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The Middletown I75 Cloverleaf Project

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arwendt View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jan 02 2009 at 12:25pm
A few days back I ran into a well connected Middletown resident who mentioned some big changes in store for the East end here. On his list was the possible widening of Roosevelt out by I75 and a few other things that just sounded amazing.
 
Then this morning one of the guys mentioned that the big talk over New Years Eve was the I75 cloverleaf project and closing of a few businesses in that area to make it happen.
 
However I am unable to Google anything on the new cloverleaf and wondered if any of our well connected readers had any news on that topic?
 
Thanks in advance,
andy
 
“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2009 at 1:19pm
We all know that the BP station at I-75 and 122 has been closed for a long time now. I noticed that the Duke gas station is boarded up across from it on the corner of 122 and Commerce Drive. Cloverleaf property or are these stores closing for the redevelopment of the new hospital area? Also noticed that Score had vacated the old miniature golf business that Lenny Robinson use to own across from Duke. Score has cleared out all of their used cars there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadisonMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2009 at 1:32pm
Is the Cloverleaf, new exits & ramps?
I believe what you see, is getting ready for all of the above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2009 at 2:41pm
I did hear quite a bit about this during the planning stage.
 
According to my source (one of the involved property owner's agent) the "plan" has a hidden agenda:  to eleminate businesses near the interchange.  I was outraged, not only due to Middletown's "business HOSTILITY", but also because a "diamond interchange" would be much cheaper and would serve our needs quite well. 
 
(A "diamond interchange" is what would result from making the ramps on the EAST side of I-75 similar to those on the WEST side.  That is, northbound I-75 traffic exiting at Middletown would exit about where the exit begins right now, but insted of making the "suicide merge" and loop, would use a ramp that essentially connect straight down to the traffic signal where the entry and exit ramps exist right now.  Traffic entering northbound I-75 would turn north at that same signal, and go up right where the bottom of the exit loop is now, but this loop would be eliminated and the entry ramp tangentially (or nearly so) connected to the existing entry acceleration lane.)
 
Anyway, Middletown city hall (read that as Marty Kohler) wanted a design that would force closure of both Duke and BP gas stations, eliminate access for the Ramada and close off access from 122 to Commerce Drive!!!  The last that I heard, they were going to force the Ramada to obtain access (both entry and exit) from Union Road.  Union Road, via Market Street, would also be the only entry/exit from Commerce Drive.  This would help the "appearance of our gateway"!!!  LOLLOL  Unfortunately, it has also driven the closure of at least three businesses in our "Business Friendly" town.  It also leaves us with NO gas stations within sight of the interchange (When you are low on gas on an interstate in a strange area, how often do YOU stop when you cannot SEE a gas station from the exit???)  The nearest gas when exiting from the northbound lanes will be OVER a quarter mile, THEN turn right, THEN another quarter mile!  Then, if you need a restroom break and a Big Mac, you must drive another MILE back to the other side of 75, then another half mile back to the northbound entrance ramp!!!  I guess we're not too "traveller friendly" either.
 
Anyway, the plan is to make everyone plant trees so that there will be NO SIGNS of any enterprise until after one is well away from the interstate, and then only if one looks closely.
 
Actually, the best plan (and the most cost efficient for TAXPAYERS) would be an interchange similar to the one at northbound I-75 at State route 73 just a few miles north of here at Franklin/Springboro.  The thing is nearly complete as it now exists.
 
Of course, that would've allowed two gas stations and the Putt-Putt to stay in business, and we can't have that, can we??? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2009 at 7:30pm
http://www.ci.middletown.oh.us/docs/ed/ee_chap5.pdf
 
Putt Putt is now a fishing hole.  This may have changed but the best I could find.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 03 2009 at 5:51am
Originally posted by Pacman Pacman wrote:

http://www.ci.middletown.oh.us/docs/ed/ee_chap5.pdf  
Putt Putt is now a fishing hole.  This may have changed but the best I could find.
 
LOLLOL When our fearless leaders adopted this as their "preferred" plan, I vomited all over my keyboard.  Of course, like "Lake Mistake" they did not bother to check with any of the regulatory agencies that have the final "say-so" about such things, so this plan has about as much chance of reaching fruition as Rush Limbaugh has of being elected president of the Barack Obama Fan Club!
 
Let me search my memory banks, and try to recall some of the most "typical Middletown City Hall-like" reasons why this just "ain't gonna happen."  Now remember, I'm old and confused, and this happened a few years back--and I got so aggravated I had to go on a three-day bender--so I may not get this just exactly correct, but I'll try my best:
 
First, if one pulls up the Google (or any other) ariel photos of the area around 122/Commerce Drive/market Street/Union Road in a separate window next to the cartoon you linked, you will see that a good deal of "artistic license" was used regarding the ACTUAL layout of the existing streets, and therefor their rights-of-way.  Of course this could just be a ploy to rid us of four or five "tacky" but thriving motels that are beneath the standards of the local aristocrats.  Not to worry, though, as I'm certain that they have both Ritz-Carlton and Four Seasons waiting  to rush in and fill the void.  Perhaps rerouting these streets would also eliminate the Waffle House and McDonalds, leaving room for a snooty Tea-N-Crumpets-R-Us.
 
Next, while I would love to see another "water feature" (just think of the millions of tourists that have flocked to our fair city for the sole purpose of standing in awe of our downtown "water feature"...perhaps we could commission the same artist for this job) the area designated for the "water feature" already contains a "water feature"!!  It's just that the State of Ohio refers to it as a "STORM WATER RETENTION AREA" for runoff from I-75.  Did anyone check with the state or the FEDs???  After all, it DOES seem to be in the right-of-way of an interstate highway!  Of course, since this plan calls for future I-75 interchanges at BOTH Greentree Road and Manchester Road, perhaps the State will look the other way while mighty Middletown mucks up drainage at this one.
 
What REALLY caught my eye was what appears to be the extension of Central Avenue across the Interstate under this plan.  Didn't our business-friendly leaders' keen eyes for detail notice that this layout extends Central Avenue eastward right through the parking lots of two currently thriving businesses??  I doubt that either Carol's Speakeasy or the H-J tax service could make it on "walk-up" traffic!!! 
 
What happens to the alignment of this eastward extension of Central Avenue next (right after it puts two businesses OUT of of business and AFTER it GOES THROUGH Laura William's daughter's front yard) is puzzling.  The same nature-loving planners who INSIST upon a veritable impenitrable wall of "signifigant species of trees" hiding every manmade structure to be built from the eyes of travelers and natives alike, decide to curve this extension of Central mysteriously to the left right through one of the most heavily wooded and pristine (yet commercially worthless, as it stands) woodland and wildlife areas left inside of our City limits!!!  And don't ya know that they seem to have chosen as the centerline of the extension THE NORTH BRANCH OF DICKS CREEK all the way to the east side of I-75!!!  Can anyone say "WETLANDS"???  Can anyone say "find me the most expensive construction route to I-75???  Can anyone say "soils study"???  Can anyone say "Indiana Brown bat"???  Why would anyone choose THAT route???
 
If memory serves, this plan was adopted back when Ms. Williams was on city council...AND Mr. Williams was on either Planning commission or Zoning board, wasn't it??  Of course, I'm sure that was just a coincidence.
 
I could go on, but I'm feeling nuaseous.  Dead 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 03 2009 at 8:45am
Mike you may be right about the Hotels.
 

"Hospitality Market

Currently there is a lack of Hospitality product type with larger conference space in the Trade Area. The accessibility to I-75 creates an opportunity for Hospitality development. Standard or luxury type Hospitality of approximately 100 rooms with 30,000 SF to 40,000 SF of conference space is recommended."

It is my understanding that the Ramada was talking to Atrium sometime ago about handling their Conference needs.  In return the Ramada would do a major Update or even complete re-build.  But then the alignment of the I75 Off Ramp thru the property put a stop to that, at least that is the rumor I heard.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 03 2009 at 8:52am
If you read this .pdf and then look at the rest of Middletown it makes you wonder how Middletown can't even clean up its City yet it has put this many restrictions on building on such a small area in the East End.
 
 
If you want to read the whole plan go here:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 03 2009 at 9:29am
[QUOTE=Pacman]If you read this .pdf and then look at the rest of Middletown it makes you wonder how Middletown can't even clean up its City yet it has put this many restrictions on building on such a small area in the East End.
 
 [/QUOTE]
 
The following is copied and pasted from the bottom of Chapter 6, page 2, of the above referenced document!  Kind of shows the caliber of "retention" that our folks at city hall have, if they put this in the design guidelines, and then decided to route the eastward eztension of Central Avenue smack dab down the middle of the NORTH BRANCH of DICKS CREEK:
 
"Preserve Riparian Corridors

The East End/Renaissance area has several quality riparian corridors that traverse the landscape. These corridors have mature, high quality vegetation, streams and creeks and have dramatic changes in elevation. The riparian corridors serve as the natural drainage system for the region. These corridors are a wonderful asset to the project area. Future development will take advantage of them, locating office buildings, restaurants and other appropriate uses to take advantage of corridor views.

The riparian corridors are regulated by the Army Corps of Engineers and the Ohio EPA. Any disruption of these corridors will require the standard permitting process associated with development activity that affects a regulated stream or creek."

Of course, what do I know, other than having had to deal with the Corps and several state (and the federal) EPAs on more projects than I can even recall at my advanced age.
 
It also is confusing exactly WHY they chose to OBLITERATE the North Branch of a "corridor having mature, high quality vegetation, streams and creeks and having dramatic changes in elevation...a riparian corridor serving as the natural drainage system for a region...a wonderful asset to the project area."  They even state that "Future development will take advantage of them, locating office buildings, restaurants and other appropriate uses to take advantage of corridor views"!!! 
 
WHY would they propose such a thing???
Perhaps someone should pop over to the County Recorder's web site and see who owns the land along that route???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 03 2009 at 10:07am
Originally posted by Pacman Pacman wrote:

If you read this .pdf and then look at the rest of Middletown it makes you wonder how Middletown can't even clean up its City yet it has put this many restrictions on building on such a small area in the East End.
 
 
If you want to read the whole plan go here:
 
 
Study these two documents and one can see exactly WHY Middletown is in the shape it is in!!!  Middletown's version of "business friendly" is to tell each and every potential business exactly what, how, where, and when they can do what MIDDLETOWN wants them to do, instead of helping them to easily do what THEY want to do.
 
Existing successful businesses of size already HAVE business plans and standards, based on the successes they have attained elsewhere--often at great cost in sweat and capital.  However, when they come to Middletown, city hall insists "we don't care how you do it everywhere else.  Here, you do it OUR way, or move on up or down the highway!!"
 
Also, we make everything as EXPENSIVE as possible for the new businesses, by mandating balconies (to enjoy the natural beauty), expensive landscaping (to HIDE the business from potential patrons), expensive but unecessary architectural details  (only OUR aristocrats know what good taste is).  Frankly, I can't see why any business person in their right mind would WANT to locate here under such conditions!!!  Middletown city hall does everything in their power to increase costs and insure FAILURE for any new business!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 03 2009 at 10:13am
Hey Mike can we say we are not creating a Middletown East End, but in reality Koehler World.LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2009 at 10:10am
Oh boy- the Army Corps Of Engineers, ehh. As soon as you mentioned that I thought of the dealings the city had with the Engineers years ago with Lake Middletown. Somehow, some way, someone ok'd the dike to be removed without permission from the ACof E resulting in silt being allowed to flow into the Great Miami and a $350,000 fine for the city. Strange- we never found out who that "someone" was from the city. Perhaps we could see history repeating itself with this project. Wonder who the guilty party from the city will be this time???                 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arwendt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2009 at 10:55am

Thanks for all the info !

Having just scanned thorough this really quick here is what I see:
 
Mike Presta - "the plan is to make everyone plant trees so that there will be NO SIGNS of any enterprise " Very Funny !
 
Pac Man - Thanks for the link to the PDF http://www.ci.middletown.oh.us/docs/ed/ee_chap5.pdf
And Ohhhh a Water Feature !  Nice. BUT IT'S NOT A CLOVERLEAF .. WHAT THE HECK ?
 
VieVet - It was Sam A. The BP owner who first told me of the plan I would say over a year ago. Which really makes me wonder if this could be done any slower.
 
Madison Mom & VieVet - If only someday the dive to the east side of I75 could be as enjoyable as crossing the West Middletown Bridge at 5:00 on a workday, with a train on the tracks, and the gate going up and down for no reason, I think then we could call the project a success.
“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2009 at 11:23am
great thread!
 
thanks to Mike and pacman for the research.
none of this ever made sense from the beginning, and no one has been happy with it.
Why was BP closed so long before any planned construction activity?
A huge cloverleaf now, without any service stations?
Elimination of a moderately successful business strip way b4 necessary.
All to support the whim of the Atrium?
McNeil and Koehler scheming together should scare everyone.
 
Wow--another water park?
Maybe add that to all of those planned bus tours to Beau Verre and downtown to enjoy the retro amemities.
 
With the current Town Mall eyesore going nowhere and beyond, the East End is beginning to resemble a bigger mess than the rest of the city.
 
Maybe Planning needs to make an overall presentation of their vision sometime soon!
 
Oh yeah--just where is Economic Development and our new staff person?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2009 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

With the current Town Mall eyesore going nowhere and beyond, the East End is beginning to resemble a bigger mess than the rest of the city.
 
 
If one keeps doing the same things over and over, one keeps obtaining the same RESULTS over and over.
 
Downtown they keep trying to turn the clock back to the late 1800s.
 
Wasn't the Renaissance the period during the 14th thru 17th centuries ± ???  Perhaps the "water feature" will be a MOAT with a DRAWBRIDGE that the local aristocracy can ride their velocipedes across after their olde tyme baseball games.  Disapprove
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2009 at 3:09pm
The rest of the mall will probably close leaving only the 2 major anchors standing Elder Beerman and Sears.  Although I heard rumors a while ago that Elder was leaving soon also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2009 at 8:17pm

We are now officifully at the bottom of the barrel. I sometimes stop at Waffle House on Sundays on my way to work for breakfast. I was informed today that they will be closed for good starting on Tuesday. I asked if they were going to rebuild and was told no. I guess we are in such bad shape that even Waffle House is done with Middletown!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadisonMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2009 at 10:38pm
Okay, so that just makes me want to go to Waffle House for lunch tomorrow. Just like 56 degrees is not serving lunch now Mon-Fri. We went to get lunch friday and now they don't open until 4p.m.

Did they get bought by who ever is taking this project on? Or are they just closing? What gives? They can't say they don't have the business, because they do.

Pretty soon, no one will even bother to take the 122 Northbound exit to Middletown. With 73 & 123 up the road, they have lots more options.
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