Middletown Ohio


Find us on
 Google+ and Facebook


 

Home | Yearly News Archive | Advertisers | Blog | Contact Us
Thursday, May 2, 2024
FORUM CITY SCHOOLS COMMUNITY
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Help Replace One of Ohio's Oldest Schools?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Help Replace One of Ohio's Oldest Schools?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 12>
Author
 Rating: Topic Rating: 1 Votes, Average 5.00  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Iron Man View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: Sep 25 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 112
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Iron Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by Marcia Andrew Marcia Andrew wrote:

The rub is that none of the people who say, "do not tear down Vail," have come forward with any kind of plan to operate and maintain the building


That's the school boards job isn't it? Wacko
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 10:16pm
A full rebuttal to follow, but:

FAST FACTS- Initial Plan; Renovation, not Build; Initial cost- $ 71 MM, not $ 156 MM
Initial Plan- 2000; No deviation in 14 years other than build new, add high % of LFI

CPI (Inflation), 2000 to present annualized: 4.2%

Middletown Average Property Increase Until 2008 (Housing Collapse) ; 2.67%

Southwestern Ohio; 8.75%

Academic Performance- Continuous Improvement, a polite way of saying, 'you have much room for improvement and are near failing.'

HISTORY

Wednesday, March 21, 2001

Schools remove fund issue


Middletown plan clashes with state's

By Sue Kiesewetter
Enquirer Contributor

        MIDDLETOWN — The Middletown school board has removed a funding issue from the May 8 ballot because of the board's differences with a preliminary master plan prepared by the Ohio School Facilities Commission.

        The board voted 4-0 Tuesday to cancel the 4.1-mill combination issue that would have provided a $30 million bond issue, and a permanent improvement levy that would raise $18.5 million over 10 years. The money was to have been used in a $71 million plan that called for renovating and repairing all the schools in the district over several years.

        In a March 9 meeting with school officials, the commission unveiled a $118 million proposal that calls for the closing of all elementary schools except Amanda. Those 11 schools would be replaced with five new buildings under the state's plan, said Edmund Pokora, treasurer for Middletown schools.

        Founded in 1997, the commission provides funds for districts to make repairs to schools or rebuild them based on a formula that takes into consideration residents' income, enrollment and property values. Under the formula, Middletown would be eligible for money in 2009-2011.

        “Their plan is more expensive and takes away neighborhood schools,” said board member John Venturella. “It closes some buildings and consolidates others.”

        Removing the issue from the ballot was done to give school officials time to negotiate with the commission on a final plan. Mr. Pokora estimated the state would pay 26 percent of the costs, and the district would pay 74 percent.

        Over the past two years the community has said it wants to keep smaller, neighborhood schools, said Mark Frazer, president of the school board. But under state guidelines, the cost to renovate cannot exceed 66 percent of the cost to rebuild, and enrollment has to be 350 or more.

        “It's not that one plan is better than the other, but that one does more,” Mr. Pokora said. “If we want their money, we have to follow their (guidelines).”

        The district has two years to negotiate with the commission, Mr. Pokora said.

        “In short, much work needs to be done to align the commission's preliminary plan with our locally developed facilities plan that is based on community input and the retention of neighborhood schools,” Mr. Pokora said.

        Renewal of Middletown's portion of a $4.9 million operating levy, approved in 1995 and renewed in 1998 when Monroe was part of the district, will remain on the ballot, Mr. Pokora said. Now that Monroe is a separate district, Middletown voters are being asked to renew its share - 4.35 mills, which would bring in about $4 million.

       



   

'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jan 09 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 6:08pm
Many posters have argued a common point, that the new elementary schools have not produced the promised results, which are alleged to be better academic results, increased enrollment, increased property values. 
 
First, I don't recall that anyone promised or guaranteed those results from new school buildings.  I don't believe that anyone knowledgeable in public education would guarantee anything like that, because so many factors beyond the control of the school district influence academic results, enrollment levels, property values. 
 
Whether these promises were made or just internalized by some, here is what did happen:
 
Six new elementary schools were built and two were fully renovated, on time and within budget.
 
The new elementary buildings are very energy efficient and cost a dramatically lower cost per square foot for utilities than the older buildings, even though they all have central air conditioning.  About a year ago there was a report to the board that showed that the district had already saved over $1 million in energy costs in just the few years the new buildings have been operating.  They are "Energy Star" rated.
 
Improved academic results? Yes. In 2003-04, the last year before the first bond passed, MCSD was designated in Academic Watch.  It moved up to Continuous Improvement, and for the past 5 years in a row its Performance Index (measures overall test results of all students) has improved each year.  In 2004 the Performance Index was 79.6; Last year it was 88.5.
 
For the last three years in a row, MCSD has earned Value Added Plus (designated as an "A" with new characterizations this past year) on the Value Added Growth score that measures whether students are learning more than, less than, or equal to a year's growth in a year.  MCSD ranked 21st highest out of 824 districts in the state for the level of its Value Added Growth.
 
Increase in enrollment? No. Overall, K-12, there has been about a 9% decline in number of students.  There was also a drop in the population of Middletown as measured in the 2010 census, so some macro factors at work there as well.
 
However, if you look at the enrollment by grade level, you will see that K-5 averages around 500- 600 students per grade.  It varies some year to year and grade to grade.  But there is a noticeable drop at the middle school grades, 6, 7 and 8, into the low 400's.  Then, it jumps back up to the 500's for 9th grade.
 
Increased property values? No.  But Middletown did experience, with the rest of the nation, the greatest economic recession since the Great Depression.  Which in my opinion makes any cause/effect analysis between the schools and property values during that time period difficult, if not impossible.
 
And to be clear, I am not promising that a new middle school and renovated high school would, taken in isolation, improve test scores, increase enrollment, or increase property values.  But I do think we have a much better chance getting to those results with modern efficient secure school buildings, than with the ones we have now.  I wonder how many of you who think otherwise have spent any time in the new buildings in Mason, Lakota, Edgewood, Monroe, Madison?  Fairfield has its own levy on the ballot to replace old with new, and Franklin wants to but its voters rejected it.
 
Back to Top
Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jan 09 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 5:30pm
Riveter, the fundraisers to raise money for the campaign literature and signs have raised a few thousand dollars total.  You are not going to raise the money to fix the middle school with bake sales. See, now you have given me a laugh.
 
Ms. Moon, there have been discussions with some entities interested in the Verity building.  Until the bond issue is passed, or the middle school situation otherwise resolved, the district's long-term needs for the building cannot be finally determined. 
Back to Top
Vivian Moon View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council


Joined: May 16 2008
Location: Middletown, Ohi
Status: Offline
Points: 4187
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 4:49pm
Marcia Andrews
Why hasn't Verity School, that has sat empty for the past three years been placed on the market to sale?

Back to Top
RRiveter View Drop Down
MUSA Immigrant
MUSA Immigrant


Joined: Apr 09 2014
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RRiveter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 4:32pm
ch1moore/BOE

The Sorg Mansion & Opera House have been vacant for YEARS...

Looks like they have found people to help revive amongst other monies.

And maybe sentiment is a good way to explain it. And if that's how the "grass roots" movement wants to strategize... SO BE IT!!! Glad to know you also read the paper!

Moving to the EAST END does nothing but drive people away from the downtown area that everyone has "raved" about reviving.

EXAMPLE: We knocked down the City Centre Mall to invite new business, have new store fronts and paid for it.

Immediately following that bright idea, Middletown subsidized WAL-MART to come into town... out by the HIGHWAY!!

GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND WE STILL HAVE EMPTY STORE FRONTS DOWN THERE!

Can't compete with that! Which brings us to giving more money to knock down Vail, putting another school on MHS campus (which makes NO sense)... Leaving the "downtown" area a sad, sorry place.

The BOE and the people who run this town are their own worst enemy. Putting the cart before the horse is an understatement.

You've come up with all of these fundraising ideas for your campaign, why don't you try doing that to save the building.


RRiveter
Back to Top
Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jan 09 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 3:41pm
Chmoore, I have heard/read a few people say that.  More who want us to keep using the Vail building as a school.  The rub is that none of the people who say, "do not tear down Vail," have come forward with any kind of plan to operate and maintain the building, let alone renovate it.  It costs a lot of money just to heat and light the building, plus continual repairs.  Who has that kind of money, even if we gave away the building?  Who has the millions needed to renovate it?  The fact of the matter is, there is a surplus of old, empty buildings in Middletown and little to no demand for them.  Sentiment meeting reality.  The school board does not want the building to share the fate of the old Amanda school, which sat and rotted after the school district sold it. 
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 2:53pm
I add....this is a $95,000,000 mulligan, a do-over.

The Atrium was going to be the front door to the city, creating wealth, prosperity. It didn't happen.

So we need a mulligan. Our drive was out of the fairway. Pull that ball out of the bag, its only $95,000,000. and let me place the second building to act as the anchor to the front door, and that is the new middle school near 75.

This mulligan is too costly, and is a violation of tournament play. No winter rules in May.  

'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 2:44pm
chm1....next time you are walking down at Donham Abbey, could you share your message with the council leaders and city manager who has espoused this cry for the past 6-7 years.

Who's on first. No, who is on second, what is on third. When is at home.



'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 2:40pm
This is actually threading a needle that doesn't require the complexity of the aim nor steady hand.

The voters gave the school the green light, with absolutely no matching funds from the state of Ohio, to build new elementary schools. In turn, the MCSD stated if the money was provided, it would generate positive outcomes. There were:

1) Enhanced scores and rank in the performance category.

2.  Increase property values.

3.  Increase enrollment, including open enrollment.

4.  Enhance reputation of district and community.

5. Others et al.

Ten (10) years later, 1-4, not accomplished.

$156,000,000 for no measurable impact, and we are actually talking about economies of scale and scope of make vs buy, vs build new, vs 'add-on' the bedroom addition, metaphorically speaking. Why?

The pursuit and chase of the wrong argument.

Its not about the school need for current students and factual assessment, rather, its a strategy of moving Vail, building new closer to I-75, with the hope, prayer, Hail Mary, more students will enroll. That's it. Its not about the heat fluctuations in Vail, the inability to pick up a wifi signal, or the threat of litigation associated with students having their eye sight altered from 20/20 vision associated with bad lighting. Its about using the same argument again, that was used in Phase 1, that is, build in, closer to 75, and they will come.

They were built, and they did not come. The school system is still CI.

So, we are back to where it started 10 years ago....only, its now if they aren't built, we will lose more students, so we need $95,000,000.

Ms. Andrew, I did offer an alternative to chm1 and you, and the BOE; make use of the statute, when you could have, modified this scope associated with Phase 2, and sought an amount appropriate based upon a realization, a building does not effect academic performance, and placing a middle school right across from the Atrium, would have limited or no effect on MCSD enrollment nor report card.  
         



 
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
chmoore1 View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jan 25 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 2:32pm
Mrs. Andrew/Board of Ed.: It seems that a new battle cry has been given: "Save our history"---it sounds like the "grassroots" effort is saying that, if you promise not to tear down MMS after the new building goes up, they will support the levy. It's more about saving the building than rejecting to building a new MMS. Rather late in the game to analyze this. just 1chmoore.
Back to Top
RRiveter View Drop Down
MUSA Immigrant
MUSA Immigrant


Joined: Apr 09 2014
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RRiveter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 2:11pm
Processor... Here's to the master plan! CHEERS!!!
RRiveter
Back to Top
Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jan 09 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 1:42pm
Riveter and Vet:  Okay, just ignore or reject without contrary data my statements that the school district spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR of Vail from the time of the last major renovation to now.  I'm glad I could give RIveter a laugh. 
Let's assume, just for the sake of discussion, that your conspiracy theories are correct, and pretend that this school board and 45 years of previous school boards (we are talking about dozens of different people) all cooked up a strategy to allow Vail to deteriorate so the school district could persuade taxpayers to pay for a new building.  Here's the point, which Riveter actually recognized at the end of this post -- if the bond levy fails, the Vail building is still 91 years old and will cost 37 Million Dollars to renovate.  $37 Million the school district doesn't have, and without help from the State.  This is not just a problem for the school board.  Personally, it doesn't impact me more than any other taxpayer, as my kids graduate in 2015.  This is a problem for the taxpayers of Middletown.  Where is the money going to come from for a new roof, completely new heating, plumbing and electric, new staircases, new toilets, sinks and stalls, new ceiling tiles, new lockers, etc. etc. etc. at Vail?  Chmoore has asked this question and no one here has answered.  One way or another, Middletown is going to have to pay to fix or replace Vail.  It will cost Middletown taxpayers less to do that if we accept the state money by voting yes on May 6.
 
Finally, the bond levy on the ballot is a yes or no vote.  It is not multiple choice.  You cannot check a box that says, I agree something needs to be done about Vail, but I disagree with the option chosen over 10 years of meetings and community forums by experts and community members -- even though i failed or chose not to participate in that process or to otherwise make my opinion known at a time when it could be considered in the choice of the final option -- so I vote for Option C, G or X.  There was a time for saying you preferred Option C, G or X, and that time has passed.
Back to Top
aflatkey View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Apr 07 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aflatkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2014 at 8:27am
thank you , bumperThumbs Up thank you vietvetSmile thank you acclaroClap and thanks to all other blogers of like mindCool

your opinions are reflective of a truth that can be accomplished. By sharing with all citizens our common concerns in the basic inconsistencies in the current system, you can be proud to know you can bring a significant change in the current system.


Abolish the property tax for the school system!! its unconstitutional !!

Vote no on may 6 if you want to make a change in the current system!!

 

Visit

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Middletown-Ohio-Vote-NO-on-Issue-3/784089358269325?ref=br_tf

 

and like the page to show support of your constitutional freedoms in Ohio.

 
please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion as

Brevity is the soul of wit   

 and with out laughter over the kinks in society anarchy might prevail.

and that's the rest of the story , good day ( Paul Harvey 1946




aflatkey
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2014 at 11:29pm
processor, I fully had intended to be an observer from this point forward, as I have extracted every bit of information possible associated not only with the levy,  but very deep analysis and review of the Ohio Facilities Commission and know every term used in the glossary. I can recite almost every district's ranking, from bottom to top,  I have even gone as far as modeling the sq footage for a building, its cost, put it into a spreadsheet, and compared it to MCSD and its calculation associated with proposed need.

Your analogy, with all respect, is skewed and misdirected. The bottom line is the school district is losing students, residents, and reputation. It pledged at Phase 1, provide funding, results and enrollment were headed north. It failed.
Today, the cost per pupil for online instruction is about $5200. In the MCSD, a student can take a voucher associated with Middletown's poor performance, and attend any number of excellent catholic or private schools. I wish the catholic administration would be hired to run the school district; they'd elevate performance and drive down costs in a year.

Having been raised by college professors, and having a relative that was the first graduate of Miami's School of Education when the school was founded, and also providing schools of higher learning nearly $ 1 Bb in grants over two decades, there is  no one a better nor bigger supporter of education than I. It was drilled in my being from the time I was born forward. Pre- kindergarten, my mother, an English professor, drilled into my soul, never to use a preposition at the end of a sentence, and structural sentence diagramming. I love and pursue education today as vigorously as I did as a young adult,  Succinctly, it is a passion and love which I have to gain knowledge, in many subjects.

With that backdrop, and to my response to you, the reasons for defeating and saying a resounding NO to this levy request are overwhelming and abundant.

These are:

1) No correlation between a building and performance- none. Coleman Study.

2. Performance against economies. $116,000,000. for students not achieving, dropping out at 19%, and didn't improve when new schools were built? Ridiculous.

3. It will open, if passed, the flood-gates for additional taxes, as city leaders and school board personnel, will be emboldened. That alone, is sufficient for a no vote based upon prior history and outcomes.

4. Middletown is in a financial mess, spending down its reserves to 15%, and paying police and fire too much on benefits. Using Maslow's hierarchy needs as a foundation, survival takes precedent over a building giving most whom attend a creature comfort, without impacting achievement.

I could list 6-7 prongs, but why bother, you get the point.

Now to your MTBF, Mean Time between Failure analogy. The building situation throughout Ohio was initiated under then Governor Taft to address some aspects of the Supreme Ct ruling well documented and cited, ergo Randolph. Buildings are supposed to level the playing field. They don't. Money does, If you have lower socio-economic demographics, only money improves that situation. And motivation and hope. If improvement had taken place, and enrollment increased, lets call it statistically significant, the prior buildings had impact, even in light of the other factors in Middletown, I would have been inclined to support. But, it has never manifested itself.

I drove a Volvo wagon and enjoyed receiving membership into the 240 1,000,000 Club. 1939 DC-9's fly out of Hook Field daily. They work and are safe, associated with preventative maintenance. Colleges and universities relish the 1820 or prior buildings, and students reside in them. Your rationale is not compelling associated with following the path laid forth by Taft and the Supreme Court, associated with rich kids being fortunate to live in rich districts, and poor to middle class, living in less advantageous districts. To assert the playing field socio-economically is leveled, with an allowance from the state balancing the system, is misguided and inaccurate. It doesn't balance inequalities.

For the student whom finds Vail unsafe, running from falling tiles, made to be uncomfortable from the lack of air conditioning, or an odor that isn't as nice as a new building, there is a remedy. Have mom or dad put you in a private school, as we did our children, or take a voucher from the state, and use it. Or of course, have your parent home school you, or utilize the state online system.

Of course, the true nature of the levy is false notion by building it, attrition will decline, so these reasoned alternatives aren't what MCSD likes to acknowledge as a logical alternative.

When brake pads wear down, the timing belt needs replaced, the tires need rotated, you spend a percentage of initial expense, to do maintenance. You don't buy a new car, simply because you want the digital GPS, or backup camera. Unless its a gift from another source.

This time processor, the thinking adult in the room, has no patience nor extra funds, for $ 45,000,000 that already has a record.....of being a lemon.

That's my wrap, an observer going forward, and exerting effort to defeat this levy door to door, and with an open wallet.           

                
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
bumper View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Feb 01 2010
Location: over here
Status: Offline
Points: 307
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bumper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2014 at 11:12pm
@ aflatkey   
Back to Top
aflatkey View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Apr 07 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aflatkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2014 at 11:03pm
processor and fellow blogers
 

Your parallel example about automobiles and maintenance is interesting in nature. You at the end state that eventually you buy a new automobile. This is reflective of your income demographic. In other words not every body can buy a new car. In fact most of middle class citizens and other lower income demographic citizens only buy a used car after they have exhausted the one they currently own.

Discerning about your own life and how you impact other citizens in society that don’t come from your income demographic  is a form of social injustice.

Income demographic is a key issue in the supreme court decision of 1997. DeRolph v. State was a landmark case in Ohio constitutional law in which the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that the state's method for funding public education was unconstitutional. Handed down on March 24, 1997, the 4-3 opinion said that the state funding system "fails to provide for a thorough and efficient system of common schools" as required by the Ohio Constitution and directed the state to find a remedy. The court would look at the case several times over the next 12 years before relinquishing jurisdiction, though the underlying problems with the school funding system were never fully solved.
To better understand this form of discrimination you need to know that schools in rich districts are able to pass levy’s and bonds with shorter terms and as a result more tax is collected from each citizen in that district because of the districts income demographic. This in turn gives this district a advantage to build, remodel, re-invent curriculums for students, offer programs the poor do not receive and in the end flourish as a educational institution while poor districts suffer with the lack of funds.  It all boils down to proportion and relationship. All districts should have equal proportion in funding from the state without funding public education on the backs of property owners. This form of discrimination is so hidden from plain view because the current system uses statistical analysis and surveys to indoctrinate citizens in to a belief that they are doing good for the community, when in actuality they are propagating discrimination based on income demographic funding of public schools threw land tax.

The relationship these pro – lobby’s have with their constituents is based on sound bites that do not tell the whole story.

Yep, maybe that school is broken, and needs replaced, or renovated, or demolished, or made in to a local museum of a day gone passed. But to propagate income demographic

Funding of public schools is straight up a form of discrimination based on income alone.

The poor and lower middle class should not be discriminated against just because of their

income. For 17 years your politicians have neglected their constitutional duty to provide for a thorough and efficient system of common schools" as required by the Ohio Constitution. This concept is in reference that all schools should have a common thread . They should be funded equally irregardless of a districts income or social demographic. In other words the public schools in Indian hills should be a carbon copy of schools in Middletown. Because of income demographics they are not. This creates unfair and unequal funding , a type of discrimination, of all the school districts and relives the state of their constitutional duty as directed by the Ohio supreme court. To change this form of discrimination  all citizens state wide need to vote against all levy’s and bond issues for public education. As a result the state will have no recourse but to acknowledge the citizens vote and legislate a equal , proportioned, funding system that dose not discriminate against any demographic group.

 
Abolish the property tax for the school system!! its unconstitutional !!

Vote no on may 6 if you want to make a change in the current system!!

 

Visit

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Middletown-Ohio-Vote-NO-on-Issue-3/784089358269325?ref=br_tf

 

and like the page to show support of your constitutional freedoms in Ohio.

 
please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion as

Brevity is the soul of wit   

 and with out laughter over the kinks in society anarchy might prevail.

and that's the rest of the story , good day ( Paul Harvey 1946)

aflatkey
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2014 at 8:21pm
processor:

"Based on a community committee and many surveys it is what the majority of Middletown residents wanted."

CAN'T DEDUCE THAT "IT IS WHAT THE MAJORITY OF MIDDLETOWN RESIDENTS WANTED" BY THE INCLUSION OF WHAT, 20-30 ON A SCHOOL COMMITTEE AND A SURVEY MAILED TO WHAT, LESS THAN 10% OF THE COMMUNITY? AND THE SURVEY WAS PROBABLY PRE-SELECTED AS TO WHO RECEIVED IT BASED ON THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THOSE ADMINISTERING THE SURVEY KNEW WHO WOULD APPROVE. SURVEYS AND POLLS PRESENT COMPROMISED DATA WHEN THE PARTICIPANTS ARE SCREENED FOR OPINIONS PRIOR TO THE SURVEY BEING SENT OUT. IT IS TAINTED DATA INDICATING A FALSE BREAKOUT OF THE REAL PICTURE WITHIN A GROUP OF PEOPLE.

BOTTOM LINE:

YOU CAN'T ISSUE A POLL, SURVEY OR QUESTIONAIRE TO A SMALL FACTION OF A COMMUNITY AND COME TO ANY CONCLUSION THAT IS BELIEVABLE. MIDDLETOWN HAS WHAT, 47,000 PEOPLE? HOW MANY SURVEYS WERE MAILED OUT AND WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION DID THE SURVEYS COVER TO CALL IT A MAJORITY? IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OVER 50% OF THE POPULATION. PERHAPS THE MAJORITY OF THE RESPONDANTS APPROVED, BUT NOT THE MAJORITY OF THE COMMUNITY.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2014 at 8:02pm
processor:

"That's what the BOE has done with Vail. Why put major money into the school when the master plan was to eliminate it? The master plan was developed over 10 years ago and has been updated and modified along the years"

THE REPORTED DATE FOR ANY MAJOR OVERHAUL AT VAIL WAS 1961. THAT WAS WELL BEFORE THE MORE CURRENT (10 YEARS AGO AS YOU STATE) MASTER PLAN AND DECADES HAVE GONE BY SINCE THE 1961 OVERHAUL. DECADES AGO, THE SCHOOL DIDN'T KNOW THAT THE SCHOOL WOULD BE ELIMINATED AS THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS A MASTER PLAN, RIGHT? CAN'T USE THAT REASON FOR NOT TAKING CARE OF VAIL IN THE 70'S/ 80's AND 90'S. THE DISTRICT DID NOT HAVE A PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE PROGRAM FOR IT'S OLDEST BUILDING. THIS IS INDICATED BY MS. ANDREW'S REMARKS THAT THE DISTRICT TOOK CARE OF THE PROBLEMS AS THEY AROSE, RATHER THAN TO HAVE AN ACTIVE PROGRAM TO PREVENT MAJOR COSTLY REPAIRS THAT DRAINED THE OLD BANK ACCOUNT. PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE WORKS IN FACTORIES TO KEEP EQUIPMENT ON LINE. WOULD HAVE WORKED WITH VAIL TOO IF IT WAS PUT IN PLACE LONG AGO.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
processor View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: May 07 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote processor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2014 at 4:30pm
Riveter,
What you are stating makes NO sense to me. I liken it to a car. Say you have a 1994 car that is in need of new suspension, tires, brakes, transmission, and piston rings. It runs but could break down any time. You know that you will buy a new car one year from now. Do you nurse your current car along for a year or do you put more maintenance money in the car than it's worth and fix everything that is wrong with it? The vast majority of people would do minimal maintenance, just enough to keep it safe and nurse the car along for a year. Once they got their new car they would then get the most money for the old one. That's what the BOE has done with Vail. Why put major money into the school when the master plan was to eliminate it? The master plan was developed over 10 years ago and has been updated and modified along the years. Based on a community committee and many surveys it is what the majority of Middletown residents wanted.
Back to Top
RRiveter View Drop Down
MUSA Immigrant
MUSA Immigrant


Joined: Apr 09 2014
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RRiveter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2014 at 3:25pm
Pardon me, Ms. Andrew...

I corrected my 37 years to 53. You'll have to excuse my error, again.

Your passion for getting this to pass is clear.

What did the hundreds of thousands of dollars go to?   

Do YOU understand that all of the fundraising you have done to re-build could be going towards renovation?

"The district waiting longer than it wanted to address problems with the middle school" is ridiculous.

Laughable.

Here's what I understand Ms. Andrew, to be clear, you all waited TOO LONG and now that you've waiting too long and the kids can't learn there (according to your campaign)... Looks like we're going to have a 93 year old building with a bunch of kids, not learning, sweating, and a BOE that will continue to wait.

This bond levy doesn't pass.. THEN WHAT?

HOPE YOU CAN FIND SOME BIGGER BAND AIDS!
RRiveter
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2014 at 3:07pm
Ms. Andrew:

"When the state funding for new schools was first introduced, both the district and the state's experts identified Vail as the building in MCSD most in need of replacement. But a bond levy proposing to build a new high school and to renovate the existing high school for a middle school as the FIRST phase of construction was rejected by the voters"

The "experts" recommended a rebuild of Vail. No mention of a renovation. Was there a reason for the schools not to consider a Vail renovation at the time as an alternative? So the schools only answer was to offer a new high school and a renovation of the current high school to replace Vail. Defeated by voters. SOMETIMES, YA JUST HAVE TO BEWARE OF THE SO-CALLED "EXPERTS". THEIR OPINION IS, MORE SO THAN NOT, NOT THE GOSPEL.

THE OFFERS FROM THE SCHOOL TO THE VOTER IS ALWAYS NEW. SEEMS AS IF THE IDEA OF RENOVATING AND LEAVING THE EXTERIOR INTACT IS NEVER CONSIDERED.

MS. ANDREW, IF THE PRO-LEVY FOLKS GET THEIR WAY, AND YOUR NEW MIDDLE SCHOOL IS BUILT, WHAT, IN YOUR OPINION, WILL THE CITIZENS GET FOR THEIR MONEY? IT WON'T BE AN ATTRACTION ISSUE OR WE WOULD HAVE SEEN MORE STUDENTS ENTER THE DISTRICT, RATHER THAN SEE A DECLINING ENROLLMENT. IT WON'T BE AN IMPROVED SCENARIO WITH STUDENT PERFORMANCE OR WE WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT BY NOW FROM THE NEW ELEMENTARIES YOU BUILT. IT WON'T BE IN THE AREA OF INCREASED INDICATOR NUMBERS BEING MET OR WE WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT BY NOW FROM THE ELEMENTARIES, RIGHT? IT WON'T BE AN IMPROVED REPUTATION FOR THE DISTRICT OR WE WOULD BE HEARING MORE POSITIVE TALK FROM THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES. THE GENERAL CONSENSUS, WHEN READING OUTSIDE NEWS, IS THAT MIDDLETOWN IS A RED-NECK, ILLITERATE CESSPOOL WITH AN OVERABUNDANCE OF CRIME, DRUGS AND BEHIND THE TIMES IDEAS FOR DEVELOPMENT THAT HAS PLACED THE CITY THIRTY YEARS BEHIND THE TIMES COMPARED TO SURROUNDING TOWNS....A PLACE TO STAY AWAY FROM FOR OUTSIDERS. THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS TO THANK FOR THAT IMAGE. THEY HAVE STRIPPED WHAT THEY WANTED FROM THIS CITY, MADE IGNORANT DECISIONS IN LEADERSHIP ROLES, AND MOVED ON, LEAVING A DYING CITY IN THEIR WAKE.

WHAT WILL WE SEE WITH YOUR NEW MIDDLE SCHOOL AND THE ELIMINATION OF THE VAIL BUILDING AS TO ANY POSITIVES FROM YOUR SCHOOLS?

CAN YOU BE SOMEWHAT CERTAIN THAT YOUR NEW SCHOOL WILL:

A) INCREASE PERFORMANCE NUMBERS THAT WILL BE BETTER THAN VAIL'S?
B) ENTICE FAMILIES TO MOVE HERE?
C) HELP WITH INCREASED INDICATOR NUMBERS?
D) GIVE US BETTER RESULTS THAN YOUR ELEMENTARIES HAVE GIVEN TO DATE?
E) HELP ATTRACT BUSINESSES?
F) IMPROVE THE CURRENT IMAGE AND REPUTATION OF THIS DISTRICT.
G) SIMPLY BE WORTH THE INVESTMENT AND YIELD A DECENT ROI FOR THE TAXPAYER?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
aflatkey View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Apr 07 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aflatkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2014 at 2:37pm
Marcia Andrew

this is the 3ed time i have asked for you to provide a appropriations bill number to legitimize the claim that the 40 million is in the bank. you claimed yesterday that it has been appropriated. I cannot find it on the state web site that makes public all appropriations and legislative bills. while you might be correct in saying that it is a line item in the state budget, the budget is still in  the approval process and will not go into implementation till july 1-2014

i have provided a example below of  another bill that has the numerology  that references its authenticity.

 
Line-item Appropriations
A example of appropriations is an excerpt from Section 415.10 of Am. Sub. H.B. 153 of the 129th
General Assembly. Section 415.10 contains line-item appropriations to the Department of Youth
Services, which administers juvenile correctional programs. The appropriations are made from money
credited to 15 different funds, each of which is identified by an abbreviation of its fund name or
by its fund number. OBM classifies all state funds into fund groups including, in the Department of
Youth Services example, the General Revenue Fund Group, General Services Fund Group,
Federal Special Revenue Fund Group, and State Special Revenue Fund Group.

the above information should help you identify where the 40 million is coming from and if it is a active
appropriation. Remember no appropriations of any kind are active till July 1-2014. and most are still in committee right now. Any appropriation will have a specific number as to identify it as legislation and or as a final appropriation.

please don't hesitate to tell me your opinion as

Brevity is the soul of wit   /

and with out laughter over the kinks in society anarchy might prevail.

and that's the rest of the story , good day ( Paul Harvey 1946)

aflatkey
Back to Top
Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jan 09 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2014 at 2:07pm
Riveter, you have confused me.  In your earlier post, you seemed to be complaining that "nothing was done" to the middle school building for 37 years, and that if the school district had just "taken care of it" it would be fine and there would be no need to replace it or do major renovations now.  When I responded that, in fact, the district has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in the 50 years since the last renovation on maintenance and repairs for the middle school, now you seem to be complaining that the district should not have waited 50 years to do a major renovation.  Do you understand the difference between major renovation, on the one hand, and maintenance and repairs, on the other? To me, maintenance and repairs is "taking care of it." 
It is certainly true that the district has waited longer than it wanted to address the problems with the middle school building.  I think you understand that the district does not have $30 or $4o million "extra" dollars in its operating budget that it can use for a major renovation, or new construction.  It has to ask for a special tax -- a bond levy -- to fund such major capital expenses.  When the state funding for new schools was first introduced, both the district and the state's experts identified Vail as the building in MCSD most in need of replacement.  But a bond levy proposing to build a new high school and to renovate the existing high school for a middle school as the FIRST phase of construction was rejected by the voters.  Surveys were conducted and it was determined that the community would support new elementary schools before new schools for the older students.  So, a new bond levy was placed on the ballot to fund the elementaries first, with the middle/high school to follow once MCSD became eligible for state funding.  That bond levy passed in 2004.  Then, it took longer for our "number" to come up than originally estimated by the state.   So here we are 10 years later and we have been holding the middle school and its roof and HVAC and plumbing together with band aids.  We did not wait to do something about it as a strategy.  We tried to do something about it 10 years ago and the effort was rejected.
Back to Top
RRiveter View Drop Down
MUSA Immigrant
MUSA Immigrant


Joined: Apr 09 2014
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RRiveter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2014 at 9:32am
Ms. Andrew

Just want to clarify...

Middletown Middle School By The Numbers

283: Votes the bond issued failed by on Nov. 5

830: Students who attend Middle School

1923: Year school was built

1961: Year last “major” renovations to Middle School

135,000: Square footage of proposed Middle School

240,000: Square footage of Middle School

$30 million: Cost to build new Middle School

$37 million: Cost to renovate Middle School

SOURCE: Middletown City School District and Butler and Warren county board of elections
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SOURCE

I do apologize, NOT 37 years for the last renovation, 53 years.. WOOPS!!
So with those numbers, I'm asking... WHEN does the BOE decide that work needs to be done to the new buildings? 53 years? when there may be money available? Or really just when you feel like it?

Or do you wait until these new buildings have no A/C, are falling down, (as has been claimed), to see how far the residents are willing to fall victim to "OUR KIDS CAN'T LEARN" when MOST of the voters have already been through and educated in ALL OF THE BUILDINGS THAT HAD NO A/C, AND EVERYTHING ELSE YOU CLAIM MMS IS LACKING!

The issue is.. how can people trust the BOE when it has taken this long to make any changes to that building. If work has been done, let's see it. That Middie Messenger was GREAT propaganda, only making the BOE look like fools by letting that building become what it is. Who is responsible? NOT ME!

What has changed at the new elementary buildings since they have been built? How much have test scores raised? If, at all, I'm sure not high enough for ME to give you any more of my money.

I fully support all POSITIVE things for the kids of this town... I must say, I am INSULTED by the BOE's strategy to get "YES" votes.

And yes, if you take care of something, it will last forever. You don't have to be driving a Model T or using a rotary phone, but I guarantee the one's that you do see... have been taken care of! Drive down Main Street... most of those homes in the "historic district" were built in the 1800's. They've been take care of for the most part. When you are able to appreciate the value of something, you'll take care of it.
The VALUE of our children's education is NOT determined by a structure.

You could build a school made out of gold... but what's that going to do?
RRiveter
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.
Copyright ©2024 MiddletownUSA.com    Privacy Statement  |   Terms of Use  |   Site by Xponex Media  |   Advertising Information