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Health Insurance Profits....Hmmmmmmmm

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Pacman View Drop Down
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    Posted: Oct 26 2009 at 4:25pm

FACT CHECK: Health insurers' profits 35th of 53

By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer Calvin Woodward, Associated Press Writer Mon Oct 26, 10:06 am ET

WASHINGTON – In the health care debate, Democrats and their allies have gone after insurance companies as rapacious profiteers making "immoral" and "obscene" returns while "the bodies pile up."

But in pillorying insurers over profits, the critics are on shaky ground. Ledgers tell a different reality.

Health insurance profit margins typically run about 6 percent, give or take a point or two. That's anemic compared with other forms of insurance and a broad array of industries, even some beleaguered ones.

Profits barely exceeded 2 percent of revenues in the latest annual measure. This partly explains why the credit ratings of some of the largest insurers were downgraded to negative from stable heading into this year, as investors were warned of a stagnant if not shrinking market for private plans.

Insurers are an expedient target for leaders who want a government-run plan in the marketplace. Such a public option would force private insurers to trim profits and restrain premiums to compete, the argument goes. This would "keep insurance companies honest," says President Barack Obama.

The debate is loaded with intimations that insurers are less than straight, when they are not flatly accused of malfeasance.

The insurers may not have helped their case by commissioning a report that looked primarily at the elements of health care legislation that might drive consumer costs up while ignoring elements aimed at bringing costs down. Few in the debate seem interested in a true balance sheet.

A look at some claims, and the numbers:

THE CLAIMS

_"I'm very pleased that (Democratic leaders) will be talking, too, about the immoral profits being made by the insurance industry and how those profits have increased in the Bush years." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., who also welcomed the attention being drawn to insurers' "obscene profits."

_"Keeping the status quo may be what the insurance industry wants. Their premiums have more than doubled in the last decade and their profits have skyrocketed." Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, member of the Democratic leadership.

_"Health insurance companies are willing to let the bodies pile up as long as their profits are safe." A MoveOn.org ad.

THE NUMBERS:

Health insurers posted a 2.2 percent profit margin last year, placing them 35th of 53 industries on the Fortune 500 list. As is typical, other health sectors did much better — drugs and medical products and services were both in the top 10.

The railroads brought in a 12.6 percent profit margin. Leading the list: network and other communications equipment, at 20.4 percent.

HealthSpring, the best performer in the health insurance industry, posted 5.4 percent. That's a less profitable margin than was achieved by the makers of Tupperware, Clorox bleach and Molson and Coors beers.

The star among the health insurance companies did, however, nose out Jack in the Box restaurants, which only achieved a 4 percent margin.

UnitedHealth Group, reporting third quarter results last week, saw fortunes improve. It managed a 5 percent profit margin on an 8 percent growth in revenue.

Van Hollen is right that premiums have more than doubled in a decade, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation study that found a 131 percent increase.

But were the Bush years golden ones for health insurers?

Not judging by profit margins, profit growth or returns to shareholders. The industry's overall profits grew only 8.8 percent from 2003 to 2008, and its margins year to year, from 2005 forward, never cracked 8 percent.

The latest annual profit margins of a selection of products, services and industries: Tupperware Brands, 7.5 percent; Yahoo, 5.9 percent; Hershey, 6.1 percent; Clorox, 8.7 percent; Molson Coors Brewing, 8.1 percent; construction and farm machinery, 5 percent; Yum Brands (think KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell), 8.5 percent.

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Hermes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2009 at 4:50pm
The oil companies aren't making a profit either,at over $2.60 gallon.
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2009 at 5:36pm
So Hermes you are of the Opinion that the Insurance company's are the sole problem with the rise in cost of health Care at 2.2% profit?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2009 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Pacman Pacman wrote:

So Hermes you are of the Opinion that the Insurance company's are the sole problem with the rise in cost of health Care at 6+/-% profit?
 
 
The insurance companies are not the "sole" problem, they are part of it though. The sole problem of high cost healthcare,gasoline,home utilities and anything else you can think of is pure old greed. The insurance company wants you to pay premiums but they don't want to have to pay anything back out for your care. A doctor spends hundreds of thousands of dollars for college because the college is greedy. (and forget about that "it cost for a good education" crap) The doctor has to charge a high price because he has student loans to pay for the next 20 years. Then you have the politicians who want nothing more than money in their pockets so thats more greed added to the situation. It's a vicious circle of greed coming at the working class poor from all directions. And because of the greed we are coming to the point of picking and choosing who lives and who dies because the politicians don't care and the insurance companies want to keep their money.
 
So to sum it all up the high cost blame can go to,college's,medical suppliers,insurance companies,politicians,pharmaceutical companies,some unions,and anyone else I can blame that has ties to health care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2009 at 7:01pm
Top industries: Most profitable
Industry Rank Industry 2008 Profits
as % of
Revenues
1 Network and Other Communications Equipment 20.4
2 Internet Services and Retailing 19.4
3 Pharmaceuticals 19.3
4 Medical Products and Equipment 16.3
5 Railroads 12.6
6 Financial Data Services 11.7
7 Mining, Crude-Oil production 11.5
8 Securities 10.7
9 Oil and Gas Equipment, Services 10.2
10 Scientific, Photographic, and Control Equipment 9.9
11 Household and Personal Products 8.7
12 Utilities: Gas and Electric 8.7
13 Aerospace and Defense 7.6
14 Food Services 7.1
15 Industrial Machinery 6.9
16 Food Consumer Products 6.7
17 Electronics, Electrical Equipment 6.5
18 Commercial Banks 5.2
19 Telecommunications 5.1
20 Chemicals 5.0
21 Construction and Farm Machinery 5.0
22 Insurance: Life, Health (stock) 4.6
23 Information Technology Services 4.5
24 Computers, Office Equipment 4.3
25 Metals 3.9
26 Wholesalers: Diversified 3.5
27 Insurance: Property and Casualty (stock) 3.3
28 Specialty Retailers 3.2
29 General Merchandisers 3.2
30 Health Care: Pharmacy and Other Services 3.0
31 Packaging, Containers 3.0
32 Beverages 2.9
33 Engineering, Construction 2.7
34 Health Care: Medical Facilities 2.4
35 Health Care: Insurance and Managed Care 2.2
36 Petroleum Refining 2.1
37 Food and Drug Stores 1.5
38 Pipelines 1.5
39 Wholesalers: Health Care 1.3
40 Semiconductors and Other Electronic Components 1.0
41 Energy 0.9
42 Home Equipment, Furnishings 0.7
43 Food Production 0.6
44 Wholesalers: Electronics and Office Equipment -0.3
45 Diversified Financials -0.6
46 Motor Vehicles and Parts -0.7
47 Insurance: Life, Health (mutual) -3.0
48 Hotels, Casinos, Resorts -4.5
49 Automotive Retailing, Services -7.9
50 Forest and Paper Products -9.6
51 Entertainment -10.0
52 Real Estate -13.4
53 Airlines -13.5
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2009 at 8:51pm
So if the Insurances Cos are not raking it in, that means poor people don't deserve a Dr when they need one?


I am of course being sarcastic, but your post are always so anti help anyone.

You tell us what poor people should do for Health Care. Please, tell us. Maybe I overlooked an obvious answer to the prob.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2009 at 9:14pm
irisner I am not the one pushing the agenda that Insurance Company's are making obscene profits and we need to blame them for what is wrong with the Health care system.  That is your liberal government making that claim. 
 
And on another note the two posts above came from the Associated Press and the Fortune 500 website and are not my words, but your conclusions are consistantly the same, rather than fix the problem throw more money at it.
 
And then gee look you have Obama making a deal with those companies that are actually raking in the big bucks in profits the Pharmaceutical companies, just as bad as the stupid mistakes Bush made with the Medicare Drug Plan and the Pharma Company's:
 

Obama's $80 Billion Deal with Pharma Is a Very Bad Deal for Us

By William Greider, The Nation
Posted on August 8, 2009, Printed on October 26, 2009

So now we know why the president wants everyone to make nice in the healthcare debate. His White House has cut a deal with Big Pharma that smells like the same old rotten politics that candidate Obama regularly denounced and promised to end. The drug industry agrees to deliver $80 billion in future savings and the president promises the government will not use its awesome purchasing power to negotiate lower drug prices.

Wow. This is roughly the same deal that George W. Bush cut with the drug makers when he was legislating Medicare's new coverage of drug purchases. It is the same bargain that Democrats in Congress universally condemned as wasteful and corrupt. The deal does not smell any better now that a Democratic president is embracing it.

In effect, Obama wants to give away one of the principal objectives of strong reform. The details were spelled out in today's New York Times and revealed by Big Pharma's top-dog lobbyist, Billy Tauzin, a former Republican congressman who leads the industry association. Tauzin called it a "rock-solid deal," and the White House did not dispute as much. But that is not the last word.

People who believe in real healthcare reform should not be nice about this. They must rise up and rebel against our popular new president's outrageous concession. They must demand that Congress declare the private deal-making null and void. If Congress lacks the nerve to do this, then this exercise in reform begins to look more and more like previous attempts that were eviscerated by the clout of the corporate interests.

The fate of healthcare reform may depend not on the Senate or the White House but on Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic majority in the House of Representatives. What prompted Billy Tauzin to spill the beans on his deal-making with White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel was the House measure that specifies government's right to bargain for lower prices. No, no, no! Tauzin said. We've got a deal with the president, who says that won't be allowed.

But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi simply responds that the House is not bound by any deals made with the Senate or the White House. Her caucus must back up her words. They should pass the House bill, which will allow the government to do what any major customer would do in the same circumstances -- use its leverage to demand lower prices.

If House Democrats stand their ground, then they will force a debate they can win with the American public. President Obama will have to choose between standing with the drug manufacturers or defending the original purpose of healthcare reform.

William Greider is the author of, most recently, "Come Home, America: The Rise and Fall (and Redeeming Promise) of Our Country (Rodale Books, 2009)."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2009 at 10:42pm
What Obama is doing is nothing more than smoke & mirror's. If Obama or congress wanted to truly help the American people we'd all get the same federal benefits that they all have. They won't even give vets those same benefits. DC is the good ole boys club and not a damned one of them is ever going to do anything for the people except to make life miserable. Party lines are so blurred you can't tell the difference anymore and lifers like John Boehner love it. Congress was never suppose to be a life time job with life time benefits. We can continue to vote and play the game about who gets what but in the end they win. I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said we needed to have a revolution every 100 years just to clean the garbage of DC and we are long overdue.
 
Whats any of what I'm saying got to do with the posted subject ? I don't have a clue. Confused  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2009 at 10:09am
With all due respect, none of the comments answered my question. What do we do,as a society, to enable People without financial resources to have Health Care.

My sarcastic remarks to Pacy were rooted in the constant criticism lodged against the Health Care Reform issue. Lots of  "they are stupid" comments, but no real answers about what should be done.



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