Middletown Ohio


Find us on
 Google+ and Facebook


 

Home | Yearly News Archive | Advertisers | Blog | Contact Us
Saturday, November 27, 2021
FORUM CITY SCHOOLS COMMUNITY
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Goodbye Target in Middletown
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Goodbye Target in Middletown

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
Author
 Rating: Topic Rating: 1 Votes, Average 5.00  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Iron Man View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: Sep 25 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 112
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iron Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Goodbye Target in Middletown
    Posted: May 18 2014 at 2:48pm
I moved to Middletown because they had a Target store, and the art center of course.
Back to Top
over the hill View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Oct 19 2012
Location: middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 952
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2014 at 7:28pm
I wish Gilleland hadn't close all of our swimming pools in Middletown. The long hot summer is just beginning and you all remember when we were young we all went to the swimming pool to check out the girls and guys maybe make a little time if we could but it was good clean fun. What does our youth to day in Middletown have as the days get longer, hang on street corners and get into trouble. It's very sad we don't have more things for our youth to keep them off street corners. We have to take care of our youth, give them a choice to not hang on the streets. Just my opinion
Back to Top
Vivian Moon View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council


Joined: May 16 2008
Location: Middletown, Ohi
Status: Offline
Points: 4187
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2014 at 4:42pm
Welcome TCLAUD

Yes, I moved back to Middletown because it was in the middle of my work area when I was in construction.


Back to Top
tcaud View Drop Down
Outsider
Outsider


Joined: May 17 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tcaud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2014 at 4:23pm
The demise of Middletown target comes as little surprise. In fact I'm surprised it carried on as long as it did. Their prices were higher than Walmart's and Big Lots' in an low income area. That's a sure recipe for failure. K-mart had the same problem. Neither Walmart Middletown nor Meijer nor Big Lots gets a ton of business. Most people living in Middletown, apparently, get their groceries and other items someplace else, with only the poor bothering with any of them.

It's good that Towne Mall is being revived but it's difficult to see how they expect to compete given their current strategy. Prem Outlets in Monroe has largely captured the market for premium goods in this area. It's become convention that young people will go to Cincinnati to have a good time... services in Middletown cater only to the older population and the poor. Of course there's the issue that most young people this day and age are relatively poor, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

It just seems to me that Target's closure was a simple reality of business. Ever since the AK strike this area has been having a rough time. In many ways its current growth is unjustified... it has neither the population nor the relative appeal to make use of the money put into it for expansion 15 years ago. Middletown and Franklin are the slums of Butler Co.... West Chester, conversely, is the pot of wealth and gold, and Hamilton is the middle. That's the shape of it.

If you want Middletown to grow, the first thing to do is give people something to do. Cater to young people. Encourage people to settle in Middletown and go to work farther north and south. Live the life of a suburb and don't even worry about "attracting" business... that's not particularly feasible given the logistics. Middletown is a stop between Dayton and Cincinnati, and that is the end of it. Give its working class population something to do, and you'll notice it gradually creep back up to middle class status. But right now its youth have next to nothing.
Back to Top
over the hill View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Oct 19 2012
Location: middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 952
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2014 at 5:36pm
Doesn't work for me either. Would love to see those old pictures
Back to Top
swohio75 View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jun 13 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 820
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2014 at 11:47am
It's because its a link to your AOL inbox..
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2746
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2014 at 7:42am
loaded for me, Mike
I dunno why it won't work 4 u

A pic of our store(formerly Reddy's) on Verity
from the late 60s
Ironically we did very well, as did Liberal's just down the same street

a different and much more active "downtown" back then
Back to Top
Mike_Presta View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: Apr 20 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3483
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 13 2014 at 2:29am
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

there once was a very successful grocery market in the downtown area, but it was forced to vacate

http://mail.aol.com/38380-111/aol-6/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=28611447&folder=NewMail&partId=3
Spider:
This link doesn't work...at least not for me.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2014 at 10:57pm
http://youtu.be/Hd3oqvnDKQk

Disposable income.


'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2746
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2014 at 9:53pm
there once was a very successful grocery market in the downtown area, but it was forced to vacate

http://mail.aol.com/38380-111/aol-6/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=28611447&folder=NewMail&partId=3
Back to Top
buckeye43719 View Drop Down
MUSA Immigrant
MUSA Immigrant


Joined: Jan 15 2014
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buckeye43719 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2014 at 5:19pm
The Towne Mall is a joke in my opinion.  No stores and no customers to boot.. I was in the so called mall about 2 weeks ago. It was at noon time on a Wednesday.  I saw empty storefronts and the employees I saw had absolutely nothing to do.
Jesus is the only way to Heaven
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2014 at 11:40am
Spider:

"Target was amazingly empty. Talked with employees who mentioned lack of sales + theft. So---those public faces trying to organize and keep this location open had better put their $$ where their mouths have been going, or the end is obviously coming. sos that is crushing all small businesses and retail in the city. Obviously Target has their eye set on a marketplace location @ Austin, or in the Monroe mall/new prosed mall area. They definitely don't need to expand here imo"

THIS SITUATION DOESN'T SURPRISE ME. WHEN CITY LEADERS MAKE A DECISION TO BRING IN UNDESIRABLES WITH ALL THE RAMIFICATIONS ONE COULD ATTACH TO THAT, COUPLED WITH THE THEFT AS A RESULT OF HEROIN BUYING IN A TOWN THAT IS SATURATED WITH WEAK MINDED USERS, WHO HAVE A CHOICE TO USE OR NOT TO USE BY THE WAY, THE AFTERMATH IS PREDICTABLE. CRIME UP-THEFT THROUGH THE ROOF, GHETTO-BUILDING THEME, DRUG INFESTED, SPENDING DOWN, LIMITED INCOME FOR MOST, CITY PRIORITIES ALL WRONG, BUSINESSES LEAVING-NONE REPLACING THEM, LEADERS DON'T CARE.....KINDA TELLS THE STORY. RESPECTABLE TRUMPS GHETTO EVERYTIME. JUST HAVE TO CONVINCE CITY LEADERS TO EMBRACE THAT CONCEPT. HOW DO WE DO THAT?

UNLIKE COUNCIL AND THE CITY LEADERS, WE ALL KNOW REPUTABLE BUSINESSES WILL NOT STAY WHEN THERE IS AN OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF MIDDLETOWN RESIDENTS WHO HAVE NO DISPOSABLE INCOME, ARE ON DRUGS AND EXPERIENCE THEFT IN EXTREME PROPORTIONS. I CAN'T BELIEVE WAL-MART, WITH ALL THE THEFT REPORTED ON A DAILY BASIS, STILL HAS NO ONE POSTED AT THE ENTRANCES TO AT LEAST GET THE LICENSE PLATE NUMBERS OF THESE THIEVES AS THEY LOAD THE OLD BIG SCREEN INTO THE TRUCK AND DRIVE AWAY. GOTTA GET DRUG MONEY YA KNOW.

IT IS, AND HAS BEEN A CLUSTER FOR DECADES. INCREDIBLE THINKING BY CITY LEADERS THROUGH THE YEARS. SADLY, INCOMPETENCY REIGNS SUPREME IN MIDDLETOWN.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
ktf1179 View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Mar 19 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 518
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2014 at 11:28am
I hate to say this but  Middletown is getting what it deserves for allowing the cancer that is section 8 to move in to this town, and squandering all of is tax dollars on useless pet projects, instead of increase policing. And now that business and families are leaving Middletown at a record pace, soon all that will be left is Section 8 housing, heroin users, and an city council wondering where all the income tax money has disappeared too.
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2746
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2014 at 10:30am
had occasion this weekend to visit the towne mall and target a couple of times during "peak" afternoon business hours. the mall was empty other than senior "walkers". Mall should charge these people for their usage imo.

Target was amazingly empty. Talked with employees who mentioned lack of sales + theft. So---those public faces trying to organize and keep this location open had better put their $$ where their mouths have been going, or the end is obviously coming. sos that is crushing all small businesses and retail in the city. Obviously Target has their eye set on a marketplace location @ Austin, or in the Monroe mall/new prosed mall area. They definitely don't need to expand here imo.

sad to see--I remember when all of the above + many more now gone were thriving.

Still waiting on that train outta here.....
Back to Top
ktf1179 View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Mar 19 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 518
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2014 at 10:25am
I do wish them luck in trying to keep Target in Middletown, but I don't see them winning this battle, and getting anywhere with a City Council that is only obsessed with Downtown. I would not be surprised if every retail place in Middletown eventually closes up due to the type of people we attract now too this town. We will be the next Trotwood  within the next ten years if the people of Middletown don't stop stealing from these Realtors, and if people keep driving to other places to shop, besides Middletown.

So I am sorry Spider it is hard to be positive about Middletown when everything is going wrong.  And if more Major stores close up shop,  we will more than likely be leaving this town as well. One of the main reason we moved here was the close proximity to major stores, but if they all close up, then it will not be worth the expense in Gas to live in this town if we have to drive to that Dayton or Tri-County Mall areas to do any major shopping.

But I do still hold on to hope things will turn around, but it is slipping.
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2746
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 02 2014 at 4:57pm
hey--I hope that they stay
Sarah is a very nice lady(wife of former Council member Tom Allen)

acclaro was correct in that there is too much similar retail in town cannibalizing a thinly-sliced consumer pie. The drug stores use staples(milk,bread, paper products) to draw people in on a regular basis, since pharmaceuticals aren't enough. Dollar store have national contracts with national brands. Fuel centers has petrol as their draw.
They all pass on the tough areas, like freshly-cut meats, deli, produce and expansive dairy/frozen. Has made the neighborhood markets obsolete unfortunately(for me!).

Kroger, WalMart and Meijer dominate with Marsh and probably Meijer the next to go. I somewhat like Meijer best---Kroger is high--would rather shop DLM if I have to pay top $$,+ DLM has more of my preferred specialty items.

What Target, Wal Mart etc. don't want to mention is the off-the-chart high level of pilfering shrink that goes on in the east end(all over town ftm). A major factor in possibly leaving the local locations. Wal Mart theft is off the chart.

jmo with a few facts.....
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 02 2014 at 3:44pm
Sarah, spend your time on getting the roads and infrastructure repaired.
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
ktf1179 View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Mar 19 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 518
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 02 2014 at 2:13pm
And I say good luck with that LOL
Back to Top
ktf1179 View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Mar 19 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 518
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 02 2014 at 2:12pm
From the "Save Middletown Target" group on Facebook.

This week's project is all about the City of Middletown! We need to MAKE SURE they know that we want Target to stay open and that we want them to help us make that happen! Here are allof the contact names and numbers/emails:
Denise Hamet
Economic Development Director
deniseha@cityofmiddletown.org
513.425.7847
Matt Eisenbraun
Economic Development
Program Manager
matte@cityofmiddletown.org
513.705.1608
Larry Mulligan Jr. Mayor, At-large
larrym@cityofmiddletown.org
(513) 425-7719
Dan Picard, Vice-Mayor,Ward 4
dpicard@cityofmiddletown.org
(513) 425-7719
Dora Bronston
dbronston@cityofmiddletown.org
(513) 425-7719
Joe Mulligan, At-large
jmulligan@cityofmiddletown.org
(513) 425-7719
Anita Scott Jones, At-large
asjones@cityofmiddletown.org
(513) 425-7719
Amy Schenck, Clerk of Council
aschenk@cityofmiddletown.org
(513) 425-7719
Judy Gilliland, City Manager
dept_citymanager@cityofmiddletown.org
(513) 425-7836

We are also going to try to get on the agenda for a council meeting and will ask everyone to please come show their support when we get confirmation on a date!!
Back to Top
Trotwood View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jul 22 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trotwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2014 at 11:22am
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

Trotwood:
Here's A good question for you and your liberal chums:

You are in favor of a HUGE metro AIRPORT, with HUNDREDS of multi-engine jumbo jets taking off, landing, and sitting and idling every day burning DIRTY jet-A fuel...

Yet you are opposed to a power plant sitting in one little corner of the same area using a SINGLE TURBINE burning clean, natural gas because you say that it pollutes!!!

(Even though it will REPLACE a DIRTY COAL-fired power plant!!!)

Excellent point. The airport would, in a sense, devalue the community just as much as AK/Suncoke currently do. 

However, I think my point above related more to the fact that Middletown should not be afraid of AK leaving and should squeeze as much tax revenue as it can get out of it so the money can be used to better clean up the community. And the airport would be one alternative use, as would be a massive logistics/advanced manufacturing park similar to what is in SW West Chester/Fairfield (that idea would have to bank on the continued rise of e-commerce and more economic prosperity in future years), etc. 

But if you look at housing values near either major airport in the region, they are fairly high. The same is true in Columbus too. So that leads me to think there is not much of a negative correlation between housing prices and airport distance, although my intuition tells me differently. So good call.


I will be back in a little bit to post some speculation from another Towne Mall thread that is currently active on City-Data.com. 
Back to Top
Mike_Presta View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: Apr 20 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3483
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2014 at 7:20am
Trotwood:
Here's A good question for you and your liberal chums:

You are in favor of a HUGE metro AIRPORT, with HUNDREDS of multi-engine jumbo jets taking off, landing, and sitting and idling every day burning DIRTY jet-A fuel...

Yet you are opposed to a power plant sitting in one little corner of the same area using a SINGLE TURBINE burning clean, natural gas because you say that it pollutes!!!

(Even though it will REPLACE a DIRTY COAL-fired power plant!!!)
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
Back to Top
Mike_Presta View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: Apr 20 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3483
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 19 2014 at 10:56pm
Trotwood:

By the way: GM Moraine was in Moraine, not Kettering. And Delphi's operations were taken over by Tenneco, similar to what I say will happen if you "kill" AK, so that supports my premise, not yours!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
Back to Top
Mike_Presta View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: Apr 20 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3483
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 19 2014 at 10:39pm
Trotwood:

Since you're talking in circles, I guess this conversation is over.

You say you want to "kill" AK. If AK is "dead" (bankrupt), they have no money to remediate anything, then--according to your own logic--the Chinese come in, buy the bankrupt facility, operate it as an open shop paying lower wages, all the negative aspects you decry in a steel mill remain, the City of Middletown receives less in payroll and property taxes, and everyone is worse off.

If AK is making enough profit to be able to afford to do all the remediation that YOU want, there is no reason for them to walk away from their core business and their flagship plant in the first place.

You can't have it both ways.

Perhaps you are taking trips without going to Colorado???
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
Back to Top
Trotwood View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jul 22 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trotwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 19 2014 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

 First, why in the world would I try to "verify" your identity??? If you feel the need to hide behind an alias or have an "alibi", that is your business...not mine. I stated my views on the subject. Please reread my remarks...I meant exactly what I said.

Next, yes...Precision Strip buys steel coils from AK, further processes them (such as slitting to customer specifications) and then ships them out to their customers. Their location right across the street from a quality supplier made sense for them to open a branch here. If AK closed (and no one else took over the plant, which is likely) they would likely relocate their processing equipment to a location near another steel mill. Kokosing bought McGraw's construction operations, which included many ongoing maintenance contracts with AK, which they have maintained and tried to nurture. Previously, they were a heavy and highway contractor and operated mostly out of their main office. Again, if AK closed, they would likely hang around long enough to see if someone else took over operations of the mill. If no one did, they would likely close this branch.

Your comparisons of Middletown to Dayton and Pittsburgh, etc. are apples to oranges, and not worthy of comment. Plus, I lived and worked in Pittsburgh during much of the renaissance you mention, and I assure you that steel mills played a role in it.

Rather than do any more point-by-point rebuttal, let me just say that YOU make the best argument against your own premise!!! YOU point out the great location of the AK plant site and YOU say that Chinese industry is coming. What you don't seem to realize is that AK Middletown works has a World-class hot strip mill and cold mill (both of which are, or at least recently were, WORLD RECORD performers) and other excellent facilities. If somehow AK were "killed", Chinese steelmakers would snatch up the entire plant in a New York minute and run it as an open shop, paying lower wages. The result would be that all the things you seem to abhor would remain, but the economy would suffer due to the lower payroll. (And this is based on YOUR logic, not mine!!!)

My advice to you??? Take a few days off for a vacation in Colorado. The two new interstate interchanges, the airport, and all of the other things you see will be much easier to envision from there!!!

Have a nice trip!!!


I'd like to make a trip to Colorado, never been there. But I'm a college student and don't have the money to make it out there.... any chance you are willing to foot the bill?

In the meantime, let's talk about the above comments. The identity comments were tied to a response from another post. And comparing Middletown to Dayton or Pittsburgh may be comparing apples and oranges, so how about we just compare Middletown to two nearby communities which are comparable in size - Kettering and Hamilton.

Both are older communities (with lots of pre-WWII housing stock), one has a downtown core like Middletown, and both grew by industrial means. Hamilton with the paper mills, Fisher Body, etc. and Kettering with GM Moraine, Delphi, a DESC base, and others (notice all of the industries I just mentioned are gone). And look at where they both are now - their schools are not in academic emergency (Kettering's are actually on par with Lakota), there is lots of re-investment occurring in city limits, and people have a positive outlook about the future of both of these places. AK leaving, if it does, will not be the end of the world., and in fact may help move Middletown forward. That's all I am trying to say....


And you do have a point, if AK leaves the Chinese may just come in and buy the mill to make steel. They do have a never ending appetite for the stuff, given their growth and the fact that they have not been building the majority of their industrial buildings to have much of a lifespan beyond 10 years. But even if THAT happens, it would make for an arguably better climate in Middletown because a re-assessment of the site would still have to be done and likely AK would still be responsible for cleaning up their ground toxins before ownership could be transferred. 

Considering that, ownership transfer of an individual plant is improbable. Likely the Chinese would just buy a whole steel company, and if they are going to go to all of the trouble to buy one, they are going to want one with a better balance sheet. If they bought the whole company, then nothing would happen - you would still have AK. Only difference would be that it would have a new owner (like what happened when Kawasaki bought a bunch of it and became AK instead of the American Rolling Mill Company). 

And you would still have the same problem. The rest of the world has moved forward, and Middletown can too if they get out of the 1950's and ditch AK.
Back to Top
Mike_Presta View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: Apr 20 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3483
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 19 2014 at 7:28am
Originally posted by Trotwood Trotwood wrote:


I was born and raised very close to Middletown city limits. Since then I moved away but am now back in the area for college, so if you really want you could count me as one of those "collegians looking for a luagh" (or if we were in Hamilton, a "young professional" would work just fine). Can you verify my identity - I doubt it, but that's my alibi. 

First off, I thought Precision Strip and Kokosing were not that tied to Middletown? I purposefully left SunCoke off the list because they would close their site if AK Middletown Works closed. But yes, if they are that closely tied, that would be more jobs lost if AK left. 

My rebuttal - look at Dayton. 10,000 jobs lost in 2008 just from Delphi alone. That doesn't even include the fact that GM Moraine left, losing another 2,000 jobs, NCR left with 1,500 jobs, and I'm sure there were a ton of suppliers that had to close, downsize, etc. after those losses. But the area is coming back. Fuyao is bringing 800 jobs to GM Moraine, all of the former Delphi sites have been re-purposed, UD bought the NCR HQ and is using the space to create high-paying research jobs, GE is rapidly expanding in the area because Dayton has a large, skilled, and employable workforce, and so on. Looking in hindsight, Delphi, GM, and NCR pulling out of Dayton was probably one of the best things that could have happened, because it gave everyone in the area a kick in the pants to realize complacency wasn't the answer. Pittsburgh is now booming, but had to face those realities in the 1980's when it was really "the Pitts". New York realized this in the 19780's with the crime epidemic, along with Portland and Seattle in the same era when they were decidedly uncool, smelly, dirty fishing ports. 

Middletown hasn't been kicked in the a$$ yet, and it needs it. That's probably a lot of the reason why you all are mad at current city leaders - they are complacent. AK is the holy grail that "cannot be disturbed" and "must be kept happy", in their minds. I assume their attitude is everything else can go to sh!t and they don't care. They probably think capitalizing on some sprawl (like the cheap Wind tunnel Appalachian carny proposal being discussed on another thread) would be nice, but even then I doubt they care. Highly doubt they care as long as AK Steel is in town.

Want to make them get off their a$$ and do something? Press for cleaning up YOUR (not my) community. Press for higher taxes and more restrictions on AK. And then make them put that extra tax revenue into repaving roads, fixing sidewalks, better maintaining parks, recruiting new industry, and diversifying the economy. 

The AK site, despite what you all seem to think, is an excellent location - unsurpassed highway and rail access, right in a 9-hr radius of 60% of the US and Canadian population. The potential for logistics and distribution, advanced manufacturing (not third world steel manufacturing like AK), office space, etc. is immense. And Chinese industry is coming, if that isn't already evident from Fuyao. Capitalize on it! 


As far as the airport is concerned, that is just ONE potential use for the site based on past speculation which has been occurring since roughly the 1960's. Nothing new. And creating jobs in a freshly hard-hit Middletown would probably be political support enough to move the airport there. If Dayton had received FAA Drone Test Site approval, the proposal would have been even easier to push because DAY could have easily been repurposed into a massive drone testing site. And OH politicians would be on-board with getting CVG tax revenue back in OH. That I can guarantee.

First, why in the world would I try to "verify" your identity??? If you feel the need to hide behind an alias or have an "alibi", that is your business...not mine. I stated my views on the subject. Please reread my remarks...I meant exactly what I said.

Next, yes...Precision Strip buys steel coils from AK, further processes them (such as slitting to customer specifications) and then ships them out to their customers. Their location right across the street from a quality supplier made sense for them to open a branch here. If AK closed (and no one else took over the plant, which is likely) they would likely relocate their processing equipment to a location near another steel mill. Kokosing bought McGraw's construction operations, which included many ongoing maintenance contracts with AK, which they have maintained and tried to nurture. Previously, they were a heavy and highway contractor and operated mostly out of their main office. Again, if AK closed, they would likely hang around long enough to see if someone else took over operations of the mill. If no one did, they would likely close this branch.

Your comparisons of Middletown to Dayton and Pittsburgh, etc. are apples to oranges, and not worthy of comment. Plus, I lived and worked in Pittsburgh during much of the renaissance you mention, and I assure you that steel mills played a role in it.

Rather than do any more point-by-point rebuttal, let me just say that YOU make the best argument against your own premise!!! YOU point out the great location of the AK plant site and YOU say that Chinese industry is coming. What you don't seem to realize is that AK Middletown works has a World-class hot strip mill and cold mill (both of which are, or at least recently were, WORLD RECORD performers) and other excellent facilities. If somehow AK were "killed", Chinese steelmakers would snatch up the entire plant in a New York minute and run it as an open shop, paying lower wages. The result would be that all the things you seem to abhor would remain, but the economy would suffer due to the lower payroll. (And this is based on YOUR logic, not mine!!!)

My advice to you??? Take a few days off for a vacation in Colorado. The two new interstate interchanges, the airport, and all of the other things you see will be much easier to envision from there!!!

Have a nice trip!!!

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.140 seconds.
Copyright ©2021 MiddletownUSA.com    Privacy Statement  |   Terms of Use  |   Site by Xponex Media  |   Advertising Information