chris Klug, vice president of IAFF Local 336, have said they don’t want the cuts to come out of the public safety budget.

Gilleland said she’d like to reduce the size of the city’s fire department from 79 positions to 64 by the end of 2014, which would include nine firefighters and six grant-funded positions. No positions can be lost until the grant terminates in September 2014, she said.

She’d also like for the city to reduce the size of the police department by seven, the four police officers whose salaries are funded through grants and not fill the three vacant positions: two dispatchers and one corrections officer.

She said $2.25 million needs to be reduced in general fund expenditures over the next two to three years and those cuts are set to be split proportionally among police, fire and non-public safety.



Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 11:19am
Pardon the interruption but:
 
FACT; SR5 dealt with this issue and was defeated, now the city is doing it.
 
FACT- Economics 101, businesses model budgets weekly, the model is correct.
 
FACT: Fairfield has volunteers that fight fires, lowered numbers to run EMT; fact, Middletown has 65%  senior citizen ratio, but ball is in fire fighter court, make concessions or out of job.
 
FACT: No Dan Picard, shill of fire union, they won't go elsewhere, no place to go. They also  want the pecking order for advancement. They lose such when they move to another city, unless chief takes chief, Captain takes Captain, that rarely occurs.
 
FACT- Outsourcing administrative functions is appropriate, and a cost savor.
 
FACT- cuts should extend through administrative functions, including court, management, clerks, et al.
 
FACT- Dora and Dan will not have the majority to have impact saving the cuts.
 
FACT- city hired ED personnel that did not deliver.
 
FACT- city gave Atrium $5 Mm for infrastructure that did not deliver jobs as stated.
 
FACT- AK move to West Chester hurt tax revenues, city is not recovering.
 
FACT- attempts to raise taxes will come, but they will fai, school levy litmus test.
 
FACT- negotiate and bargain saves jobs, fighting windmills and losing jobs has no benefit. Ask AK union.   . 


-------------
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 12:03pm
"The unions that represent those in public safety would have to rework their contracts. City Manager Judy Gilleland had said earlier the unions refused to renegotiate the contracts"

"Gilleland said she’d like to reduce the size of the city’s fire department from 79 positions to 64 by the end of 2014, which would include nine firefighters and six grant-funded positions. No positions can be lost until the grant terminates in September 2014, she said.

She’d also like for the city to reduce the size of the police department by seven, the four police officers whose salaries are funded through grants and not fill the three vacant positions: two dispatchers and one corrections officer.

She said $2.25 million needs to be reduced in general fund expenditures over the next two to three years and those cuts are set to be split proportionally among police, fire and non-public safety."

SO, IT WOULD APPEAR GILLELAND HAS IT OUT FOR THE POLICE AND FIRE UNIONS FOR NOT SEEING IT HER WAY IN NEGOTIATIONS. THEN, PROMPTLY SINGLES OUT THE FIRE AND POLICE DEPTS USING CUTS TO "GET EVEN" PERHAPS? MAYBE ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HER VINDICTIVE CHILDISH BEHAVIOR? SHE DIDN'T GET THAT NICKNAME OF THE "QUEEN" FOR NOTHING DID SHE? SHE'S PROBABLY BEEN GIVEN OTHER NAMES THAT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE TO MENTION HERE.

I NOTICED SHE HAS YET TO MENTION ANY CUTS, INCLUDING HER GIVING UP SOME OF HER 6 FIGURE SALARY TO HELP THE CAUSE. HOW ABOUT SOME SACRIFICE AT THE CITY BUILDING FOR PEOPLE IN THE UPPER POSITIONS? IF SHE IS TOUTING SACRIFICE WITH THE SAFETY PERSONNEL SHE SHOULD SET AN EXAMPLE AND TAKE A HIT HERSELF. OTHERWISE, SHE HAS NO CREDIBILITY. BUT....WHAT ELSE IS NEW.

CONCERNING LAUBACH'S SUGGESTIONS.......SHOULDN'T THE FINANCE DIRECTOR BEEN KEEPING UP WITH THIS DILEMMA AND ROUTINELY INFORMING THE COUNCIL, CITY MANAGER AND OTHERS ALL ALONG? THE FINANCIAL DIRECTOR WORKS WITH THE MONEY FLOW EVERY DAY. WHERE HAVE THEY BEEN ALL THIS TIME? DID IT TAKE A COUNCILMEMBER TO BRING THIS TO THE ATTENTION OF THE OTHERS. SHOULDN'T THE OTHER COUNCILMEMBERS BEEN ON TOP OF THIS ALL ALONG? ISN'T THE REVENUE AND EXPENDITURES OF CITY MONEY ONE OF THE TOP PRIORITIES FOR CITY LEADERSHIP? WHAT HAVE THE COUNCIL AND CITY BUILDING LEADERS BEEN DOING WHEN READING THE YEARLY BUDGET PROJECTIONS, WITH CONCENTRATION ON MONEY TAKEN IN VERSUS MONEY PAID OUT? THEY TALKED ABOUT DECLINING REVENUE, BUT STOPPED SHORT OF ACTUALLY ACTING ON SOLUTIONS TO REMEMDY THE SITUATION (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF GRANTS,FED LOANS, HUD MONEY, ETC) HANDOUTS IS THEIR SOLUTION TO REVENUE GENERATION. TOTALLY CLUELESS. TOTALLY INEPT.

WHERE IS THE COMMON SENSE IN MONEY HANDLING? LAUBACH TALKS ABOUT THE STATE OF THE CITY FINANCES IN THE FUTURE. NONE OF THE OTHERS HAS GIVEN IT A THOUGHT APPARENTLY......UNTIL THIS MEETING. AND THEN THERE'S MULLIGAN THE MAYOR, MUMBLING COMMENTS THAT MEAN NOTHING. HE CUTS RIBBONS AND READS PROCLAMATIONS REAL WELL. HE'S A SMILING FACE FOR THE CITY........BUT ASIDE FROM THAT, HE IS WITHOUT SUBSTANCE NOR REALLY CONTRIBUTES. AGREE.....MAKE LAUBACH THE LEADER OF THE COUNCIL MEETINGS AND DIRECTION. SEND LAWRENCE BACK TO S. MAIN WITH HIS BUDDIES.




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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: HdMechanical
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 12:28pm
http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/local/layoffs-may-follow-sb-5-defeat-local-officials-s-1/nNKyw/" rel="nofollow - http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/local/layoffs-may-follow-sb-5-defeat-local-officials-s-1/nNKyw/

http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/local/brownout-avoided-as-council-wrestles-with-fire-bud/nNfRc/" rel="nofollow - http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/local/brownout-avoided-as-council-wrestles-with-fire-bud/nNfRc/

http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/local/middletown-council-cuts-police-fire-jobs/nNfSr/" rel="nofollow - http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/local/middletown-council-cuts-police-fire-jobs/nNfSr/

With the passage of SB5 the city would have had options. But now they will cut jobs, hopefully care packages were made up for the fellow union members who will be cut. After all you have had 2 years to see the writing on the wall. Pay concessions across the board maintains current staffing. The next time your union tells you something , research it for yourselves before voting........CommonSense applied to the SB5 vote would have been a game changer today..

Regardless of union contracts  , when the city has no money there will be cuts in staffing.........


Posted By: HdMechanical
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 12:46pm
Really defeat of SB5 made the decisions easier..........Cut jobs to balance budgets.  


http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/state-regional/sb-5-impact-on-public-safety-could-vary-by-area/nMt9W/" rel="nofollow - http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/state-regional/sb-5-impact-on-public-safety-could-vary-by-area/nMt9W/

Gary Sheets, Butler County human resources director, said SB 5 was introduced to give the management side more authority and restrict certain bargaining issues.

Sheets said there is jealousy between certain groups; for instance, some have step increases that others don’t have.

“Well, when I begin to hear people who are not in bargaining units say they wish they were in a bargaining unit, that concerns me,” Sheets said.

Binding arbitration

Changes to binding arbitration would affect all departments, said Kettering City Manager Mark Schwieterman.

Instead of an independent, third-party arbitrator deciding the issues, SB 5 gives that task to elected representatives — city councils and city commissions.

“That changes the process and the final resolution,” Schwieterman said.

Many local council members and city managers have long complained that the current binding arbitration favors unions, driving up contract costs.

Schwieterman said SB 5’s elimination of third-party binding arbitration would increase control at the local level.

“The reliance on the third party for that decision has taken the final decision away from our elected officials.”



Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 12:50pm
Correction o multiple fronts:
FACT- Bill Becker ran this financial model and stated openly and repeatedly (and exactly) what Mr. Laubach said when Becker was city manager as far back as early 2000 period.
FACT- Paragraph 4- Gilleland:
  "She said $2.25 million needs to be reduced in general fund expenditures over the next two to three years and those cuts are set to be split proportionally among police, fire and non-public safety."
Non public safety means administrative staff.
FACT- Becker states 25% is required to run city 90 days; Laubach states he is fine with 15%, or about 45 days surplus funding. High risk in 15% set aside fund. Disagree with JL on analysis.
 
FACTS are friends, not enemies.


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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 2:10pm

Acclaro
We need the cuts at City Hall in order to have extra money to put back into the reserve funds to bring them to 25 percent again.
I still believe that the revenues of
Middletown
will continue to decline over the next three years.
The only problem with Josh’s proposal is that it should have been adopted 14 years ago.



Posted By: Perplexed
Date Posted: Nov 20 2013 at 4:18pm
I agree, Vivian.  ClapClap



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