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Teacher evaluations

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chmoore View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 5:40pm
W-A-C:  Actually, the parents and students (even the taxpayers of Middletown) are stakeholders, not customers.  As stakeholders, each are in partnership with the educators to work together for better results.  Stakeholders  aren't "employers"---they are partners.  As I have stated before, I am NOT a teacher;  I, do, however, defend teachers.  Looking back on my high school days, I fell off as a junior.  I lost interest, fell behind in my schoolwork, and went from "A"s and "B"s to "C"s, "D's, and "F"s.  It was my fault.  I had the IQ (130+) to get straight "A"s but I thought it was "cooler" to get low grades.  If Kiki Demetrion hadn't given me a "D" on my final reading in Latin IV I wouldn't have graduated---Thank you, Mrs. Gordon!.  My point is, my home situation wasn't responsible ;my parents weren't responsible; my town wasn't responsible; the neighbors weren't responsible; Ms. Demetrion wasn't responsible---she wanted me to get "A"s..  I was responsible.  Today, I would be considered in the "at-risk" group, with an IEP and remedial classes, and everyone would be screaming for better teachers and accountability, and reducing their pay, and complaining how teachers hate their students.  Not much has really changed; the more they do change the more they remain the same.
c.h. moore
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sickofthebull View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sickofthebull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 5:42pm
What...I apologize for my defensive reply to sassy's entry. Please know that it comes out of total frustration and nothing else. I truly do understand that I work for the tax payer. What is most frustrating is that the low man on the pole, the teacher, is always blamed when teaching a child involves more than just one person. I absolutely love my job and the challenging children I have CHOSEN to teach. My students show growth every single year without fail but they don't always make that big test. If I could get them all to pass, believe me I would. The whole system is failing, not just teachers and it is frustrating when people bash without knowing everything. I WISH I had volunteers for my classroom. I tell parents all the time that I would LOVE to have them there but they never show. We have conferences twice a year and parents mostly don't show for either and my door is always open for any other time. All I ask is that people educate themselves on what goes on before passing judgement and that usually never happens. They see one score and think that's it, that's all she wrote. Nothing is further from the truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ground swat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 8:24pm
Dog chasing it's tail, childern having childern, so called adults using school as a day care who couldn't balance their check book if they tried. Teachers who are burned out because of the bureaucracy and the hope of making a difference in a childs development with all the good intention.  What do they do, quit?  If your not happy about the lack of response your getting head down to the next school board meeting and demand to speak and get answers. Or head down to the Admin. offices and ask for help. Document everything, it sucks but thats the world we've allowed to have to live in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TudorBrown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by chmoore chmoore wrote:

TudorBrown: I am not a teacher---never have been. With your J.D. degree (Right...!) I'm sure that you live on more than $48,000, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten your "advanced degree." And your point about 38% of Ohio teachers having Master degrees is ??????   Please do me a favor.....remove the belief that I am a teacher. I may argue for them, but I've never been one. You may rely on one thing from me on this blog----I will tell you the truth....I have nothing to hide.


You could be Mr. Belding from Saved by the Bell for all I care... Hug

I applaud you for taking on the cause of defending the Middletown City School System.  It's going to be an uphill battle my friend!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote What A City Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 6:55am
Originally posted by chmoore chmoore wrote:

W-A-C:  Actually, the parents and students (even the taxpayers of Middletown) are stakeholders, not customers.  As stakeholders, each are in partnership with the educators to work together for better results.  Stakeholders  aren't "employers"---they are partners.  As I have stated before, I am NOT a teacher;  I, do, however, defend teachers.  Looking back on my high school days, I fell off as a junior.  I lost interest, fell behind in my schoolwork, and went from "A"s and "B"s to "C"s, "D's, and "F"s.  It was my fault.  I had the IQ (130+) to get straight "A"s but I thought it was "cooler" to get low grades.  If Kiki Demetrion hadn't given me a "D" on my final reading in Latin IV I wouldn't have graduated---Thank you, Mrs. Gordon!.  My point is, my home situation wasn't responsible ;my parents weren't responsible; my town wasn't responsible; the neighbors weren't responsible; Ms. Demetrion wasn't responsible---she wanted me to get "A"s..  I was responsible.  Today, I would be considered in the "at-risk" group, with an IEP and remedial classes, and everyone would be screaming for better teachers and accountability, and reducing their pay, and complaining how teachers hate their students.  Not much has really changed; the more they do change the more they remain the same.
 
 
Sounds like you and I went through the Midd. schools at the same time. I had Demetrion for homeroom in the 8th grade at Roosevelt Jr. High around 1962 I believe. Remember her teaching Latin. Never took the course. You would remember some famous Roosevelt Jr. High names then.....Harvey Apple, Homer Sorrell, Edith Matson. Ralph Rettig, Boeke, Valda Wilkerson, Krebs, J.R. Line......I assume you went to the old high school down on Girard??? Can't remember if Demetrion taught there or not. How about Louise McBain, Barbara Schick( great English teacher), Mr. Kleinfelder for physics, Roudabush for French, Eddins for Chemistry, Mr. Stiele (sp?) for Band,  Rice for Phys Ed., Stan Lewis -AD. Dean of Boys, Jack Gordon football coach, Paul Walker basketball coach and old Skeeter Payne as an assistant at the time. Gonna have to go back to the Rotaro book  from Roosevelt and the Optimist from Middletown High to remember the rest of them. Big%20smile
 
Like you, I never excelled in school. Came close one time to making the honor roll but never really took my "student career" seriously LOL (See the movie Uncle Buck) Big%20smile More interested in playing in a garage band, trying my best to run the women, partying and having fun rather than concentrate on the school stuff. Average student at best for me. Like you, it is too bad I didn't realize how much better off I would have been now if I had taken it more seriously and yes, I too, will admit it was totally  my fault. We live with our mistakes, don't we? Ouch All in all, looking back, it's been a good run. Have 43 years of work in now......8 more to go until retirement. Thumbs%20Up Gotta do it til I'm 70. Hell, I can't even plan my retirement right! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sickofthebull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 7:49am
Originally posted by What A City What A City wrote:

Originally posted by chmoore chmoore wrote:

W-A-C:  Actually, the parents and students (even the taxpayers of Middletown) are stakeholders, not customers.  As stakeholders, each are in partnership with the educators to work together for better results.  Stakeholders  aren't "employers"---they are partners.  As I have stated before, I am NOT a teacher;  I, do, however, defend teachers.  Looking back on my high school days, I fell off as a junior.  I lost interest, fell behind in my schoolwork, and went from "A"s and "B"s to "C"s, "D's, and "F"s.  It was my fault.  I had the IQ (130+) to get straight "A"s but I thought it was "cooler" to get low grades.  If Kiki Demetrion hadn't given me a "D" on my final reading in Latin IV I wouldn't have graduated---Thank you, Mrs. Gordon!.  My point is, my home situation wasn't responsible ;my parents weren't responsible; my town wasn't responsible; the neighbors weren't responsible; Ms. Demetrion wasn't responsible---she wanted me to get "A"s..  I was responsible.  Today, I would be considered in the "at-risk" group, with an IEP and remedial classes, and everyone would be screaming for better teachers and accountability, and reducing their pay, and complaining how teachers hate their students.  Not much has really changed; the more they do change the more they remain the same.


 

 

Sounds like you and I went through the Midd. schools at the same time. I had Demetrion for homeroom in the 8th grade at Roosevelt Jr. High around 1962 I believe. Remember her teaching Latin. Never took the course. You would remember some famous Roosevelt Jr. High names then.....Harvey Apple, Homer Sorrell, Edith Matson. Ralph Rettig, Boeke, Valda Wilkerson, Krebs, J.R. Line......I assume you went to the old high school down on Girard??? Can't remember if Demetrion taught there or not. How about Louise McBain, Barbara Schick( great English teacher), Mr. Kleinfelder for physics, Roudabush for French, Eddins for Chemistry, Mr. Stiele (sp?) for Band,  Rice for Phys Ed., Stan Lewis -AD. Dean of Boys, Jack Gordon football coach, Paul Walker basketball coach and old Skeeter Payne as an assistant at the time. Gonna have to go back to the Rotaro book  from Roosevelt and the Optimist from Middletown High to remember the rest of them. Big%20smile

 

Like you, I never excelled in school. Came close one time to making the honor roll but never really took my "student career" seriously LOL (See the movie Uncle Buck) Big%20smile More interested in playing in a garage band, trying my best to run the women, partying and having fun rather than concentrate on the school stuff. Average student at best for me. Like you, it is too bad I didn't realize how much better off I would have been now if I had taken it more seriously and yes, I too, will admit it was totally  my fault. We live with our mistakes, don't we? Ouch All in all, looking back, it's been a good run. Have 43 years of work in now......8 more to go until retirement. Thumbs%20Up Gotta do it til I'm 70. Hell, I can't even plan my retirement right! LOL


What a City...you made me smile with the Uncle Buck reference!!! LOVE LOVE that scene!! "Here's a quarter...go downtown and have rat knaw that thing off your face!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sassygirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 10:28am
Get off of your high horse, sickofthebull. Your attitude is precisely the reason that parents don't like to deal academic snobs, such as yourself.

Of course I am aware and know about the benchmark testing that occurs in Middletown Schools. My kids are well nurtured, by me. Their well-being is my top priority!. The Benchmark tests are supposed to align with the state standards. If they do, and teachers adjust their instruction according to student's weaknesses, why aren't they passing the tests? Hmmm.

I just read in the Journal that the district is expecting an increase in scores. I hope so, there is no where to go but UP. There are many other districts in Ohio with similar demographics, but their students are doing much better on tests, (See Dayton and Cinci Publics). Just go to their websites. They are already posting success. Look across the nation - You will find that students schools with the lowest economic status are doing far better than Middletown.

I'm sick and tired of Middletown teachers using excuses, blaming parents and kids for their lack of academic success. Perhaps you should open your classroom door and see what's going on (or not) throughout your school, and across the country.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sickofthebull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 12:17pm
No high horse here sassy....my original post to you was an attempt to help you figure out the answers to your questions...you wanted to get defensive and nasty like I was trying to be in your business...after looking at my scores for my students this year, those who showed growth throughout the year on their benchmarks AND their common assessments (also aligned with the state test and standards) passed the test. Those who do show growth throughout the year usually do...that was all I was trying to get to...if your children showed growth throughout the year on all the progress monitoring that goes on in their classrooms then the test should have been ok for them too. As for using excuses, I have only ever posted on here what we face that causes challenges for teachers in the classrooms and also for those students who actually come to school to learn. These issues DO exist whether you and others like you want to admit it or not. You have stated that you have offered to volunteer but have heard nothing back. Why do you need to hear back? Just GO there and stay for a bit...it is DEFINITELY allowed AND encouraged....at least where I work it is, can't imagine it's much different in other buildings...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 25 2011 at 7:16am
If the teacher judging criteria is correct, Middletown teachers may be in for alot of anguish....today's Journal.....

New rules factor student success into teacher evaluations

BUTLER COUNTY — Ohio teachers will soon be evaluated in a way that departs from typical classroom observations and into the uncharted waters of rating teachers based on other factors, including student growth.

Provisions in the state budget bill call for “student academic growth” — namely test scores — to make up half of a teacher’s evaluation. The new annual reviews will allow parents and students to weigh in on teachers’ grades. Many of the rules now being developed are included in Senate Bill 5, which limits collective bargaining rights

GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE MIDD. DISTRICT'S TEST SCORES ARE NOT VERY GOOD, IN ALL GRADES, IN ALL CATEGORIES, FOR MANY YEARS NOW, AND THE FACT THAT THIS NEW EVALUATION SYSTEM MAKES UP HALF OF THE TEACHER'S EVALUATION, IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD AT THIS POINT THAT WE WILL HAVE THAT MANY SUCCESSFUL CANDIDATES, DOES IT?

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As I have stated before on this forum, Middletown test students on more than just one test in a school year to track growth. So, if the state would like to evaluate me on ALL tests, not just one, I say bring it! My hope now is that doctors and nurses start being included in this evaluation system...you know, how many people they cure in a year, how many diseases they find a cure for, every patient who dies, take a cut in pay,etc. Same goes for our police officers....fail to prevent a crime, take their money. Oh my the list goes on and on. Or better yet, why don't all us unsuccessful candidates here in Middletown go to an easier place to teach and turn our backs on those that need us (the kids) just because of the total lack of support from the community? In my classroom, and a whole lot of others like it in Middletown, I not only have to teach the standards, but also teach them how to dress appropriately according to the weather (because no one else is), show them how to eat at a table, buy them coats, Christmas gifts, school supplies and whatever else is needed. I teach because I love it, I teach here because I love it. What I don't love is those that sit back and complain even after improvements show we are on the right track, at least at school. The same problems at home exist and do effect performance but hey, who cares! Why would the community address that?? These kids, in some cases, need a strong male role model so why not volunteer at an elementary school?? VietVet, your military experience I am assuming you have would serve very well for our troubled kids in middle school and at the high school...walk in the door and volunteer that knowledge to those that can use it. Here, you are beating dead horse and come off sounding like someone who isn't happy unless he is bitching about something. I am sure my comments will bring on the bullying but I don't even care. If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. Getting on here, day after day, bitching about this person and that person only adds negativity to an already overly negative world. I do understand the frustration the community feels but there's new sheriff in town and turn around takes time, particularly when you are dealing with human beings.

I for one, am done here. I KNOW what I do in my classroom everyday, with no parent observers or volunteers around to know too.   I invite each and every one of you that wants to complain nonstop to come on in for a week and then talk about how unsuccessful we are...but it just won't happen because then you just might have another view of things and why would you want that?   Another idea would be to go and try to get some better candidates from Hamilton (who out perform us), Mason, Fairifeld, Lakota, Edgewood, etc. Of course, since our pay is about to go down you can't compete, Also, to put it gently, THEY DON"T WANT TO COME HERE TO THE DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS and why would they? There is a stigma attached to this district that none of you seem to realize exists and no teacher can erase that with scores, that comes from the community. If you want me evaluated on the whole child, then address the part that I can't change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 25 2011 at 12:34pm
sickofthebull (teacher)- I understand your frustration and am glade you had the opportunity to take a well-deserved venting session.


YOU STATE.....

" My hope now is that doctors and nurses start being included in this evaluation system...you know, how many people they cure in a year, how many diseases they find a cure for, every patient who dies, take a cut in pay,etc"- UH, WAIT A MINUTE. YOU AREN'T SERIOUS WHEN COMPARING THE TEACHING OF STUDENTS TO A SITUATION OF LIFE AND DEATH ITSELF IN A MEDICAL ENVIRONMENT, ARE YOU? I WOULD GUESS THERE ARE MANY MORE THINGS OUT OF THEIR CONTROL AS TO THE DOCTORS AND MEDICAL STAFFS AS COMPARED TO THE CONTROL ONE HAS IN A CLASSROOM. THE BEHAVIOR OF THE STUDENTS AND THE DEGREE OF THEIR LEARNING CAPABILITIES ARE NO MATCH FOR THE HEALTH SITUATIONS OF SOME PATIENTS, PARTICULARLY IF THEY ARE TERMINAL AS TO THE SUCCESS OF EACH ENVIRONMENT.

"Same goes for our police officers....fail to prevent a crime, take their money" AGAIN, THE POSSIBILITY OF PREVENTING A CRIME IS MINIMAL SINCE THE POLICE USUALLY DON'T HAVE PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF THE CRIME BEING COMMITTED AND ARE NOT USUALLY GIVEN A "HEADS UP" AS TO WHERE TO BE POSITIONED TO CATCH THE CRIMINAL.


"Or better yet, why don't all us unsuccessful candidates here in Middletown go to an easier place to teach" ALWAYS WILL BE AN OPTION FOR YOU. NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU BUT YOU.

"I not only have to teach the standards, but also teach them how to dress appropriately according to the weather (because no one else is), show them how to eat at a table, buy them coats, Christmas gifts, school supplies and whatever else is needed" YOU DO HAVE TO TEACH TO STANDARDS. THAT IS YOUR JOB. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TEACH THEM HOW TO DRESS, EAT, BUY THEM COATS, GIFTS, SCHOOL SUPPLIES, ETC. THAT IS YOUR CHOICE. YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE OPTIONS OF HAVING YOUR ADMINISTRATORS CALL THE PARENTS AT HOME OR AT WORK, TELL THEM TO COME AND GET THEIR KID AND DRESS THEM, FEED THEM AND BUY THEM THESE GIFTS. YOU ALSO HAVE THE CHOICE OF INVOLVING THE LEGAL SYSTEM TO MAKE THE PARENTS COMPLY THROUGH HAULING THEIR CARASSES TO COURT, LOSING TIME AT WORK (IF THEY WORK). YOU DO THIS VOLUNTARILY AND THEN, IT APPEARS HERE, THAT YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT DOING IT. KINDA TAKES ALL THE FIRE OUT OF YOUR MESSAGE OF COMPASSION/EXTRA EFFORT FOR YOUR STUDENTS, DOESN'T IT?

THEN, YOU FOLLOW UP THIS WITH....

" I teach because I love it, I teach here because I love" WHICH IS IT? IF YOU LOVE IT WHY ARE YOU SO ANGRY ABOUT IT?

" VietVet, your military experience I am assuming you have would serve very well for our troubled kids in middle school and at the high school...walk in the door and volunteer that knowledge to those that can use it" I HAVE MENTIONED THAT THE SCHOOLS NEED THE MILITARY BASIC TRAINING APPROACH TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM STUDENTS WHO SEEM TO GIVE YOU TEACHERS CONSISTENT PROBLEMS. I WAS TOLD BY MS. ANDREW, THAT THE STATE WILL NOT ALLOW CORPORAL PUNISHMENT ANYMORE. IT WAS TAKEN OUT OF THE SCHOOLS BY YOUR VERY OWN EDUCATIONAL COMMUNITY PEOPLE. PEOPLE IN YOUR OWN VOCATION VOTED TO TAKE IT OUT OF YOUR SCHOOLS. WHEN THAT LEFT, YOU LOST CONTROL OF YOUR CLASSROOM AND THE SCHOOLS STARTED LETTING THE PARENTS PUSH THEM AROUND FOR FEAR OF LAWSUITS AGAINST THE SCHOOLS FOR TREATING "LITTLE JOHNNY" SO MEAN. BULLCRAP. WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE DONE, CAN'T BE DONE BECAUSE YOUR EDUCATION PEOPLE COWERED DOWN TO THE PARENTS YEARS AGO. I WOULD BET THAT WE COULD BRING IN SOME EX-MILITARY DI'S AND YOU WOULD HAVE NO DISCIPLINE ISSUES WITHIN A COUPLE OF MONTHS, IF NOT SOONER. "SCARED STRAIGHT". I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT, BUT IF THE SCHOOLS ARE NOT RECEPTIVE, EVERYONE IS WASTING THEIR TIME.


"Here, you are beating dead horse and come off sounding like someone who isn't happy unless he is bitching about something. I am sure my comments will bring on the bullying but I don't even care. If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. Getting on here, day after day, bitching about this person and that person only adds negativity to an already overly negative world. I do understand the frustration the community feels but there's new sheriff in town and turn around takes time, particularly when you are dealing with human beings". NOT TRYING TO BULLY, JUST TRYING TO DISCUSS THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THINGS HERE. I AM NOT PART OF A PROBLEM I DIDN'T HELP CREATE. AS PREVIOUSLY STATED, THE PROBLEM WAS CREATED WHEN YOUR SCHOOL SYSTEM PUT THE PARENTS AND THE KIDS IN CHARGE WHEN YOU GAVE UP CONTROL OF THE CLASSROOM BY ELIMINATING ALL DETERRENTS. THE PARENTS AND THE KIDS DON'T RESPECT YOUR SYSTEM NOW. I HAVE A FEELING IT IS A JOKE TO THEM. TOO KIND/TOO GENTLE. THANK YOUR STATE LEVEL LEGISLATORS AND YOUR SCHOOL BOARDS AND ADMIN. FOR CREATING THE OUT-OF-CONTROL CLASSROOMS OF TODAY.

IT TAKES TIME TO TURN THINGS AROUND YOU SAY? WE PROPERTY OWNING TAXPAYERS HAVE BEEN WAITING SINCE THE 70'S, WHEN THE SYSTEM STARTED GOING HAYWIRE. WE HAVE PASSED MANY LEVIES SINCE THEN, GIVING YOU THE MONEY YOU ASKED FOR. WE HAVE PASSED A BOND LEVY GIVING YOU 45 MILLION DOLLARS TO BUILD NEW ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS WITH ALL THE LATEST GADGETS IN THEM. AND WE STILL WAIT FOR GOOD THINGS TO HAPPEN, FOR THE SCHOOLS TO GAIN IN INDICATORS, FOR THE TEST SCORES TO RISE FROM THE BOTTOM, FOR THE SCHOOLS TO RISE FROM CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT TO AN ACCEPTABLE LEVEL OF AT LEAST AVERAGE. REALISTICALLY, WE DON'T SEE EXCELLENT OR EXCELLENT WITH DISTINCTION EVER HAPPENING.


," Also, to put it gently, THEY DON"T WANT TO COME HERE TO THE DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS" AGAIN, BLAME THE STATE LEGISLATORS, THE SCHOOL BOARD, THE ADMIN. AND DON'T FORGET, THE CITY LEADERS FOR FORCING ALL THOSE SECTION 8/LOW INCOME STEREOTYPICAL KIDS AND PARENTS WHO TRADITIONALLY DON'T VALUE EDUCATION AND GO ONLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. THEY ARE YOUR PROBLEM, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO GET ON HERE AND COMPLAIN AND WANT A BETTER EFFORT FOR THEIR MONEY EXPENDED.

"There is a stigma attached to this district that none of you seem to realize exists and no teacher can erase that with scores, that comes from the community" WE UNDERSTAND THE STIGMA ENTIRELY. DIDN'T USE TO BE A STIGMA ATTACHED TO THIS SCHOOL DISTRICT. IN THE 60'S IT WAS TOP-NOTCH AND WELL RESPECTED. THE DOWNTREND STARTED IN THE 70'S AND HAS GOTTEN PROGRESSIVELY WORSE IN THE LAST 30 YEARS. YOU ASKED FOR SUPPORT FROM THE COMMUNITY. WE GAVE YOU LEVY MONEY, NEW BUILDINGS....WHAT YOU ASKED FOR. IT HASN'T MADE A DIFFERENCE SO FAR. THAT HAS BEEN DURING THE COURSE OF OVER 30 YEARS. YES, WE ARE FRUSTRATED AND MAD AT THE APPARENT LACK OF PROGRESS AND MONEY WASTED SO FAR AS TO VALUE FOR OUR INVESTMENT. BUT, YOU KEEP ASKING FOR MORE MONEY AND NOW TALK OF A NEW HIGH SCHOOL.....AND WE CAN EXPECT WHAT......MORE OF THE SAME? BAD MONETARY INVESTMENT SO FAR.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 25 2011 at 1:50pm
Sick....To answer a rhetorical question: I fully understand how you can "Love it" and "be so angry about it" at the same time. It only makes sense---if you didn't love it, you wouldn't be complaining about the things that you can't change. The driving force for the last 40 years has been the societal changes as a whole: PC and tolerance on all levels have brought down discipline and expectations (e.g., the "student unrest" of the late 60's and early 70's, the relaxation of school dress codes, the disregard for school discipline, the "I'm a victim" mentality in the U.S., the MTV generation---videos that allow anything and everything, and the elimination of personal responsibility of parents and students). As I've stated in another post, school test scores---however given---have been a problem for decades. Remember, it wasn't until after WW II---"The Big One (Herbert T. Gillis)---that students had to go past the 8th grade. Before that, many kids didn't go to 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th grades. Be assured, there are many stakeholders that appreciate your efforts.   CH Moore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ground swat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 25 2011 at 4:54pm

Well put chmoore, and lets not get to out of hand with the numbers. 48,000 folks in town around 850 people signed up on this site (Randy correct me if i'm wrong) and I would say about 1/4 post regularly.  Comparing private sector to public is great but are the "rules" the same, I think not.  I for one am quite impressed that the Admin. cut 5mil. from the budget and didn't whine about all the services the childern wouldn't have anymore. I again won't speak for anyone on this site but if you think this is bitching you diffently don't want my childern in your classroom.  Sorry but some on this site look at the school sytem as a business (service) and we are the shareholders..  Thats how my childern are being raised, money is being spent on you and you will give 110% attention to your teachers and you will have followup with the CEO (there mother). I have posted before that many of the so called adults have flooded our system with unprepared childern and use our schools as daycare centers.  A few comments on this site shouldn't bring down the house, Mrs. Andrews certainly has know problems answering or responding to questions. See what happens Vet when you and Randy get on here and start laying out the "Facts" LOL everyones hair starts to stiffen up on the back of their necks. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 26 2011 at 6:42am
ground swat writes..... "See what happens Vet when you and Randy get on here and start laying out the "Facts" LOL everyones hair starts to stiffen up on the back of their necks."

YES. I UNDERSTAND HOW SOME PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY THE LEVY BACKERS AND THE FOLKS IN THE EDUCATION BUSINESS BRISTLE AND BECOME DEFENSIVE, WHEN THE NUMBERS ARE LAID OUT IN FRONT OF THEM, THE MONEY SPENT TO REACH THE PERFOMANCE LEVEL WE ARE AT IN THIS DISTRICT IS MENTIONED, AND TAKING THE STANCE OF NOT GOING BLINDLY ALONG WITH WHAT THE SCHOOLS ARE SHOVELING AS THEY ATTEMPT TO BS THE PUBLIC WITH THE CLASSIC "WE ARE IMPROVING" MESSAGES.

THE NUMBERS ARE WHAT THEY ARE. CHECK THE NUMBERS FROM 10+ YEARS AGO AND YOU WILL FIND THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME AS TODAY'S NUMBERS.HOW LONG HAVE SOME SCHOOLS BEEN IN AW?HOW LONG HAVE SOME SCHOOLS BEEN IN ACDEMIC EMERGENCY? HOW MUCH LONGER ARE WE GOING TO SEE THE JOURNAL PUBLISH THE RESULTS OF THE SURROUNDING DISTRICTS AND FIND MIDDLETOWN AT THE BOTTOM IN ALL CATEGORIES BY A SIZABLE MARGIN? THESE ARE PUBLISHED FACTS. YET, SOME PEOPLE BECOME ANGRY WHEN YOU BRING THOSE SAME FACTS TO THEIR ATTENTION. ARE WE SUPPOSE TO IGNORE THIS DATA FOR THE SAKE OF RUFFLING SOMEONE'S FEATHERS? OR, ARE WE SUPPOSE TO KEEP THEM AT THE FOREFRONT TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE CONTINUING ISSUES THAT MUST BE CORRECTED AND THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE TAKING 30+ YEARS TO CORRECT. THAT IS MY POINT. WE HAVE NEW PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLETOWN SYSTEM. NEW SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS, A NEW SUPER, NEW TEACHERS, NEW ADMIN. SINCE THE DOWNWARD TREND ALL STARTED IN THE 70'S. HOWEVER, WE HAVE THE SAME MESSAGE COMING WITH EVERY NEW CROP OF PEOPLE THAT OCCUPY POSITIONS WITHIN THIS DISTRICT. THE PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT, BUT THE MESSAGE AND THE END RESULTS ARE THE SAME. WHEN WILL WE ALL SEE SOME REAL, MEANINGFUL UPWARD ACTIVITY? GIVEN THAT, WHAT HAVE THE RESIDENTS OF MIDDLETOWN GOTTEN FROM THEIR SCHOOLS FOR THE MONEY EXPENDED ALL THESE YEARS? THINK ABOUT IT. HAS IT BEEN A GOOD INVESTMENT FOR YOU ALL? WOULD YOU PUT MONEY IN STOCK IF THIS DISTRICT WAS A PRIVATE VENTURE ON THE STOCK MARKET, GIVEN THE PERFORMANCE, THE TURNOVER, THE REPUTATION, AND THE DOWNWARD TREND AS WE TRACK IT'S PROGRESS? JMO


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ground swat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 26 2011 at 5:21pm
Vet- It was not my intent to call you out on your opinions, I found the post about all on this site complaining rather sad and the poster IMO thinned skinned. You keep the posters informed and those that are paid by the TAXPAYERS on notice that a few do want meaningful and fiscal solutions to a very different Middletown of years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 27 2011 at 6:24am
Originally posted by ground swat ground swat wrote:

Vet- It was not my intent to call you out on your opinions, I found the post about all on this site complaining rather sad and the poster IMO thinned skinned. You keep the posters informed and those that are paid by the TAXPAYERS on notice that a few do want meaningful and fiscal solutions to a very different Middletown of years ago.


ground....Thanks...I did not take it as being called out. I am very frustrated about the lack of progress and the degree to which this school district has fallen in status in the last 30+ years. Realizing many things have changed in society since the days when parents actually monitored their kids in school and busted their behinds if they got in trouble at school. The schools busted the kids behind for bad behavior. All gone now and the schools are left with an unruly, out of control environment in which to teach. What would happen, if we took the habitual troublemakers out of the classroom, realizing, by law, we still had to educate the little brats, and isolated them in another school with some hard line ex-military people as instructors and admin? That would help the mainline teachers with distractions, help the kids who wanted to learn, help the resource officers at each school, help the admin. regain control of their school.....might free up some precious classroom instructional time for test preparation. Of course, there is always the cost to consider. Opening up Verity again for this. Paying the new ex-military instructors/admin. etc. ...all costly, but would it produce better results for the mainstream part of the district if we isolated the distractions and helped the teachers in the classroom? Teachers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 27 2011 at 8:59am

Vet - I think that is a great idea.  ClapClapClap

Troublemakers should be isolated - they bring down the whole environment around them and the good kids end up paying the price.  I would be the overall scores would raise.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 10:47am
Vet, a separate school for "troublemakers" has already been tried.  It was Garfield Alternative.  It was not successful, either in educating the "troublemakers", or improving the classroom environment for the rest of the student body. It was closed around 5 years ago.
 
MCSD currently has multiple options. There is the Freshman Academy and Success Academy at the Manchester Building. These programs are not just for "troublemakers" but also kids who do not achieve in the standard classroom.  Basically students at high risk of dropping out.  These academies focus on self-paced computer programs with classroom teachers to provide direct instruction.  There is in-school suspension, where kids who are suspended receive instruction separate from the rest of the school.  The most extreme offenders are expelled or sent to juvenile detention.  We also pay for seats in alternative programs run by the county. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 11:32am
I think it is ashame we have to pay for seats ran by the county.  Why aren't the parents of the kids required to pay?
 
I think more of a boot camp type program is what some of these kids need.  Sending them to a school with other troublemaker is not enough.  That is just what the want.  But strick authority is what they need.  They need to be put in their place and treated as if they were at boot camp.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 12:00pm
Ms. Andrew ...

Your words....

"Vet, a separate school for "troublemakers" has already been tried. It was Garfield Alternative. It was not successful, either in educating the "troublemakers", or improving the classroom environment for the rest of the student body. It was closed around 5 years ago"

Ahh, but a separate MILITARY ENVIRONMENT SCHOOL has not been tried, has it. You will never know until you have tried. Instead, you have estrblished another program just like the one you said was a failure at Garfield. Why?

If Garfield was designed for "troublemakers" then why was it advertised to the public as an "alternative school designed to accomodate those students who could not learn in the standard environment provided?" I explicitly remember hearing this phrase being used when Garfield was being introduced to the community. At the time, nothing in the sales pitch mentioned that this school was created where the "undesirables" were sent as it implies the school district had given up on educating them. That, in turn, would have created a firestorm within the community if that would have been mentioned.

You further state....

"It was not successful, either in educating the "troublemakers", or improving the classroom environment for the rest of the student body"

If it was not successful, why did the district duplicate the program with a new location (the Manchester building) and a new name for the same program (Freshman Academy and Success Academy). It would appear that if the intent was the same between Garfield/Freshman Academy/ and Success, and Garfield was, in your words, "not successful", the re-introduction of the same program would yield the same results.....failure.

"The most extreme offenders are expelled or sent to juvenile detention"

Do you think the most extreme offenders are devastated by being expelled? Do you really think the parents care if their kid was expelled? This is a vacation for them to run the streets during school time. Aren't the schools, by law, still obligated to educate these kids? Wouldn't a military educational experience for these hard-liners be more effective than letting them off the hook with and expulsion? It would keep them in school, and would deny giving them what they want.....being out of school.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sickofthebull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 12:24pm
Just had to ask this question to Ms. Andrews....why not start where the behaviors problems are actually starting, which is at the elementary level? By the time these kids leave 5th grade, we are hearing the next year they are already getting into legal trouble, in the system if you will. There is nothing in place at the K-5 level for those children who habitually disrupt instruction and physically and verbally abuse children and teachers alike. In the past, these types of behaviors were blamed on the teacher or their "culture", what about now? Why not implement something to nip this type of behavior in the bud BEFORE they go on to middle school and maybe these kids ( a good deal of them very, very smart) would stand a chance in life? Isn't that the common denominator here? I am not talking about children who act out because they are bored. I am talking about the hard core behavior issues that will cuss you out and throw a chair at you to handle their anger. These children exist in your elementary schools in Middletown and yet it seems like it's treated like a dirty little secret. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like a military-type situation (no hands on of course) would be just the ticket. After all, the military provides structure and discipline, something that I think we can all agree is lacking with some of the children. Notice I said SOME of the children (before anyone gets their undies in a bunch). Actually, any type of system in place would be refreshing. Suspending doesn't happen much, as it brings our attendance down and gives the kids what they want, we are no longer allowed to take recess from them (and that doesn't work either) and to be honest, these kids know that truly nothing more will happen to them as their teachers can't do anything else, so why not act up? Again, this is but a handful of kids, but if you add them all up from each building then well, it isn't hard to see what happens next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 12:35pm
Welcome to the school house emergence of "crack baby syndrome"
This is real, and will be a handfu as it works through the school/justice systemsl.
I agree that the isolation/transfer MUST occur as soon as the pattern is detected.
Concentrate on those WANTING to learn first and foremost.
Sometimes you simply can't help someone--even at a very young age
Not to stop trying--but different methods must be used imo
You must examine the out-of-class environment to evalauate your possibilities
 
not a licensed educator, however I see it and deal  with it daily.
We can do all that we can--no more
Sometimes you have to move on to a winnable project
 
weed and seed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote middletownscouter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

If Garfield was designed for "troublemakers" then why was it advertised to the public as an "alternative school designed to accomodate those students who could not learn in the standard environment provided?"

Because it sounded more PC than, "an alternative school for keeping the riff raff with no interest in learning away from the rest of the student population?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 1:27pm
Vet, I was not on the Board when Garfield was started, so I do not know how it was advertized to the public.  The Success and Freshman Academies are not a duplication of Garfield. It is true they both have the same goals (remove troublemakers and potential dropouts from main building and turn them around to successfully graduate), but they use different methods. There are many differences, but one important one is that a referral to Success or Freshman Academy is not an involuntary discipline result, the student and parent(s) must agree and make certain commitments to the program. This is a recognition that the child's family has to be involved and supportive for real results.
 
No, we do not think that the extreme offenders are devastated by being expelled. We agree that is probably exactly what they wanted.  That is why we only resort to expulsion after other consequences fail and when the student is a danger to others.
 
Sick of the Bull, I agree that we need to start in elementary school.  Some children come to school without knowing how to behave in a school environment (many more now than 20 or 30 years ago). The teachers union, the school board and the administration have been working together on a committee addressing discipline and safety and school climate/culture.  The committee explored many different approaches and agreed to adopt the Safe and Civil Schools/Positive Behavioral Supports approach, which each building will be implementing starting this fall. (Several buildings --incl. Mayfield and Rosa Parks-- started doing this on their own the last year or two, with promising results).  Basically, it involves setting firm, consistent rules and procedures and actively teaching children how to behave, with firm and clear consequences.  That should be the parents' job, not the teachers and other school staff, but it is just a reallity that many kids are not taught this outside of school.  All the adults in the building need to be consistent with their expectations.
 
My own personal opinion is that yelling and screaming at, barking orders at, and/or hitting children, is not the best way to discipline children. And actually, it teaches them a sad lesson about power and authority giving people the right to yell, scream at and physically abuse other people. But kids do need clear, firm rules and boundaries, with clear and firm consequences if they do not follow the rules.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sickofthebull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 1:42pm
Ms. Andrews thank you for your response. I sincerely hope that we can begin to see a serious turnaround in the behavior department in a way that helps the kids. I am aware of the Positive Behavioral Supports approach that is coming this year and have high hopes that it will help turn things around. Another hope I have is that, in the event that this does not work, there is a plan B. Middletown needs what other districts already have and that is ZERO tolerance for violence in the classroom...no excuses...same goes for chronic disruptions....they need to be put back in the hands of their parents if they can't get it right, no matter how said parents threaten lawsuits. I think that is why we have the behavior issues we didn't have the 20 or 30 years ago you mentioned. It simply wasn't tolerated in school, period.
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