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Saturday, May 4, 2024 |
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VOTES FOR LEVY |
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409
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
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Had to copy & paste link into IE 11 to open. Thanx
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Every morning is the dawn of a new error...
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luke
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Apr 25 2014 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Its your browser, Foxfire works fine.
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409
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
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Every morning is the dawn of a new error...
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luke
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Apr 25 2014 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Marcia Andrew indicates Middletown's property values have declined in comparison to other cities hit by the national recession in 2008.
Maybe should read the new city manager's thesis. Housing stock won't be going up in Middletown for 30-40 years. http:///www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/commsvc/section8_analysis_2012_1023.pdf |
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chmoore1
MUSA Resident Joined: Jan 25 2012 Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Dean: and you, sir (assuming that you are male) are deluded. just 1chmoore. Strike up the band. "FIRED UP, READY TO GO!"
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Iron Man
MUSA Resident Joined: Sep 25 2013 Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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Only property owners, people with a vested interest should be eligible to vote. |
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Dean
MUSA Resident Joined: Apr 15 2014 Status: Offline Points: 162 |
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Of course not. You are Marcia. Now get that bulldozer started and the checks handed out pronto.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Well Spider it seems that they are back to “Build
it and they will come”
mind set again. It didn’t work last time but we will try it again. I do hope they remember that they can not bring in more Section 8 this time to bring in more kiddies. Sure go ahead and put it on the credit card and we will pay for it later. Yes sir everything going to be just duckie this time… |
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chmoore1
MUSA Resident Joined: Jan 25 2012 Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Dean: sorry, I'm not Smartman, but I do know him. Nice try, though. Good paranoia. just 1chmoore.
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Dean
MUSA Resident Joined: Apr 15 2014 Status: Offline Points: 162 |
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chmoore1, it appears to many you have been reincarnated. Once you were Smartman, the guy who had those smart kids that you owed so much to in the district. Hell, you aren't retired, you do the bidding for the Board. We'll give a call when the moving van gets near. Think he said his kid made a 16 on the ACT and got a scholarship at North Carolina A & M. Tree hugger too.
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chmoore1
MUSA Resident Joined: Jan 25 2012 Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Dean: thank you for the counseling. Nothing here worth discussing. I would like to add "FIRED UP, READY TO GO!" Bring in the heavy equipment, and open those wallets! Oh, that's right, you're all moving out of town. Need to rent a truck? Just trying to be helpful, just 1chmoore.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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I never like anything winning or losing by that kind of margin. Only seems to polarize people and entrench them towards their position. It has passed probably, so be it. Hey--everyone had the opportunity to vote, but property owners will carry the load as always. Becoming more un-acceptable every day.
Ms.Andrews continues to talk down to MUSA members, lately with her "hysteria" quote. which I find incredibly insulting. I can assure the lady that most here are as level-headed as her supporters. 24 votes switched the other way, and we would see real hysteric "end of the world" thinking. Occasionally the "lawyer" in the lady comes on a little hard, especially during the campaign signage situation. imo the price of being "legally correct" can win a skirmish and lose a war(which it came close to doing in this circumstance). Time to make this work. New and improved facilities, followed by increased enrollment, improved academic performance and a cleaner community image. Anything less will be viewed as a failed plan imo. Very concerned about the 5-year financial projection, and how she plans to manage that. Hopefully there will be no up-coming "operating" levy to deal with the benny situation.
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Dean
MUSA Resident Joined: Apr 15 2014 Status: Offline Points: 162 |
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chmoore1- some have told me buying a Porsche and tinting grey hair helps with the post retirement blues. Sure as heck less expensive than a Botoxed gym keeping you feeling youthful. Testosterone may work as well. Beats 95,000,000.
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Dean
MUSA Resident Joined: Apr 15 2014 Status: Offline Points: 162 |
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A footnote, and sorry about "booster". Tried to edit it but some damn clock said time was up.
"The remaining decline in property values coincides with a nationwide recession." - Marcia Andrew Marcia, you are not an oracle on real estate trends. Middletown hasn't been close to the regional average for property values in years. Its also about four times worse in decline than what happened in the 2008 recession. There has been no receovery either in Middletown. Thorpe's numbers were better than what the annual loss trend has been showing for six years.
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chmoore1
MUSA Resident Joined: Jan 25 2012 Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Dean: thank you for tolerance of others' opinions. So far, I've been told that since I'm retired, my opinion isn't valued, and now, I have to be "shamed" because of it. Sing loud, when it's time, singer....I hear the chorus line---"fired up, ready to go." Can't stop her now. just 1chmoore proudly supporting my local school system.
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Dean
MUSA Resident Joined: Apr 15 2014 Status: Offline Points: 162 |
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The MCSD levy, if it passed, did so with the slimmest of margins. It also did not pass based upon citizens vote of confidence, rather, its longstanding, older residents that wanted to remain locked in the past, and hang on to memories of Jerry Lucas making jump shots, Archie Aldridge power dunking, and Adolph Rupp coming for a visit to recruit.If the city members didn't have all those Section 8 voters going to the polls, living in apartments, it wouldn't have been within 10 points. I stopped at Subway on Roosevelt a few days before the election and saw a sandwich maker catering to three or four Middie basketball players. She had on a pro levy shirt that she said was being handed out by the high school. I asked her why she supported the levy, and knew what the cowsts to be. Without blinking an eye, she said, "its free, the state is paying it all, and damn it, we deserve a new school."After grabbing my salad, and walking away, I looked her in the eye and asked her if she had an Obama phone. She said, 'yes', and with the Obama contribution, she got an upgrade to a Samsung Galaxy.Between boosters, and others picking up the tab, there isn't any wonder why the levy passed. Its entitlement, and aged former athletes clinging to the past, still trying to turn the clock back fifty years.The passage had nothing to do with education, a phsyical need, or cost reduction. It was trying to avoid the clock running out on a dead town, and those in poverty giving a boost to get a new building, because someone else paid the bill.I love the Middies, but believe in aging gracefully, without Botox, and lingering in the past. Shame on the bossters.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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ch:
"I don't state that new buildings are needed for learning. Don't try to hang that on me" NO, BUT OTHERS HAVE. ch: "I am not, nor ever have been, a paid employee of MCSD. Don't try that angle either" NOPE, DIDN'T DO THAT EITHER. ch: "I do support our schools, but have no vested interest or ulterior motive other than MMS needs a solution" I UNDERSTAND YOU SUPPORT THE SCHOOLS. YOU HAVE MADE THAT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. MY QUESTION TO YOU IS .....WHY DO YOU SUPPORT THE SCHOOLS, GIVEN THE ENDLESS ARRAY OF INFORMATION THAT PLACES THE SCHOOLS IN AN UNFAVORABLE LIGHT?? FROM PROFICIENCIES TO INDICATORS TO PEOPLE TAKING THEIR KIDS OUT AND GOING ELSEWHERE TO POOR GRADUATION RATES TO CLOSE TO LAST PLACE WITHIN THE 618 OR SO DISTRICTS IN OHIO....... WHY ch........WHY DO YOU SUPPORT THE SCHOOLS? THERE IS NOTHING POSITIVE TO SUPPORT JUDGING BY THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE. IF THE COSTS ARE SIMILAR AS TO REPLACING VAIL WITH A NEW SCHOOL AND RENOVATING VAIL, I SAY KEEP THE OLD STRUCTURE, EQUIP IT WITH ALL THE LATEST BELLS AND WHISTLES AND RETAIN A LITTLE HISTORY ALONG THE WAY. ACTUALLY DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER NEW OR OLD. THE RESULTS ARE THE SAME FOR THIS DISTRICT........POOR. HOW THEY DO THINGS IS THE PROBLEM, NOT WHERE THEY DO THESE THINGS. JMO THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING. I ENJOY DEBATING WITH YOU. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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"The district has not had an increase in operating tax levy since 2005."
WAAAY BACK IN 2005 HEY. WELL THEN, BY ALL MEANS, IT IS TIME FOR THE SCHOOL BOARD AND SCHOOL SUPPORTERS TO START THE CAMPAIGN FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS. LET'S CONTINUE TO TAX THE HELL OUT OF THE VERY PEOPLE WHO CAN ILL AFFORD MORE TAXES. "The remaining decline in property values coincides with a nationwide recession" NOT TO MENTION WHAT THE CITY LEADERS AND THE POOR REPUTATION OF THE SCHOOLS HAVE DONE TO THE DEMAND FOR PROPERTY IN MIDDLETOWN. NEITHER ENTITY HAS EXACTLY HELPED STRENTHEN THE VALUE ON PROPERTY HERE. NO ONE WANTS TO LOCATE TO MIDDLETOWN NO MATTER HOW MANY NEW SCHOOLS YOU BUILD MS. ANDREW. "NEW" ISN'T THE ANSWER TO UPGRADING PROPERTY VALUES. QUALITY WITHIN, WHETHER NEW OR OLD, IS AN ANSWER THAT WILL START THE ATTRACTION. "The district asked the voters to fund new buildings because the existing buildings are not adequate for the education needed to compete in a global economy" TELL THAT TO THE OLDER COLLEGE INSTITUTIONS THAT DO UPSCALE EDUCATION IN VERY OLD BUILDINGS. I LOOK FOR DUKE, HARVARD AND YALE TO TEAR DOWN THEIR OLD BUILDINGS ANYDAY AND BUILD ALL NEW TO IMPROVE THEIR LEVEL OF EDUCATION BASES ON THIS OBSERVATION. THE PROBLEM WITH THIS STATEMENT IS THAT, BE IT NEW OR OLD, THE EDUCATION PROVIDED BY THE SCHOOL COMMUNITY IS PERCEIVED AS NOT ADEQUATE TO "COMPETE IN A GLOBAL ECONOMY". CAN'T EVEN COMPETE ENTERING THE FIRST YEAR OF COLLEGE ACCORDING TO THE UNIVERSITY OPINIONS (REFERENCE THE REMEDIAL PROGRAMS CONDUCTED BY COLLEGES FOR FRESHMAN STUDENTS FRESH FROM HIGH SCHOOL), MUCH LESS FURTHER ON UP THE ROAD ENTERING THE WORKING WORLD. NEW SCHOOLS AREN'T THE ANSWER FOR PREPARATION FOR THE GLOBAL ECONOMY, IT IS WHAT IS TAUGHT IN THOSE NEW (OR OLD) SCHOOLS THAT MAKE OR BREAK THE READINESS OF COMPETITION IN TH GLOBAL ECONOMY. YOU ARE STILL TRYING TO SELL THE "NEW SCHOOL CONCEPT AS THE ANSWER" ROUTINE. DOESN'T WORK FOR SOME OF US. "New/renovated buildings are not a reward for past performance or a guarantee of future performance." AHH, THE OLD "DISCLAIMER" TO COVER CONTINUAL PERFORMANCE ISSUES AND THE "WE'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE TO THOSE WHO ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR OUR NICE NEW SCHOOLS IF THEY DON'T PRODUCE" ROUTINE. THEN WHAT ARE WE GETTING FOR OUR MONEY IF THE OUTCOME IS NOT SOMEWHAT ASSURED OF SUCCESS? BASED ON YOUR STATEMENT, NEW BUILDINGS ARE A CRAP SHOOT AS TO WHAT WE MAY SEE DOWN THE ROAD. "The campaign for the levy did not make such a claim; it is only one that the no voters throw up as a red herring to strike down". "The campaign for the levy did not make such a claim MIGHT BE TRUE FOR NOW, BUT AT SOME POINT IN TIME, YOU HAVE TO SHOW SOME PROGRESS AND TAKE OFF THE TRAINING WHEELS ON THE BICYCLE MS. ANDREW. YA CAN'T RIDE THE "WE NEED YOUR HELP" TRAIN FOREVER WHILE CONTINUING TO SHOW US NOTHING IN RETURN. YEP, WE THROW UP "RED HERRINGS" WHILE YOUR SIDE OF THE FENCE THROWS UP THE OLD PASSIFICATION AND APPEASEMENT PROGRAM INUNDATED WITH EXCUSES, EMPTY PROMISES, THE PROVERBIAL "WE ARE HOPING THE NEXT TIME WILL BE BETTER" AS THE EXCUSE TRAIN KEEPS ON A ROLLIN" WITH AN ENDLESS LIST OF REASONS WHY YOU FAILED TO ACHIEVE THIS TIME GIMMICKS. GETTING OLD AFTER THREE DECADES, REALLY IS. WE KEEP THROWING MONEY AT YOU AS YOU REQUEST AND KEEP GETTING THE BLACK EYE EVERY TIME AS TO OUTCOME. WHY? ISN'T IT ABOUT TIME TO SEE SOME REAL IMPROVEMENT WITH THIS DISTRICT? THE FAILURE TRAIN CAN'T RUN FOREVER. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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chmoore1
MUSA Resident Joined: Jan 25 2012 Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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VV: here it is, bottom line: Vail/MMS needs to be replaced. NOWHERE from ANYONE on the "no" side could (or would) give their plan on what to do with the 90+ year old building. All have been asked, no one has come up with the solution----even total renovation costs nearly as much as the new building. The only thing I saw on here was "let's do nothing" for the next x number of years. I don't state that new buildings are needed for learning. Don't try to hang that on me. I am not, nor ever have been, a paid employee of MCSD. Don't try that angle either. I do support our schools, but have no vested interest or ulterior motive other than MMS needs a solution. You can't stick your head in the sand and ignore it. That's my take, whether you value my opinion or not (Acclaro). Bulldozers "fired up, ready to go"! GO MIDDIES! just 1chmoore.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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This is easy to comprehend Vet.
Besides AK, the biggest employer in the city is MUM and the school district. Its driven by public sector employees, unions, that are making no progress in performance. As you correctly stated, its easy to move up when at the bottom of the barrel. But, neither residents nor employees want anything to do with Middletown. The school system is poor, its quite obvious, and money is wasted. What irks me is the dishonesty of the campaign. That will not be forgotten, nor will it not be reported. At the end of the day, over 55% of those voting YES, didn't even own property, hence, will see no pain in taxation. The district rounded up multiple partners that outsource services, to "sponsor" dances, and get parents together, forming YES blocks. Many MUM students voted, paying nothing for taxes. The city wants payroll tax to stay in place, from the school district. So they agree to round up YES votes. The senior citizens got their debt absorbed by city council deals, that traded unloading debt for seniors, for votes for city in future campaigns, coming next year, and the school district. As the reverend stated about it being a marathon, these campaign built on misinformation about cost, acceleration of payment, and state match funds "going away", was running in the background for years. It will only serve to move more residents out, including businesses, as enrollment declines, tax valuation worsens, and the cycle of destroying the property owner continues in Middletown. Frankly, wo in their right mind would own property in Middletown, already on a decline, knowing all these taxes are coming. How soon do you think raises will be coming for the MCSD? About a year. Then, the high operating taxation, as the district goes into the red. If you work in the district, city hall, or MUM, you don't care. You scratch my back, I scratch yours. The goal is to reduce the population to around 27,000. It will arrive. There won't be docs and attorneys filling existing practices today in Middletown in 10 years, they'll be in Monroe and Lebanon. It will be as shell of a town, built on public sector employees. Leadership failed decades ago, and what exists today isn't equivalent of entry level. With slight organization, and a month, the school levy would have gone down by 500 votes. Even with misrepresentations associated with receipt of $40 Mm, the levy failed by .5%, and some questionable tactics that will be reviewed. Interest rates are still low, a great time to move. Or, appeaql that property tax bill by March end of 2015. There is consequence for distortion. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Marcia Andrew
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 09 2010 Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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There is a lot of hysteria on this board, so please consider some actual facts: The 5-year forecast is a process that the state requires all public school districts to update twice a year. Our 5-year forecasts have been discussed at least 4 board meetings every year (it is always presented first for discussion, then not coming back for a vote until the next meeting) and available on our website and the agenda for each of those meetings. Sometimes we discuss them more often, when changes in the key assumptions become known. Nothing was hidden from the voters. Annual audits also on website. The 5-year forecast addresses only general operating fund revenues and expenses; it does not reflect money raised by a bond issue that can only be used on capital expenses. The state requires public school districts to project revenue and expenses out 5 years, but only guarantees its own funding to school districts for one year (state budgets cover 2 years but this governor has amended the budget every year, as he is doing now). We cannot include in the forecast any increase in revenue unless we know for sure we will get it. But we must include in the forecast increases in expenses that we are obligated for. This process naturally produces forecasts with deficits in the later years. If you look back historically, you will see MCSD had deficits in the later years of its 5 year forecasts almost all the time, but the "forecasted" end of year negative cash balances have never come to pass. That is prohibited by law. Instead, the district has made continual and repeated rounds of budget cuts. The district has not had an increase in operating tax levy since 2005. The total tax valuation of property in the Middletown school district declined primarily because the state eliminated the business tangible property tax. This accounts for most of the reduction. The remaining decline in property values coincides with a nationwide recession. The district asked the voters to fund new buildings because the existing buildings are not adequate for the education needed to compete in a global economy. New/renovated buildings are not a reward for past performance or a guarantee of future performance. The campaign for the levy did not make such a claim; it is only one that the no voters throw up as a red herring to strike down.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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ch: "You can count on my vote for the next school levy". Fascinating comment ch. For the record, and for my understanding, if I may ask, why did you vote yes on the bond levy? Were you satisfied with the academic/indicator performances of the district? Do you just simply support everything Andrew and the board tells you? Are you happy with the school ranking as to graduation rates or school state rankings? How about performance test results? Happy with that? Are you content to know that your property value, despite new schools having been built years ago, have not increased but rather are steadily decreasing? Are you content in knowing that families are enrolling their kids in systems outside the district giving a no-confidence type of message? What, pray tell, makes a person cast a vote of support for this district when it appears there is nothing but trouble in every category of consideration? WHAT BENEFIT ARE YOU GETTING OUT OF GIVING THEM MORE OF YOUR PROPERTY TAX MONEY? I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE METHOD OF THINKING FROM THE PRO-LEVY FOLKS. THERE IS NOTHING POSITIVE TO EXTRACT A YES VOTE AS I SEE IT. An analogy for you..... New building investing in the Middletown schools is like the people of Cincinnati investing in a new stadium for the Bengals during the Dave Shula/Bruce Coslet era during the 80's. They were the laughing stock of the NFL in those days, a proverbial comedy of errors each Sunday and a perrenial loser year after year, so much so that with the fans who did go, wore brown bags over their heads in shame. I see similarities here. Why reward stagnated mediocrity/failure with new buildings? Have they earned that request? |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Let's see, operating/legacy costs going up and poorly planned for ahead of time.....revenue in the form of property taxes going down. Don't even think about another dam levy for operating costs. You just invaded the people's wallet for your dam bond levy. One bilking at a time school people.
So how's that "new schools will yield higher property value" theory working out for you now? Wrong again. New elementary schools have done nothing to attract new people nor contributed to higher property values or eye-opening results . Middletown's reputation of receiving a poor education trumps all the bells and whistles you school supporters can come up with. Wrong again. Taj Mahal looking schools teaching in an ineffective manner still yields a poor result. When are you going to learn that school people? Mercy you're stubborn. School Board members, please explain to the people how the new schools and the direction your board has taken has made an impact for the better and how the taxpayer ROI has been well worth the expenditure. Property values down. Indicators down with no upward movement. Performance at stagnation level. Graduation rates at the bottom. School enrollment declining. More students choosing alternatives to being educated in this system. How do you explain what is and has happened here over time? |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Updated: School board approves five-year forecast
By Rick McCrabb Staff Writer Imagine
predicting it for That’s what school treasurers face around
the state when they produce their district’s five-year financial forecast, she
said. On Tuesday night, the board unanimously approved the financial form, but
not before the Rev. Greg Tyus, board vice-president, asked Kelley to clarify a
few points. Tyus was upset by how news reports
characterized the forecast after it was presented at an earlier school board
meeting. Thorpe explained the district should end this fiscal year with a cash
balance of more than $2 million. That number is expected to grow to $2.7
million in 2015 and $2.4 million in 2016. But the next two years, because of sharply
higher employees’ retirement and health insurance and lower property values
throughout The property valuation for the school
district was $975 million in 2008, and is expected to drop to $711 million this
year, she said. Thorpe said general property tax revenue used to be the fastest
growing assessed tax valuation. However, in recent years, she said, this source
of revenue has been decreasing steadily due to changes in property valuation in
the city. Thorpe said property values will be appraised this year in Thorpe said she’s predicting a 2 to 3
percent drop in property values in Meanwhile, she said, the revenue will be
fairly stagnant because it’s based on “what we know right now,” she said. Thorpe said the first year of the forecast
will be more accurate than the fifth year. She said that’s a typical five-year plan
for school districts, and added that 98 percent or 99 percent of the districts
in the state have negative forecasts. She said operating in the red is “not
that alarming” in school finances. Tyus wanted the She
said one of the “unknown majors” is what impact the Affordable Care Act will
have on the district. Also, she said, if for some reason, the
district’s bond issue fails, and a new middle school isn’t built, the district
would have to budget $1 million to replace the roof. This fiscal year, she said, more students
left
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chmoore1
MUSA Resident Joined: Jan 25 2012 Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Acclaro: Ok. I'm in my 70's. Been retired for some years. Nothing in there about my income. Just said that I saved $500 year on property taxes. Nothing about a "cap". You can count on my vote for the next school levy. Probably not (almost certainly) on the city. I actually agree with you on that. Horrible situation here in the city. Still don't see why you think that being retired negates my opinion. You need to work on that. I do agree with you also on no time to bloviate....I need to get my earth moving equipment in running order. Let me know which tree you'll be chained to---I'll leave that one til last. Trying to be helpful in my old age. Your buddy,just 1chmoore. See you at the polls!
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