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S Sutphin at Arlington

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Historic House Guy View Drop Down
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    Posted: Aug 04 2013 at 1:23pm
Since it was mentioned in another post, I thought I would ask a few questions in a new thread rather than throw the other thread off track.

It was mentioned that this area is one of the high crime area's but I have to say, I just don't see that. How old is this information? Where did it come from? I have a corner lot here and every house on these four corners are single family and owned by the occupants. I read the police blotter on the regular and don't ever see anything involving crime within 3 to 4 blocks in the year we've lived in this house.

Another question I have is does anyone have any pictures of this area? I've done some poking around under the aluminum siding on our house so that I'll know what to expect once we go to take it off next year. Also, we have a living space on top of our front porch and I've never seen that before. Are there any other examples of this style house in Middletown? It's very unusual.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Historic House Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 04 2013 at 1:24pm
Well, crud. I thought I posted the picture we had after all the windows were removed from the front porch but you get the idea...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 04 2013 at 1:54pm
house guy--most of the issues are behind the west side of Supthin(Moore, Crawford, down Logan/Linden etc.)
While Supthin has changed, it is still fairly safe IF you watch yourself, your property and your belongings.
Still--keep your doors and vehicles locked at night with nothing of value in sight(common sense anywhere)
 
Doesn't matter where u r--it can happen.
Our police dept. is overwhelmed with theft and heroin at this time.
Watch your supplies and property wherever you might be working in town
 
Not trying to be negative--simply precautionary and helpful(honest!)
 
jmo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Historic House Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 04 2013 at 1:54pm
Had to put the right picture in. Marty K. told me the attic windows use to have stained glass in them. So bummed to have those crappy plastic windows now! Another reason I'd like to find a photo or two of this great house!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Historic House Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 04 2013 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

house guy--most of the issues are behind the west side of Supthin(Moore, Crawford, down Logan/Linden etc.)
While Supthin has changed, it is still fairly safe IF you watch yourself, your property and your belongings.
Still--keep your doors and vehicles locked at night with nothing of value in sight(common sense anywhere)
 
Doesn't matter where u r--it can happen.
Our police dept. is overwhelmed with theft and heroin at this time.
Watch your supplies and property wherever you might be working in town
 
Not trying to be negative--simply precautionary and helpful(honest!)
 
jmo

Thanks John,

We have ADT monitoring and 3 cameras are going up soon on the outside. My van has an alarm as well. We both took our CCW classes a few weeks ago and are working on our list of former residences. My wife and I have both lived in a lot of places so it's taken a while to create the list but we're well armed in the house and have a very big black lab that doesn't care for people unless they are introduced.

This city is no different than most others I've lived in (Syracuse, NY, Albany, NY, Nashville, Tn and others).

The only problem we ever had was a black guy who we've never seen before stopped and harassed my wife. He asked her a bunch of questions about who she lived with and when he said "I'll bet you husband isn't home" My dog, "Mr. Bigsley" started bouncing his head off the front window and as she backed up she pulled her 38 cal out. He hauled ass and we haven't seen him since. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 04 2013 at 4:54pm

HHG
    This house looks like a modified American Four Square with a hip roof that was built about 1910-1920 in this area. I have redesigned many of these homes over the years and I have never seen rooms over the front porch. The second story front windows do not seem to be the correct proportion for the space to my eye, to much blank space between the bottoms of the windows and the top of the porch. Maybe they added the rooms over the front porch when they modified the house into a two family home. I will take a closer look the next time I drive by your house.
    I noticed that you have a fireplace so the tiles around your fireplace may be from Rookwood Pottery in Cincy.

It was mentioned that this area is one of the high crime area's but I have to say, I just don't see that. How old is this information? Where did it come from? I have a corner lot here and every house on these four corners are single family and owned by the occupants. I read the police blotter on the regular and don't ever see anything involving crime within 3 to 4 blocks in the year we've lived in this house.
HHG

I believe Sutphin is the dividing line for the 2nd ward Sherman area so you live across the street from the highest poverty and crime area.
The 96 page report was done by UC in June of 2010, City of
Middletown Section 8 Analysis. It covered every neighborhood in Middletown.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 3:39am

HHG
I dove past your house yesterday so I could get a better look at the foundation of your front porch. It looks like the original front porch foundation to me therefore the  rooms over the front porch were part of the original design plan.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 9:44am
I do appluad HHG, for moving to Middletown and investing in improving this area. If Middletown can keep getting people like that to move in and improve the area one house at a time, you will slowly see the neighbors start to do the same thing. Hopefully people not from this area will see the great historic houses here, and will want to improve them, and also help improve the community.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 10:34am

ktf
I agree we need more young home owners to move into the area.
We have some really great 100 year old homes all over this town with high ceilings, wide moldings on large lots at bargain prices.
It is true that they are a pain to work on but they are beautiful when they are completed. They are great starter homes for young couples.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMAO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 12:44pm
If someone buys one of these 100 year old homes is there certain rules that you have to go by to do up grades on it? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by LMAO LMAO wrote:

If someone buys one of these 100 year old homes is there certain rules that you have to go by to do up grades on it? 



I thought the S. Main St. and Highlands areas had some rules about historic home upgrades. Didn't we discuss this on this site in the past? I think the upgrade rules apply only if you are in a designated historic district, don't they?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 2:45pm

No rules or conditions unless the home is located within a historic district.
You will need to bring the property up to code.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMAO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 4:07pm
Thank you. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

No rules or conditions unless the home is located within a historic district.
You will need to bring the property up to code.

The rules apply wherever the history Nazis want them to apply.  They regularly enforce them downtown, I mean clowntown, albeit selectively.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Historic House Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 6:52pm
A few good people have purchased homes around us since we've been here. The house next to us, across the street at Arlington was a wreck but the new owners put a lot of hard work into it and are now living there. Still have some work to do but they've made great improvements.

The big blue brick house with 2 story tall pillars on the front was just purchased a few months ago and has a new family living there. Mine and the two others were all purchased for less than $20k. How do you not take advantage of that???

We had originally put in an offer on a house at South Main St but after signing several extensions and finding out the house was 2 generations deep in bankruptcy we decided to move on. It eventually sold but I feel we got the better deal here. It took about $2k to get things livable and a lot of our hard work pulling carpets to discover hardwood floors on the first floor. Nice compliment to the beautiful pocket door and fireplace. You just don't get this stuff anymore!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Historic House Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 7:01pm
This is the house across the corner from us. An elderly lady lives there and I don't know anything about her but to me, this house inspires me to get our place back to it's original fabrics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Historic House Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

You will need to bring the property up to code.


Actually, that's not true. The property is grandfathered. The only time you'll need to bring anything up to code is if you're making changes to a certain element of the house. If you have knob and tube wiring, you don't have to invest in changing it all unless (lets say your putting in a new kitchen. In that scenario, only wiring that services the kitchen needs to be brought up to code.

If you tear off those low railings on your front porch because you're convinced they can't be saved then you have to replace them with the ugly 36" high railings (instead of the typical 28" height of the older ones). Enjoy your view of your new bulky top rail...

I think the biggest mistake of old home owners is they just start tearing things out and then discover they need to comply with new codes when they replace things. It totally destroys the balance and design of the older home and you can never go back from there. Sad really.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 10:44pm
HHG, by chance, do you do restoration of hard wood floors? I have an upstairs with 5 bedrooms and a large hall, all  hardwood, I wanted stripped, which I would re-stain. If so, could you send me please a private message with your business phone number? That might be on the facebook link as well. Thanks.
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 08 2013 at 5:19am
Originally posted by Richard Saunders Richard Saunders wrote:

Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

No rules or conditions unless the home is located within a historic district.
You will need to bring the property up to code.

The rules apply wherever the history Nazis want them to apply.  They regularly enforce them downtown, I mean clowntown, albeit selectively.
 
Bad luck, Historic Guy!!!  Saunders is correct!!!  Clowntown...oops...I mean downtown...is NOT a historic district and the Historic Council does indeed regularly enforce their will upon property owners (other than their friends) there.
 
Moreover, you should take care to stay on Kohler's good side.  You are already in violation of several parts of our illustrious "Historic Ordinance 1210", and are subject to a fine of $750 and imprisonment of 90 days for EACH and EVERY DAY that you remain in violation!!!  Treat Kohler and the other "historic Nazis" to regular treats of wine and cheese and you have nothing to worry about.
 
If you think I'm kidding, consider the following excerpts from Middletown's Codified City Ordinances:
 

1210.03 HISTORIC COMMISSION

(e) General Powers and Duties. The Historic Commission shall have the following powers and duties, in addition to those otherwise specified:

(1) The Historic Commission shall conduct a continuous survey of all areas, places, structures, works of art, or similar objects in the City which the Commission has reason to believe are or will be eligible for designation as historic sites, landmarks or districts.

 
[HHG: Your house is a "place" and a "structure" that is "in the city", so at any time during one of its "continuous surveys" the Historic Nazis can claim jurisdiction by simply stating a "belief" that it may be eligible for such designation.]
 
1210.05 DESIGNATION OF A HISTORIC LANDMARK OR HISTORIC DISTRICT

(a) Criteria. In considering any area, place, structure, work of art or similar object in the City as a historic site or historic district, the Historic Commission shall apply the following criteria:

 (4) Its embodiment of distinguishing characteristics of an architectural style or type;

 
[HHG: You, yourself, pointed out your house's "distinguishing characteristic" of living space above the porch!!!]

ts unique location

 

 

§ 1210.08 APPLICATIONS FOR CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS.

(a)   Any application to the Department of Planning and Economic Development or to the Division of Inspection for a demolition or building permit shall also be deemed an application for a certificate of appropriateness, and shall be forwarded to the Council on Landmarks and Historic Districts, together with copies of all detailed plans, designs, elevations, specifications, and related documents, along with a recommendation for approval or rejection from the Historic Preservation Administrator, within seven days after receipt thereof.

 

§ 1210.13 COMPLIANCE OF OTHER CITY DEPARTMENTS.

All departments, officials and public employees of the City vested with the duty or authority to issue permits or licenses shall comply with the provisions of this chapter and shall issue no permit or license for any use, building or purpose in conflict with the provisions of this chapter. Any permit or license issued in conflict with the provisions of this chapter shall be null and void and of no effect whatever.

 

[Don't think that any permit or permission from any other department can save you from the wrath of these people!!!  Re-read the above!!!]

 

§ 1210.21 CONFLICTS OF LAW.

Where a provision of this chapter is found to be in conflict with a provision in any other law, the provision that establishes the higher standard shall prevail.

 

[HHG:  Trust me!!!  No matter what any building code or any other "provision in any other law" says, the demands of the Historic Nazis will be the higher (and more expensive) standard!!!]

 

§ 1210.99 PENALTY; EQUITABLE REMEDIES.

(a) Whoever violates or fails to comply with any of the provisions of this chapter is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree and shall be fined not more than seven hundred fifty dollars ($750.00) or imprisoned not more than 90 days, or both. A separate offense shall be deemed committed each day during or on which a violation or noncompliance occurs or continues.

 
[HHG; So, how many days have you been in violation???  We have several excellent bakers in town, but I don't know of any that will include a hacksaw in any of their delicious cakes.]
 
Disclaimer:  I am not, nor do I claim to be, an attorney or other person licensed to practice law in the State of Ohio.  Statements made by me are opinions only, and should not be taken as, or relied upon as, legal advice.  Please seek competent legal counsel for your particular situation.
 
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Historic House Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 08 2013 at 7:49am
I understand the rules but how am I in violation? I spoke with Marty when we purchased the house and so far have not needed any permits for the work I've done aside from electrical.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Historic House Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 08 2013 at 7:59am
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

HHG, by chance, do you do restoration of hard wood floors? I have an upstairs with 5 bedrooms and a large hall, all  hardwood, I wanted stripped, which I would re-stain. If so, could you send me please a private message with your business phone number? That might be on the facebook link as well. Thanks.
 
Sure do. Can't post pictures from my phone but you can see some of the floors on my Facebook page. My contact info is also there.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redleg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2014 at 10:27pm
I note new gas meters on houses in this area. Have the gas lines on South Sutphin been replaced?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2014 at 2:21am
Originally posted by Redleg Redleg wrote:

I note new gas meters on houses in this area. Have the gas lines on South Sutphin been replaced?
Only the ones that have exploded.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redleg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 10 2014 at 1:44pm
I owned a house on S. Sutphin in the 70s. When replacing the water line I got a look at the gas line and it was ancient. I'd hate to think it's still in use.
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