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True Costs Of the MCSC School Levy

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Cooper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cooper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2014 at 10:41pm
Mr. Aflatkey,

Every state charges a different rate for tax for the use of a cell phone. But that is constitutional, because everyone pays the same percentage, and the user can choose not to have a cell phone.

In Ohio, if I get use service, without buying an item, you still have to pay a sales tax. How is that constitutional when I am using a service, but am not taking ownership of it?

We'll keep that porch light until you come over to the yes levy group.

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Paul Nagy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2014 at 10:42pm
aflatkey,
     I couldn't resist the temptation to try to be funny. I hope you didn't take offense and will press on. You are adding  a lot to the debate. Thank you.
        pn
    
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luke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2014 at 11:40pm
aflatkey,

You have some solid ideas, you aren't getting the framing correct.

States like North Carolina have higher state income tax, around 6.5-9 %, while Ohio is below 4%. But, Ohio makes up for it in much higher property tax, almost double to three times higher for the same amount of value.

What Ohio should do is raise its state income tax, to about 7%, add .5-1% to sales tax, take those total funds at state level, minus budget allocations, set aside enough total budget for school districts in total throughout state, which is below 700, and divide an equal amount to each district. That makes a better equitable distribution, which is what you are trying to say.

Agreed?  
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luke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 25 2014 at 11:48pm
aflatkey,

Wanted to add, the chore in getting the higher state income tax rate is the Governors, regardless of party, like to keep the tax rate down as a gimmick, and let the local towns sock it to the folks with property tax. Its not until companies and residents get to Ohio do they realize how screwed up the system is. But, that's the fix. Doubtful it would happen, because unemployment would go up based up[on doubling the state income tax, but this is how states than do have a balance and everyone pays something works.      
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aflatkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aflatkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 26 2014 at 1:57am

Luke, and fellow bloggers,

 

first off Cooper  turn your light off please , I don’t like motel 6 as they have bed bugs , never going there sorry LOL !!!!!!

 

while it might be true I don’t have the algorithm correct, and don’t know the specifics , I know that a high school diploma should have the same cash or educational value to  the rich , Middle class , or poor citizens. Threw  a % based land tax the rich pay more for their children’s education than the middle class  and the poor. This parallel is in reference that each social demographic group  most likely has property values that are reflective of their economic demographic attributes.  To contend as a government that a rich person should pay more for the same high school diploma that the poor get  is robbery !!!  All citizens should pay equally for all public  school services they get from their government.  Luke what you state at least tries to reduce the burden on  property tax payers. And yes it’s a legislative nightmare to get your elected representatives and senators to co-operate with out porking the bill up with ear marks they are trying to bring home to their constituents.

 

Consider this report from Tennessee , 

 

http://www.sitemason.com/files/jWin6g/educational_funding_primer.pdf

 

Tennessee public school system in Nashville is  where  their funding is 33 % from land tax,

26 % is from sales tax , 34 % is from state and government agencies , & 7 % is from other sources.

This is a  alternative. And don’t forget what %%%% comes from the Ohio state lottery ???? any body got

That number or statistic ? never heard any one talk about that  number ???? where’s that money fit in ?

Show me the money !!!

In other words are we to believe that that the Ohio School Facilities Commission is distributing these proceeds from the lottery with out audit or accountability that has been called for  thru out many years. Can any body give statistical Analysis on how that lotto money is helping our schools ?? im sure with all the intelligence this blog has to offer some one can come up with a report that is available on the web to show how it helps reduce our tax burden.  Yes I said REDUCE our tax burden. And don’t forget the county raised your tax burden this year.  Im sure all ya all welcomed that with open arms Like that song from JOURNEY.

 

Lets peal that onion and make some people cry !!!!

 

These things being said , and the fact that there is reasonable  concepts within my opinion why would you not want to fix it correctly? Or at least in a fashion that shows some fair play. To continue in the same rut is like funding a drug addicts habit till their own death. A alternative that shows some reasonable effort to distribute the tax burden would be more likely accepted. Also if you did not suggest a tax burden till death for the benefit of a failing school system, that might help as well.  In any case I must continue in the pursuit of a equal and fair tax system that includes all tax payers and residents legal or illegal. Their kids go to our schools and they should pay as well. Or use contraception !! 

 

I take no offence to any jab at my written statements. It only strengthens my resolve to  try to express my self in a way that might be better understood. 

I like jokes keep them coming  LOL

 
 
Abolish the property tax for the school system!! its unconstitutional !!

Vote no on may 6 if you want to make a change in the current system!!

 

Visit

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Middletown-Ohio-Vote-NO-on-Issue-3/784089358269325?ref=br_tf

 

and like the page to show support of your constitutional freedoms in Ohio.

 

please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion as

Brevity is the soul of wit   /  and with out laughter over the kinks in society anarchy might prevail.

and that's the rest of the story , good day ( Paul Harvey 1946)

aflatkey
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 26 2014 at 7:34am
aflatkey, you now are home, you have the puzzle complete.

Before you were stating the right concept, you were simply basing it on the wrong theory associated with unconstitutional principles.  It is not funding is unconstitutional, rather, it is arbitrary and inequitable. In Middletown, 45% that attend MCSD that have children in the system, don't  pay taxes. That is constitutional, but it is inequitable, based upon 55% paying taxes for an additional 45% that pay nothing.

Georgia, North Carolina,, Kentucky, and other states, have the same funding formula you wish to implement.

With that, I agree with what your point to be.

Hope it helps frame your argument.    
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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aflatkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aflatkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 26 2014 at 9:45am
good morning Acclaro, and fellow blogers

just to be clear , I don't wish to implement that formula , i just wanted to show that in some states sales tax helps re leave the burden from land owners. I don't have a bonefied solution to the problem . The unconstitutionality of the inequality in funding and inequality in common education are by the supreme count of Ohio a significant abuse of citizens constitutional rights. they relinquished jurisdiction because they could not get the  state representatives and senators to in act legislation that would fix the unfair funding of districts that have favorable higher income demographics as well as poor neighborhoods not receiving the funding so they could have a rich mans public school. When a  murderer commits his crime and the authorities can not aprehend  the criminal it dose not make him innocent. The supreme court has notified all representatives, senators and citizens that the crime has been committed against your constitutional freedoms. your legislators need to aprehend the bogus legislation that produces this hanus propagating system and stand for your constitutional rights. What is the correct fix ?? well you can blog about that but if your legilators dont fix it, why should we continue to fund their unability to derive a positive outcome.  stop all funding till they sit down and ratifiy something that  is fair in funding and comon and equal in education. Stop giving the money just out of pitty that they canot come to tearms with a positive solution.  Dont confuse the issue with the can of worms of income tax , federal , state , or local. that it self should be addressed in a blog by its self.  I do like the language you have provided  Acclaro " rather, it is arbitrary and inequitable" as it in some respects show the unconstitutional attributes that are in place. I know you did not intend for that particular use of the reference in your language, so I will be satisfied with your perception. at least for  a few hours..LOL !!
On a nice spring day like today all should consider that it is with in each season that the struggle for equality in social  and  economic  programs have a renewed interest by concerned citizens. This is as well part of the process and constitutional freedoms this state , and country provide  in the equitable solutions that citizens try to provide for all social and economic demographic groups.  It is democracy in action and its by far not perfect . Renew your interest in a common goals with a ferver of a porcupine. Defend what principals you stand for from the predators of unconstitutional legislation.
and get out and smell the flowers, its your freedom, enjoy


Abolish the property tax for the school system!! its unconstitutional !!

Vote no on may 6 if you want to make a change in the current system!!

 

Visit

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Middletown-Ohio-Vote-NO-on-Issue-3/784089358269325?ref=br_tf

 

and like the page to show support of your constitutional freedoms in Ohio.

 

please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion as

Brevity is the soul of wit   /  and with out laughter over the kinks in society anarchy might prevail.

and that's the rest of the story , good day ( Paul Harvey 1946)

aflatkey
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 26 2014 at 10:32am
aflatkey, I was hopeful you wre beginning to see the light associated with the true strength of the disparity of funding, than to continue to pain your position on unconstitutionality, which diminishes your position and support.

When one examines Randolph vs. State, the Ohio Supreme Court did not state property tax was unconstitutional, but rather, the state funding inadequacy caused an imbalance between districts, whereas wealthy dstricts naturally had more money to put into education, and poor districts had less, as their tax base was lower.

The redress became in Ohio, through OSFC, adoption of a formula which every 3 year interval, the state OSFC takes an average of the district tax base, and then calculates a percentile and contribution the state will provide, to balance disproportionate funding. A district like Oakwood or Upper Arlington receives almost, if not entirely, no state funding, whereas a district such as Springfield receives a substantial amount of state funding.

That is the remedy, and the reason the Supreme Court no longer maintained jurisdicition. So, you presently advocate the Supreme Court did not go far enough. Then, the logical step would be the state legislation, which nothing has been done since the initial decision in Randolph.

You were on the right track, but now continue to follow the wrong trail, walking in a circle when the path is due north.

Taking your statements further, one would indicate it is unconstitutional to not be born equally, to have a rich family, a middle income family, and a poor family, because it is unfair, the rich family naturally has a better position for success, than the other two. Or worse, you subscribe to communistic doctrine, whereas the state compensates for inequalities, by making everyone equal, and having one work based upon the dictation of the state.

You are walking in circles; grab a compass, and head due north. You will find what you seek, but only when following and walking on the right path.

 

        
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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aflatkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aflatkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 26 2014 at 11:46am
ah tonto I see your your tipi in the distance, you do point out the basic problem of income inequality in districts. That is all I need.you mention that the osfc makes up for the short fall. Do you have a link to their audit ? Do they distribute the profits from the lottery? I imagine were on the same side in some respects, and I know for a fact you are knolageable as your post show some intuative thought. I just don't think from where I stand that the funding process is fair. I am not responsible for all the children in my district , they are not my family ,hell they don't even greet me at the dollar store. And walking in circles is good exercise. LOL
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 26 2014 at 12:12pm
Well, lets just quit paying tax if our kids don't attend a school that is public, or when our kids are out of school. I am married but cannot have children, therefore, I should not pay for schools?

Where is the tobacco money being spent from litigation in Ohio (class action), Lone Ranger?

 
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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aflatkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aflatkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 26 2014 at 1:34pm

 There comes a time when a man should wear a mask LOL !!

 

while the gentleman’s picture you post is humorous in fact  his opinions show the lack of common good in the tax system. you should never pay for something you don’t believe in. how ever the government system binds you to pay for things you don’t agree with. its just a fact of a taxpayers life. So when ever you can stop the bleeding you should. The conceptual thought that it is society’s obligation to provide for what parents do not discipline in education in their own homes  is a waste of taxpayers  resources. You can bring a horse to water but you cant make him drink. The same applies to a camel. A  ravens quest is to live of the disparity of all other animals in death. You can see this aptitude in your legislators urge for re-election. While they show their good side and proclaim justice for all their constituents, they continue in their political plight to save their political careers with what ever back room deals bring the issue or issues  to rest in a favorable light for their re election.

 

term limits anybody ??

 

 

 

Abolish the property tax for the school system!! its unconstitutional !!

Vote no on may 6 if you want to make a change in the current system!!

 

Visit

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Middletown-Ohio-Vote-NO-on-Issue-3/784089358269325?ref=br_tf

 

and like the page to show support of your constitutional freedoms in Ohio.

 

please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion as

Brevity is the soul of wit   /  and with out laughter over the kinks in society anarchy might prevail.

and that's the rest of the story , good day ( Paul Harvey 1946)

 

aflatkey
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aflatkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aflatkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 26 2014 at 9:15pm
Tonto (acclaro )

you stated

 "When one examines Randolph vs. State, the Ohio Supreme Court did not state property tax was unconstitutional, but rather, the state funding inadequacy caused an imbalance between districts, whereas wealthy dstricts naturally had more money to put into education, and poor districts had less, as their tax base was lower."

you could argue that the in balance is provided by using property tax values to generate the inconsistency in funding- hence forth by useing property tax as a tool to generate the funding stream you are propigating the inequality inherant to each social economic demographic group threw out various districts. Dont fund it with property tax and WOW all of a sudden the rich cannot generate more than the poor.  that levels the playing field for me. its not that property tax is unconstitutional. its that its use as a  funding tool for schools generates unequal streams of funding depending on the social  and economic demographic of each district. even when the OFSC chips in their two cents the thing is still not truly balanced , if it was we would not have to endure the pain of bonds and levy's that ask more from poor districts. and in my opinion that is one reason the use of property tax  as a funding tool in unconstitutional.

your friend the Long Ranger ,  we ride for justice, and justice is what you seek,



Abolish the property tax for the school system!! its unconstitutional !!

Vote no on may 6 if you want to make a change in the current system!!

 

Visit

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Middletown-Ohio-Vote-NO-on-Issue-3/784089358269325?ref=br_tf

 

and like the page to show support of your constitutional freedoms in Ohio.

 

please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion as

Brevity is the soul of wit   /  and with out laughter over the kinks in society anarchy might prevail.

and that's the rest of the story , good day ( Paul Harvey 1946)

 



aflatkey
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Cooper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cooper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 26 2014 at 10:32pm
Mr. aflatkey,

I must indicate you are trying to persuade many that are no voters, and on the same side, so you should be moving yes voters over, not those in the same infield as you.

You again are back to where you started. The state set up the OSFC after the Randolph ruling, and it is the state that makes up the inequality of funding, not the property tax owner. If you check the county tax rate in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, through 2014, it is the same percentage. It is the state which was found to be at fault, not the use of property tax. What made it unconstitutional was the fact poor districts did not raise the same taxes as rich districts. If I have 5 P & G's in my district, and your district has just a hospital and property owners, my district is richer. I don't get as much from the state as you do through OSFC.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2014 at 1:18am
Aflatkey: this is so funny that I literally fell out of my chair laughing! How many posts have you written---in bold letters, even with me poking fun at it----that DeRolph versus the state was a landmark decision, and then you respond RANDOLPH versus the state? Actually, the case for Randolph was the State vs. Randolph, citation: [Cite as State v. Randolph, 2011-Ohio-488.]: "Appellant appeals his conviction for complicity to bank robbery, entered on
a finding of guilty after a no contest plea in the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas." I pulled this off of Wikipedia, one of the most reliable internet sites. If it's in Wikipedia, you are guaranteed that it's accurate: "DeRolph v. State was a landmark case in Ohio constitutional law in which the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that the state's method for funding public education was unconstitutional." Hmm. sounds familiar. just 1chmoore.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aflatkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2014 at 2:55am
while you might be right in the respect of im talking to the wrong group of people , be joyfull that i am so fervent in the cause, I don't believe the OSFC is accountable for its actions and it has never been audited as far as i can find. if you think my post are stupid and with out merit that's fine. It is still my opinion . in my view property tax is a unfair way of getting equal portions from all taxpayers. and the court case states that their is no balance to the funding stream. To me its just that simple. all the % talk and other in depth details in relation to some equation that produces a specific result is irrelevant.
 a district has 4 citizens  or residents legal or illegal, with or with out real estate property, public schools cost 100.00. all 4 tax paying humans  pay 25.00 dollars. period.
no other way but equal tax threw equal representation. not based on the supposed value of your upidy home, or your trashy home ,or your lack of home.
and if the district dose not meet the cost then - witch is mathematically  impossible  then have the beurocratic OSFC throw in some money for good measure LOL
equal and accountable by adult population. any one over 18 must pay their fair part of the bill.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2014 at 9:28am
Well played chmoore1; I planted the wrong case to see if aflatkey even recalled the appellee in the case and which county appellee was residing. You are correct on the Morrow case.

alflatkey, friend, DeRolph is the case which you disagree, not Randolph, you indicated it was constitutional, yet you have in the tag line it is unconstitutional.

I don't like it when gas prices rise, it is inequitable. Therefore, I am going to burn all gas stations. Isn't that what you are indicating?

Son of Anarchy is a show some may like to watch, but dangerous to follow in the path when reasoning for anarchy is flawed. I  am convinced now you are walking the infinity trail, taking you back to where you started without making ground in direction, but walking many steps,

Call Sec of State H and ask about the audit----you will find what you covet grasshopper.      
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cooper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2014 at 10:49am


No to levy, but not because we shouldn't pay taxes, but because the benefit isn't worth the expense.

Lets go shutdown the Federal Reserve, they print money with gold in Fort Knox, but there isn't gold in Fort Know. No one has seen it since the early 1960's.

Giving the opposition to levy aflatkey.....Ouch a black eye.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2014 at 1:13pm
Wanted to see if Aflatkey was paying attention. Remember: DeRolph vs. State was a landmark decision....     just 1chmoore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aflatkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2014 at 11:46pm
fellow blogers,

After a 16 hour day at  work , I return to view what has been contributed to the blog.  I understand that most of you perceive me as one who might be irrational and incoherent with my postings.  This is your right of perception and freedom in this country. As bloggers you have been a notable class of distinguished writers of opinions that have relevance to the subject in specificity as well as statistical and documental references.

As the D day approaches in 8 days ,  for the final count down of votes on a subject that stirs all involved in different ways I have a few  things I would like you to know.

Im totally fine with falling home values – let the bottom drop out again. This lowers my tax bill.

The rank of Ohio’s education proficiency in the usa is number 49 out of 50. I say we should try to be the worst. Not second worst. At least  at that point we would be winners of the worst category.

Not everybody can be a winner , there has to be losers for there to be winner.

These statistical items have no impact on a students  educational  discipline that is instilled in the students home. As stated by several blogers if we get a lower statistic we will qualify for more money in a few years.

That saves taxpayers money. You might say “ what do we do for the students now ?” as responsible parents that want their children to have a well  disciplined education you need to invest in your children not expect the state or local district that is 49th in the nation to provide the results you aspire for your children.

The answer is not in  your BOE district its in your families ability to provide for your children. Some will not be able to do this type of realignment for their children because of social  and economic demographics. This is not the first time society has had a short fall.  While some might think I might be a anarchist or communist , I beg to differ. While it is true I like medieval history and enjoy the movies of those times, there is a specific Honor attribute to those times in history that you rarely see in society today.  As for the one who thought I might be a communist in thinking, you might have to retract that idea as a communist dose not have the ability to think freely with out retribution from their communist government. I am not in fear for sharing my opinions of tax equality threw equal taxation with equal representation. In the end my motive was just to share my opinion. Much like the political adds you see on tv during election times. It was a campaign with no monetary resources that motivated people to interact, in positive and negative ways towards my opinions. The redundant repetition of concepts and ideas was a direct representation of all the political adds you endure on local tv that you eventually endorse or hate.  I did it for free , your politicians spend millions to get elected or re-elected . these inconsistencies in our governments mechanics are truly a breach of  the trust citizen’s put in politicians that  take the oath of office.  I bid all of you fare well  as I will not return to this forum till after the may 6th vote. I  have enjoyed all who have tried to change my opinion, and all who see some relative contribution that I have provided. Take it easy and be safe in your day to day activities.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 28 2014 at 9:41am
lol a-flat---you should NEVER post that "good bye" message--since u will most likely eat those words like most others do.

While repetitive, I have appreciated your presence and strongly agree with your basic premise of defeating ALL property tax-based levys until the state formula is changed. I favor a sales tax increase of approx. 3% to spread the cost to everyone. If you spend, then you are taxed regardless of income or property ownership.

I have no interest in your "race to the bottom" even though it would be a short ride for Middletown residents. Our property is depressed enough for reasons brought on by a national situation and local economic factors. It doesn't help that our local govt. has pretty much valued all commercial properties as worthless, based on paying people to take buildings in the area formerly known as downtown. Kinda silly to expect others to pay for properties in the vicinity.

So--we have a city govt.and school system that both(in the last 15 years) went after increasing the Section 8 presence in the area....??
The city in order to get the fed $$$ which was probably initially mis-spent on pet self-serving projects(property grants to homeowners in the "historic" S Main area?) and on business owners in the same approximate area.
Allegedly former school super Dr.Price wanted increased Section 8 in order to add to enrollment in order to receive more fed $$?
If this double whammy is true, then the consequences that have followed call for clean sweeps of everyone involved in this process.

The school system has suffered through test scoring,it's outside perception, and the shift of good students to private schooling and home schooling. The city has suffered economically as the local business system has dried up and shrunk to barely sustainable levels. It has now become a quality of life issue as to whether people want to move into this community, and sadly, those successful long-term contributors who now want to leave regardless of the cost.

Look to the east end---we have a mall on the ropes with the worst pot hole thru way that I know of. I believe that a nice Target location will close this week.

Look to the west end--despite strong efforts by a few locals + decades and millions, continues to struggle. Liberty went down, Stain went down, numerous Pendleton delis have gone down, Sugar Hi never opened, and At the Square seems to struggle. Retail barely exists above minimum levels and quality,

I am committed to trying to bring things back for as long as I remain here. The schools must go on, and continue to raise their performance levels while significantly controlling expenses. Our city agovt/admin structure has to change, and will soon--particularly with the names, faces and priorities pursued. I truly believe that. It has taken a long time to sink this low--it will take a long time to make it better.

We need to eliminate the cliques and pockets of special interests and priorities. We must become ONE community where everyone and every area receives equal concern and support. Every neighborhood/area is important, almost all are struggling, and they all need to be equally addressed. The "old guard" and their "old ways" aren't working, and haven't worked for 20+ years. We need 20-33-40-50yo tops progressive individuals to fairly and successfully bring us out of our old, tired and failed ways. We have an important election next week, and another more important election in November. If we don't bring in change, then we get more of the same. Is that what YOU WANT?
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 28 2014 at 10:37am

Spider
I totally agree with your entire above statement
Spot on and well said Thumbs Up

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over the hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 28 2014 at 10:59am
Well said Spider.
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over the hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 28 2014 at 11:01am
I can't seem to get the "emoticons" to work what am I doing wrong?
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 28 2014 at 12:44pm
sj, I have always found your point of view and writing prose to be succinct. In fact, I find both you and Marcia Andrew to have an excellent ability to summarize points, and "net" with clarity, the underlying issues and present some semblance of a solution.

I don't disagree with your position on there should be a better means of equitable taxation. However, I disagree with an approximate 3 % sales tax. I add; you clearly weren't presenting this as a solution, just a demonstration that you see a system broken and flawed. If one were to raise sales tax, it would stymie commerce in Ohio. Consumers outside Ohio would not buy products to pay a tariff on their imports to supplement Ohio's school system. It doesn't work internally, and it would not effectively work inter and intrastate. Both ebay and amazon are keeping the US economy from total collapse because they don't charge sales tax. In states which they are forced to do so, their sales are 9-10% below, the states which they legally aren't mandated to collect these fees during the online transaction. Your point is made; there has to be a fix, but sales tax alone isn't the proper fix, in my opinion nonetheless.

You made reference to Dr. Price and increase avocation of section 8 vouchers. Airlines use load factors, and software companies use license fees associated with utilization. In other words, you state by allegations, Dr. Price used section 8 to fill seats in MCSD. I admit, I have heard the same allegation. Do you have proof of this assertion, although speculative? If so, the approval would go the Marty Koelher, and if true, that is disturbing city council is now undoing what was done incorrectly, 10-12 years ago, and would appear to warrant immediate action.

I would also be curious what you mean by your commitment to turn Middletown around, and what fashion: running for office, investing, or recognizing problems to fix them? You also made reference to changes in city haul, council perhaps, and so forth.

Your feedback would be helpful to better understand your position. There are overwhelming problems confronting Middletown. I see higher taxation the absolute worst remedy for the inflicted wounds you have delineated. Many are bailing in Middletown, you appear to be willing to stay on board through the perfect storm coming.         
 
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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over the hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 28 2014 at 3:18pm
Acclaro: City council can't undue what's been done. They took the vouchers for the money. As Laubaugh tried to tell them there is ALWAYS consequences. There is always a trade off. Now they have decided they like the money but no longer want the vouchers but you cannot separate the two. I guess HUD has decided to move the program because they refuse to come in compliance so the money will go also. So Judy failed in her attempt to get rid of the vouchers. Wasn't that the reason she was brought here.
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