No Tax Increase

Mr. Presta, there has never been a "No Homework Allowed" policy at MCSD.

Pat wrote: Vet and Pac...First of all, the discipline policy came from Price and has changed significantly since he has been gone and in all the schools the discipline has changed for the positiive.

OK Pat- I have Journal articles from the 80's that give the surrounding school district comparison on the proficiency scores. Middletown is on the bottom. On the last published report on the proficiency scores, Middletown is on the bottom .....still/again. That's 25+ years to show some improvement, not 30 years- still too long. How many years does one try the same thing and how many lumps on the head does one have to incur before one finds out that it ain't workin' and it hurts when the lumps form? Insanity- trying the same failed approach over and over again and expecting a different result to occur.

You state-"Go read the explanation of each category on the ODE website"-"not individual school's results and what a district has to do to meet the criteria"- Mercy! That's just it, Pat....I have to look at the individual school results- THAT"S WHAT I CARE ABOUT. Sometimes, when you lump all the schools together when compiling data, the poorer ones grade out better than they really are as they are buffered by the better performing ones. I care about individual performance, not school grouping performance. When you group, you dilute. No more excuses about "not using individual school results or what a district has to do to meet criteria"- just GET IT DONE! The bosses (taxpayers in this case) at work don't want to hear excuses....they want you (the education people in this case) to do what is required to get the job done.....or......they'll find someone(new teachers/admin in this case) who will give them (the taxpayers again) what they ask for.

Discipline???? Pat, there hasn't been real discipline in the schools for years, since the parents intimidated the schools with their lawsuits for touching their "little angels". They stopped corporal punishment(which works in most areas) years ago. That's when the discipline left the schools. Time outs, taking away priviledges, suspensions are placebos that are not effective. Pain is. Use to be two sources for pain- the Dean of Boys/Girls and when you got home. Now, there is neither. Need that to come back, IMO.

Pat, the levy COULD be for more money if the tax base made up of businesses and citizens continues to leave town. That means that the ones staying will have to make up the difference to guarantee the schools their 18 million on this levy. Yes, it could mean more money for us property owners. This is a permanent levy, never to be voted on again. It is a "forever" tax to us property owners and we want to see something new in direction, performance and accountability to the people before we will approve it. Simple as that. No more "business as usual". That ain't cuttin' it anymore.

What proof do we have that the schools have been operating the same way for 30 years? Let's see.....if you do the same failed things for 30 years and you produce the same failed results for 30 years, it would indicate to me that there has not been any change at all OR that the changes that have been made in the 30 years have been surface fluff and not had one positive result or we would have been able to measure upward progress that would have made us take notice that we were achieving something. We also would have made strides in satisfying more than 5 of 30 indicators in the last 20+ years. We have been stuck on that number for years.

spiderjohn wrote: I am mostly concerned about the lack of organized support from the teachers,parents and students. Seems that they should be leading this parade instead of a few board members and private citizens. If our teachers won't support this, then MAYBE we have the wtrong group of teachers.

If our teachers won't support this, then it is more likely that we have the wrong group of administrators and BoE members!!!

Vet and Pac...First of all, the discipline policy came from Price and has changed significantly since he has been gone and in all the schools the discipline has changed for the positiive.

spiderjohn wrote: had a very long answer typed, vet it didn't stick and I was too lazy to copy first my bad   while you make a few good points(nothing new), I disagree with the conclusion of your thinking. How many times must you say the same thing?

While you are at it Mr. Newell take a look at the failure Middletown has become as far as Discipline also.

Spider- the levy approval and a yes vote is the "most logical choice"? It "pretty much has to be"? After over 30 years of watching the Middletown schools wander aimlessly, adrift at sea, with no upward positive indications that it will ever change, what would re-gifting them the money, do for us? We all know that the pro-levy people are predicting that there will be rampant disease and pestulence, the roof will collapse and Rome will burn if the levy isn't passed, but how about you pro-levy people telling us what we can expect from this school system if it does pass. What gives us any indication that things will be different this time around if we continue to give them more money to operate the same way they have been operating for 30 years?????Have they even attempted to make any radical changes after all these years? NO. Have they listened to the message about what the people expect from the schools that they are paying for? NO. Have they continued on the high salary/teacher's union dominated negotiations path all these years? YES. Do they continue to carry positions within the school system that are not needed like the "school spokesperson"- Alberico and multiple assistants? YES. Spider- isn't it time for the crap to hit the fan? Isn't it time to force a change, because you know as well as I, the education people haven't/won't change their little safe haven of operation on their own. Isn't it time to just let the state have it, strip it down to the bare essentials, gut the people who won't change and start over in the school's reconstruction? Whether the levy passes and the schools continue the decline because they refuse to change or the schools untimately go to the state to run, it is going to be painful to watch. With a state takeover, at least we will see a different group that will come in to run it. Perhaps that can be the change we want.???? We sure won't see it with the status quo.

spiderjohn wrote: smartman is correct. we do not need to go backwards, especially to this degree.   factor in the potential increase in potential polarization, cuts, threats and negative pub(though failed levys are hardly news), and we will go backwards.   YES is probably the only positive constructive answer, then hope for the education machine to move in the right direction with the new leadership. How else can you view things if you want any progress.

Spiderman,

I'm having a hard time with this one.....  I'm thinking Yes.... 

Well said Spider. The city is failing us. Just look around. The schools can be the bright spot for this community. That's why we need this levy to pass. We have a new leader even if it is by default. We need to give him a chance. He is from a situation very close to ours, maybe his new blood will make a difference. Lets dont let him start with half a deck. As for performance it is very hard for teachers to teach to a test, then have have the state change it every year. Hopefully a new leader will have new ideas to get parents involved with their childrens education.  That is the first step in improving performance.

Hey Vet if the schools were run like a business and the government butted out, it would be far more successful than it is currently.   Between the Feds and the State the system is screwed up, then you have the unions to deal with, recipe for disaster right there, which is exactly what we have currently.  Don't even get me started on some of the parents and lack of discipline in the schools.