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Does the UAW understand Capitalism? |
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John Beagle
MUSA Official Joined: Apr 23 2007 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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Posted: Dec 04 2008 at 3:34pm |
They have been a very powerful force in automotive manufacturing in the US. The United Auto Workers have members making over $70 per hour to do low tech work. And if a member is laid off, the member get 95% of his or her salary. Members of the UAW don't live in the real world like the rest of the country. Even with this crisis, the UAW is just now talking about making minor concessions. Yet the members feel that they have already made concessions and that they are doing their part aready. UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said the union must help persuade Congress to offer the loans or risk destroying what he said is the country's economic spine. Mr. Gettlefinger, just doesn't want to face it, the UAW is the problem. Jobs that pay $70/hr could be easily replaced by jobs that pay $14 per hour. The UAW just isn't in a position to make serious cuts. Is this the begining of the end of the UAW? |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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For 36+ years of working, I've always leaned toward the labor side of the fence in the working arena. I got that mindset honestly from my Grandpa, who worked for Armco for 46 years and his stories persuaded me to be leery of management. I'm on my 41st year of working, all for non-union shops, never coming close to $70 per hour on the wage scale, including benefits. I suppose unions were well intended when they started in the 20's or 30's. Perhaps management and company ownership treated their workers poorly back then with a dangerous working environment and unfair labor laws on the books. As time went by, somehow, someway, the unions got too full of themselves and started trying to dictate to the company how it was going to be. Now, they've basically negotiated themselves right out of a job by draining the company of money for wages and benefits costs. In this case, I can't justify supporting union folks as they have become ultra greedy in their demands.Couple that with a management team that was not inventive enough to keep up with the changes in the industry and has cowered down to union demands and we have a disaster that will be painful for all to fix. Union folks have lived the good life for quite a while now. Looks like that good life is about to hit the wall of reality where wages and benefits are more in line with the skill level of the job.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Does the UAW understand Capitalism?
An equally (or perhaps even more) important question: Does CONGRESS understand capitalism???
They seem to be slowly nationalizing private enterprise!!!
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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The Unions understand one thing it is about....ME, ME, ME, ME and nothing else matters. Unions are a significant problem for Ohio, from City Unions to Private Unions. Personally I think it is time for a little Ronald Regan Air Traffic Controller type of action. $70.00+ an hour I guarantee you, you will have no problem filling those jobs for about half of that and that includes benefits. Same goes for Public Safety Unions either play ball with the City and its Citizens or Layoffs are coming.
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Bwood
MUSA Resident Joined: Oct 29 2007 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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The $70 an hour figure is deceptive. The cost of a worker for an hour to GM is $70. This is from factoring in benefits and wages from the current employees on top of retiree benefits. No one is actually paid $70 an hour.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Bwood I am well aware of that, that is why I said that includes bennies.
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Bwood
MUSA Resident Joined: Oct 29 2007 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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An average UAW employee makes around $25 an hour. Even if the big 3 replace all of the jobs at $14 an hour, they would only be saving $10 off the $70 figure because of the "legacy cost" that the retirees impose on them. Anyways, that's quite impossible with the power that UAW has, so the point is moot. The UAW wants to continue operating the way that they have always been during prosperous times, and the money just isn't there.
The government will be footing the bill whether the place gets bailed out or bankrupted. Too many people were promised too much money, and it's much harder to take something away from someone than it is to give it to them.
This guy is delusional. Honda, Toyota, and Mitsubishi will eagerly step in and fill in the gaps in the economic spine. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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BWood- it is understood that the $70 rate includes wages + bennies. The real story here is that the rate outside of the union shops is more in the $40 per hour rate for wages and bennies. That is the focus here. Need to reduce the hourly rate of the union shops while requiring union workers to assume more of their monthly premiums for medical and dental like us non-union folks were asked to do several years ago. It is long past due that union folks start operating under the same conditions as the majority of the working world must do.
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Bwood
MUSA Resident Joined: Oct 29 2007 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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That's what I am saying. Times are no longer prosperous, but with the union in the way, there is no way for GM, Chrysler, whoever, to cut the budget, and the UAW doesn't realize that they are going to milk the cow to death.
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tomahawk35
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 18 2008 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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I think that in order for the auto industry to get any kind of help, that the taxpayers demand that the top leaders of this failed industry should all be replaced. Why should they be allowed to continue to profit when they were the ones in charge of this failure. If they couldn't make this work from the start then I would assume that they will devise some underhanded way to escape with more money and perks in their pockets if they see that this money was a wasted venture. I would like to see Congress ask for their resignations in return for taxpayer's help then we would really see how much they cared about the industry. We need more concessions from the unions also. |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Bwood maybe the Big 3 need to call Toyota and Honda and see how they are doing it for about $40.00 per hour.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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A Modern Parable.
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile. The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing. Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles. Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses. The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India. Sadly, the End. Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages. TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results: TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses... |
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arwendt
MUSA Official Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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Great post Vivian. |
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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John Beagle
MUSA Official Joined: Apr 23 2007 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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That was a very interesting parable.
What I get out of this is that the Big 3 have too many chiefs and not enought indians. The few indians we have are either overworked or have figured out how to be fat and lazy from all the good pay and benefits.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Hmmmmm...Too many chiefs and not enough indians....Hmmmm...Now that I read it again it sounds a lot like Middletown City Hall.
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