Home | Yearly News Archive | Advertisers | Blog | Contact Us |
|
Thursday, May 2, 2024 |
|
Why The City of Middletown Tax Levy MUST FAIL! |
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Author | |
crazycatcher
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Sep 06 2011 Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: Aug 08 2012 at 7:22am |
more than you can possibly imagine Mr. Presta. So our city government has given various arts organizations hundreds of thousands of dollars? Perhaps I just need my mind refreshed other than the Pendelton Art Center what arts organizations have benefited from the city?
|
|
VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
2600 voters from a city of 48,000 people. Very frustrating to see. Wondering how many of the 2600 represented the friends of city hall? AJ and the gang must be giddy with delight as old AJ works toward his days after council and his longing to work side by side with his union buddies with the job he hopes to get in return for his union support.
Now, we can sit back and see what transpires in two years when the grant money runs out and they start the layoffs again. Will the average Middletonian even notice? Will they care? Apparently, it didn't matter to people in this town when they lied to us on the first levy and laid people off despite the promise of no layoffs. The levy supporters must admire the art of lying and deceit. The wrath is not directed toward the police, medics and firefighters as much as it is on the city leaders and council and their deceit and lies with regard to telling the truth from day one about the money intentions for this levy. As long as the majority of people lay on the couch, watching reality TV, and don't bother to vote against the wishes of the people who would ruin this town, the bad guys will get their way. If you keep giving them money, they will continue to run the same game on the people. Sad to see. How in the hell do you combat apathy? How bad does it have to get before the apathetic people take notice? |
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The firefighters had six jobs cut this year, the last year of the present five-year 0.25% public safety payroll tax. In return for their assistance in passing this permanent levy, the firefighters will get those six jobs back for only two years, then the city will cut those six positions (and likely more). This is assuming that the State of Ohio does NOT cut funds to municipalities any further during those two years.
|
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Question for Crazycatcher:
Have you followed city government at all during the last fourteen years???
|
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
crazycatcher
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Sep 06 2011 Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Question for Mr. Presta.
Mr. Presta since you seem to have your finger on the pulse of the city in your above comment you state, "They subsidize arts right and left." I am curious to learn who is they? And what arts have they subsidized from the right to the left?
|
|
Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It is a fore gone conclusion that if this levy passes, they will have to cut firefighters or increase the levy in the 2nd or 3rd yrs if they are gven the grant of approxiametly $1M. Once the $1M is spent who is going to pick up the bill?
Pacman |
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yet they were licking their chops to pay more every month
for electricity for decorative lamps for South Main. They subsidize arts right and left. They buy buildings for all of their friends. They give thousands to MMF. Hundreds of thousands for “enhanced gateways”. A hundred grand for a couple more brick pillars for the “Welcome
to Middletown” sign. But they had to CUT PUBLIC SAFETY!!! And you think that they won’t do it again???? |
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Don’t believe me??? They have the 0.25% right now!!! How did they balance the 2012 budget??? They cut PUBLIC SAFETY!!! What more proof do you need??? |
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Right you are, Mr. Saunders!!! And this administration has made it perfectly clear that
they don’t have ANYWHERE to go except to public safety to re-balance the budget
while saving their precious arts and historic districts. They will cut our police and fire forces in a heartbeat (no
pun intended). |
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
Richard Saunders
MUSA Resident Joined: Jun 30 2010 Status: Offline Points: 232 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Good point. And who doesn't think that the State will be reducing payments to municipalities again in the near future?
|
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The promises made to promote passage of the public safety
tax five years ago have not been kept.
We are told this is because the State of Ohio reduced payments to cities
and ruined their budgets. Here’s a fair question: Does this mean if the state reduces some payment again,
this administration will balance the budget by reducing public safety forces as
they did this time??? Isn’t it likely this administration will use any other similar excuse (sales taxes went down; EPA says we have to fix the sewers; the bike path got washed out and must be repaired; expenses on mothballed Cinci State building were higher than expected; our self-insured medical expenses were higher than anticipated; Pendelton needs a bail-out; the fake gas light electric bill went up; someone successfully sued the city for gross negligence; a pothole in front of the mayor’s house must be repaired; one of our water towers collapsed due to lack of maintenance; council decides we need more water features; etc, etc, ad nausem) to divert funds from this NEVERENDING tax in the same way??? |
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
eastsider
MUSA Immigrant Joined: May 22 2012 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
And actually to add to this.. Do some research on Sycamore Twp Hamilton county.. They accepted RFP's to contract out ems, fire or both together and found out it wasn't cheaper! Since have came to an agreement with firefighters and called back employees
|
|
eastsider
MUSA Immigrant Joined: May 22 2012 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
In doing some looking around, I can't name one area department that outsources ems other than Franklin if you call that outsourcing. And with that, they're trying to combine fire/ems because it's a more cost effective use of personnel as most firemen are certified in both so why pay 2 people instead of one. Also, municipalities bill for ems and although it's not enough to pay for the "provider", it does supplement.
|
|
spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
OK--citizens and/or public safety personel tell me the pros and cons of this thinking:
Why not out-source EMS service? Most area communities do just that, and it is the most expensive part of the public safety money machine. Police take care of crime Fire takes care of fires |
|
rngrmed
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 06 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 309 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I wonder what is in it for the IAM. I don't buy they are doing what is best for the City. I do know that someone from the IAM is going around and putting signs in the strip of grass next to the street, which I thought was illegal. They are doing this without the permission of their members, I thought this was illegal too.
|
|
Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Public safety levy supporters
make final plea for voters
Staff writer MIDDLETOWN — Middletown voters will decide in
just over a week if city leaders will need to make more tough public safety
cuts later this year. On Aug. 7, voters will be asked
in a special election to approve a 0.25 percent income tax levy that will raise
money to help pay for police and fire department operations. In order to balance the 2012
budget, the city made $3.7 million in cuts, with the lion’s share being cut
from public safety. Those cuts resulted in eliminating 16 police and fire
positions, and that resulted in five firefighters losing their jobs. The rest
were just vacant openings. The income tax public safety
levy, if approved, would replace the current levy that expires on Dec. 31.
However, there will be one difference —the proposed tax levy replacement would
be a permanent levy. The levy provides a $2.9 million
supplement to the collective $21 million police and fire budgets. A taxpayer who earns $50,000
annually will continue to pay $125 a year, or just under $10.50 a month. If the levy passes, the chiefs of
both the police and fire departments say there will be no reduction in
services. However, if it fails, jobs will be cut. “Our budget is cut so thin now,
we’ve trimmed everything out of it that we could trim,” said police Chief David
VanArsdale. “We have no place to go but for personnel, and that’s going to mean
bodies.” Most of the city has been
canvassed since the campaign officially kicked off last month. Potential
special election voters have also been called and hundreds of pro-levy signs
have been placed around the city. “I think with people having the
knowledge that there will be no reduction in services — that we’ll at least
maintain the services — that people will be supportive of the levy,” said
Harvey Poff, levy campaign chairman. “We’ve gone door-to-door, we’ve
put up the signs and talked with folks individually. We’re not asking for
anything other than a continuance of what we have.” The need to replace the expiring
levy was always planned, but City Council had debated if the levy should have a
sunset or be permanent. The city had a number of focus group discussions, said
Fire Chief Steve Botts, and results from those discussions indicated the
community would support the levy. “I’m hopeful (the levy passes)
because … it will protect our current resources and continue to deliver needed
services to the community,” he said. “I don’t want to see our
resources reduced,” said Botts, who added that the fire department’s response
times have already increased because of the recent personnel reduction and the
loss of a fire truck. He said if more cuts are made, he would be “very
concerned.” The fire chief said if the levy
does pass, the city can then accept a $1 million federal Staffing for Adequate
Fire and VanArsdale said if the police
department looses any more officers, “it’s going to mean a change in the way we
do business, what calls we respond t0 and what calls we follow up on.” Poff said the hope is a Plan B or
C — asking voters again in November or making cuts — won’t be needed. “We trust that the person who
goes to the poll, that they analyze what these issues are, what the
ramifications are and the what the benefits are, and that it’s not going to
cost any more money than what they pay now,” Poff said. If the levy fails in August and
City Council decides to ask voters to reconsider it in November, the levy will
be on the same ballot as the five-year, 1-mill levy request for the Middletown
Area Senior Citizens, which would pay down its mortgage for the senior center.
Stop and think before you vote.
The income tax public safety levy, if approved, would replace the current levy that expires on Dec. 31. However, there will be one difference —the proposed tax levy replacement would be a permanent levy. No Levy for Public Safety can ever be a permanent levy. At the rate that Police and Fire receive raises & benefits it is mathematically impossible for this levy to be permanenty set at 0.25%. The fire chief said if the levy does pass, the city can then accept a $1 million federal Staffing for Adequate Fire and Can anyone see what makes you go hmmm with this assumption??? Who the hell is going to pay for these Firefighters after the first two yrs. If the grant funds will last that long. This makes it all the more probable that there will be an increase in this levy in the 2nd or 3rd yr if we are lucky. PACMAN |
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
As I've driven around town lately, I've noticed that a large number of the "pro safety tax" signs are illegally placed. Of course I have no idea who placed all of these signs, but one would think that the pro-levy committee, being a quasi-official organization should have instructed those placing the signs on the allowable parameters for placement.
Also, during past campaigns the City Manager has been quick to have Public Works employees scour the city to remove and confiscate any illegally placed signs, at least those of non-MMF-endorsed candidates. I wonder why the same is not the case with these signs.
|
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Just watched a segment on the Channel 5 news about the Cincy firefighters being awarded millions for training, recruiting, hiring and other fire department needs. This grant came through the Homeland Security Department.
Now, if the Cincinnati fire folks can get money for their operations this way, what is preventing Middletown fire from applying for operations money in the same manner? Police too. No need for a safety levy if that were to happen, right? |
|
arwendt
MUSA Official Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'll second that. |
|
“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
|
|
acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Pacman, as usual, you bring forward an excellent pt, and one I am total agreement. I do think this 1.75% is temporary. It will embolden the city, and they will raise it to 2.0 shortly. Hamilton is 2.0%, so the city will think since they have many whom live in Middletown and work in Hamilton, Monroe, and Trenton, there won't be voter discontent if it is raised. In my mind (sorry for redundancy), this is why the orchestration of city council came about shortly after the previous election.
As business growth has declined, certainly the Atrium has not produced the type and number of jobs forecast, and the loss of AK Steel executives, they will have to have another tax. Middletown's house values won't rise for years, there are simply too many, raising surplus capacity, to stabilize within 10 years. In 25 years, I have had an appraisal done every 5 years. At best, the market in Middletown has not kept up with inflation. Therefore, this levy will only serve to assure them they can keep coming back to the well repeatedly, with only positive consequence. And, there will be the school levy next, the Senior Citizen hit in November, and all these combined, drives down market interest in BOTH residential and commercial property and development. That is the vicious cycle you refer, all predicated upon a higher tax rate. |
|
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
|
|
Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Correct me if I am wrong, But they claim that this 2.9M - .25% permanent tax increase will fund approx. 27 firefighters/police officers.
5 yrs ago they instituted a .25% tax increase on temporary basis and yet after 4 yrs they had to lay off a number of firefighters. It was claimed originally that there would be no reduction in manpower. Now if the temporary tax increase only last 4 yrs before lay offs started, what makes anyone think that this permanent tax increase will last more than 3 or 4 yrs. With Police/fire averaging 2-3% a yr in raises and the rest of us getting 0-1% a yr how long will it take before this tax is raised again. If the first go around only lasted it 4 yrs, I would venture a guess that after a few yrs it would be due to be increased again. With public safety unions controling the bulk of the general fund, this is a vicious circle that will eventually drive Middletown into bankruptcy. Maybe it is better to go into back bankruptcy now and re-negotiate public safety contracts and see if we can get out of the HUD secion 8 contract and hire and elect more forward thinking leaders. The current leaders seem to be stuck in a rut and are treading water rather than steering the ship. Am I correct or above assumption? Pacman |
|
acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Democracy is great.
|
|
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
|
|
Paul Nagy
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Regarding the public safety levy, Neil Barille who understands the workings of the city probably better than most on this forum makes some very poignant observations that should not be ignored. “Eastsider, the misuse of Public Safety funds referenced above refers to the fact that the city took the .25% increase last time and rather than dedicating it solely for PS just ran it through the general fund and used as a piggy bank for running the city. Plus some police and fire were laid off anyway. Don't think of this farce as a PS levy, think of it simply as a 5 year old tax increase that is now being made permanent. That is all it is. As for all these sheep who think having a few more cops around will solve this crime issue in town -- wake up. If you're worried about break-ins, do you think there will be an officer on foot patrol in your neighborhood deterring all these break ins? What exactly will a few extra cops do --- investigate the crime after the fact, right? As acclaro said, this is nothing more than saving city head count. “ Neil Barille Add to that the serious question posed by Spiderjohn who also understand the workings of the city in depth and we are given an interesting dilemma. “very strange questions and direction, Mr.Goose
so--let me throw one back at you: do you see passage or failing of either up-coming levy as having great impact in turning around the direction of our city's future? Are these issues at the core of our situation?” Spiderjohn In my mind these statements pose the question, How do we make this levy election impact the direction of our city’s future? Well, I’d like to ask Mr. Klug and all other city union members to consider a couple of possible scenarios. It is being said that in the next ten years 60 % of all municipalities in the United States will be going into bankruptcy. I thought the discussion on municipal bankruptcy was quite expedient and wish it would go on a bit more. Also, I read the other day that Scranton, Pennsylvania had to start paying their public employees minimum wage. Now those are scary thoughts. I’m interested in making sure that in the future our city has adequate public safety personnel. When I have brought up the subject in the past both city officials and fire and police employees chose not to think about the future but make certain that they could get what they could right now. It seems to me that in our current national predicament that is very short-sighted. Mr. Klug and Mr. Harvey its time for you to serve your members better by working for their future as well as their present. In one city a union official was quoted as saying, “We’ll get what we can now and let the union officials in the future worry about the problem.” Tell their wives and children that and see the reaction you get. How about using this levy to make a great impact and change the direction of the city and protect your interests for years down the road? Why not all of us vote against this levy and defeat it. Then, let us immediately turn around and negotiate a new levy with a time limit and other conditions, such as; taking public safety funds out of the General Fund permanently and having a permanent public safety account that can’t be used for any other purpose or account. Divide the Account into as many different departments as necessary – the Police Department, the Fire Department and the Emergency Services Department. Get it in writing that those funds are to be transparent at all times. There may be other points to be negotiated but these give you the idea. If the departments will vote with the 27% of citizens that voted for me in the last election and then the remainder of citizens doing the same, this should provide a mandate to change the direction of the city and guarantee our public servants what they need to do the job. We should do the same with the seniors, infrastructure and economic development. Have you got the vision and the courage to make meaningful change? Paul Nagy |
|
Paul Nagy
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It has been interesting to observe this discussion on the public service levy and the levy for the Senior Center. It was pretty academic until Mr. Klug got personal and referred to Acclaro as telling lies, in effect calling him a liar. Well, Mr. Klug, Acclaro is guilty at times of overstatement, on a couple of occasions had his facts wrong and on a couple of other occasions he was just wrong but most of the time he is well informed and adds a great deal of information to any of these discussions. However, I have never known of him to intentionally lie or misrepresent anything. There is a lot of misrepresentation on these issues and some downright lying but it is from the city. Before I address them let me be plain as to my great support for our police, fire and EMS departments. They are all very professional and serve our city as good as any departments in the country. All those who know me understand my strong feelings in this regard. The same goes for the Senior Center. I’m convinced that Ms. Munafo could turn the center around except for the fact that the city is forcing her to take the political approach in favor of their special interests rather than in the interests of seniors and the center. Why doesn’t the city just come forth and rectify the damage they did in the sale and building of the new center and support Ms. Munafo the right way? I received one of the mailers requesting a vote for Issue 2 on August the 7th. It was filled with misrepresentations (lies) Mr. Klug. Misrepresentation: “Currently, the 2.9 M pays for 27 firefighters and police officers collectively.” Mr. Klug, that comes to $107,407.40 per employee. That isn’t true is it? Misrepresentation: “This levy will keep your community much safer!” The levy is paying this money now until December 31st. Why aren’t we as safe now with the same money as we will be in the future if the levy passes? You and I both know that the safety of our community is based on the priorities of the city and of the police department. Some have suggested on this blog the efficacy of a zero tolerance policy. That is not likely to happen in Middletown because of greed and the lack of vision and foresight for the city. I’ve heard it said that we need the crime because of the revenue it produces. How shallow that kind of thinking is. Others have said its because of Section 8 renters and people in the lower income level that bring the increase of crime. Not necessarily. There are thousands of “poor folks” who are honest, God fearing people who have never committed any crimes. It will take new priorities and different police methods to make our community safer. Misrepresentation: “Vote for Issue 2 will NOT increase taxes”. The last tax was for five (5) years. This tax is proposed as a PERMANENT TAX. Please don’t insult our intelligence. Of course this is a tax increase. If I paid you a thousand dollars for five years and then said I’d pay you a thousand dollars forever would you be getting an increase? Of course you would. Mr. Klug, these misrepresentations (lies) are made by our city council and administration. When political officials make misrepresentations or lie that is corruption. Our city government has been corrupt for many years. Its time to change that. We can pay our public safety employees adequately without all of the corruption. I shall address that further in another blog and I shall be very interested in your response to what I’m going to be recommending. I know that you and I are on the same side of this issue but disagree on the tactics to get where we want and need to be. Thank you. Paul Nagy
|
|
VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
This all sounds good....what Dixon has to say here. Occasionally, we hear where a politician, at any level, attempts to "get in touch" with the voter and show the voter that they are "on your side" in understanding your day to day trials and tribulations. None of them mean what they say. They can't possibly identify with you because none live in your weight class in life and have no clue what the middle class working stiffs go through on budgets, struggles with costs of living nor life's daily problems......nor do they care.......EXCEPT at voting time when they ask for your support, even though most of us have nothing in common with the level of people who grow politicians. I take what all politicians say with a grain of salt and trust them about as far as I can throw them. I'm sure there are many in this camp. The type of personality needed to blend in with the political arena nowadays, must be underhanded, close to criminal element material and have the backroom connections to conduct business away from the public eye. Unfortunately, these types of people are the only game in town come voting time. I'm beginning to think it may be better not to vote at all???? As a side note, drove through the Oaks (with permission of course), as I do everyday, on the way to work. Saw maybe 4 Safety Levy signs in front yards. There is one on my block. If "signs in front yards" are any indication of support for the Safety Levy, it certainly doesn't appear to be overwhelming in nature. If it does pass, it will be because the small number of core supporters outnumbered the "discontent crowd" who, once again, didn't bother to register to vote, or who stayed at home, too lazy to go punch at few buttons at the polling places. Amazing how a small contingent of this community always gets their way because the rest of us, who outnumber them 10:1, won't make the effort. None of this nonsense would be happening if the lazy ass-- would go vote against the ruling class of this town. |
|
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.
Copyright ©2024 MiddletownUSA.com | Privacy Statement | Terms of Use | Site by Xponex Media | Advertising Information |