Middletown top 10 fastest Dying Town in USA

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   http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/08/towns-ten-economy-forbeslife-cx_mw_1209dying_slide_2.html?thisSpeed=30000 

http://www.forbes.com/realestate/2008/12/08/towns-ten-economy-forbeslife-cx_mw_1209dying.html10. Middletown, Ohio 
Situated between Dayton and Cincinnati, Middletown has declined in step with much of Greater Ohio. The town's median household income is $37,000, and its poverty level has jumped from 12% in 2000 to 22% in 2007. And it's not likely to get better anytime soon. With only 12.2% of residents possessing bachelor's degrees or better, the city isn't a prime candidate to attract highly skilled jobs that have lifted some other post-industrial cities.

Thank you City Council, lets leave Section 8 as it is and contract out for another 3 years.  Maybe you can hit 35% poverty level by then.

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Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Middletown top 10 fastest Dying Town in USA Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 11:26am
	http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/08/towns-ten-economy-forbeslife-cx_mw_1209dying_slide_2.html?thisSpeed=30000 http://www.forbes.com/realestate/2008/12/08/towns-ten-economy-forbeslife-cx_mw_1209dying.html 10. Middletown, Ohio Situated between Dayton and Cincinnati, Middletown has declined in step with much of Greater Ohio. The town's median household income is $37,000, and its poverty level has jumped from 12% in 2000 to 22% in 2007. And it's not likely to get better anytime soon. With only 12.2% of residents possessing bachelor's degrees or better, the city isn't a prime candidate to attract highly skilled jobs that have lifted some other post-industrial cities. Thank you City Council, lets leave Section 8 as it is and contract out for another 3 years. Maybe you can hit 35% poverty level by then.

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 11:49am
	I would like to take this special occasion to join with Pacman in thanking this and past Councils on the fine work that they have accomplished. We also must include the city managers, Econ. Dev. Directors, and the other prominent people who have guided this city to this prestigious award. Keep up the good work! Now, kindly step aside and let us fix this mess. If you all feel inclined, I'll offer to pay a portion of your bus fare- one way,of course, out of town.

Middletown News Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Apr 29 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1100	Post Options Post Reply Quote Middletown News Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 11:57am
	Problem is council is not convinced. Otherwise they would reduce staff with the reduction of revenues.
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arwendt Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List MUSA Official Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588	Post Options Post Reply Quote arwendt Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 12:20pm
	Thanks for the great news. Wonder if that comes with any sort of official reward or plaque from Forbes that council could display proudly in their chamber?
	“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 12:33pm
	At least Section 8 Landlords Get an Xmas Present while the Citizens get a Lump of Coal.

arwendt Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List MUSA Official Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588	Post Options Post Reply Quote arwendt Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 12:54pm
	I often wonder what it means that the majority of Monroe citizens are ready to grab a torch and "march on our castle" with the intent to burn it to the ground over the issue of the potential increased pollution from the new Sun Coke plant, a plant that is necessary to keep what few jobs we have left in the area, while the citizens of Middletown are content to sit quietly on their hands while we continue working on our apparent goal to become the Section 8 Capitol of Ohio.
	“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 1:04pm
	Jonahtan states, "Problem is council is not convinced. Otherwise they would reduce staff with the reduction of revenues." Jonathan this is not rocket science. 4 of the 7 members of Council are Business people. If you have an excessive amount of Section 8 in a City the size of Middletown, Middletown 1662 Vouchers Population 51k, Butler County about 800 Population 350k, and you want Section 8 housing where are you moving to. Are you going to Butler County where you have 1 voucher for every 438 Residents or Middletown where you have 1 voucher for every 31 Residents. This is not a hard decision to make or concept to understand and unfortunately City Council just doesn't get it or doesn't give a rats..............

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 1:16pm
	The current Contract that is about to be issued by Council needs to be put on hold and a discussion on the *MERITS OF SECTION 8 NEEDS TO BE HELD*, before any new 3 year contract is signed. And I don't mean some backroom discussion either. But unfortunately for the City's residents it won't be delayed and that conversation will never happen. From the Cities own website, this is not good folks: "Subsidized Housing total units are 3,269. The tax credit housing vouchers pay the difference in the market rate to make the units affordable. The five year span of 2000 to 2004, there was a very rapid increase in Section 8 units, from 767 in 2000 to 1554 in 2004. Middletown has 15% of Butler County’s population; 23% of the County’s residents in poverty; 38% of the County’s subsidized housing units (that percentage does not include Section 8 housing units); 56% of the County’s Section 8 voucher holders; and 40% of the County’s Housing for the mentally ill. Section 8 conclusions indicate the number of units should be capped; increase quality standards; increase frequency of inspections; and use as a tool for neighborhood investment. Overall, about 35% of Middletown’s occupied rental housing is designated for low income."

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 2:21pm
	Can't wait to hear the spin from the City, TV Middletown, etc. on this story, that is unless they totally ignore it......which is what will probably happen.

John Beagle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List MUSA Official Joined: Apr 23 2007 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1855	Post Options Post Reply Quote John Beagle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 4:53pm
	The City Manager Responds: Please see the link below for Forbes Magazine. The article referenced is American’s Fastest Dying Towns, we are listed as #10. The Journal is doing an article on this tomorrow. http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/12/08/towns-ten-economy-forbeslife-cx_mw_1209dying.html?partner=lingospot Here is my response: The article is totally off-base. We have a Fortune 500 company in town that employs 2500 workers, a new hospital, development along our interstate frontage, a downtown that has redevelopment activity, new schools and an increase in school enrollment. Yes, we have seen challenges as a community over the years, but we are well-positioned on a major interstate corridor between Dayton and Cincinnati and have plans in place to address our challenges that we face as a community. Regarding the census indicating a drastic increase in poverty rate, yes, we know that we are losing our balance as a community, like many communities who are dependent upon the industrial economy. We have a number of redevelopment efforts on-going, along with economic development programs in place. Conversations in 2009 will focus on programs that maintain a socio-economic balance. Without placing a value judgment on whether or not we have a disproportionate number of low or moderate income families, the important point is that when a community loses it socio-economic balance, it becomes more difficult to pay for services for all residents. This is why we continue to have conversations and put plans in place to maintain our balance as a community. Middletown has a bright future and we are looking forward to the future. Please let me know if you have any questions, thanks, Judy Judith A. Gilleland City Manager City of Middletown One Donham Plaza Middletown, Ohio 45042 (513) 425-7836
	John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio.

arwendt Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List MUSA Official Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588	Post Options Post Reply Quote arwendt Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 6:28pm
	Sounds good. Any details on how the city can regain its balance?
	“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.

spiderjohn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749	Post Options Post Reply Quote spiderjohn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 6:44pm
	Pretty good kick in the teeth. Actually, I don't feel any more dead than I did yesterday. Although it ticks me off that I can't buy the new Bela Fleck Christmas cd anywhere closer than Dayton Mall. Had a good sandwich at 56 degrees tonight The Meadows,Stefanos,Red Onion and Java Johnnies are still good. Middies are 2-0 so far, but must travel to Colerain(and they owe us big time). Our city isn't bankrupt yet like many others not on the list Sadly there is truth to both sides of the issue Gotta love our city manager I have faith in her

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 5:21am
	Sorry guys but this is nothing more than a puff piece which is the standard denial of a story such as this, when it hits the press. While I agree with Ms.Gillelands attempts to rectify the Section 8 issue, she was overruled by Council, I don't agree with this statement she put out. Just dealing with the Poverty issue which in my view is the most damning for any business development in Middletown, I fail to understand The Cities and Council's continued actions or lack there of which do not make any effort to improving the situation. Ms. Gilleland states, "Regarding the census indicating a drastic increase in poverty rate, yes, we know that we are losing our balance as a community, like many communities who are dependent upon the industrial economy." If this was a known fact back in the fall when Council voted to maintain Section 8 as is, and went against the recommendations of the City Manager and the hired Consultant to move the Section 8 program to Butler County, what was Council thinking? This issue of being a "dying City" will become a major nail in Middletown's coffin as is evident in todays Middletown Journal, with this quote from a Councilman in Monroe: "Councilman Bob Kelley recommended the city not renew its membership because he said he did not believe the city's needs are being met. Also, he said Monroe is a growing city that doesn't need to be affiliated with Middletown, which he pointed out was just named among the top dying cities in America." Then we have this from Ms. Gilleland: "Without placing a value judgment on whether or not we have a disproportionate number of low or moderate income families, the important point is that when a community loses it socio-economic balance, it becomes more difficult to pay for services for all residents. This is why we continue to have conversations and put plans in place to maintain our balance as a community." What conversations, what plans, the current plan is continuation of Section 8 in its current form. From the Middletown Journal today: "One item that is being worked on but should continue to be addressed is the over-abundance of low-income housing in Middletown, said Fred DeBiasi, president of American Savings Bank and chairman of the Middletown Chamber of Commerce." Worked on how, City Council has voted to maintain the status quo for low income housing. "Historically, we've been far too eager to open our arms and take more then our fair share of low-income housing," he said. "Considering we are not the county seat of Butler County, we have a disproportionate amount of low-income housing given our population." "But Gilleland said, without judging if there is a disproportionate amount of low-income families, when the socio-economic balance is lost it is difficult to pay for services for all residents." The issue of low-income families or Section 8 Housing or Public Housing is not a Value judgment, but an ECONOMIC one, for Middletown. We are approaching a poverty level of 25% of the community, that is approximately 13000 residents in Middletown. A City in Middletown's financial condition can not support nor survive with these conditions. Would any of you move a Major business to Middletown after reading this article in Forbes? Would you as a Mall Developer move forward with a $26,000,000.00 re-development of Towne Mall with a City that has a Poverty level this high? Would any of you invest a substantial amount of Money in a City with a City Council that is making no effort to rectify the Poverty level by even doing the basics, such as limiting or moving the Section 8 program to Butler County? I believe this Thursday the Citizens Housing Committee, a group which claims they have been unable to get adequate information from the City on section 8 housing, and City employees, a group who has gotten us into the Section 8 mess we are in, will be interviewing companies to take over The Section 8 program for the next 3 years. This is 3 years that Middletown can not afford to keep the Section 8 program as it currently is. The vouchers need to be drastically reduced or the program needs to be move to Butler and Warren Counties. The discussion on Section 8 needs to be held before a new contract is awarded. The current contract should be extended another 3 months if possible and serious discussions and a solution to reducing the poverty level in Middletown needs to be found, before any new contract and another 3 years of nothing being done goes by. This is from Middletown's website April, 2007 we are now approaching two years later and what has been done or changed, NOTHING: "Subsidized Housing total units are 3,269. The tax credit housing vouchers pay the difference in the market rate to make the units affordable. The five year span of 2000 to 2004, there was a very rapid increase in Section 8 units, from 767 in 2000 to 1554 in 2004. Middletown has 15% of Butler County’s population; 23% of the County’s residents in poverty; 38% of the County’s subsidized housing units (that percentage does not include Section 8 housing units); 56% of the County’s Section 8 voucher holders; and 40% of the County’s Housing for the mentally ill. Section 8 conclusions indicate the number of units should be capped; increase quality standards; increase frequency of inspections; and use as a tool for neighborhood investment. Overall, about 35% of Middletown’s occupied rental housing is designated for low income."

Vivian Moon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187	Post Options Post Reply Quote Vivian Moon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 6:35am
	Many people purchased older properties at an inflated price with no money down here in Middletown with the intent of renting to Secton 8 families. These landlords have lost their jobs or other problems and have now walked away from the properties and filed bankrupcy. Many of these Sections 8 properties are sitting empty all over Middletown. Then people steal the storms doors, kick in the back doors and strip all the copper out of the house to sell. Now the houses have really lost vaule and can't be sold at public auction.. These houses will be sitting empty for years to come. If you think it's looks bad now just wait a few years.

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 6:44am
	I talked to a Section 8 Landlord the other day and he was jumping for join at the money he was making off of his properties. Middletown has 1662 Vouchers, everyone in use that I can find and a waiting list to get one. Now some of those people may have moved out of the City with their Voucher as once you have one it stays with you until you no longer qualify or you screw up, but inorder to get a Middltown Voucher you must first live in Middletown is my understanding. I personally believe this is where much of the low income is coming from as you are more likely to get a Voucher in Middletown than in Butler County.

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 6:50am
	Once upon a time, I had real hope that a new City Manager from Pickerington, would arrive on the scene and start directing this town toward progressive action. Now, after more than a year in the position, I fear that Ms. Gilleland has been infected by the Council flu incurring the symptoms of illogical thinking, irrational behavior, inability to identify problems, make competent decisions, and arrive at viable solutions and the ability to ignore serious problems while asssuming the attitude that "all is well on the Western Front" Ms. Gilleland's response is a classic example of talking AROUND the many problems, while using a barrage of generalized, glossed over comments that include no specific fixatives whatsoever. This is the same kind of communication that we get from other city leaders and Council. No action- just passification talk of "plans being formulated" crap resulting in absolutely no plans ever being implemented. She's had her chance and has decided to cide with Council in her actions/talk.Haven't you all had enough of this? Time for Council AND the City Manager to go. All of them.

Vivian Moon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187	Post Options Post Reply Quote Vivian Moon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 7:38am
	Viet, only two ways to solve the current problems of Middletown.. 1. Leadership from the top 2. Power of the people from the bottom sorry to say at this time we have neither

spiderjohn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749	Post Options Post Reply Quote spiderjohn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 9:06am
	VET--in premise I agree with a lot of what you are saying, and on the OUTSIDE, our new city manager is saying all of the positive things that go with the job. Remember--she works for Council, has little tenure, and is still very new in town. I like her very much, and feel comfortable discussing anything with her. She has open ears and an open mind. She is still learning the area and how things have worked throughout the town and in the city building. She is not a member of your "club" or immersed in old-school retro thinking. It has taken close to 40 years to get to where we are currently, and it will take quite a while(and more than one person), to stop the ball rolling, and get it moving in a different direction. I wish you would meet the lady, open positive dialogue(not talking about the 50s and 60s or blasting her with your view of the issues immediately), and volunteer your services where she fells you might be best placed. If you try this, you might change your thinking somewhat.

MadisonMom Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Dec 09 2008 Location: MadisonTownship Status: Offline Points: 298	Post Options Post Reply Quote MadisonMom Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 9:14am
	"""""It has taken close to 40 years to get to where we are currently, and it will take quite a while(and more than one person), to stop the ball rolling, and get it moving in a different direction."""" ..Very well said spiderjon....... To those of you that are so unhappy with the current city council. Are you planning on taking their places? Do you have your campaign strategy worked out for the next election?

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 12:31pm
	Spider- I have met Ms. Gilleland- seems somewhat on the shy side to me.( pretty much non-existent in the Street Repair Committee meetings) Also seems a bit docile and hardly appears capable of presenting an argument against city council whether she feared for her job or not. She just doesn't appear to have the personality to strongly object or stand her ground and that is what I believe this city needs- shock treatment in the form of ideas and manner of presentation. You know, kind of like George Patton would do in this situation- tell it like it is and spare people the "kinder/ gentler" crap. She may not be a member of the club at this time but- give it time- she will need to be to survive in her job capacity. You know- just go along with the prevailing wind and not make waves. As to your "old school retro thinking"- I strongly believe in what works in any situation. It just so happens that I am not in agreement with the "new wave" thinking of today. It doesn't work as evidenced by the condition of the city in all aspects. Sometimes, adopting some of the "old ways" is a smart idea. Why are "old ways" taboo? As to volunteering my services where SHE feels I might be best placed? You've got to be kidding, right? Are you suggesting that I give my time to be used by an ungrateful group of egocentric people, helping them maintain what I have strongly criticized for many years? These people have demonstrated time and time again that you are welcomed as long as you agree with their philosophy. If you have differing opinions, they don't want you to participate. You know that. "Blasting her with my view of the issues"- I believe we have all done a little "blasting" at one time or another both here and with the city officials. Aren't we all "guilty" of that, Spider? Talk of the 50's/60's- a little history on when this town was last successful never hurt anyone.Maybe she should know how it was- doesn't hurt anything, does it?

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 12:47pm
	Madison Mom- How can you NOT be "unhappy with the current city council"? Everything they do (which isn't much), everything they touch is a disaster. How would you grade their performance to date? Please tell me that you're not one of those "denial" people who see the big picture and still think that it's "not that bad". They are literally driving this town into a welfare situation as evidenced by the top ten dying cities info. Isn't that proof enough that this and previous councils have been inept at best? I would love to be a part of "taking their place" (and if so, be prepared for a major shock on attitude, approach and decision making on my part). Problem is, I have a full time job and can't leave the job everytime the wind blows like they do as business people. Campaign strategy?- List all that is wrong- provide solutions- communicate that info to the voting public. Concentrate on job development- new jobs= new opportunities for the people= money in people's pockets= people spending/ money flowing= house/car buying/patronizing stores=taxes collected/revenue for the city=city prospering/growing/being progressive and playing "catchup" with the rest of the surrounding communities. Eliminate Section 8 and all welfare programs that are driving the city down in income and image.

Middletown News Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Apr 29 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1100	Post Options Post Reply Quote Middletown News Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 1:34pm
	VietVet That's a bit too much of a dressing down regarding our city manager. "seems a bit docile and hardly appears capable of presenting an argument against city council whether she feared for her job or not" I don't believe you understand just how Judy operates. Never in front of cameras like Laura Williams. The city manager needs to build a consensus, you don't win people over to your ideas until the people know you understand their ideas first. You bet things are changing thanks to Ms. Gilleland. Just hang in their and give her a chance before you go assuming this and assuming that.
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spiderjohn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749	Post Options Post Reply Quote spiderjohn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 1:51pm
	Vet says: "As to volunteering my services where SHE feels I might be best placed? You've got to be kidding, right? Are you suggesting that I give my time to be used by an ungrateful group of egocentric people, helping them maintain what I have strongly criticized for many years? " Uh--yes Old ways-New ways All that matters is that we do things the CORRECT way Doesn't matter the names connected to doing so Seems like we know different Judy Gs Maybe she hasn't warmed to your positive,constructive futuristic personality side just yet. Vet--my online friend, you obviously care tremendously about the community you have called "home" for so many years. You obviously want to be a part of the eventual re-surgence,. You are educated,talented and outspoken. Might as well work your way into it all for the benefit of everyone Do I complain and get negative? Duh Boss Man here calls me out frequently, and I will probably be the first here to be banished. Que sera sera As Del MCoury or Richard Thompson sing: "If you don't want me, I'll dry my tears and move on". And believe me--you get Spider Lite here. SPIDERJOHN only exists in cyberspace He is really EVERYMAN who has tired of living by the book while being abused and taken for granted by his so-called "leaders" He respects everyone and fears no one Full of bs, aren't I?

John Beagle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List MUSA Official Joined: Apr 23 2007 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1855	Post Options Post Reply Quote John Beagle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 2:01pm
	Spider Lite - I like that.
	John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio.

VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 10 2008 at 3:21pm
	Too harsh,you say?? No Jonathan, this is a dressing down on Ms. Gilleland- she is void of any substance as of this date. She seems too weak and incapable of a "take charge" mentality. She demonstrates all of the attributes of a turtle in it's shell. I would imagine that if approached in a hostile manner, she would cower down and perhaps lose it crying. If she approaches Council like she handled herself on the Streets Committee, she epitomized weakness. NOW-- I DON'T MEAN any of those remarks about Ms. Gilleland, but my opinion of her could have been much worse. I've only talked to her once and only briefly, so to form a final opinion of her, I would need more time to assess where she is coming from. Jonathan, the sentences that you are calling too harsh are not even close to what I've said to people in the past. Sometimes "tenderness with regard to feelings" doesn't work.Sometimes people only understand brutal language.