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Vague Change we can believe in...

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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2008 at 3:08pm
Jonathan- we don't know if the surge has worked because everything is so muddled over there. We won't know until this war is over and done whether anything has truely worked or not. Did McCain vote against this war? I assume he did based on your statement that he was totally against the way we went into it. Are you sure Obama wants to reduce military spending? He wants to divert the effort from Iraq back into Afganistan where it all started.If he is allowed to do that, he won't be able to cut the military budget,even if he wanted to. How does being in the military equate to having "military power". It means he has been acclimated to the military more than Obama, but hardly guarantees a hard core military stance. Some militarily acclimated people aren't as hard line on the total power thing. As for job makers and raising taxes-just because you give tax breaks to employers for the purpose of creating jobs, doesn't guarantee they will do so, unless you apply that stipulation to the deal. Some companies aren't and haven't paid their fair share of taxes for years. Those are the ones that need to be looked at.Corporate tax loopholes and political "buddies" looking the other way have contributed to issues being questioned today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arwendt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2008 at 2:18pm

"Political intervention is one reason we lost in Vietnam"

 

Total agreement.

 

So why let politicians, or the political agenda of a new president, put us in that same position again?

 
“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Middletown News Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2008 at 2:14pm
Vet Said, "What I do care about is that the commander in chief have some common sense and logic coupled with confirmed data in making his decisions."
 
I agree, if you remember, McCain was against the half assed way we went into this war. That's common sense to me. McCain was for the surge and the surge worked.
 
McCain equals Military Power, Obama wants to reduce the military spending.
 
Not now, that would be like raising taxes on the job makers. Another oops for Obama.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2008 at 1:37pm
Jonathan- as a military veteran of the same war that McCain was in, I don't care whether the commander in chief is a military veteran or not. What I do care about is that the commander in chief have some common sense and logic coupled with confirmed data in making his decisions. I would prefer not to be in a time of war period, particularly in a war like we are currently in, with no winnable solutions in sight.I see 58,000 names on a black granite wall(including some friends) in Washington and no one can tell me why they died. Tends to turn me off needlessly killing off young men to satisfy the whims of politicians wants. If indeed, we are in a war, I want to see the damn politicians keep their nose out of it and let the military people make the decisions. Political intervention is one reason we lost in Vietnam.Another is the stubborn continuation of futility and lying to the public about it being winnable by Johnson,followed by Nixon, who finally ended it in 1975. Sound familiar?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Middletown News Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2008 at 12:53pm
Vet said, "As for McCain's character in his military life, there is no question- he is a hero and an honorable man."
 
I agree - See we can agree on some things.
 
Do you agree that someone with vast military experience would be better suited to be commander in cheif during time of war?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2008 at 12:11pm
You have always been civil, Pacman. I just mentioned that because few topics create open "heated" discussions like politics. I was just anticipating a barrage. It was mentioned in light hearted fashion and was not meant to attack you. I enjoy your comments and learn from your posts. I enjoy your conservative viewpoints on this site. No harm intended.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2008 at 11:56am
".......we can keep this civil--- Pacman."
 
Please elaborate when I haven't been civil on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2008 at 11:50am
Ok Jonathan- did you post this because you want a response or did you post this just to inform us of one man's opinion among thousands? Response: If Joe Porter doesn't know by now what changes are being proposed, he hasn't paid much attention to any news or articles that have been presented. Some of the changes that have been proposed are as follows: The Iraq War- Obama wants some timeline to end this futile attempt to control terrorism in the Middle east. After 5 plus years, we have made only baby steps in securing the country and we should know that this type of war(like Vietnam)can not be won, no matter how long we stay. As soon as we leave, whether it be one year from now or many years from now(as McCain is proposing) the terrorists will return and dismantle all that we have accomplished. It happened with the North Vietnamese Army/Viet Cong in 1975. This is a guerilla(spelling) war(like Vietnam) and history has taught us that when we leave, the people will not resist, returning the country to terrorist control. Taxation to benefit the middle class people/businesses making less than $250,000 per year. No additional taxes for this group.Finally, PERHAPS, the middle class will see some benefits that have been enjoyed by the upper crust all these years. Examining existing programs to verify whether they are viable or a waste of taxpayer money INCLUDING social programs (made famous by the Democrats)- essentially an audit of government programs. A different direction from the path that George W. Bush has taken us. IE- repairing the damage done in the negative perception that Europe, Asia and the world have of us. A perception of pushing people around and pushing the Bush program of "our way or the highway" on our own citizens as well as the world's governments. The egotistical/elistist attitude of the Bush administration must change. It has damaged us in the world's standing. Since everyone refers to a global world nowadays, to compete, we need to present this country as being more cooperative with other nations.Talk and negotiation attempts hurt nothing for starters. There's some topics for Joe Porter to start with. He can take it from there. As for McCain's character in his military life, there is no question- he is a hero and an honorable man. However, you need to examine his personal life also, to get a picture of the entire man. I would suggest ole Joe Porter take time to read about McCain's private side of his life also. He has as many skeletons in his closet as Obama. Since we are in Republican Conservative land here, I'm severely outnumbered, but that's alright- it creates debate and offers varied opinions. Hopefully, we can keep this civil--- Pacman.Ok, conservatives- have at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Middletown News Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2008 at 11:02am

Dear Friends:  

           My name is Joe Porter. I live in   Champaign ,  Illinois .  I'm 46 years old, a born-again Christian, a husband, a father, a small business owner, a veteran, and a homeowner. I don't consider myself to be either conservative or liberal, and I vote for the person,  not Republican or Democrat. I don't believe there are  'two Americas ' but that every person in this country can be whomever and  whatever they want to be if they'll just work to get there and nowhere else on earth can they find such opportunities. I believe our government should help those who are legitimately downtrodden, and should  always put the interests of  America  first.  

    The purpose of this message is that I'm concerned about the future of this great nation. I'm worried that the silent majority of honest, hard-working, tax-paying people in this country have been passive for too long. Most folks I know choose not to involve themselves in politics. They go about their daily lives, paying their bills, raising  their kids, and doing what they can to maintain the good life. They vote and consider doing so to be a sacred trust. They shake their heads at the political pundits and so-called 'news', thinking that what they hear is always spun by whomever is reporting it. They can't understand how elected officials can regularly violate the public trust with pork barrel  spending. They don't want government handouts. They want the government to protect them, not raise their taxes for more government programs.  

        We are in the unique position in this country of electing our leaders. It's a privilege to do so. I've never found a candidate in any election with whom I agreed on everything. I'll wager that most of us don't even agree with our families or spouses 100% of the  time. So when I step into that voting booth, I always try to look at the big picture and cast my vote for the man or woman who is best qualified for the job.   I've hired a lot of people in my lifetime, and essentially that's what an election is - a hiring process. Who has the credentials? Whom do I want working for me? Whom can I trust to do the job right?

       I'm concerned that a growing number of voters in this country simply don't get it. They are caught up in a fervor they can't explain, and calling it 'change'.  

    'Change what?', I ask.  

    'Well, we're going to change  America ', they say.  

     'In what way?', I query.  

     'We want someone new and fresh in the White House', they exclaim.

   'So,  someone who's not a politician?', I say.  

      'Uh, well, no, we just want a lot of stuff changed, so we're voting for Obama', they state.  

      'So  the current system, the system of freedom and democracy that has enabled a man to grow up in this great country, get a fine education, raise incredible amounts of money and dominate the news, and win his party's nomination for the White House that system's all wrong?'

    'No, no, that part of the system's okay we just need a lot of change.'

   And so it goes. 'Change we can believe in.'  

   Quite frankly, I don't believe that vague proclamations of change hold any promise for me. In recent months, I've been asking virtually everyone I encounter how they're voting. I live in  Illinois , so most folks tell me they're voting for Barack Obama.   But no one can really tell me why only that he's going to change a lot of stuff 'Change, change, change.' I have yet to find one single person who can tell me distinctly and convincingly why this man is qualified to be President and Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful nation on earth other than the fact that he claims he's going to implement a lot of change.  

 We've all seen the emails about Obama's genealogy, his upbringing, his Muslim background, and his church affiliations. Let's ignore this for a moment. Put it all aside. Then ask yourself, 'What qualifies this man to be my president?  That he's a brilliant orator and talks about change?'   

   CHANGE WHAT?  

    Friends, I'll be forthright with you I believe the American voters who are supporting Barack Obama don't have a clue what they're doing, as evidenced by the fact that not one of them - NOT ONE of them I've spoken to can spell out his qualifications. Not even the most liberal media can explain why he should be elected.  Political experience? Negligible. Foreign relations? Non-existent. Achievements?  Name one.  Someone who wants to unite the country?  If you haven't read his wife's thesis from   Princeton , look it up on the web. This is who's lining up to be our next First Lady?  The only thing I can glean from Obama's constant harping about change is that we're in for a lot of new taxes.  

   For me, the choice is clear. I've looked carefully at the two leading applicants for the job, and I've made  my choice.  

    Here's a question - 'Where were you five and a half years ago? Around Christmas, 2002.  You've had five or six birthdays in that time. My son has grown from a sixth grade child to a high school graduate.   Five and a half years is a good chunk of time. About 2,000 days.  2,000 nights of sleep.  6,000 meals, give or take.'  

    John McCain spent that amount of time, from 1967 to 1973, in a North Vietnamese prisoner-of-war camp.  

   When offered early release, he refused it.  He considered this offer to be a public relations stunt by his captors, and insisted that those held longer than he should be released first.  Did you get that part?  He was offered his freedom, and he turned it down.  A regimen of beatings and torture began.  

   Do you possess such strength of character?  Locked in a filthy cell in a foreign country, would you turn down your own freedom in favor of your fellow man?  I submit that's a quality of character that is rarely found, and for me, this singular act defines John McCain.  

  Unlike several presidential candidates in recent years whose military service is questionable or non-existent, you will not find anyone to denigrate the integrity and moral courage of this man.  A graduate of Annapolis, during his Naval service he received the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.  His own son is now serving in the Marine Corps in  Iraq .  Barack Obama is fond of saying 'We honor John McCain's service...BUT...', which to me is condescending and offensive - because what I hear is, 'Let's forget this man's sacrifice for his country, and his proven leadership abilities, and talk some more about change.'  

  I don't agree with John McCain on everything - but I am utterly convinced that he is qualified to be our next President, and I trust him to do what's right.  I know in my heart that he has the best interests of our country in mind.  He doesn't simply want to be President - he wants to lead  America ,  and there's a huge difference.  Factually, there is simply no comparison between the two candidates.  A man of questionable background and motives who prattles on  about change, can't hold a candle to a man who has devoted his life in public service to this nation, retiring from the Navy in1981 and elected to the Senate in1982.  

   Perhaps Obama's supporters are taking a stance between old and new. Maybe they don't care about McCain's service or his strength of character, or his unblemished qualifications to be President.  Maybe  'likeability' is a higher priority for them than 'trust'.  Being a prisoner of war is not what qualifies John McCain to be President of the United States of America    - but his demonstrated leadership certainly DOES.  

    Dear friends, it is time for us to stand.  It is time for thinking Americans to say, 'Enough.' It is time for people of all parties to stop following the party line.  It is time for anyone who wants to keep   America    first, who wants the right man leading their nation, to start a dialogue with all their friends and neighbors and ask who they're voting for, and why.  

  There's a lot of evil in this world. That should be readily apparent to all of us by now.  And when faced with that evil as we are now, I want a man who knows the cost of war on his troops and on his citizens.  I want a man who puts my family's interests before any foreign country.   
    I want a President who's qualified to lead.   

    I want my country back, and I'm voting for John McCain.
 
Signed,
Joe Porter

          E-mail:   ronald.hess@alumni.purdue.edu 

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