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The Blame Game -- vote!

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Neil Barille View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jan 16 2011 at 8:15pm
Let's play the blame game.  Regarding the condition of our city -- to what extent it is due to "people" (poor decisions) vs. "fate" (inevitable decline)?
 
I want to get honest votes on the percentage of blame that should go to the decisions of people -- past and present council, city admin, area property owners, "stakeholders", and other citizenry.  Keep in mind these decisions go back decades. 
 
The "fate" argument would say that what has occurred has been an inevitable decline that includes factors such as an aging urban town, national decline of manufacturing, urban poverty, trend of corporate HQs moving to posh suburban areas, etc.  In other words, factors that no one person or council probably could have done much about.
 
My vote:  80% fate, 20% people
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2011 at 8:30pm
My vote:  75% people;  25% fate
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Smartman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2011 at 8:34pm
I say 50-50!! It is an even balance.
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Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2011 at 9:05pm
70% fate; 30% people.   I think most of the stuff that Middletown has gone through is similar to many tales of woe from Hamilton, Springfield, Mansfield, Toledo, Newark, on and on.  It doesn't make the poor decisions of certain city leaders anymore defensible, but those decisions wouldn't do that much to stem the tide of decline. 
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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2011 at 9:05pm
I would say 70% people 30% fate.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2011 at 9:21pm
An interesting poll Neil. I say 80% people 20% fate. Gotta explain why, IMO.....

In the 50's and 60's, Middletown was a booming industrial town with Armco, Sorg, Wrenn, Black-Clawson, Aeronca, Raymond Bag, and others, all going strong. Money was a flowin', people had decent jobs to maintain a nice lifestyle, houses and cars were being purchased, the town was kept up and there was pride in being a resident.

In the 70's it started to change and in the 80's it all went in the toilet with places closing, Armco entering into a partnership with the Japanese due to being cash strapped/technology strapped becoming AK and going from 9000 employees to 3300 or so. We all saw it changing in the 70's.(city leaders did nothing about it) We all saw them folding one by one.(city leaders did nothing about it) We just had no way of knowing it would end up with the desolation we have now. (In the 80's, I wrote a letter to council and gave it to then commissioner Bill Donham,about not placing all the city's trust in AK and diversifying the town's employment choices- it was ignored as usual) This mess was preventable if the leaders cared and had some incite toward predicting the future.

The problem.....city council/city leaders didn't react at all in the 70's to the first sign of a failing city. This lack of attention to devise a plan to replace/re-invent/re-niche/re-tool the town, which should have happened 30+ years ago, was ignored to include today's cluster we are experiencing. IMO, it is the city leaders lack of recognition of impending economic doom from as far back as the 70's, with help from their friends in the following 80's 90's to the current crop of misfits, who don't have a clue on the important things to concentrate on. No one, in any town leadership capacity, knows how to recognize what this town truely needs. We have no person who is dynamic enough to convince the others what is really needed and to change direction from the nonsense they are doing now.    
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2011 at 10:00pm

Just read this excerpt from page 63 of 124 of the this week’s workbook (paragraph four):

“Is it possible to attract the Creative Class and also be a factory town?”

Or read this excerpt from the 12/16/2010 Master Plan Steering Committee meeting minutes:

Chapter 6 of the 2005 Master Plan dealing with Quality of Life issues. The meeting open with a discussion of factors that make a community a great place to live. Items mentioned in random order were:

• Clean and well maintained

• Community service groups

• Farmers market

• Sense of community

• Town square/center

• Sense of culture - uniqueness

• Individual uniqueness

• Quaint feeling

• Small town feel (20,000 pop.)

• Activities and events

• Downtown anchor

• Downtown center for government and civic services

• Downtown retail

• Feeling of being safe

• Positive newspaper

These pinheads (and I use that term in the most affectionate way possible) have intentionally been driving us down the road we are travelling!!  They think that a quaint, cozy, "olde tyme", artsy, "Yellow Springs-ish" Middletown is whats best for us all!!!
 
Now that's the "MASTER PLAN"!!!  Is that "people" or "fate"???
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Hermes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2011 at 1:27am
poor decisions 80%     inevitable decline 20%
 
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2011 at 4:29am

Of course it’s decisions!!!

Just read the minutes of the last Master Plan Steering Committee meeting!!!

It clearly states that “we need a dog park”!!! But City Hall hasn’t provided us with one. No wonder our city is in the shape it is in. Confused  Until we get a dog park things will NEVER get better.  Yet city hall plans on wasting a couple of grand this year on road paving while our doggies go without a park!!!  Things will never improve!!! Disapprove

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2011 at 7:09am
Mercy! That pesky doggie park thing just won't go away will it? I say walk the dogs in the Highlands and the South Main St. areas as one soaks up the ambiance and history of yesteryear. Besides, one might run into the mayor or Mr. Kohler down on South Main and Jeff Michel on Superior in the Highlands. You know, strike up a conversation with the likable fellas and such. If one does, for goodness sakes, if you value your life, take along the pooper scooper and the glove. Leave some doggie poo on their lawns and all he--will break loose. Landen and company will have multiple ordinances drawn up (double secret emergency legislation, skipping the first reading and going right to law, don't cha know) so fast, it'll make you dizzy trying to follow it.

Why not make the doggie park the trails in the newly established park named after Mr. Armbruster? It's 5 acres, would be cool in the summer. Of course people in the south and west sides of town wouldn't want to drive that far to walk their dogs, so multiple doggie parks would be in order here. Hey, how about the old Roosevelt school site with the track. Centrally located. (No pun intended)

City Hall knows best, Mike. Are you questioning their decision-making again?
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2011 at 7:50am
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

.City Hall knows best, Mike. Are you questioning their decision-making again?
Well, Vet, apparently that gang of geniuses at City Hall feels that the "Creative Class" of new residents they so desperately crave to save our city will be too stupid to figure out a way to exercise their mutts without being provided a specific location dedicated to that activity. (Perhaps with instructions on the fence???) Confused
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Richard Saunders View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2011 at 8:15am

Any truth to the rumor that Marty’s next Master Plan Steering Committee meeting will be held on February 2, Groundhog Day?

What a coincidence that would be.

One involves a scavenging rodent scurrying around in the dark trying to influence the future, and the other involves a groundhog!

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409 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2011 at 8:16am
There is a large newly vacant lot across the street from Jeff Michel's house.
Seems it used to house the old Middletown Regional Hospital.
This might be unacceptable as crap runs downhill.
But then again, plenty of room to exercise their super pooches.
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Richard Saunders View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2011 at 8:23am
Sorry, 409, but that lot is a historic site.  The pooches would first have to apply for a 'certificate of appropriateness' and be approved by the Council on Landmarks.  I think that you are barking up the wrong tree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2011 at 8:28am
wow 409--was thinking the same thing simultaneously
even better--let Atrium fund the project and perform the maintenence!
Or at the new east end Armbruster Park
Jeff Michel could be in charge of poop removal as part of his KMB responsibilities.
 
I wouldn't get too excited about the Master Plan Committee list yet....
There was no quorum present, so no voting or decision-making could take place.
I missed that meeting--only one that I have missed.
Mr.K is rightfully seeking input from everyone not present.
Being there throughout, I think that Marty has done an excellent job with this committee, and has been very open to everyone. Not that the same OLD faces won't come in to try to force the same OLD FAILED issues once again.
 
January meeting has been cancelled due to Admin "re-adjustments", particularly in ED/Planning where a recent high-level vacancy has popped up. Plenty of time now to voice concerns.
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Richard Saunders View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2011 at 8:53am

The hour must be sufficiently late for the bureaucrats to be surfing the internet. We see that, as is their habit, they have summoned Mr. S. John to their defense.

As usual, tho’, Mr. Presta has supplied exact quotes and also provided links for the people to read the cited material, in context, for themselves. Also as usual, Mr. John has rebutted with nothing but wishy backed up by washy.

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409 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2011 at 9:13am
Originally posted by Richard Saunders Richard Saunders wrote:

Sorry, 409, but that lot is a historic site.  The pooches would first have to apply for a 'certificate of appropriateness' and be approved by the Council on Landmarks.  I think that you are barking up the wrong tree.
Richard...very true...however, if I hike my leg at the right tree, I might be able to get Marty & Les to mysteriously find a way around all that "dog crap."
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2011 at 9:40am
relax Mr.Saunders--plenty of time to voice concerns and finalize recommendations.
Most committee members might not agree with your view of my being "wishy washy".
Though I am out-numbered at the meetings--just read the full list of membership..
Couldn't you at least trash me through more creative poetry or prose?
 
Bottom line Mike and Rick--this committee will prove meaningless if our recommendations don't meet Council/Admin approval. Marty has been very good in his operation of the meetings, and has welcomed any alternative thinking. Sorry if that isn't what you want to hear or believe, however it is the truth. There will be key absences of the OLD line thinking at the next up-coming meetings. Plenty of time to turn this around somewhat.
 
Have patience Mr.Saunders--at least I made it into the room.
The meetings are open--have you attended any?
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