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Cincinnati State III |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Memo to Greg Pratt: No, We still do not know how many of these students will be internet students.
The devil is in the details of this story... |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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“Together these two buildings will encompass the initial campus of
Cincinnati State here in Middletown,” Pratt said. “We know that
Cincinnati State is actively working on its programming and marketing
this facility.”
- Greg Pratt in Middletown Journal The statement above says it all. No one in Donham had any intention nor is Cincinnati State a game-changer for Middletown. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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-"The draft contract calls for the interior demolition and construction of the CG&E building and the senior center to start by May 1 and be completed by June 1, 2014" |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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OH, SO NOW IT'S CONTRACT TIME HUH? KINDA LATE IN THE GAME FOR COMMITMENT TIME, ISN'T IT?
Please help me understand this..... "School officials have said they plan to open the campus this fall". Then. later in the story..... "The draft contract calls for the interior demolition and construction of the CG&E building and the senior center to start by May 1 and be completed by June 1, 2014" AM I READING THIS CORRECTLY? THE FIRST LINE SAYS THEY PLAN TO OPEN IN THE FALL (OF 2012). THE SECOND LINE STATES THAT THE START OF INTERIOR DEMOLITION AND CONSTRUCTION OF THEIR TWO BUILDINGS- THE SENIOR CENTER AND THE CG&E BUILDING WILL BE COMPLETED BY JUNE, 2014. DOES ANYONE UNDERSTAND HOW THEY WILL OPEN IN 2012 AND HAVE THEIR BUILDINGS IN 2014? DON'T UNDERSTAND. ARE THEY PLANNING TO HAVE CLASSES AND CONDUCT BUSINESS IN BUILDINGS THAT ARE BEING GUTTED AND REDONE? OR, ARE THEY PLANNING TO OPEN AND HAVE STUDENTS IN A BUILDING THAT IS BEING REHABBED OR NOT HAVE ACTUAL STUDENTS ATTEND UNTIL 2014? "If the contract is breached, the city will step in to ensure the work is completed, he said." WHAT? WHY WOULD THE CITY STEP IN TO ENSURE THE WORK IS COMPLETED IF THEY HAVE A CONTRACT? IF THE CONTRACT IS BREACHED BY HEP OR CS, THEY ARE LIABLE FOR THE COMPLETION OF THE WORK, WHETHER THEY USE THE FACILITY OR NOT. IF A CONTRACT BREACH, THE CITY TAKES THEM TO COURT. WHY WOULD THE CITY EVEN SUGGEST ENSURING THE WORK IS COMPLETED IF THEY BACK OUT? USE TAXPAYER MONEY TO ENSURE THE COMPLETION? WHY WOULD ANYONE AGREE TO THAT? "Mulligan said the city’s investment in downtown buildings has given it the ability to control its “destiny” in key areas of downtown. But he said Tuesday that this contract will be the start of the city “getting out of the property-ownership business and it brings in the private sector for those buildings for development.” WHAT? MULLIGAN SHOULD REPHRASE HIS RESPONSE. HE SHOULD HAVE SAID, "THE CITY'S INVESTMENT IN DOWNTOWN BUILDINGS HAS GIVEN IT THE ABILITY TO CONTROL EVENTS IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA CLOSE TO THE MAIN ST./ S. MAIN ST. AREA FOR THE PURPOSE OF ATTEMPTING TO ENHANCE PROPERTY VALUES ALONG THAT CORRIDOR, WHICH JUST HAPPENS TO BE THE NEIGHBORHOOD I LIVE IN". MULLIGAN'S COMMENT ABOUT "THE START OF THE CITY GETTING OUT OF THE PROPERTY-OWNERSHIP BUSINESS" IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE! IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHY IS THE CITY CONTINUALLY BUYING PROPERTIES AROUND THE CITY, SUCH AS THE ROSE FURNITURE STORE AND THE PROPERTY ON CRAWFORD ST. THAT VIVIAN BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION? WHY DID THEY GIVE MMF $65,000 FOR PROPERTY ACQUISITION IF THE INTENT WAS TO GET OUT OF THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS? WHAT MULLIGAN SAID AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING ARE NOT THE SAME THINGS. WHAT ABOUT DUNCAN OIL, OFFICE OUTFITTERS, THE CABINET SHOP FIASCO ON CENTRAL? ALL CITY PROPERTY NOW, RIGHT? JUST SITTING THERE WITH LITTLE TO NO VALUE. WE WERE TOLD THE CITY WAS GETTING OUT OF THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS A DECADE OR SO AGO. THEY'RE STILL IN IT. |
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409
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
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From MJ:
City reviewing contract to land Cincy StateBy Michael D. Pitman, Staff Writer 10:13 PM Tuesday, February 21, 2012 MIDDLETOWN — The city is ready to sell one of the buildings it purchased for a downtown Cincinnati State Technical & Community College campus — and recoup almost half of what it invested. The city staff is reviewing a draft contract with Higher Education Partners, the developer of the proposed Cincinnati State project. The contract calls for the sale of the former CG&E building at 1 N. Main St. for $202,000. The city had invested roughly $450,000 in the former CG&E building, as well as former Bank One, First National Bank and Masonic Lodge buildings, and the former Manchester Inn & Conference Center. Greg Pratt, the city-contracted consultant on the Cincinnati State project, said the deal “basically makes the taxpayer whole for what they have invested in the (former) CG&E building.” He said this “marks the beginning of the end” of the first phase of the Cincinnati State project. The draft contract with HEP also calls for the city to donate the former city senior center at Verity and Columbia parkways, adjacent to the Middletown City Building on Donham Plaza. The senior center was built in 1978 with funding from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development and has community development block grant restrictions. Law Director Les Landen said a community college is an approved use for the building. “Together these two buildings will encompass the initial campus of Cincinnati State here in Middletown,” Pratt said. “We know that Cincinnati State is actively working on its programming and marketing this facility.” Cincinnati State officials could not be reached Tuesday for comment, but the school is actively looking to hire a grass roots marketing professional for the Middletown campus. School officials have said they plan to open the campus this fall. Mayor Larry Mulligan said it has taken a while to get this first phase of the Cincinnati State project to where it is today. “This opens the possibility for new programs offered for education,” he said of the contract, which is expected to be approved in principle on March 6 and later signed by City Manager Judy Gilleland. It also, Mulligan said, opens up the possibility “for long-term revitalization downtown.” The draft contract calls for the interior demolition and construction of the CG&E building and the senior center to start by May 1 and be completed by June 1, 2014. Until the work is done, HEP will take out a performance bond to ensure the project is completed, Landen said. If the contract is breached, the city will step in to ensure the work is completed, he said. Provided no significant changes are made, Gilleland will sign the contract. But two things must happen first: • The developer must conduct an environmental study on the senior center. Pratt said there are no known issues, but a study doesn’t exist. • Cincinnati State and HEP officials must sign their contract first. Pratt anticipates that will be in the next few days. But the Ohio Attorney General’s Office is still reviewing the contract, spokesman Lisa Hackley said Tuesday. Cincinnati State’s board of trustees approved its contract with HEP in November, and does not need further action — unless there are significant changes — for it to be signed by President Dr. O’dell Owens. Mulligan said the city’s investment in downtown buildings has given it the ability to control its “destiny” in key areas of downtown. But he said Tuesday that this contract will be the start of the city “getting out of the property-ownership business and it brings in the private sector for those buildings for development.” The contract allows the HEP to take out a Section 108 Loan of up to $1 million, which is a HUD-sponsored loan used to spur various rehabilitation projects, including economic development and public facilities rehabilitation. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Good point Middletown29. You are correct. Now, answer why Middletown spent $450,000 on four speculation buildings with the hope that CS would show up, WITHOUT a signed committed contract and now must sit on at least two of the four buildings purchased without knowing if they will ever find a tenant, buyer or user? Furthermore, we still don't know if this is going to fly because the ruling still hasn't been made concerning HEP, has it? Again, I ask you, if you were making the decision, would you have stuck your neck out, prematurely purchasing property, like the city did, without some signed, legal commitments? Would you have used that same thinking using your personal money on a mortgage or car loan? Don't believe anyone would, would they? |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Bill No, don't go to the PAC. Not my type of place nor people who would frequent it. Personally didn't like taxpayer money used to finance it's existence for the benefit of a few, select people in town. With the S. Main St. crap going on, doing things for a few, select group of individuals seems to be the theme of the city leaders. Actually opinions rather than facts. Example....you state you think PAC has passed the eyeball test for activity. Your opinion. I believe PAC has a long way to go before it can justify it's existence. We're probably going to see that type of breakout in opinion if we ask more people. Success or not- not going to reach a universal opinion either way I would imagine. Is the PAC open all week or just on selected days? Would you say the PAC attracts mainstream Middletown or those in the artzy/special occasion groups in the area which account for less than 10-15% of this town's population? With a lack of appeal to the majority, it is not exactly a destination that would be a catalyst for growing the downtown, is it? IMO, what PAC offers is not what attracts most of Middletown. A new restaurant attraction? Wonder if this new eating place will last longer than Quiznos or the wine place did. So far, history has not been kind to any eating establishments succeeding around the PAC. Time will answer this for all of us. |
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Bill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Vet, I wouldn't be so sure of your "facts" regarding PAC being a bust. Have you been to a First Friday? Have you seen all the events being held in the facility? It seems to me that PAC has passed the eyeball test as far as activity. But none of us know the projections vs. actual revenue, so who knows for sure. And whether that translates to other activity downtown, I don't know. Rumor has it that another eating establishment will be opening up nearby.
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Middletown29
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Read the info Vet HEP via payments from CS will repay the loan.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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hopefully a good thing, mtown.
sincerely hope that it plays out well
still--why should citizens be on the hook for repaying any loan to put this together?
hep and C St. are the ones with by far the most to gain
mu-m is much larger, however "dorm rooms", book stores(remember?), coffee shops, restaurants never developed in that area. actually everything in that approx.area has shut down vacant.
can C St. create more?
I hope so!
I am confused as to how buying seriously deteriorated properties in the former downtown area will solve anything, without a strong universally endorsed plan that offers a + for everyone.
I can't see it from this admin/council. They don't seem collectively to be organized, sharp or visionary to the degree of getting it right
They only seem interested in screwing the majority of the citizens(and each other maybe?) for the gain of the usual few
with the BOA on the verge of springing a huge tax levy on us, how can city pile it on at the same time?
we need people/businesses that can survive and contribute
we have too many now that can't/don't pay anything
how will Council/admin work with the schools?
anyone remember what used to be Towne Mall?
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Middletown29, how will the loan be repaid from a city that is cash strapped and generating operating revenue from taxes, fed loans and accepting Section 8 funds while ruining the city to do so? From what fund will the city pay these loans? There's no money to fix the streets and sewers. No money to keep a police and fire force intact. No money to take care of the parks. But there is money to pay the loans off? Where are they going to get the money? Bleeding the people dry is the usual method. The city has purchased property (to the tune of $450,000 and beyond) and spent money it could ill afford to spend on speculation that CS will come and prosper. They did this without a firm, signed commitment from the college. Would you have taken out a loan for a house on speculation, a handshake and without a signed deal? How about a car loan? Would you commit without knowing specifics like the city did? CS may come to the city, pending outcome of the current decision to allow it, but the curriculum and specifics still have yet to be defined. They won't even use all of the buildings the city purchased and some will sit idle deteriorating with no user in sight. When the smoke has cleared, and we all know how the CS deal pans out, city leaders will either come out of this smelling like a rose, or they will be crucified for their incredible stupidity. We are all waiting.....just like the PAC deal, which hasn't been the ball of fire they had hoped it would be. As of today, it has been a waste of money as to cost versus usage and attracting people to the downtown. This city has a habit of making bad decisions and instituting bad ideas at sizable costs in it's history. CS and the PAC may be two more to add to the failure list. We shall see. |
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Middletown29
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Vivian and Pacman
The CDBG funds are a loan. A loan that will be repaid. A loan that does not reduce or impact on the City's annual allocation of CDBG funds. A loan to build educational opportunity in our community. How is this a bad thing? Tell me all you M-USA pundits. |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Vivian,
Is this going to tie up all or a portion of our CDGB funds for the next 6 years?
I guess we can just throw gravel in the pot holes... Pacman |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Gentlemen |
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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Mr. P,
You forget that ALL of Middletown is historic in the same way that all of Middletown is a slum!!! Make up some numbers, pass a few rules and poof!!! Will this mean that all CDBG funds will have to be escrowed until HEP pays off the loans? How are they going to demolish any more buildings? Lose $50k per house rehabbed? Will the city have to sue HEP if they walk away without paying the loan or will the taxpayers be on the hook for the loan? I've said it before, this is a big investment risk for the city, it had better work or this city will be in worse shape than it is now!!! |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Well, I guess that will be one more excuse for NOT using
CBDG funds for re-paving our streets (unless, of course, the streets happen to
be downtowne or in a historic district). |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Just keeps gettin' better and better Vivian. Looks like there is no end to the fed money sources for this project. Section 108 is a new kid on the block isn't it?
"Current plans call for HEP to repay the loan over a 6 years period" So, the city is responsible for the loan payments if HEP defaults? "Section 108 loans are not risk-free, however local governments borrowing funds guaranteed by Section 108 must pledge their current and future CDBG allocations to cover the loan amount as security for the loan: Looks like the city must put up any current/future CDBG funds to cover the loan amount as security if HEP doesn't come through, right? If that's true, they can't use the current CDBG funds as they will have to hold them as loan security. If some of the CDBG funds are being used, how do you hold them for security and still use them for current expenditures? Am I reading this correctly? Heck of a risk for the city isn't it? |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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City Manager’s Weekly Briefing February 13, 2012 Cincinnati State Project to Utilize Section 108 Loan GuaranteesAs the final details are being completed to move the Cincinnati State project from concept to construction, the developer, Higher Education Partners ("HEP"), will be utilizing a number of financing sources including HUD’s Section 108 program to pay for purchase and renovation of the buildings to be used in the new campus. Current plans call for HEP to repay the loan over a 6 year period. Section 108 is a loan guarantee provision of the Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) program. Section 108 provides communities with a source of financing for economic development, housing rehabilitation, public facilities, and large-scale physical development projects. This makes it one of the most potent and important public investment tools that HUD offers to local governments. It allows them to transform a small portion of their CDBG funds into federally guaranteed loans large enough to pursue physical and economic revitalization projects. Such public investment is often needed to inspire private economic activity, providing the initial resources or simply the confidence that private firms and individuals may need to invest in distressed areas. Section 108 loans are not risk-free, however; local governments borrowing funds guaranteed by Section 108 must pledge their current and future CDBG allocations to cover the loan amount as security for the loan. As the agreements come together between Cincinnati State and HEP and between HEP and the City of Middletown, City staff will submit for Council’s consideration an application for Section 108 financing. As with other CDBG documents, this process will require a public hearing and a 30 day public comment period before coming to Council for legislative action. The final dollar amount has not been determined at this time, and the individual agreements, the amount requested by HEP, and all other details of this project will be brought forward as part of the public hearing and public comment process before Council votes on the matter. |
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