Middletown Ohio


Find us on
 Google+ and Facebook


 

Home | Yearly News Archive | Advertisers | Blog | Contact Us
Wednesday, November 30, 2022
FORUM CITY SCHOOLS COMMUNITY
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - $2 BILLION DOLLAR ENTERTAINMENT VENUE
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

$2 BILLION DOLLAR ENTERTAINMENT VENUE

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
buddhalite View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 11 2017
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: $2 BILLION DOLLAR ENTERTAINMENT VENUE
    Posted: Oct 25 2021 at 10:36pm
I, for one, am quite impressed with our Mayor after watching the Thursday meeting.

She let the circus go - and just when everyone thought they were done - she used my famous technique and pulled out all the stops and let 'er rip.

I spent some time re-watching her presentation at the end, and Vitori's attempt to stop it, and realized that this whole thing is a massive scheme to defraud the taxpayers of Middletown, yet again.

We may need lawsuits to stop this in the end - and perhaps why this election may be the most crucial in our history.
"Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises
Back to Top
middiemom View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: May 21 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote middiemom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 24 2021 at 10:38pm
Same page, Spider. It’s a bait and switch. This moment is too big for this council as currently constituted. Why did a council member want the Mayor’s presentation permitted? Why does one council member look completely clueless? Joe’s parents are against this. Why the abstention? Why lie about saying you filed with the ethics commission when you hadn’t and haven’t? Why the emergency? Why are we paying over $800,000 dollars for anything when they are getting the land for nothing? Why are they not paying? They say give me two mill upfront and we have council scrambling to rush this through? This town is not safe. Stop pretending it is bc you have a dude on a bike riding around. The police are short staffed. The fire and ema are short staffed. This “deal”stinks to high heaven. This council has returned this site to the glory days of Williams, Schiavone and Marconi. Follow the money, people. Bad deal!
Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!!
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2749
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 24 2021 at 11:36am
I watched the Thursday edition of the Council----thought that the budget portion was informative, interesting and well-handled by everyone(jmo). Citizen comments were pretty much a replay of two weeks prior, with exception of a few interesting familiar local personalities.

Then came closing Council comments----our Mayor's prepared presentation was very powerful (imo). She made a very a very strong case that Admin is seriously lacking necessary info and commitments for a project of this scope(imo). The Mayor's detail was impressive, and the roundabout between FBT's Mr.Yoder and Ms.Condrey over procedure was well-handled(imo--professionals).  Our Law Director was a spectator, and the other four Council members' silence spoke very loudly(imo).

Abstentions? No real reasoning from any of them, and a somewhat lack of urgency considering the press for "emergency" status(though we have seen this before from decades of prior Councils and Commissions).

Spider and Mom on the same page?
Back to Top
accuro View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: May 31 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 103
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote accuro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 24 2021 at 5:19am
There were two movies, one a remake, of Hollywoodland, about the death of the actor who played Superman, shot at 45. The movie, 1959, then 2006, was a fictional pi that was hired to determine if alleged suicide was. Urder. Besides potential copyright infringement in name, speculatively, what is the metaphor? Superman was dissatisfied because he never could land parts as he was stereotyped into the role. True story. All the worlds a Stage, are the actors in the city part of the production. Odd.
An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out. - Will Rogers
Back to Top
middiemom View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: May 21 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote middiemom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2021 at 9:10am
This council… I thought the Williams, Schiavone, Marconi era was tragic. But oh my god! That Thursday night meeting was amateur hour. Is this the best we can do? Council members not inquiring with the ethics committee until they were caught. One that STILL hasn’t consulted but promises to? This deal sounds like a bait and switch to me. Why does a council member or two appear to be so furious that questions are being asked? Something is rotten in suburbia! Welcome to the clown show! 🤡
Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!!
Back to Top
buddhalite View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 11 2017
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 19 2021 at 10:32pm
It certainly was - I kinda like them guys. Maybe we need a show like that here in Middletown.
"Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises
Back to Top
accuro View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: May 31 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 103
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote accuro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2021 at 11:15pm
A physician said, the vaccine (cash) came before the pandemic, man made, to yield Bb for opiate settlement, to restructure mobile workers, write code in WVa or Vt, than California, and to consolidate government control. Mega Bb companies, once broken apart. Internet today, Spectrum or ATT.

This is more police, fire, needing new bldings and jail. The Bitler Cty plane, watching your hand pick up a dime. Its the police, jail, not the entertainment mecca. Covid worked. All that excess money given to states, down. Mayor has this figured out, not sure about others.
An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out. - Will Rogers
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2749
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2021 at 5:31pm
Have you watched the second Racine video?
To me, it was more interesting than the first…..
Back to Top
middletownscouter View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Oct 11 2010
Location: Sunset Park
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote middletownscouter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2021 at 8:47am
Originally posted by buddhalite buddhalite wrote:

I completely agree with you - the numbers on all of this don't add up - and I kinda feel like Middletown is River City, Iowa and we're in the worst version of the Music Man ever displayed.


Once this is done, we definitely need a way to move all these visitors from the highway to downtown.  Only one solution for that: MONORAIL!

There are two types of people: those that talk the talk and those that walk the walk. People who walk the walk sometimes talk the talk but most times they don't talk at all, 'cause they walkin.'
Back to Top
buddhalite View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 11 2017
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2021 at 3:31pm
Ah. Honestly I'm so blindingly mad about this that I can't see straight on the matter.

I completely agree with you - the numbers on all of this don't add up - and I kinda feel like Middletown is River City, Iowa and we're in the worst version of the Music Man ever displayed.

The talking heads from Racine are pretty funny to watch - and they know our beloved City Manager - this video is worth a watch if you haven't seen it yet.  These guys know the swindle first hand - and if you think about it - this may be the largest swindle of its kind yet - reserved for Middletown!  Take a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrfnmL3RKpc
"Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises
Back to Top
Richard Saunders View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jun 30 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 232
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2021 at 1:25am
Originally posted by buddhalite buddhalite wrote:

Just looked at the published agenda for Tuesday's City Council meeting...no mention of Hollywoodland.
La La Land...oops...Hollywoodland will be on the agenda of a "special" meeting on Thursday, 10/21/2021.

Also, if you look back at my first post on this thread I commented that the "two year" projected schedule reported in the Hamilton-Middletown Urinal News on 10/7 would likely end up at 4 or 5 years.  The City Manager has already conceded that it will be "3 or 4".  I stand by my projection of 4 to 5.

I also stand by my other past remarks.  Make a note of them, they will come to pass if this project is given a green light.

Also,  They project the hiring of 15 new police officers and 12 new firefighters/EMTs during/after this project.  That's only 3 or 4 per shift.  This will be to service an AVERAGE of 10,000 visitors per day, 365 days per year, plus who knows how many new residents/workers/grifters during and after the construction.  (Construction workers will be in the thousands to complete it in even 5 years; carnies and other workers to run the new operation will also run in the thousands.)

Our police and fire are stretched now, and City Hall wants to move fire stations FARTHER away from the river.  So, will 3 or 4 additional firefighters/EMTs and police per shift even maintain the status quo level of service?  What do YOU think. I know what I think.
Back to Top
buddhalite View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 11 2017
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 15 2021 at 11:40pm
Just looked at the published agenda for Tuesday's City Council meeting...no mention of Hollywoodland.
"Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises
Back to Top
Bill View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Nov 04 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 710
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 12 2021 at 2:39pm
I don't profess to know about the feasibility of this project...certainly lifers here have reason to be a little cynical about pie-in-the-sky plans.  But three points come to mind -- 
1.  Why here?  It would seem this kind of project could be built in dozens of places throughout the Midwest.  So why HERE?  I wonder about the developers' motives for a location that is relatively inconvenient for visitors.
2.  Very few in this town could evaluate and project whether a venture will be a success or not.
3.  Too many here seem to have cavier standards when it comes to anything happening in town. These same folks would probably rather see a Trump immigrant detention center built along the river than anything resembling an attractive destination.
Back to Top
accuro View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: May 31 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 103
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote accuro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 4:11pm
Translation. Raccine, Wisc., City Mgr came from there, upscale, thinking Middletown is Raccine? High wealth community on Lake Michigan.

2. If non emergency, 3-2 vote even i favor, defeats it. Joe M will vote NO.

3. Hollywoodland, perception name came from Ron Howard movie, Hillbilly Eulogy, supposition, or the streams are 3d movies? Didnt get context of venues offered.

4. Adkins. Fired because he upset Triple Moon but the project cannabolizes entire downtown. Ironic right?

5. Politics. Firm out of Mn, Cliffs major footprint in Mn, tight relationship with Dewine and local politics, real.

6. Maayor- Great questions, push back.

7. Example- admission only they relied on numbers of people in 25 miles. Non address of competition of competitive venues, Fraze, others. Bigger drawl, casino v this project?

No answers how long you would stay, show, then concert, then what, 10 hrs there, stay in hotel, why? Then hit Gracies or bar downtown? Why?

Port authority. Warren and Middletown. Leverage amenities and markets but this plays where against West Chester, Cincinnati, equivalent offerings?

An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out. - Will Rogers
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2749
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 3:40pm
lol—translation?

One last thought:
Is this being emergencied in order to get it passed before the Council election?
Vitori’s yes vote will be gone…..maybe Mulligan the way the public is reacting.
The other candidates are wild cards so far.

The next 10 days should be interesting as rumors and info fly around!
Back to Top
middiemom View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: May 21 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote middiemom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 10:41am
What?????
Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!!
Back to Top
accuro View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: May 31 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 103
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote accuro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 8:25am
What has happened to Middletown and this forum? Taxes for roads, big plans, coming back, why? JD Vance writing a book that the movie failed but gained fame more for explaining the Trump win. Challenging right, bleach right, having an ambassador drug through Benghazi with 4 or 5 rangers former seals and Rangers help? Pretty elementary, they disdained Hillary.

The project. This is Kings Island in audacious, fictitious numbers. Traffic coming through Monroe, utilization of numbers withing proximity. What about Fraze? Enormous venues for concerts, including MUM. Hotels? For what? Hlywoodland, the metaphor for Ron Howard and HE or similar. Productions? Streaming. This has to be a comic in disguise of fiction.

Seems someone wants to control politically Mn to Florida, get rid of Admins now Jones playing same tune, there might be a clnflict in civil matted, nuts. Showtime and diversion. The redistricting politics is CIA dangerous.the project, politics, not money.

Raccine is upscale, many commute from there to Chicago to work. This is a ridiculous concept. Firing Admins and having Triple Moon cannabolize by HWL. But Adkins was placed, not fired. Wheres the Finance Mgr they havent placed in 6 months? Power brokers over from Trenton in public sector pulling these moves. Maybe UD who owns the Dayton Marriott will place one in The city for HWL.

Amzing the hypocricy and hyperbole that came from JD Vance. He described angry white guys and even admitted the correlation with Trump was non existent, it was Hillary C was so bad.

Now we have passed high
h tax, paved roads, painted grey city, cancelled football games, shots football players? And have Elvis ergo Las Vegas moving in. The mayor was the rock star on display. Questions, not buying into the dream big of a minor turnaround thanks to Cliffs to Marimac Island now Middletown. Redistricting did this, and a Mn to Florida political lobbyist dream.

An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out. - Will Rogers
Back to Top
buddhalite View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 11 2017
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 11:12pm
So, you're okay with it?
"Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises
Back to Top
buddhalite View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 11 2017
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 11:10pm
FWIW - there's at least 4 people in this city who know all the ins and outs of this sort of thing - they just weren't asked or included.

But also - therein lies the problem. This is WAY out of place in Middletown, Ohio! It doesn't fit the tenor of the community in any way.
"Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises
Back to Top
Richard Saunders View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jun 30 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 232
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 10:39pm
And another thing...I wonder how much of the land these folks have targeted for redevelopment are considered by our friends in the federal government as "wetlands"?  Will all of this acreage actually be allowed to be developed?  Will displaced wetlands have to be replaced by new wetlands in adjacent areas?
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2749
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 9:10am
I don’t know of any locals that could pull this off, and the entity engaged with the city has no record of doing it either. Your hat being my main concern. Seems we usually get burned when we go that way(Manchester—Goetz/Rose).

City has worked on this somewhat quietly for 10 months and just sprung it on the public as a 3-week emergency??

As mentioned prior, there would need to be studies about impact in that area and infrastructure to support the project. Also the labor and materials issue to get it done. Will take a long while and probably cost considerably more. Probably fits with the Oaklawn project if we can afford both…..will Garfįeld/Baltimore area be leveled?

Seems a stretch, however I have no skin in the game and don’t really know if the project is a good idea or what…..
Can’t fault the city for shooting high and reaching for a breakthrough. As a lifer, the city seems somewhat quiet these days with very limited dining/entertainment options.

Puts Joe Mulligan in the hot seat after 3 generations of Mulligan comments at the meeting and an upcoming Council election. I still think that this should be a key Council election issue where candidates take a stand and the public decides on Election Day….

Otherwise probably time for me to shut up and watch…..
Back to Top
Richard Saunders View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jun 30 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 232
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 07 2021 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by buddhalite buddhalite wrote:

... What I always love is how council believe there's no on in Middletown capable of doing anything like this without bringing in out of state people ...
There probably are only one or two very old guys who are capable (or at least have the experience) of handling a job like this, so they will have to bring in out-of-towners.

For example, who in town realizes that a job this size needs a Project Labor Agreement negotiated with the General President's Committee of the AFL-CIO Building & Trades Council before the first shovel of dirt is turned?  I believe that only one guy in Middletown has ever been involved in the negotiations for a billion $+ Project Labor Agreement before, and he's older than dirt.
Back to Top
buddhalite View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 11 2017
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 07 2021 at 10:16pm
Was this a serious comment or were you speaking tongue-in-cheek?

You know they were hoping to ram this through before 2 of them disappear....
"Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises
Back to Top
buddhalite View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 11 2017
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 07 2021 at 10:15pm
The meeting was an exercise in futility.  It was apparent at that moment that 4 of the 5 thought the entire city would jump up and down screaming in anticipation of the projects completion.....

Until....

Comments started.  I agree - the SMain types that I thought would have been for it (I wrote the opening salvo on this before the meeting ever started) were solidly AGAINST this - although I think the developers misread one thing BIG TIME on this project....

The name.

If the name had been Miami Wonderland or The Landings at Miami Trails - this might have been better received.

The name just doesn't fit anything you'd ever see in suburban anywhere - let alone Steel City USA.

So - our fearful city of <50k now is gonna have three big complexes like this?  From the Mall (which has gained no traction I don't think) the whatever district they want to redevelop and now the riverfront - wow. Millions of visitors to a 50K population city?

And - to top it all off - it was an EMERGENCY measure. Why? I would think that as long as this thing will take to complete jumping a legislative hoop like waiting the extra few weeks to just treat it as regular legislation is just their way of mitigating the wait to get it voted in and over with.

What I always love is how council believe there's no on in Middletown capable of doing anything like this without bringing in out of state people and giving them huge sums of our money that we'll never see again when they run off with it. I mean - I'll gladly take the nearly 9M they want to commit to this project and you'll never see my fat ass again!

This whole thing is a crock of excrement and it stinketh.
"Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises
Back to Top
Richard Saunders View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jun 30 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 232
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 07 2021 at 3:40pm
Where do I start?

Let's ignore for the moment whether or not this is even a an economically feasible project. 

I don't think that City Hall has thought this through.  

What state or federal agency permits will be required, and how long will it take to obtain them? Consider that this project includes a 3,000+ car underground parking garage right in our aquifer.   Permits aside, how will this affect cost?  Of course they could just pull another "Lake Mistake" and start without proper permits.

Think back to the $13 million project to remove the roof from the downtown mall.  Everyone at City Hall considered that a huge, overwhelming project and they couldn't figure out a way to do that in less than 3 years.  They didn't get the concept of "uncouple and accelerate".  They will be completely overwhelmed by a project such as this, but will refuse to let it go and let the experts handle it, so turn the two years into at least four or five.

With the trades workforce available in this area, it's probably a four year job anyway, so when you add 2 years for City Hall's meddling, make it five.  And it may take that long to get it past the Biden EPA in the first place, so by the time such a project could actually get going, with inflation it's likely to cost $3 or $4 billion.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.
Copyright ©2022 MiddletownUSA.com    Privacy Statement  |   Terms of Use  |   Site by Xponex Media  |   Advertising Information