Middletown Ohio


Find us on
 Google+ and Facebook


 

Home | Yearly News Archive | Advertisers | Blog | Contact Us
Sunday, June 26, 2022
FORUM CITY SCHOOLS COMMUNITY
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Bond Issue
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Bond Issue

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
Author
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bond Issue
    Posted: Jan 24 2014 at 6:27am
Not ALL school districts nor states handle the aging of the schools in the same manner......

Saw a segment on the evening news the other day concerning the condition of a 100 year old school in New Jersey. The presenters interviewed some teachers and administrators of this school as they were showing the viewer the poor conditions that the students were required to endure. Each time the boys bathroom was used, water would drip through the ceiling into another classroom below. Everytime it would rain, or the snow would start to melt on the roof, the water cascaded down the stairwell and the students named the stairwell the "waterfall" as they traveled up and down the stairs to classes. There were buckets in each classroom to accomodate the leaks. There were dead rats in the walls that produced a foul odor. The records room had an odor due to the mold. Holes in walls. There was abundant mold in the discolored walls. The school appeared to have many more issues than Vail. There were uncovered electrical switches and the school would certainly meet the "let's build all new schools" crowd criteria for tearing it down.....


BUT WAIT.....

The story also featured Gov. Christy and his newly appointed staff member, who was apparently charged with solving this problem, who stated that they will hire contractors to fix the mold, fix the electrics, fix the leaks.....whatever it took to bring the school up to the proper condition for learning.

Just wonder why Gov. Christy's administration would salvage this 100 year old school, in much worse shape than Middletown's Vail school, and the local contingent of "if it's over 40 years old, we gotta tear it down because a new school means better results" people have such different views of what creates success. Someone is wrong. Is all of this "build it new because it will enhance our image, performance and property values" theme really the issue here?.....or is it that the school people just want to come to work with the latest and greatest in school features and have a nice fresh work environment to enjoy while breaking the taxpayer's back. Used is not good enough for some perhaps? Everythng gotta be new to some?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
ktf1179 View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Mar 19 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 518
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 2:41pm
I would like to point out that Springboro High School's Pipes burst during the last deep freeze and that school in only under 20 years old. So the age of the school has nothing to do with it.
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 1:35pm
Comments

If you would like to post a comment please Sign in or Register

< ="cmCommentEdit" id="comment_edit_">< name="cid" ="" value=""> < name="text"> < ="cmCommentCancelBtn" ="" value="Cancel"> < ="cmCommentSubmitBtn" ="submit" value="Edit comment">
8 Comment(s)
Comment(s) 1-8 of 8
angrydogs avatar

Will say and do anything for more more money. How pathetic the little piggies are!

DaleV003s avatar

Here we go again... You know, why don't we all run our households like the schools! Let's say your house was built in the 50's or before... Maybe the foundation has some cracks and the siding looks bad. Maybe the plaster is falling down because of the leak in the roof you forgot to fix... Well, don't bother fixing it up! Just tear it down and rebuild. Especially if your relative (the State) is giving you a nice big check to help pay for it... Does this sound reasonable? Of course not. I don't tear down my house just because it needs repairs. I fix it up and keep up on it. I don't have the same furnace it had when it was new. Take care of the buildings you got and they will last as long as you want them to. But if you fail to maintain them, then you can use that as an excuse to build new ones. That's what this sounds like to me. Regular maintenance prevents a lot of issues to buildings. But, I guess if you want 2 or 3 new buildings, you just set the heat a little low when we have sub-zero temperatures... "Yeah, that'll make them voters wish they wouldn't have voted down the levy!"

UncleAndy2s avatar

Nice pro-levy propaganda piece, J-N. You stay classy.

The question the J-N didn't ask is, why have these schools turned into money pits? How can many private and public entities, businesses, charities, museums, schools, and even residences that are much older than the schools in question, be operated by their wners without turning into money pits like these Fairfield School District locations?

How can Miami and UC operate buildings that are over 100 years old, and not allow them to turn into money pits?

The ugly plain truth is that Fairfield City Schools are an incompetent bunch of racketeers who have either purposefully allowed the buildings to go to pot, or through incompetence have not been able to properly care for the buildings. In either case, more taxes are not justified. We will not reward graft or incompetence with more of our money.

GoofyJims avatar

What a joke, It is funny there are other schools that are older and had no problems what so ever. This is just a ploy to get a new building built. Please tell me why this should be done when they obviously did not do the maintenance on these buildings and why should we expect any different with new schools.

benonis avatar

Why can buildings in Europe still be in use after 300+ years? They were built to last. Buildings in question were only built to last 50-60 years. Why?? Property values keep dropping and taxes keep raising. There isn't a building in the MCSD built to last except the old MHS and they want to tear it down. NO YES from me.

RogerOs avatar

Get out and vote NO people the union and their people will be there you can count on that.

Hold_On_A_Secs avatar

Trust me - a levy will pass due to the apathy of the voters. The voter's that complain the loudest NEVER vote or they feel like what's the point. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

1425s avatar

Isn't it funny that all of the sudden ( after a new levy was announced) the Fairfield Schools have fallen in such bad shape. What a crock of bull. People need to get off their butts and vote. Remember this folks. You paid to build a new High School then had to pay again to maintain it.

8 Comment(s)
Comment(s) 1-8 of 8
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 1:08pm
processor, I concur with the 'non argument' position.
It simply takes visibility away from a credible argument.
 
Akin to arguing roads should be repaved every year or so, than patched. If one lives in a cold region, brutally cold weather causes additional stress. Roads have to be filled after a winter. 
 
The Journal is not doing either district a favor from such articles.   
 
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
processor View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: May 07 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote processor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 12:34pm
Acclaro,
I think that we've come to different conclusions regarding the need for a re-habbed high school and a new middle school, but I totally agree that just because pipes break when the weather gets cold and that it's hard to regulate the heat in some buildings when it's extremely cold, is not a valid reason to go forward with the project. The Journal is insulting our intelligence with this non-argument and, I think, not helping with the valid arguments for going through with the project.
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 11:53am
The Journal is a complete joke. The only information they print is public info; court records, crime, all data they can pull from public records, no investigative analysis.
Just last week, they had an article about the state of art capabilities Miami U at Oxford had where they use applications to monitor pipes, et al, to mitigate damage.
 
The point being Journal fans and school building supporters: When it is -10 below 0, pipes break, and its a stressor on ANY system, regardless.
Quit wasting our time on meaningless nonsense. We get it....it was cold, pipes burst, the furnace runs to keep a room 65 degrees. It doesn't take a PhD from MIT to 'get that.'
I suggest we all move to a warmer climate.   
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 11:06am
WELL ALRIGHT!!! ANOTHER ATTEMPT TO SOFTEN YOUR HEART AND STEAL YOUR WALLET.....JOURNAL STORY-

School district’s older buildings become money pits

BUTLER COUNTY —
The recent cold snap that swept through Butler County tested the older school buildings in Middletown and Fairfield, some of which failed with frozen pipes and busted boilers, requiring costly repairs.

School officials say the fact that those buildings buckled under the stress of record-low temperatures is just one more example of why they need to be replaced.

Both Fairfield and Middletown tried and failed to pass bond issues in November to build new schools, and both are trying the ballot again in May. Officials in both districts argue that it would be cheaper and wiser for voters to approve these tax measures — a collective $120 million — than to continue to spend their tax dollars trying to patch up buildings nearly 100 years old.

“Systems designed to last 50 to 60 years are now being expanded out to the 90-year mark. They are well past their life expectancy, thus making them very hard to maintain,” said George Long, business manager for Middletown City Schools.

The recent cold weather brought with it a host of maintenance problems for Fairfield and Middletown schools.

Pipes burst at Middletown High School, Fairfield High School and at Fairfield’s Options Academy, which forced that venue to close for a day last week, school officials said. Tom Weiser, the director of business operations for Fairfield City Schools, said insurance deductibles are $5,000 per incident, and the district’s premiums have already risen $32,000 this school year, due to a high number of claims.

“I didn’t have a single problem at any of my new buildings or at the renovated elementary buildings,” Long said of the recent weather. “At the high school, though, we experienced nine pipe freezes.

“We put temporary heat in four of the classrooms at the high school because the ventilators that came with the building are now so rusted that we can’t simply go in and make easy repairs,” he said. “We have to either rebuild the custom parts within those units, because we can’t get parts for them anymore, or we have to replace the whole unit.”

Middletown schools is asking voters to pass a $55 million bond issue to build a new middle school and renovate the high school. It would cost the owner of a $100,000 home $147 a year in additional taxes. Meanwhile, Fairfield schools is seeking approval of a $65 million bond issue that would build three new school and cost the owner of a $100,000 an extra $91 a year in property taxes.

Middletown officials say it would cost less to build a new middle school than to make repeated repairs to Vail, which was built in 1923. For example, Long said putting a new roof on Vail — an expense not yet planned — would cost $900,000. And while frozen pipes aren’t as big of a concern at Vail, the steam heat the building uses creates another set of problems.

“We can’t regulate the heat,” Long said. “It’s like your grandmother’s old house with radiators in it; you were either roasting or it was cold.”

Meanwhile, Fairfield officials say they would have to spend $5 million a year in maintenance costs just to keep its oldest buildings — Central Elementary, built in 1929, and the Freshman School — in usable condition.

A recent sign of Central Elementary’s building wear reared its head when the boiler broke down in December while students were still in school.

“That eight-inch header (that goes into both boilers) had actually rusted through. We had to have a contractor come in and cut out roughly a five-foot header and then weld in a new section of that header,” said Weiser. “That’s something that has just occurred over years and years of aging — the corrosion that takes place with steel.”

The other major problem at Central has been the steam lines in the walls and under the floors. Those corrode to the point where they leak steam, Weiser said.

“Once you have live steam escaping those pipes, it creates issues. We’ve had it dissolve plaster because of all the moisture. It can lead to mold,” he said.

While Central is not quite as old as Vail, Fairfield has another aging building: the Fairfield Freshman School right next to Central on Dixie Highway. The 63-year-old building has its own share of problems, Weiser said, such as deteriorating brick and mortar on the exterior.

“If we don’t pass the bond passed, we will have to spend $5 million just to get (Central and Freshman) in a very usable state,” Weiser said. “When we get done spending that $5 million, it doesn’t look any different. It’s going to be the same buildings. That’s not even replacing the boilers.”

If Fairfield and Middletown don’t pass their latest bond issues, they will lose state funding to help pay for the cost of the new building construction, officials have said. For Middletown, the state is contributing $40 million; for Fairfield, that total is $19 million.

Opponents of Fairfield and Middletown’s bond issues did not return calls seeking comment Monday. (WONDER IF THEY EVEN ASKED ANYONE WHO IS OPPOSED?)

I DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE 6 COMMENTS AT THE END OF THE ARTICLE. KINDA SAYS IT ALL. I DO KNOW THAT DUKE, YALE, HARVARD AND PRINCETON UNIVERSITES, ALONG WITH THE NAVAL ACADEMY AND WEST POINT, ARE ALL CONSIDERING TEARING DOWN THEIR BUILDINGS BECAUSE THEY ARE OLDER THAN 50 OR 60 YEARS OLD. LOOKS LIKE THE MIDD./FAIRFIELD SCHOOLS FAILED TO DEVELOP A PLAN ON A PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE PROGRAM ALL THIS TIME, RELYING ON THE TAXPAYER TO REPLACE THEIR BUILDINGS ONCE THEY START COSTING MONEY TO MAINTAIN. GUESS THEY THINK WE HAVE A CONSTANT MONEY OVERLOAD AND CAN PAY ON DEMAND. IN MIDDLETOWN, IT'S ONLY AN INCREASE OF $147 BUCKS FOR A $100,000 HOME ON THE OLD PROPERTY TAXES. I KNOW THAT WON"T BE A PROBLEM FOR THOSE HOMEOWNERS ON A LIMITED INCOME, EATING BAR K HOTDOGS AND LIVING IN AN IMPOVERISHED TOWN......OR WILL IT?    .....BUT THEN, WE ALL KNOW THE NEW SCHOOL ADVOCATES DON'T CARE ABOUT SUCH THINGS, DO THEY.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 22 2013 at 12:43pm
Ms. Andrew:

"However, since you brought it up -- your $400/day number is wrong. $400 x 185 days would be $74,000, and the only teachers who make that much are a small handful who have a Ph.D (doctorate) degree and 25 years or more experience teaching. The starting salary for teachers in Middletown is somewhere around $34,000 (which is at the low end of the going rate in other school districts in the region). The top pay for teachers with a Masters but not a Ph.D and 25 years experience is about $65,000"

Ok, let's say 65 thou for 185 days of work....

That's $351. per day, wages your average Joe would kill for and never see in their lifetime. Provides a very nice living. Most outside the academic world work more days per year than 185. Year around actually. No three month break. How many of those 185 days are taken as sick, vacation or personal days? How many holidays/off the job conferences are included in that 185 day count? Gotta take that off the total which elevates the pay per day on the job amount as each day not on the job ups the salaried money pot.

Regardless of how this all breaks out, the fact is, when all people outside the academic world are working during the summer months, the teachers, admin and other school personnel are enjoying those summer trips, working in the yard or getting that sun tan while the world works away. That counts too, Ms. Andrew. I know, I have two teachers within a few houses in my neighborhood and I have seen their summer itinerary.

Oh, and the starting salary for teachers in the Midd. school system is $34 thou. which, as you state, is "at the lower end of the other school districts in the region".........but, Ms. Andrew.....no one is holding a gun to their head to accept that job at that salary. Plenty of other states with numerous school districts, that may offer better opportunities to start. If they accept the job, they shouldn't complain about the pay. It's not like Middletown is the only game in town.

And the pay increase out of the old paycheck for benefit premiums? The private sector has been doing this for years and is a common practice with most companies. Your education people are not enduring anything any other worker is not encountering today.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jan 09 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 22 2013 at 10:56am
Miss Kitty, the bond issue on the ballot is to raise money to build and maintain school buildings.  That money cannot be used for teacher salaries, which come out of the general fund.  So, the issue you are asked to vote on this November has nothing to do with teacher salaries.
 
However, since you brought it up -- your $400/day number is wrong.  $400 x 185 days would be $74,000, and the only teachers who make that much are a small handful who have a Ph.D (doctorate) degree and 25 years or more experience teaching.  The starting salary for teachers in Middletown is somewhere around $34,000 (which is at the low end of the going rate in other school districts in the region).  The top pay for teachers with a Masters but not a Ph.D and 25 years experience is about $65,000.  Also, while the students are in school 185 days, teachers report to work several days before school starts and stay several days later, so about 190 days.  $34,000 divided by 190 is $179, less than half of what you claim.
 
Itsamee, principals and Central Office administrators make more than teachers for a number of reasons.  Principals work several more weeks each year than teachers, have advanced degrees and licensing from the state, and are responsible for supervising all of the teachers in the building.  Central Office administrators work year-round, have advanced degrees and licensing, and are responsible for functions and departments district-wide.  It is pretty fundamental that managers make more than front-line employees, whether it is manufacturing, sales, retail, etc. 
 
ALL employees in the Middletown Schools (including administrators) took two 1% pay reductions in the past 3 years, and at the same time their contribution to health insurance premiums doubled from 10% to 20%.  Lots of school districts in the state negotiated pay freezes, but I am not aware of any others where the unions agreed to actual pay cuts.  This was necessary for MIddletown to get its budget in line with reduced revenue, and it shows how dedicated our teachers and support staff are.
Back to Top
Historic House Guy View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jul 28 2013
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 272
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Historic House Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 21 2013 at 4:23pm
So lets see, don't spend the money so kids can take their books home and study or do homework, but instead, build a new school... Yeah, that should work! Stern Smile

Idiots, glad we got our kids out of that school.
Back to Top
wannaknow View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: Feb 21 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 138
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannaknow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 21 2013 at 8:27am
What does a building have to do with learning anything? If the teachers are dedicated and the students wanted to learn they could all sit in an open field. We have all these beautiful schools in Middletown and bad reports on most of them. It's what's In the building, not the building.
Back to Top
itsamee View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: May 03 2013
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 154
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsamee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 21 2013 at 8:18am
Kitty, 

While there are some older teachers that are there making a decent amount, most of the newer teachers are not even coming close.  I think the year 0 step is $28,000. Couple that with the fact they used to have to take a pay cut after year one, plus see a rise in benefits cost, it is not worth much to start your career at MCSD.

Making that 185 day / year argument is so off.  First, there are many student vacation days that teachers do not get. When students are released early, teacher are required to stay. Over the summer, some teachers have to mandatory professional development. Teachers work after hours grading papers and tests (imagine being an English teacher hand needing to grade 100 ten page reports....). Etc.  
In turn, most teachers have to buy their own "extras." I know a couple years ago, teachers had to purchase spare number 2 pencils in case kids did not bring them for stat tests. The cost was not reimbursed. I know, big deal, less than $10, right?  But these costs happen over and over again.

My opinion is, teachers should start out around $40,000 or slightly more. MCSD has many qualified teachers who get shafted on a repeated basis (sometimes by other teachers, sadly). 

That being said, the ones over them need pay cuts.  My thought is NO ONE but the super should be making six figures.  Everyone else needs to be knocked down and take the same hit teachers do. When they can get the administration costs down, I will be more likely to vote yes on levies.  But come on, a first time tech director making $106,000? HR guys making over $100k? Seriously?  

When I was employed for various districts, I have been asked to "take one for the good of society" and get paid less. Maybe they should as well....  
Itsa me, mario!
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 20 2013 at 6:30pm
TonyB says

"It really boils down to what kind of city you want to live in. If you want better schools, not only will they need to be paid for, you'll need better oversight of how that money is being spent"

THE NEW SCHOOLS HAVE ALREADY BEEN PAID FOR TONYB. 45 MILLION WORTH OF APPROVED BOND LEVY MONEY. HAVE THE SCHOOLS "GOTTEN BETTER" BECAUSE WE SPENT THE MONEY AS YOU SUGGEST? DON'T THINK SO. COMPARE THE ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE PRE BOND/OLDER SCHOOLS AND POST BOND APPROVAL/NEW ELEMENTARIES. THE PERFORMANCE, AFTER A FEW YEARS TO IMPROVE, HAS BEEN ABOUT THE SAME. WHAT DID WE GET FOR OUR MONEY AND WHY DID THE SCHOOL PEOPLE WANT THESE NEW SCHOOLS IF IT DIDN'T YIELD ANY BETTER RESULTS?

ANSWER:THEY WANTED TO WORK IN A NICER ENVIRONMENT WITH ALL THE BELLS AND WHISTLES THAT HAVE PROVEN NOT TO MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE END.

BASED ON THE RESULTS OF THE LAST BOND LEVY, THE VOTERS WOULD BE FOOLS TO APPROVE ANOTHER TO BUILD THE MIDDLE SCHOOL. THE DISTRICT HASN'T MADE GOOD ON THE FIRST LEVY YET. IT ISN'T LOGICAL TO KEEP GIVING THESE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THEY DON'T PRODUCE BETTER RESULTS. WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THAT?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
TonyB View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jan 12 2011
Location: Middletown, OH
Status: Offline
Points: 631
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 20 2013 at 10:52am
Miss Kitty,

You are wrong! I'll try to give you an answer to what I think you're wrong about but after reading the posts here, I doubt you'll agree; but here goes:

1. You say that teachers are making $400 a day for the days they work? Sounds good but let's look at it from another perspective. If you were to hire a babysitter or employ child day care, what would be the cost per day? Let's be conservative and say $20 per day. With 30 students per class, that would figure $600 a day. Seems like a bargain now, doesn't it.

2. Teachers are overpaid? I thought children are our future. I can't see how you'd want someone who isn't qualified to teach to be the instructors for our future. Do you have any idea how much time and money was spent by said teacher to become a teacher? Do you even care or is this a case of  class and economic envy? Do you have any experience in the classroom?

3. The whole idea that spending needs to stop is a ridiculous notion. I'll use the city's funding of street repair as a prime example. They stopped spending money on it and look at the condition of the streets. Now if you're arguing for more oversight on spending; that we could agree upon.

It really boils down to what kind of city you want to live in. If you want better schools, not only will they need to be paid for, you'll need better oversight of how that money is being spent. I'm not endorsing or opposing the levy because I can see both sides of the issue here, but bashing the teachers who are educating our future doesn't seem to make sense to me. You obviously have your reasons; I just don't see the reasoning behind your posts.
Back to Top
Miss Kitty View Drop Down
MUSA Immigrant
MUSA Immigrant
Avatar

Joined: Oct 29 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 61
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Miss Kitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2013 at 10:16pm
I believe our school year is around 185 school days. When you calculate the majority of Middletown city school teachers wages, most of them are making well over $400 for each day they work. Are you kidding me! Let the teachers build a new middle school, hell, they can afford it.... Some teachers are making more. Spending needs to stop! Imo- please correct me if i am wrong....
Back to Top
Miss Kitty View Drop Down
MUSA Immigrant
MUSA Immigrant
Avatar

Joined: Oct 29 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 61
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Miss Kitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2013 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

So-- what happens to the old hs, now a middle school, when it is closed?
Can the system afford to tear it down?
Will it be looted of any valuable woodwork or fixtures like the other schools were?
Will the property be sold?
Will the taxpayers get good bang for their buck through salvage/sales?



I'm sure the Stained Glass business owners would LOVE to have all the wood-work and other great valuable items in the old high school. I bet they'll even take it off the schools hands for FREE!!!!!
Hopefully tax payers will vote the school bond down.
Back to Top
itsamee View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: May 03 2013
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 154
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsamee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 9:50am
I think they wanted it to sound cheaper more than anything.  You get it in your head that its less than $10 / month so you go and vote yes for it.  I did the math on my current home (which I thought was wrong at first, but have since seen I am correct) and I am looking at around $15 / month as an increase. 

Now, if we had not already bailed out the stupid senior center (about $8 a month) and helped the libraries (about $2 a month) along with being (apparently) the only property in Middletown that INCREASED in value (adding about $9 / month in tax rev) I would be all for this, but the nickel and dime increases need to end. Over the last 4 years, my house bill has gone up almost $50 a month!  Add this school levy and it will be $65 / month.  

Middletown, you have to stop voting yes on all this stupid stuff.  I usually support schools and such, but right now it is not a good time.  Especially with all the financial waste that is prevalent in MCSD.

I now step off my soapbox. 
Itsa me, mario!
Back to Top
Richard Saunders View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jun 30 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 232
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 9:12am
It is interesting to note that the last time, they were comparing the cost of the levy for a $100,000 house.
 
This time, it is being compared to the cost for a $75,000 house.
 
Sad commentary towards the property values in ye olde Middle-towne.
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 17 2013 at 6:48am
And so here we go again, with the same message, just coming from a different super this time......Journal story....

Ison: ‘Now is the time’ to pass levy

MIDDLETOWN —
Sam Ison, superintendent of the Middletown City School District, said “now is the time” for residents on Nov. 5 to approve Issue 9, a $55 million bond issue that would provide the funds to build a middle school and renovate the high school.

He said for the district to be eligible for a $40 million grant from the Ohio Facilities Commission, voters must pass the levy within the next 13 months. Otherwise, he said, another district that passes its levy would be eligible for the money.

As Ison said: “The clock is ticking.”

The entire project is expected to cost about $95 million, Ison said. He said the 3.95-mill bond issue and a 0.26-mill permanent improvement levy would allow the district to build the middle school on the high school grounds on South Breiel Boulevard and make additions and renovations to the 44-year-old high school.

SO THE MESSAGE HERE FROM ISON IS THAT THE DEPENDENCY FOR PASSING A LEVY IS ALL CENTERED ON A TIMELINE TO ALLOW THE STATE TO PAY FOR A PORTION. NO MENTION HERE ABOUT A PLAN AFTER THE NEW SCHOOLS ARE BUILT TO IMPROVE THE DISTRICT PERFORMANCE. BASICALLY AND FOREMOST, "PASS THE LEVY BECAUSE WE WILL LOSE THE MONEY IF YOU DON'T AND WE WON'T GET WHAT WE WANT". IT WOULDN'T BE "PASS THE LEVY TO HELP US IMPROVE" BECAUSE ISON KNOWS THAT THE LAST TIME THEY ASKED THE VOTERS TO BUILD 'EM NEW SCHOOLS, IT DIDN'T YIELD ANY FAVORABLE RESULTS IN THE ELEMENTARIES.

He said the technology needs to be improved at the high school so the students can “get up to par.”

SO, JUST LIKE THE THEME THAT PRICE SOLD THE VOTERS ON WITH HIS "NEW SCHOOLS WILL IMPROVE PERFORMANCE BECAUSE IT WILL PROVIDE THE LATEST IN TECHNOLOGY" THEME, ISON IS TAKING THE SAME ROUTE WITH HIS "TECHNOLOGY NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED SO THAT STUDENTS CAN "GET UP TO PAR" (WHATEVER THAT MEANS) THEME. SOUNDS LIKE A BROKEN RECORD FROM BOTH SUPERS. YOU ALL HAVE SEEN WHAT THE NEW ELEMENTARIES HAVE PRODUCED FOR 45 MILLION. ARE YOU STILL WILLING TO GIVE THE SCHOOL PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT A SECOND TIME?......SERIOUSLY? IF SO, WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND TO SEE THAT THIS "BUILD EVERYTHING NEW AND ALL WILL IMPROVE" SCENARIO HAS NOT MADE A DIFFERENCE TO DATE? DO YOU FEEL YOU HAVE GOTTEN ANYTHING FOR YOUR MONEY AS YET?

ISON: "Safety issues also are a concern at the high school, he said. He said the improvements would benefit the district, but also the Middletown community"

AHH, ANOTHER ANGLE TO SELL THE LEVY....SAFETY. AND JUST HOW WOULD THE IMPROVEMENTS BENEFIT THE COMMUNITY MR. ISON? NEW SCHOOLS WILL STILL NOT TRUMP THE REPUTATION AS A POOR PERFORMER. THE NEWEST CAR ON THE BLOCK, WITH ALL THE BELLS AND WHISTLES IS WORTHLESS IF THE CAR WON'T RUN. THE TABLE HAS ALREADY BEEN SET ON THIS DISTRICT AS TO SURROUNDING COMMUNITY PERCEPTION ABOUT YOUR SCHOOLS. THEY ARE NOT CONSIDERED BY POTENTIAL RESIDENTS BECAUSE OF THE DISCIPLINE ISSUES AND THE PERFORMANCE. HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH CONTENT, NOT SURFACE FLUFF.

“It’s all of us together,” said Ison, who added a passed levy would be “advantageous” to the community

SEE ABOVE

Ison, in his first year as superintendent, said Middletown could be one of the few districts in the country with seventh graders through seniors on the same campus with a college, Miami University Middletown, across the street

AND, THE POINT IS? WHAT IS THAT SUPPOSE TO DO TO HELP ACCOMPLISH IMPROVEMENT?

The levy would cost the owner of a $75,000 home about $9.21 per month. Ferrell said that equates to about 30 cents a day, which is “very minimal.”

YEP, ABOUT A CUP AND A HALF OF STARBUCKS A MONTH. A QUARTER OF A TANK OF GAS A MONTH OR 9 DOUBLE CHEESEBURGERS FROM MCD'S ON THE DOLLAR MENU.....NOT MUCH AT ALL, BREAK IT DOWN ANY WAY YOU LIKE......BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT. THE POINT IS WHAT ARE WE GETTING FOR OUR MONEY BY APPROVING ALL THESE BOND, EMERGENCY, TEMPORARY, PERMANENT AND OPERATING LEVIES ALL THE TIME IF THE PERFORMANCE NEVER CHANGES NOR IMPROVES? HOW MANY CHANCES DO THE LEVY SATURATION PEOPLE GET? DO THE LEVY SUPPORTERS ENJOY POURING MONEY DOWN THE BLACK HOLE OF MEDIOCRITY? DO YOU ALL KEEP REWARDING THE SCHOOL PEOPLE AND NEVER SEE ANY UPWARD PROGRESS/NO ACOUNTABILTY? DO YOU ALL DO THAT WITH YOUR STOCK PORTFOLIOS OR DO YOU NOT PUT ONE MORE PENNY INTO A STOCK AND UNLOAD IT TO CUT YOUR LOSSES?

THERE ARE URBAN SCHOOL DISTRICTS ACROSS THIS COUNTY THAT ARE PRODUCING BETTER RESULTS IN BUILDINGS THAT ARE JUST AS OLD AS VAIL. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BUILDINGS. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH CONTENT, CURRICULUM, TEACHING METHODS, HOLDING ADMIN., TEACHERS AND STUDENTS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR LITTLE PIECE OF THE PIE. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH CLASS STRUCTURE THROUGH DISCIPLINE AND THE ENDING OF KINDER/GENTLER BEING REPLACED BY TOUGHER EXPECTATIONS OF BEHAVIOR. JUST STOP BEING SO DAM NICE TO THE TROUBLEMAKERS AND CLAMP DOWN ON THEM.

UNTIL THE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT AND DEMAND CHANGE, THIS, AND OTHER URBAN DISTRICTS WILL NOT PROSPER. SCHOOL PEOPLE. AGAIN DEMONSTRATING THEY ARE IN THEIR OWN LITTLE WORLD, TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS TO THE MAINSTREAM THINKING AND TO IDENTIFYING AND ADDRESSING THE REAL ISSUES. JMO

I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
Miss Kitty View Drop Down
MUSA Immigrant
MUSA Immigrant
Avatar

Joined: Oct 29 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 61
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Miss Kitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2013 at 5:01pm
TEACHERS ARE OVER PAID!
We don't need new schools.
We need to take care of the ones we have.
VOTE NO FOR THE LEVEY!!!!!!
Back to Top
Observer View Drop Down
MUSA Immigrant
MUSA Immigrant


Joined: Dec 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Observer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2013 at 2:37pm
If their donation was a required condition of their employment that creates a serious issue, but i don't think that's what is happening here.  I don't know much more than what was posted here but i don't see how this is all that different than if a teacher wrote a check to the campaign committee out of his/her personal checking account.  The teacher salary would still have been paid with public funds. I would think telling teachers they can't voluntarily support a levy campaign would be a free speech violation.  
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2013 at 12:42pm
Journal....

Payroll deductions for school levy campaigns questioned

School districts that deduct money from employee paychecks to help fund levy campaigns are not breaking the law by doing so, according to the chief legal counsel for the Ohio School Board Association.

But a state anti-tax group claims the practice is an illegal use of resources and personnel of publicly funded schools. Officials with the Cincinnati-based Coalition Opposed to Additional Spending and Taxes (COAST) say they are exploring whether to take legal action to stop school districts from engaging in the activity

Hollie Reedy, OSBA’s chief legal counsel, said Ohio Revised Code Section 3599.031 allows school districts to make certain types of voluntary payroll deductions for employees to support a ballot issue. She said this is different from ORC Section 3315.07, which prohibits districts from using public funds to support or oppose the passage of a school levy or bond issue or to pay an employee for time spent on any activity to influence the outcome of a levy or bond issue

OK, TEACHERS ARE PAID USING TAXPAYER DOLLARS RIGHT? THE TEACHER TURNS RIGHT AROUND AND DONATES SOME OF THEIR SALARY (TAXPAYER MONEY) TO SUPPORT SCHOOL AND BOND LEVIES. THE MONEY FROM TAXPAYERS IS "FILTERED" THROUGH THE TEACHER IN SALARY, BUT WHEN DONATED, ENDS UP BEING THE SAME AS DIRECT TAXPAYER MONEY GOING TO SUPPORT SCHOOL LEVIES, WHICH IS A DIRECT VIOLATION OF ORC SECTION 3315.07 LISTED ABOVE. LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE TWO SECTIONS HERE THAT ARE IN CONFLICT WITH EACH OTHER DEPENDING ON HOW ONE WISHES TO INTERPRET THEM. IT IS NOT CORRECT TO USE PUBLIC MONEY TO SUPPORT SCHOOL LEVIES AS IT INFRINGES ON THE RIGHTS OF THOSE WHO OPPOSE THOSE LEVIES, HELPING ONLY THOSE WHO SUPPORT THE SCHOOLS. FAIRNESS?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 26 2013 at 9:23am
Journal story concerning the renovations going on at Barnitz Stadium...

Home > NewsSponsored By:Posted: 2:10 p.m. Wednesday, Sept. 25, 2013


Final design stage begins for Barnitz Stadium renovations

Katrina Fugate, head coach for girls soccer, said the varsity and junior varsity teams played their first games on the synthetic turf this past weekend. She said the players were apprehensive to the change at first, but were pleased with the quality of the field.

“It’s the new hot thing and they can’t wait to be on the field as much as possible,” Fugate said, adding all games will be played at Barnitz in the 2014-15 season

QUESTION.... IF THE GIRL'S SOCCER TEAM WILL START PLAY EXCLUSIVELY AT BARNITZ IN 2014-2015, AND THE BOYS TEAM WILL PROBABLY FOLLOW, WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE CURRENT SOCCER FIELD IN FRONT OF THE CURRENT HIGH SCHOOL IF THE BOND LEVY DOESN'T PASS AND THE CHANGES AND RECONFIGURATION OF THE ATHLETIC FIELDS ARE NO LONGER AN OPTION? TURN IT INTO MORE PARKING OR KEEP IT AS A PRACTICE FIELD EVEN THOUGH THE GRASS IS DIFFERENT THAN THE BARNITZ TURF?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
processor View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: May 07 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote processor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 24 2013 at 2:01pm
kft179,
I don't disagree with anything that you said regarding property values, but it would not generate the money the schools need for the new/re-habbed buildings.  The original bond levy is for a fixed dollar amount.  If property values go up then the millage drops so that the total dollars to the school district to pay the bonds stays the same.  Most of the operating levy's are the same way.  They are for fixed dollar amount not for a particular millage. 
 
Plus legally the operating money and bond money can not be comingled.
 
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 24 2013 at 11:40am
Originally posted by ktf1179 ktf1179 wrote:

You know they could fund the new schools without adding taxes, if they force the city to work on raising property values in the city and enforcing the ordinances bystrictly going after all the people who violate them. There are too many people who live in Middletown that either don't have the money, or just don't give a crap about making there houses and properties look good anymore. Instead you have junk cars parked on the streets, gutters hanging down, dead trees in there front yards, and in some cases they have appliances, and ATV's parked on there front yards. These are the people who are dragging down propery values and thus reducing the amount of money to the City and the Schools.


I agree ktf....didn't use to be this way three or four decades ago. People actually had jobs, wanted to work, had a little disposable income for upkeep and took pride in their homes and neighborhoods. Guess the only solution is to call Gilleland and her crew and encourage them to add more low income and Section 8 candidates. Let's go for the complete destruction of the city. Let's get that voucher number off the charts! Meanwhile.... does seem like since Gilleland's people started accepting any and all to Section 8/low incomeland, and when we first learned that we have an abundance of heroin in town, the town started looking a little ghetto..ish didn't it? (with the exception of the Highlands, the S. Main St. area and other selected areas of town, primarily in the north/northeast). Alot of things dragging down the property values here with the condition of the city, the school performance, the way the town is run and it's reputation primary players in the equation.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.
Copyright ©2022 MiddletownUSA.com    Privacy Statement  |   Terms of Use  |   Site by Xponex Media  |   Advertising Information